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Odd Ball

How long before Hal changes and allows shorts in the dining room ?

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Alas, I suspect "formal" will soon be gone.....:(

 

Well maybe someone would play taps as I commit my three tuxes to the flame. I think that formal night will exist for another five to ten years but I doubt it will be much longer.

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I am no longer sure what I think about this. I would probably have said (and meant it) that I was not interested in what others wore and it made no difference to my cruise. But then came HAL.

 

We have cruised on several lines but mainly Orient, Swan Hellenic and three cruises recently on P&O. P&O is Carnival too and similar ships to HAL. But my word they almost put another meaning on formal. They do formal, informal and smart casual. As a concession for the charter flights they cut informal. Formal however, means just that - though they do add after the tux's a lounge suit will be OK. However, 98% wear a tux - indeed a huge number of men sailing from Southampton take a black and a white jacket. Well over half the women wear long dresses. We mutter and moan a bit when we are packing but go along with whatever a cruiseline tells us. I know, I know, we clearly lack imagination. Once there we quite enjoy it and but would equally not be bothered if they cut it out.

 

Then came our first cruise on HAL. We love HAL and have booked two more cruises but I must admit we were a little thrown by the formals. Venturing out of our cabin all done up it was a shock to see interpretation of formal. I reckon if generous there were about 40% in tuxedos. Very few women in long dresses. Felt a little overdressed but hey, should not let others affect you. My usual attitude of not being affected by others however, took a nasty shock in the theatre. I found it strange to be sitting next to two women wearing a tracksuit and jeans respectively. There were many other odd interpretations of formal. The whole thing was a peculiar mix and to tell the truth I did not like it.

 

I was also struck by how many people - who had dressed up - said they would rather not on holiday - that they do not have to dress up to go out for a meal at home. To be honest I think the people writing on here who think this is the future are right. I would rather have it one way or the other, not a mix.

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This hasn't even received an honorable mention?

 

suit574.jpg

 

Dear lord! The memory may be ever so slightly clouded by the years but I could have sworn that the ushers at my uncle's wedding wore this or darned near the same in 1977.

 

Oh the humanity.

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Just got off the Ryndam Wednesday. I observed men with open sports shirts and a jacket in the dining room on "formal" nights. The ladies all seemed to dress up.

 

The sign in front of the dining room on casual nights no longer says "smart casual" but just "casual".

 

I see that Seabourn is casual all nights. However I doubt that anyone would dress in shorts for dinner on that line.

 

Alas, I suspect "formal" will soon be gone.....:(

 

All the women were in Cocktail dresses or gowns? NEVER in 43 days on HAL did I find all the women adhering to the "guidelines". Besides, my DH would possibly consider shirt, tie and jacket to be "dress up".

 

Again, the double standard. Men, NO EXCEPTIONS!!! Women, wear what you want, and call it "fashion" even if it's polyester black pants and a sparkly tee shirt. I saw that more than once on Volendam in 2001, and it isn't any better on "formal" nights anywhere but the luxury lines now.

 

By the way, Seabourn has quite a few formal nights. Perhaps you are confusing them with Sea Dream, the yacht. Seabourn and Silversea both have formal nights where the vast majority actually do dress formally.

 

Regent has a mix. Longer or exotic itins have a few formals. Alaska, short Caribbean, or short Med cruises have none.

 

HAL hasn't had adherence to their dress codes in years. Why everyone today gets all up in arms about it is quite funny, actually. I saw jeans in the dining room in 2000 in Alaska. No one said a word to the people in jeans.

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It's like years ago in Vegas, everyone use to get dressed up to see a show, now it's anything goes. On formal nights I wouldn't enjoy getting dressed up and sitting next to someone who has shorts on. Now on casual nights nice (longer shorts) with a nice shirt (no tess0 wouldn't be so bad. We met a couple, her husband didn't like eatting in the dining room becasue he couldn't wear shorts, so we ate at the lido to please him. We enjoy the diningroom. There are a few cruises (High end) that sail Alasak and Hawaii that allow shorts in their dining room at night.

Remember As you wish dining everyone thought HAL wouldn't go there but they did and this will also happen down the road.

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Yes things used to be really different.

 

In the past

 

Everybody got dressed up to fly on an airplanes, and the flight attendants were gorgeous. There was even a time where you actually got a meal on a plane instead of peanuts.

 

Everyone used to dress up at Wimbledon and the women all wore hats.

 

Going to get gas meant an attendant would wash your windshield, check your tires and oi,l and fill your tank.

 

People used to go on a job interviews and actually NOT go in sweat pants.

 

There are those who claim "One Has To Realize Things Change"

 

The problem is these are the people who are wearing sweatpants to a job interview.

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No one said a word to the people in jeans.

 

Nor would I. The best thing to do is to simply ignore them, forever.

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This is an interesting thread.

 

I long ago gave up trying to read entrails to predict the future.

 

I think though I see a trend...and it is one that does not bode well for my continued interest in cruising.

 

Our first cruise was on the QE2. When we went to the dining room the first day, it was a casual night. My wife and I came in smartly dressed (I suppose HALs elegantly casual equivalent), and the maitre d' smiled and greeted us with a friendly "welcome aboard". Right behind us was a young lady in a spandex outfit of some sort and I heard him greet her with a correct "Can I help you?" She returned later in more conservative attire and was seated at the table next to ours.

 

Formal nights meant formal wear, and I have to admit to enjoying that - with the same table companions each night.

 

When we sailed HAL it was pretty much the same, and we have enjoyed HAL in many ways even more. Change it seems, is a constant, and the old ways don't last forever.

 

I booked a HAL cruise a few days ago and I am told we have AYW dining. We see now that formal evening dress codes are relaxed...to the point of jeans and shorts in more and more lines. To escape to something different like the alternate dining rooms for example, you must pay a premium which I understand...yet even on this board we see people asking about the rules of bringing 7 year old twins into restaurants like the Pinacle without having to pay the premium and letting them eat from the main dining room childrens menu.

 

I love children as much as the next person, but it seems more and more, an ELEGANT, ADULT dining experience is rapidly becoming a thing of the past on a cruise ship.

 

If this is what the market wants then so be it. Cruise companies are not culture/tradition police, they are profit making organizations and they will do whatever someone convinces them is in the best interest of their shareholders.

 

I will not be an old fart...I will step aside and let whoever follows enjoy their day as we enjoyed ours.

 

Maybe old cruisers never die, they just sail away.:)

 

Smooth sailing to everyone.

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HAL's dress policy will not be decided on this board. It will be decided by the bottom line. If HAL can achieve higher revenues per person and achieve higher occupancy by going casual-whatever that means, then this is what HAL will do. Carnival shareholders will insist on it. HAL is in business to make money. Upholding tradition may be fine, but not if it hurts the bottom line, ie the shareholders. This is how the world works. Some may not like it, but then again they may not be stockholders.

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HAL's dress policy will not be decided on this board. It will be decided by the bottom line. If HAL can achieve higher revenues per person and achieve higher occupancy by going casual-whatever that means, then this is what HAL will do. Carnival shareholders will insist on it. HAL is in business to make money. Upholding tradition may be fine, but not if it hurts the bottom line, ie the shareholders. This is how the world works. Some may not like it, but then again they may not be stockholders.

 

My point exactly!

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... but it seems more and more, an ELEGANT, ADULT dining experience is rapidly becoming a thing of the past on a cruise ship.

 

If this is what the market wants then so be it. Cruise companies are not culture/tradition police, they are profit making organizations and they will do whatever someone convinces them is in the best interest of their shareholders.

 

I will not be an old fart...I will step aside and let whoever follows enjoy their day as we enjoyed ours.

 

Maybe old cruisers never die, they just sail away.:)

 

Smooth sailing to everyone.

 

Excellent post and I am in full agreement.:)

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How do you define dress shorts ?

 

Do white knee socks with sandals go with dress shorts ? :D

 

I noticed last summer "dress shorts" for women entered the working world in Toronto but they are smart looking, tailored, close to the knee, worn with a matching jacket, pantihose and dress shoes with closed toe or flats.

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OMG!

 

PEOPLE DO THAT? do they WANT the job?

 

I always go in a skirt or dress with make-up and hair done.

That's definitely a surefire way to get noticed, John.

 

:) :D

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How do you define dress shorts ?

 

Do white knee socks with sandals go with dress shorts ? :D

 

I noticed last summer "dress shorts" for women entered the working world in Toronto but they are smart looking, tailored, close to the knee, worn with a matching jacket, pantihose and dress shoes with closed toe or flats.

 

I could possibly see like kakhi capri's being 'ok' for casual...POSSIBLY.

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world~citizen, after much reflection I find myself in total agreement with you on this. It serves no purpose, other than harm to my blood pressure, to become all bent out of shape over this. For several years I have lamented to decline in dressing standards and the disrespect that so many are showing for the Line, their fellow passengers, and for the traditions of cruising. While I may mourn the loss of the tradition and the joy of cruising in general, it serves no purpose to try and "crusade" for it, as if there is really anything that the likes of us can do about it. It's not worth the ulcers, nor the unhappiness, and I'll not engage in any of that anymore. Some people thrive on the fight, others thrive on making traditionalists uncomfortable, or unhappy, or both. For myself, I've grown weary of the whole gymkhana; it's not worth the upset, the depression, or the frustration ... nor is it worth having my nose rubbed in my disappointment by those few mean-spirited people who hate my guts. I refuse to give them the satisfaction of making me miserable.

 

If the day ever comes when I am made to feel uncomfortable dressing up for dinner on a cruise, that cruise will be my last. There will be other ways to spend my money other than forking it over to HAL or Cunard or some other Line. I know what I want in a cruise, and when I can't get it I won't be gritting my teeth and shaking my fist. I'll go do something else and keep on enjoying life (much to the consternation of SWMNBN). If HAL, or any other Line, wants my business -- and the business of people like me -- they can cater to me and provide the kind of cruise experience I desire. Otherwise ... bye bye.

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..I'll go do something else and keep on enjoying life (much to the consternation of SWMNBN)...

 

SWMNBN? I am both new to HAL and admittedly stupid.

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SWMNBN? I am both new to HAL and admittedly stupid.

 

No, you're not stupid. There's no real reason why you should know that particular code ... and it doesn't even have anything to do with HAL, in particular. It's a bit of shorthand that some will understand, others not. If you're familiar with the Harry Potter novels, you may catch it :) Sorry ... I probably should have worded it differently.

 

Welcome to HAL, by the way!

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I've enjoyed this thread ...nice conversation with folks expressing their personal opinions with most behaving nicely ...

 

I agree with a previous poster concerning what women wear for formal nights ..they are not held to the same standards as men (i.e. wear tux or suit) I've seen most dressed in cocktail and evening gowns, but I've also seen on every cruise a significant number of women wearing what I consider office attire ..a nice dress or pant suit, but certainly nothing that would seem out of the ordinary if they showed up in the office wearing the same exact outfit, and it certainly wouldn't be classified as formal attire.

 

Rita made some very good points in her posts. We do dress every day for the office, and there are times we just don't feel like doing so on a ship. However, we do not go into the main dining rooms or the show lounges and honor the ship dress code for the evening.

 

Although not a fan of our recent Princess cruise experinces, we did enjoy being on-board the Caribbean Princess ..packing NO formal attire, eating in their Lido and watching a movie under the stars of their formal nights ..for us, and the type of vacation we were seeking that week, it was pure bliss and something we enjoyed much more than dressing up ..it was just the two of us of this cruise, and it's what we wanted to do and the cruise line provided a place for us to go and do what we wanted and provided those that wanted formal attire 5 dining venues and multiple show lounges ... fair enough to me.

 

I will say a couple of years ago on this board I had mentioned that when on an Alaksan cruise (Zaandam) we came back to the ship late after touring all day .. we were tired and just wanted a quick dinner before turning in for the night. I mentioned we went to the Lido (in our jeans) and asked before entering if we were dressed OK .. we were greeted with a broad smile and advised we were more than welcome in the lido ..it wasn't a formal night ..there were folks in there with jeans, shorts, etc. ...we certainly were the norm and not the exception. We ate and retired for the eveing ...again, never went to a lounge or anywhere else on the ship ..there were several here who posted that the the dress code is for the ENTIRE ship and we should have stayed in our cabin with room service or changed into casual clothes. I say to that ... please, get a life. We harmed no one, we asked, we were welcomed and we enjoyed our meal.

 

Cruise lines will listen to their passengers and also the market share they wish to try and lure to their line. Life changes .. all the way through school I was not allowed to wear anything but dresses ...have you seen what kids are wearing at the bus stops? Fashion changes, life changes ..there are ways for us all to enjoy what we like and co-exist peacefully and be respectful of each other. I think cruise lines will find a way to make it work for their passengers ..providing formal and informal opportuinites for everyone on the same night ... However, I also believe there will be a handful of lines that will continue to offer the formal traditions for several years to come ....Don't know if HAL will be one of them, that will depend upon the market share they are targeting.

 

Do you all remember when HAL introduced the Zuiderdam and the uproar from their loyal passengers? Lots of comments posted here about not liking the direction, didn't want to sail on them, etc. Fast forward 5 years and here we are with 4 in the fleet and 1 more rolling out soon ....times change, and as far as I can tell, that loyal following is still posting here and they have sailed on the vista class ships and they have enjoyed them ...Where will the dress code issue be 5-years from now???

 

Peggy

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Ahoy!

 

Indeed, life's too short.

 

SWMNBN = She who must not be named.

 

May everyone's next cruise be a WONDERFUL CRUISE!

 

Bon Voyage & Good Health!

Bob:)

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I think it is coming, just when, remains to be seen.

 

The first step was AYW, next step will be shorts in the dining at dinner. :rolleyes:

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I mentioned we went to the Lido (in our jeans) and asked before entering if we were dressed OK .. we were greeted with a broad smile and advised we were more than welcome in the lido ..it wasn't a formal night ..there were folks in there with jeans, shorts, etc. ...we certainly were the norm and not the exception. We ate and retired for the eveing ...again, never went to a lounge or anywhere else on the ship ..there were several here who posted that the the dress code is for the ENTIRE ship and we should have stayed in our cabin with room service or changed into casual clothes.

 

That was unfortunate; whoever did that was wrong. Yes, the Dress Code is for the entire ship, with the except of the Lido Deck and the Lido Restaurant, which is generally understood as being exempt from the evening's Dress Code for the purpose of providing a place for "casual dining." Also, how long ago was this? For about 2 years, now, jeans have been perfectly acceptable throughout the ship on Casual Nights.

 

Again, that you were told that by several here is unfortunate.

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Ahoy!

 

Indeed, life's too short.

 

SWMNBN = She who must not be named.

 

May everyone's next cruise be a WONDERFUL CRUISE!

 

Bon Voyage & Good Health!

Bob:)

 

LOL ... that's one possible meaning. :D ;) Another would be "Some Who Must Not Be Named." Take your pick.

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