How long before Hal changes and allows shorts in the dining room ?

[earl_m]

One of the few times in year I have a chance to wear a suit is

at funerals and weddings and formal night on a cruise, I look forward to formal night to get all dress up with the better half.

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

 

SWMBO = She who must be obeyed (John Mortimer, "Rumpole" books).

 

Bon Voyage & Good Health!

Bob:)

[babyher]

Ahoy!

 

SWMBO = She who must be obeyed (John Mortimer, "Rumpole" books).

 

Bon Voyage & Good Health!

Bob:)

 

 

I used to love that show :)

[Momee]

On 3/19/08 Noordam I and my three teens obeyed the dress code for smart casual almost every night. We watched people walk into the dining room with bathing suit tops, flip flops, shorts, looking a total mess. I was annoyed and went to the head staff and asked them if the dress code was more lax with so many kids on board. He said it was not. The next night my teens went in with shorts and a nice shirt and nice sandles, but they were in shorts. I saw an older woman shake her head. The next night they did not do it again. My point is although they say no shorts, denim, or flip flops they are worn!!!!!!!!! So do not go crazy bringing many good clothes because casual is worn.

[dakrewser]

On 3/19/08 Noordam I and my three teens obeyed the dress code for smart casual almost every night. We watched people walk into the dining room with bathing suit tops, flip flops, shorts, looking a total mess. I was annoyed and went to the head staff and asked them if the dress code was more lax with so many kids on board. He said it was not. The next night my teens went in with shorts and a nice shirt and nice sandles, but they were in shorts. I saw an older woman shake her head. The next night they did not do it again. My point is although they say no shorts, denim, or flip flops they are worn!!!!!!!!! So do not go crazy bringing many good clothes because casual is worn.

 

In polite society, people are expected to do what is requested without an armed guard being present to "enforce" policy. If they don't, rarely will they be punished except, of course, by losing any respect that others might have for them.

[kryos]

My point is although they say no shorts, denim, or flip flops they are worn!!!!!!!!! So do not go crazy bringing many good clothes because casual is worn.

Then I think Carnival is smart in just allowing shorts. What's the point of having a dress code if it's not going to be enforced? If HAL is going to say no to shorts, and then turn their heads when people wear them to dinner, they just make themselves look stupid. Just go ahead and welcome shorts as a part of the dress code and be done with it. Then if others in the dining room have a problem with it and "cluck their tongues" when you or your kids come in wearing shorts, then you can just tell them where to go.

 

It's dumb having a rule and then not enforcing it. Just drop the dumb rule then.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[cruisecrasy]

Yes things used to be really different.

 

In the past

 

Everybody got dressed up to fly on an airplanes, and the flight attendants were gorgeous. There was even a time where you actually got a meal on a plane instead of peanuts.

 

Everyone used to dress up at Wimbledon and the women all wore hats.

 

Going to get gas meant an attendant would wash your windshield, check your tires and oi,l and fill your tank.

 

People used to go on a job interviews and actually NOT go in sweat pants.

 

There are those who claim "One Has To Realize Things Change

 

The problem is these are the people who are wearing sweatpants to a job interview.

 

'One HAS To Realize Things Change' - Just an excuse to bend or break the rules to accomodate themselves.. It doesn't always HAVE to do anything if enough folks get off their collective 'duffs' & say 'NO' and therein likely lies the bulk of the problem...

 

Have happy cruisin'!

[cruisecrasy]

In polite society, people are expected to do what is requested without an armed guard being present to "enforce" policy. If they don't, rarely will they be punished except, of course, by losing any respect that others might have for them.

 

Shame isn't it...so many folks have to be forced ....rather than doing things

because it is the correct, considerate thing to do...

Guess they weren't taught to be 'polite'........

 

Have happy cruisin'!

[donaldsc]

 

People used to go on a job interviews and actually NOT go in sweat pants.

 

There are those who claim "One Has To Realize Things Change"

 

The problem is these are the people who are wearing sweatpants to a job interview.

 

And they get hired in spite of the fact that they dress like slobs, write as if they never took a course in English, cannot spell, have no ability to punctuate a sentence and speak as if they got off the boat yesterday. In fact, many of the people who got off the boat today speak better than they do.

 

I wish that I could have a short term job as a teacher. The reason that I say short term is that I would be fired after 1 week on the job. I would grade not only on the subject but on their ability to write using good English and correct punctuation and their ability to carry on a literate conversation without using slang every 3d word. It would be a fun week however.

 

DON

[world~citizen]

world~citizen, after much reflection I find myself in total agreement with you on this. It serves no purpose, other than harm to my blood pressure, to become all bent out of shape over this. For several years I have lamented to decline in dressing standards and the disrespect that so many are showing for the Line, their fellow passengers, and for the traditions of cruising. While I may mourn the loss of the tradition and the joy of cruising in general, it serves no purpose to try and "crusade" for it, as if there is really anything that the likes of us can do about it. It's not worth the ulcers, nor the unhappiness, and I'll not engage in any of that anymore. Some people thrive on the fight, others thrive on making traditionalists uncomfortable, or unhappy, or both. For myself, I've grown weary of the whole gymkhana; it's not worth the upset, the depression, or the frustration ... nor is it worth having my nose rubbed in my disappointment by those few mean-spirited people who hate my guts. I refuse to give them the satisfaction of making me miserable.

 

If the day ever comes when I am made to feel uncomfortable dressing up for dinner on a cruise, that cruise will be my last. There will be other ways to spend my money other than forking it over to HAL or Cunard or some other Line. I know what I want in a cruise, and when I can't get it I won't be gritting my teeth and shaking my fist. I'll go do something else and keep on enjoying life (much to the consternation of SWMNBN). If HAL, or any other Line, wants my business -- and the business of people like me -- they can cater to me and provide the kind of cruise experience I desire. Otherwise ... bye bye.

 

Your bombastic post is cogent and expresses my point of view better than I could have.

 

For your information, I corresponded with HAL about this and I think I got a form letter back - you be the judge. I quote the first sentence:

 

"Thank you for your correspondence with Holland America Line regarding your upcoming cruise onboard the XXXdam, XXX XX, 200X."

 

They didn't even fill in the name of the ship or sailing date!

 

Well, I'm sure everyone is pretty busy over there. The form letter they chose to send marginally addressed my query - as it seems to have been prepared to respond to a broad range of questions/concerns rather than to my specific communication.

 

The bottom line...HAL really does not want to hear anything about this. AYW dining and all that implies is a matter of public relations now, the policy is decided.

 

It still remains my hope to salvage the concept of an alternate restaurant for sophisticated adult dining. The point here is to preserve a venue somewhere on the ship (even at additional cost) where you can look into your life-partners eyes over an elegant dinner on an expensive cruise - and discuss something other than the response of the parents at the next table over to their pre-school son spilling hot dog mustard over his sisters lap.

 

This too, might be folly.

 

Smooth sailing always.

[AerynSun_JohnCrighton]

and discuss something other than the response of the parents at the next table over to their pre-school son spilling hot dog mustard over his sisters lap.

 

LOL!

[ducklovemama]

Today, 12:15 AM

ducklovemama vbmenu_register("postmenu_14028407", true);

Cool Cruiser

Join Date: Sep 2006

Location: Hanover Pennsylvania

Posts: 160

 

 

I think that a person should wear whatever they are comfortable in to dinner.I myself enjoy dressing up for dinner formal and all.I think that jeans and shorts are fine. I donot judge people when it comes to that.I could care less if all my tablemates had shorts and jeans on. I care more about their personality and how much I would enjoy having dinner with them each evening.One of my favorite things about cruising is meeting great people from all over.Remember we all attract people that we are ourselves. So if you are a snob you will connect with snobs. If you are friendly and outgoing you will attract that kind of people.Well folks bottom line its their cruise too !!!!!!!!! I donot give a hoot what someone wants to wear and you should'nt too.

__________________

URL=http://www.cruisecritic.com][/url]

[dakrewser]

It's dumb having a rule and then not enforcing it. Just drop the dumb rule then.

 

 

What's dumb is having people think they are above the rules. I don't want to cruise on a ship that has to "enforce" anything. But I do prefer to cruisse with polite, respectful, considerate passengers.

[momofmeg]

One of the reasons that I do not cruise with Carnival. How would you like to be at a table, on formal night, with another couple in shorts - tank tops and baseball hats ?? or some yayho who looks like he just crawled off his tractor ?

Sorry but I'll pass.

 

I have been told since HAL no longer says in their suggested attire "no jeans" that jeans are now acceptable on casual nights. Carnival was the first to accept jeans, RCI and Princess, not long after.

 

I just never expected HAL to accept jeans.

So I wonder if HAL will accept shorts also within a few months.

 

I have a feeling if a person wants to dress nicer on a cruise and have the people around him/her dressed as they are-they will have to cruise Cunard and Oceania.

[momofmeg]

GOOD God !!!!!!!!!I wore a powder blue tux just like that to my prom in 1980 and a silver grey one as usher in my sisters wedding about 1981.

 

YIKES

 

 

you think those were bad????????? You should have seen the bridesmaid dresses *LOL*

 

Onthe fashion board there was a post that said they saw a man wearing one of these 80's tuxes recently on formal night. Their line of reasoning was they were dressed just as appropriately in their jeans, sloganed tee shirt and sneakers then him, because he was "out of style".

 

I could not understand their reasoning at all.

[momofmeg]

That's definitely a surefire way to get noticed, John.

 

:) :D

 

Rob, that is my daughter Meg. She is a sceince fiction fan-hense her sign on name. So yes she can wear a skirt to an interview and no one will think she is a transvestite. She is a woman-not a man.

[babyher]

Onthe fashion board there was a post that said they saw a man wearing one of these 80's tuxes recently on formal night. Their line of reasoning was they were dressed just as appropriately in their jeans, sloganed tee shirt and sneakers then him, because he was "out of style".

 

I could not understand their reasoning at all.

 

 

*LOL* yea they got me on that one too :)

 

I haven't seen any of those 70s eyesore tuxes on a cruise yet, byt DW has pointed out a few "former brides maid dresses" on a few formal nights.

 

They are either apricot, peach, or lime green with a hoop skirt and three quarter inch sleeves, picture hat and a parasol *LOL*

 

And when the bride always described them to the girls she would say "they are kind of expensive , but they are really nice and you can always wear them again"

 

Yea right, maybe if Juan and Evita Peron come back into power, you have something to wear to the Inauguration :) :)

[fuzzywuzzy]

In polite society, people are expected to do what is requested without an armed guard being present to "enforce" policy. If they don't, rarely will they be punished except, of course, by losing any respect that others might have for them.

 

We just returned from a cruise onboard the Maasdam. It was a ten day cruise and almost every night we ate in the diningroom. Never once did I see casual dress. Everyone was very well dressed almost to the point of being formal every night. It was lovely and sophisticated. It was truly a beautiful dining experience.

[Sbilko]

So Carnival has chosen to allow shorts in the dining room for dinner. Could this be one of the reasons the Mr. Fodor, in one of his travel books, referred to Carnival as “The MacDonald’s of the cruise lines”? As I stated in one of my previous posts, I will wear a jacket and tie, on even the casual nights. On a formal night I will be in my Tux or Dinner Jacket. Gentlemen forget, in this day and age, that you dress to compliment and “showoff” your lady :D . I feel very sorry, for the lady, when I see a couple where the lady is dressed to the standard, while her escort is dressed to well below the standard. IMHO

Change is not always for the better, and the next thing that “The MacDonald’s of the cruise lines” will allow will be coveralls, swim suits, and pajamas. I work in Heavy Industrial Construction Management, and for me it is a pleasure to dress to the expected standard for the entire evening. The day that HAL goes this route for dinner is the day we will find another cruise line, which will get a lot of our money in the years to come, as we plan on doing a lot of cruising. As far as the surcharge for a second bag on the airlines being the reason, I say “Hogwash” :eek: . The $25.00 each, so we can bring dress clothing, is not going to make or break us. It is just a cost of cruising.

Remember the old saying, “If you look your best, you feel you’re best”. ;)

[NoNoNanette]

The day that HAL goes this route for dinner is the day we will find another cruise line, which will get a lot of our money in the years to come, as we plan on doing a lot of cruising.

 

I hesitate to say this, but looking at your published cruise history.....

 

Too little, too late.

 

Holland America doesn't seem to be listening to it's "OLD TIMERS" regarding the enforcement of attire. I doubt that anything on this forum is going to change their minds.

 

They've got a well paid Marketing Department who are looking for the demographic that will make them $$$$$.

 

If this move on Carnival's part = PROFIT, you can bet that HAL will follow.

 

Me, I couldn't care less, either way. :)

[kryos]

I wish that I could have a short term job as a teacher. The reason that I say short term is that I would be fired after 1 week on the job. I would grade not only on the subject but on their ability to write using good English and correct punctuation and their ability to carry on a literate conversation without using slang every 3d word. It would be a fun week however.

I get in trouble when I talk like this, but I agree with you 100%. I am absolutely shocked at work when I get some memos where it is obvious the person can't even construct a basic sentence. And, I'm not talking typographical errors here. Those are different. We all make them when we are rushing. I make them on simple memos that I don't waste time to proof.

 

I used to have a manager, a really wonderful guy, but he absolutely agonized over every memo he put out ... fixing and revising ... because he had such a poor command of the English language. And this guy was not from another country!

 

I think the problem is that there are not enough teachers who "grade tough." They let a lot of things go and as a result many kids are not learning how to speak or how to write. They also, in some cases, are not getting the proper training at home in knowing how to behave in certain situations. Wearing sweatpants on a job interview? Not in my day, and I'm only 52! Do they actually get the job? I wouldn't even give them the courtesy of an interview dressed in that manner.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

So Carnival has chosen to allow shorts in the dining room for dinner. Could this be one of the reasons the Mr. Fodor, in one of his travel books, referred to Carnival as “The MacDonald’s of the cruise lines”?

Yeah, but MacDonalds does a mighty booming business, wouldn't you agree? So obviously there are people who like MacDonald's and patronize them, right?

 

Look, I don't know what all this excitement is about. If Carnival wants to allow shorts in the dining room, and they sail their ships week in and week out full, then obviously they are merely responding to public demand, and that's just the mark of a smart businessperson.

 

True, in our daily lives we have to conform to various dress codes. We have to dress a certain way for work in many cases, we have to dress in an acceptable manner for various functions we must attend. But when we are on a cruise, generally we are on that boat for pleasure ... nothing more and nothing less. So if the public is demanding more flexible dress codes, naturally the cruise line is going to provide them. Obviously for Carnival to make this change, they must have had plenty of input from their passengers in regard to it. They wouldn't just implement it out of the clear blue.

 

So, if people want to wear shorts in the dining room, let them. Who cares? It doesn't impact my cruise experience one iota, just as it does not impact my enjoyment of a dinner I go out for at home. If the person in the next booth at the Outback is wearing low rider jeans and a halter top, I don't even notice. I'm too busy enjoying my own dinner and companionship. So it won't bother me on a cruise either.

 

I say dress in whatever manner makes you comfortable. If you love the formal evenings and getting dressed up, then make arrangements with the group you are traveling with to declare your own formal nights where everyone dresses up and hangs out together for the evening. You will draw a lot of looks from the other passengers, and maybe some of them may learn from you.

 

I say the cruise lines are just trying to offer more options, and for a good segment of the population, that includes more casual dress. But it doesn't mean everyone has to dress that casually. You dress however you feel most comfortable.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

I have a feeling if a person wants to dress nicer on a cruise and have the people around him/her dressed as they are-they will have to cruise Cunard and Oceania.

You very well may be right about that. Don't kid yourself. HAL is a mass market line drawing from just about the EXACT pool of potential passengers that Carnival draws from. So, if Carnival has success with certain implemented policies, the odds are that HAL will not be far behind in implementing those same policies.

 

Cruise lines today are struggling with staying afloat. In the past, most of the folks who cruised were either "well monied" or older. Especially for the more expensive voyages, more exotic and longer, you have the older passenger demographic because they are the ones who generally have the money, and more importantly, the time to take such a voyage. But those older people are not gonna be sailing forever. They are going to retire, age, become more sickly, etc., etc. Then what do the cruise lines do? They need to have a constantly replenishing group of new cruisers coming up to fill the ships.

 

Implementing "flexible" policies brings a lot more of these new cruisers onboard. A lot of folks shy away from a cruise ... won't even consider trying it ... because they don't like the traditional trappings of cruising. They want to dine with their own group, EVERY night. They want to be able to dress casually. They want to have a minimum of structure and schedules. So the cruise lines are trying to meet their needs. They do this with relaxed dress codes and open seating dining. NCL goes even one step further and does it with just about everything onboard the ship.

 

So, sadly, I believe you are right. If we want to enjoy these more "elegant" aspects of cruising ... the fixed dining assignments, the specified dress codes in the dining room, etc., we may very well have to move up to a more expensive cruise line ... one where the "mass market" will not go. And, guess what? Even many of the luxury lines have a totally "resort casual" dress code, and open seating dining onboard their ships. Why? Because obviously that's what their passengers have demanded.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[bUU]

I think statements like "McDonald's of cruise lines" is just a defense mechanism, folks upset about how things are trying to express their frustration in a overly-dramatic manner.

 

Beyond that, what was said earlier about Cunard and Oceania is really important: Suppliers provide options commensurate with what the market wants. As what the market wants changes, what suppliers offer will change. Everyone, of course, thinks their own personal preferences are in some way superior to that of others, but that's just self-serving nonsense. "To each their own" is the rule, and if what you want is what is offered by Cunard and Oceania, then that's where you'll want to go.

[momofmeg]

I think statements like "McDonald's of cruise lines" is just a defense mechanism, folks upset about how things are trying to express their frustration in a overly-dramatic manner.

 

Beyond that, what was said earlier about Cunard and Oceania is really important: Suppliers provide options commensurate with what the market wants. As what the market wants changes, what suppliers offer will change. Everyone, of course, thinks their own personal preferences are in some way superior to that of others, but that's just self-serving nonsense. "To each their own" is the rule, and if what you want is what is offered by Cunard and Oceania, then that's where you'll want to go.

 

The one I always loved was the "Walmart" of cruiselines. So many would post that as to why they would not cruise Carnival. I always wondered how many of those NEVER went in Walmart. LOL! granted they may not buy their clothing there, but surely they buy things like shampoo and dog food at good ole Wallyworld if nothing else.

 

99.9% of these folks would not be saying they cruised HAL or Celebrity instead but RCI. the same line that was the first to follow Carnival with allowing jeans.

 

This always made me wonder if RCI was the "Target" of crusing. (or with the Mac Donalds anology the "Wendy's" of cruising)