Royal Champions

[Ocean Boy]

Well, if anyone is monitoring me, they would have dropped me from the program because their "sly influencing" hasn't worked.

 

I think that I would have been dropped also. I, myself, started a thread on RCI's pricing policies and how I thought that they might be driving away potential business. I got slapped around for that one. Someone actually asked me if I thought it was RCI's fault that I felt a cruise was overpriced and that I booked a different one. No, I guess it was MY fault that the cruise was overpriced.... as if I set the prices or something.

 

I also got slapped around on the thread about the "cheapos" not spending enough money during a cruise. How dare I side with the folks who don't need a lot of extras during the week to run up their seapass accounts. thus depriving RCI of more income.

 

And I really never should have been invited into the club in the first place considering the stand I took on the fuel surcharge issue.:rolleyes:

 

AND, we could go all the way back to the institution of the charge for fine dining in Johnny Rocket's. Yeah, I'm sure that is what rated me an invite to the club. :)

[critterchick]

Do folks really not see the difference between a loyalty program that rewards everyone at the same level, gold, platinum, serviceperson, senior, etc. and a loyalty program that rewards some, not for their past behavior (number of cruises, service to the country) but for their future behavior, ie favorable posting on the line. If it weren't for the alleged statement by RCCL of continued monitoring and slyly influencing the influencers, maybe one could make the case that the perk wasn't tied to future behavior, but it certainly appears to be.

 

I was invited to go on the Liberty pre-inaugural as an RC AFTER whatever I posted caught the eye of whomever made the decision. In order to be bribed, as some have so charmingly phrased it, the invitation would have to have been made in advance of my posts, not after, and conditioned upon my say8ng great things. Until all this fuss kicked up, as far as I knew, "Royal Champion" was simply a clever slogan on the side of the commuter coffee mug that they gave me (ooh, such payola!)

 

In the same vein, I was rewarded for my continued cruising on RCI with an invitation to the Mariner West Coast Premiere.

 

 

Well, if anyone is monitoring me, they would have dropped me from the program because their "sly influencing" hasn't worked.

 

You and me both!

 

But you've been picked to Champion as cause and in return for that you're getting rewards for that - not my words

 

I don't have any contractual obligation to champion RCI. If their software is sophisticated enough to sort my comments by glowing and excoriating, then they will likely cut me. And if it's that sophisticated, they should also be able to fix the $*%(#$ C&A website.

 

Do I enjoy the product? Of course I do, or I wouldn't have gone on over 40 cruises with them. Do I find them perfect? Read my reviews - no, I do not. I try to present my opinion, which is not swayed by a coffee mug, free 2-night cruise or an aqua mouse (yep, got one of those, too, eat your hears out). A million bucks? Well.....;)

 

One of the mods asked to see a recent review by an RC. Here's mine of the Carnival Paradise, comparing it to Monarch of the seas, which RCI pulled out of the LA market. I posted it to help those suffering from 3-4 day cruise withdrawal decide whether to give Carnival a try (answer: yes)

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=929145&highlight=liked

 

And here's an earlier review from 2008, of Mariner.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=734798&highlight=mariner

 

Decide for yourself whether I'm a shill.

[Ladylouwho]

Dangit...I feel a John Lennon song coming on...

 

Which one? Give Peace a Chance or Imagine? Or maybe one of my personal favorites , Working Class Hero. Gotta love John, great songwriter.

[Ladylouwho]

Thanks for your response. I appreciate your comments. I'm as concerned as you to think that someone thinks they can influence me or any of the other RCs with what we have been invited to so far considering how much it has cost us to attend. I'm still trying to remember what cocktail parties with RCI execs I've been to. Part of the problem is the misinformation put out by the folks responsible for the program.

 

BTW, I hope I'm one of those that has helped you or given you good information.

 

Oh, I'm sure you are. I got hooked on cruising and joined CC in 2003. I have been helped by many on these boards and hope that I have answered questions and helped others as well. I have always said we all have far more in common than we do differences. First and foremost we all love to travel and we all love to cruise!!!!!

[glgolfer]

Which one? Give Peace a Chance or Imagine? Or maybe one of my personal favorites , Working Class Hero. Gotta love John, great songwriter.

 

This isn't in response to this thread, but the previous on to me.

 

I wanted to add that I'm curious what the marketing company is telling RCI. We had a General at AFLC that kept telling Congress a program was doing well when it wasn't. Congress found out and the General went poof.

Not saying that's what's going on here, just makes one wonder.

If I get kicked out of the RC program, I'll post it here.

 

BTW, the General got a very good job with the company running the program he lied about.

[nanfromatlanta]

I have been reading this thread with great interest since it began last night. I have also followed all of the pervious threads on this subject.

 

Needless to say, it has been a totally unproductive day for me. It even prevented me from paying more attention to more important things like attempting to get the last three answers to cluestothecruise... :eek: :D

 

What I find most interesting is the number of posters on this thread who have seemingly come out of nowhere. Many of them have almost never posted on the Royal Caribbean forum or have never cruised on Royal Caribbean, and yet have a lot to say about the RC program. :rolleyes:

 

I am not a Royal Champion, however, for years I have been aware of who many of them are. In most cases, I have felt that their reviews and comments have been fairly true and accurate. As a matter of fact, some of them have listed cruise lines other than Royal Caribbean as their favorites. Now, that's honesty for you! ;)

[xpcdoojk]

I have been reading this thread with great interest since it began last night. I have also followed all of the pervious threads on this subject.

 

Needless to say, it has been a totally unproductive day for me. It even prevented me from paying more attention to more important things like attempting to get the last three answers to cluestothecruise... :eek: :D

 

What I find most interesting is the number of posters on this thread who have seemingly come out of nowhere. Many of them have almost never posted on the Royal Caribbean forum or have never cruised on Royal Caribbean, and yet have a lot to say about the RC program. :rolleyes:

 

I am not a Royal Champion, however, for years I have been aware of who many of them are. In most cases, I have felt that their reviews and comments have been fairly true and accurate. As a matter of fact, some of them have listed cruise lines other than Royal Caribbean as their favorites. Now, that's honesty for you! ;)

 

You noticed all of that too! :D It is a fascinating experience to read this.

 

jc

[jaxon41]

jaxon...First, NOTHING in this deal is tied to "future behavior"...I have never been asked by anyone to do anything..."

 

Quote - from msnbc

 

Harrison Liu, manager of brand communications for Royal Caribbean International

 

"Harrison said that the selection criteria, responsibilities and benefits of Royal Champions are confidential in order to ensure the maximum level of objectivity among the group."

 

Assuming this is an accruate quote, I think I will take RCCL's word for it. I don't know what your or anyone else's "responsibility" is, although a priori, there is one, or what the "benefit" is, except for those who have said they received one.

 

 

"BUT...all things--loyalty programs, advertising, promised perks, sales come-ons--ALL tie into future behavior."

 

Tieing into future behavior is not the same as requiring a certain future behavior to stay in the club. Again, I will take RCCL's words regarding monitoring the posts of the RC members for frequency and positiveness.

 

"They are ALL trying to get people to buy their product IN THE FUTURE."

 

But in this instance, they are trying to get the RC's to get others to buy the product in the future. There's a difference.

 

"Second, ALL "loyalty" programs award "some"...or reward some different..."

 

No, those in the same class are rewarded similarly. If a senior discount is offered, or a military -- those who ask for it, get it, etc. One might get more points for a suite, but no more than others booking a suite. Upgrades are random; RC's were not chosen randomly.

 

"The cruise line can give away whatever it wants to whoever it wants...it doesn't need to have a reason...it doesn't need to be fair..."

 

I agree with you, but that is not the point.

 

"What are you missing here?"

 

What are you?

 

 

"Life isn't fair...

 

People in business do whatever they have to do...or want to do...if they think it in some way helps their business...and that may mean giving selective perks to some people and not to others...

 

So what?"

 

You mistakenly believe I am upset with RCCL. No, I realize business has become quite unethical in the last several decades in the name of the bottom line, and I accept that. My anger is toward crusie critic.

 

"BTW, the Travel Agent who sold you your cruise--maybe influenced you to taking that cruise--well, they probably got a freebie along the line somewhere as well..."

 

I don't use them, any more -- too many less than satisfactory experiences. Any one who does use them and does not know of the freebies they get to promote a product, are naive. Much of the complaint here has been that cc'ers weren't informed, and when they became informed, there appeared to be an effort to keep others from knowing.

 

"I guarantee you that your doctor is getting all sorts of perks from the drug company that manufctures that medication he just prescribed you..."

 

Since I am married to one of those critters, I can tell you that you are operating with old information. Those days are LONG gone, in large part because the practice was exposed.

 

"Yes, in a "perfect world", nobody does anything to influence anyone..."

 

No argument. In a perfect world the SEC would have stopped Madoff when they were told of nefarious acts, and regulations would not have been removed to allow for bogus ratings and credit swaps. Ah, for the day!

[glgolfer]

Jaxon41 - where in IL? My wife's from Freeport.

[Cruising89143]

 

I am not a Royal Champion, however, for years I have been aware of who many of them are. In most cases, I have felt that their reviews and comments have been fairly true and accurate. As a matter of fact, some of them have listed cruise lines other than Royal Caribbean as their favorites. Now, that's honesty for you! ;)

 

Yep and some of us cruise other lines besides RCI.

[jaxon41]

quote=Ladylouwho;18537400]

 

The RC PROGRAM is something very different to these other reward programs. It is very, very select and it is by invitation only and the criteria for receiving an invitation is unknown other than what RCL has said publicly.

 

Since the rules and perks, etc are so clearly laid out about the other RCL "Benefit" programs is it any wonder some people are curious about this new program and would like to find out information about the program? Is there something negative or wrong about that?

 

It is really that simple. Nothing about being right or wrong. Just asking questions and trying to get information.

 

 

Same goes for any perks received by being Gold, Platinum, Diamond or Diamond Plus. The rules are set in stone. The Diamond Plus folks sometimes get invited to pre-inaugurals as a perk, and this was understood to be a perk earned by them.

 

But the RC Program is very different and the rules are not set out and people have questions about the Program. Valid topic for Cruise Critic in my opinion.

 

Colleen

 

Well put, and I agree

[xpcdoojk]

Jaxon41, gosh knows nothing is more un-natural than me defending cruise critic. I still do not believe that they have done anything unethical. Of course, I lack that refined sense of ethics that many on this thread seems to possess. I, personally would have been outraged if Laura would have given member information without member approval. She didn't.

 

Other than that I am unaware of any ethical violation that they have done, and outside of a totally irrelevant blogger who seems to have a major lack of ethics. I think you are way way out in left field. JMHO

 

jc

 

PS, why can't you properly use the quote function is that Laura's fault too?

[Cruiserccl]

I'm not surprised that so many people think they are being swayed in some brainwashing fashion by such a small number of Royal Champions. Look how many CCers are falling all over themselves to take a stuffed blue bear on a cruise.:p

 

I'm an RC and have never given it much thought; have always thought it was an inconsequential designation. I have no internal or external censor that stops me from saying critical things (not always a good thing).

 

I loved being invited on a free cruise on Liberty. It was an opportunity for me to try out a ship that I wouldn't have paid to travel on. And I still won't (too big, and, although there are many cool things to do onboard, that's not why I cruise), so perhaps that particular invitation backfired on them. On the other hand, if somebody with kids asked me if they should do it, I would probably say yes, from the first hand experience of seeing what there is for them. I don't think that makes me a shill for the line, does it?

Should i take that the good or bad way? The only reason i started Bennie was to bring fun to Cruise Critic.

[Micki Dee]

Should i take that the good or bad way? The only reason i started Bennie was to bring fun to Cruise Critic.

 

Bennie is fun in my book! I enjoy reading about his travels! Keep up the good work Chris!!:)

[nanfromatlanta]

Well JC, I do not see a grand conspiracy here at all, never did. I didn't take your remarks to be about me at all. I was just pointing out your negative comments about some perceived group of posters.

 

I am trying to find out information about the RC PROGRAM implemented by Royal Caribbean and assisted in part by Cruise Critic in helping them implement the RC PROGRAM. I have no ill will or suspicions about any RC's as individuals. They are actually caught in the middle.

 

If there is a tiny minority of posters who are hand selected and grouped together and given titles and the possibility of perks by one particular Cruise Line (Advertiser) on this Websight, why is it so wrong for CC members to find out and know about this?

 

The C & A programs are not secret, they are out in the open and available for any individual who signs up and the perks get better as one gains more points. No one is hand selected, everyone has a chance to earn the perks.

 

The Royal Caribbean Visa points Program is not secret, it is out in the open and available to anyone who agrees to the terms of the Visa agreement and earns points by spending money with RCL AND spending money using the Visa in general. No one is hand selected, it is open to everyone.

 

The stockholder benefit is open to anyone who buys stock in RCL. No hand selected group, everyone who buys stock can earn the benefit.

 

These programs all give perks in various forms but are open to EVERYONE if they so desire to join the program and participate in the program and follow the rules of the program. People are rewarded based upon their participation and the rewards are distributed in a very set way.

 

The RC PROGRAM is something very different to these other reward programs. It is very, very select and it is by invitation only and the criteria for receiving an invitation is unknown other than what RCL has said publicly.

 

Since the rules and perks, etc are so clearly laid out about the other RCL "Benefit" programs is it any wonder some people are curious about this new program and would like to find out information about the program? Is there something negative or wrong about that?

 

It is really that simple. Nothing about being right or wrong. Just asking questions and trying to get information.

 

For instance I will be taking another "Free" RCL cruise ($2,500 off) on the Liberty of the Seas this summer earned by using RCL Visa points. I knew what I had to do to earn the cruise, that is to spend enough money on the Visa to earn the points. This program is open to everyone and the perks are rewarded based on strict rules.

 

Same goes for any perks received by being Gold, Platinum, Diamond or Diamond Plus. The rules are set in stone. The Diamond Plus folks sometimes get invited to pre-inaugurals as a perk, and this was understood to be a perk earned by them.

 

But the RC Program is very different and the rules are not set out and people have questions about the Program. Valid topic for Cruise Critic in my opinion.

 

Colleen

 

I am not a Royal Champion, however I do know many of them. To the best of my knowledge, there are no rules in the program. Some have been invited to a pre inaugural and others, I believe, may have participated in focus groups. They are free to cruise on whichever line they choose and be as vocal for or against any cruise line or policy they wish..... no rules or contracts to sign!!

[jaxon41]

Jaxon41, gosh knows nothing is more un-natural than me defending cruise critic. I still do not believe that they have done anything unethical. Of course, I lack that refined sense of ethics that many on this thread seems to possess. I, personally would have been outraged if Laura would have given member information without member approval. She didn't.

 

Other than that I am unaware of any ethical violation that they have done, and outside of a totally irrelevant blogger who seems to have a major lack of ethics. I think you are way way out in left field. JMHO

 

jc

 

PS, why can't you properly use the quote function is that Laura's fault too?

 

I ignored the first jab you took at me (the one about the psychologist), but I will address this one. Gee, I used the quote function -- tried the multi quote function but it wouldn't give me a box. Perhaps you can tell me what I am doing wrong. Darned if I know why when I tried another post, the box came up with all the quotes from the previous post, and I had to erase all of them to get to the quote I was trying to respond to -- do you know why? What does Laura have to do with anything -- you will find no post from me criticizing her for not giving the addresses to RCL. That was commendable. I have no problem with her contacting the cc members, assuming she just forwarded a message from RCCL to contact them. Unfortunately, however, that was the trigger to putting cc in the middle of this.

 

Did you read the post from the Texas journalist describing "buzzagent?" In the end it is about disclosure and transparency -- buzz words, if you will, for the entire country right now.

 

Your "X" actually rings a bell with me, but I would have to research the mega fuel surcharge thread to see if the bell it rang, clinged or clanged.

[Alexis]

I don't know where you are getting your facts but you are totally wrong.

 

1. No one asked Cruise Critic to make any recommendations for inclusion into the Royal Champions.

 

2. I believe that the Royal Champions DO know that this is a marketing decision, as they were contacted BY the marketing folks at Royal Caribbean PLUS most of them met the Internet Marketing & Loyalty people in person.

 

3. Cruise Critic has nothing to hide. We were asked to assist in contacting members for a Cruise Line. We did so. We've done it before for MANY reasons, usually when a cruise line wanted to reach out and assist one of our members with a problem they were having.

 

Royal Caribbean was and is directly involved in the Royal Champions. THAT is a fact.

 

Laura

 

I am sorry, but I have to answer this post for myself.

I am assuming you are speaking of the Liberty pre-inaugural cruises and the first group of Royal Champions that were made on board her?

I speak for myself, but I have never met any Internet Marketing & Loyalty people in person. Never.

Not even on the Mariner on Feb. 20 - 22. I never met a soul on that trip. My invitation to the Crown and Anchor party was never even delivered to me until the morning I was getting off of the ship. :( It was on the floor in front of our cabin door as we were dragging our suitcase to leave. If they were there? I have no idea?

I even asked on here who I could thank when I got home. Someone posted an email address for me to send a thank you to and I did.

I even posted I had no idea why I was invited? I thought it was because I could not go on the Liberty that time?

Alexis

[pcur]

Couldn't agree more !!

 

 

Isn't Fact 50 Champs were reward with a free cruise or was that lies ????

 

 

 

 

jj.....

 

IT.......IS.......NOT........A.....FACT.

 

An overnight at the dock, with dinner and drinks is what was offered to SOME Royal Champions. IT'S THE EQUIVALENT OF BEING COMPED IN LAS VEGAS at a casino.

[jaxon41]

Well, what an interesting diversion from work!!

 

I have some opinions on Ms Potter and they are very similar to jc. Not too long ago, she penned a bunch of half truths on her website. For some reason, I was compelled to point out that much of what she wrote consisted of "partial truths" that were cleverly manipulated and used out of context. This story was about RCL, and was not very flattering.

 

Well, I called attention to it, and she referred to me as "quite the Royal Champion" as I recall. Now, it seemed kind of interesting at the time, but is even more so now. This exchange is still available over at her little blog site. And I use the term little to mean "little visited" :o

 

 

I have been unable to find the exchange of which you speak -- perhaps you could be so kind as to provide a link, so we can judge for ourselves.

[Ladder55]

I ignored the first jab you took at me (the one about the psychologist), but I will address this one. Gee, I used the quote function -- tried the multi quote function but it wouldn't give me a box. Perhaps you can tell me what I am doing wrong. Darned if I know why when I tried another post, the box came up with all the quotes from the previous post, and I had to erase all of them to get to the quote I was trying to respond to -- do you know why? What does Laura have to do with anything -- you will find no post from me criticizing her for not giving the addresses to RCL. That was commendable. I have no problem with her contacting the cc members, assuming she just forwarded a message from RCCL to contact them. Unfortunately, however, that was the trigger to putting cc in the middle of this.

 

Did you read the post from the Texas journalist describing "buzzagent?" In the end it is about disclosure and transparency -- buzz words, if you will, for the entire country right now.

 

Your "X" actually rings a bell with me, but I would have to research the mega fuel surcharge thread to see if the bell it rang, clinged or clanged.

sorry for what X seems to be doing, after reading through all of these post he for some reason feels the need to be very defensive.

 

 

My other thoughts=====

after reading lauras comment about how she would not disclose personal CC'ers imformation I thought well ya,thats a given we would never expect that, what needed to be disclosed was the behind the scenes arrangement of the relationship that has been going on between rccl and cc==

all that needed to be said or disclosed was that rccl contacted cc and asked for a few people to help with marketing, wasnt that easy? imo if that was posted none of this would be going on, so why wasnt it is my question ?if there is nothing wrong or nothing to hide with the RC program??

[Cruiserccl]

Did anyone get a reply back from the second email? I sent my info in again but i havent received a reply.

[Bruins14]

I like to give everyone a chance, so I did what some RCs said, I went back, and read some post. I read some very critical comments about RCI buy some RCs. It dosen't seem like these RCs were worried about RCI removing them, or they would not write these comments JMHO.

[pcur]

Did anyone get a reply back from the second email? I sent my info in again but i havent received a reply.

 

Me, neither.

[5waldos]

There are many many years and hundreds of studies which demonstrate how easy it is to influence judgement. Nobody should be suggesting that RCs are posting anything that they do not truly believe. But how easy it is to very subtly shift peoples opinions. It doesn't take a lot and especially doesn't take rules to follow. For example, change the name or the gender on a job application and the person will be seen as significantly more or less prepared for a job. Smile at someone and touch them lightly on the arm apparently randomly while they are watching one of two stories and they will prefer that one to the one you didn't smile during. The examples could go on and on. And believe that the agency that came up with the idea of the RCers KNOW this. That is what advertising is based on. None of you are lying or doing anything you don't feel is correct. It's just that in very subtle ways your impressions have almost certainly have been shifted.

 

This is not opinion. This is fact which is backed up by huge amounts of scientific evidence. Now, if you wish to claim that science knows nothing then that is your decision. But don't imagine that you are immune from this basic part of human nature. Educated or not, smart or not, honest or not. These things do not change the fact that opinions can be shifted. And you will NOT be aware that you have been influenced. It does not take huge rewards- simply having been selected as in some unknown way as special is enough. Would you lie for them? NO. Would you not see real problems as problems? NO. But in many small ways it is highly likely that you will see things as slightly more positive than you would otherwise.

 

And to my mind, therein lies the rub. It was intentional and part of a program designed to do just that.

[The Grumpus]

I like to give everyone a chance, so I did what some RCs said, I went back, and read some post. I read some very critical comments about RCI buy some RCs. It dosen't seem like these RCs were worried about RCI removing them, or they would not write these comments JMHO.

Oh, well that proves it then. The Royal Champions were picked by Royal Caribbean Martketing because of their negitive comments about RCI. Thanks for clearing that up for us.