Live onboard Zuiderdam -- "Friends of Dorothy" party request DENIED!!

[JeffCoud]

Hey folks...I'm writing live onboard the Holland America Line Zuiderdam. We are at sea today (having not been able to tender at Half Moon Cay).

 

This morning I wrote a nice note to the Cruise Director Pete (can't remember last name....) requesting a Friends of Dorothy party to be scheduled for tomorrow, which is also a sea day.

 

Pete was kind enough to leave me a voice mail letting me know that, per Holland America corporate policy in Seattle (my paraphrase) about 6-7 weeks ago they can no longer host and publicize such gatherings. He said he would be happy to put such a party together in a public room, but they could not put it in the daily bulletin!

 

At this moment....I am damn angry! Which I certainly don't need on my long awaited vacation. At great splurgy expense to myself I have booked as a solo in a Cat S suite....not exactly chump change! But this is absolutely my 2nd and last Holland America cruise unless this policy is changed asap! I can't believe in this day and age such a policy would exist. I think in today's program, for example, they've had meetings for people who like to play bridge, and for veterans. So what is the big deal -- we are but yet another group of people who have some common interests. Isn't the cruise line's job to bring people together for an enjoyable vacation experience?

 

I do want to be clear I do not harbor any ill will towards the CD...he was kind enough to respond to my note and was just relaying a corporate policy -- which he did not create -- to me.

 

In any case, Pete said I could call him at various times this evening, but really why bother? The whole point is to get a room and have it in the daily program....it's not like I have some magic ability to "spread this by word of mouth", using his words....to every gay and lesbian passenger on the ship. I don't want to go around making presumptions about people right?

 

Holland America -- wake up!!

 

Jeff Coudriet <-- taking my $$ back to Celebrity which has never turned down my request to host such a party.

[x lindsay x]

Wow that is a big shock. Back on our October 23rd Zuiderdam cruise there were probably 3-4 F.O.D. meetings during the 7 day trip. I can't tell you whether they were well attended or not, as no one in my party attended any of the meetings. Maybe no one was showing up to them so the line decided to drop them from the daily program. Who knows...?

I can tell you that Dane Butcher, not Pete whatever his last name is, was our CD. Pete was the main Assitant CD and his major responsibility was calling bingo everyday. That probably doesn't make much difference but maybe if the CD is a big supporter of such meetings that they wouldn't be taken off the agenda.

[DoctorFeelgood]

It is too late to cancel my 12/30 cruise without significant financial loss, but if this is indeed the Corporate Holland America policy, I will not be booking any more HAL cruises.

 

The puritanical shift in US politics has gone far enough as far as I'm concerned.

[MortgageChick]

I think HAL owes you an explanation. If there are enough people with like interests, regardless of what they are, they should be allowed to meet and have the meeting in the daily bulletin. Service Clubs meetings and AA meetings (Bill W) are advertised , so why not Friends of Dorothy. Talk with your $$.

My Husband and I support diversity on board!!

[Krazy Kruizers]

Hve done this as a suite passenger for people whom we wished to entertain in our suite. We had the concierge print up invitations to send to various people. She did this - no extra expense.

You mentioned that you were in a suite.

SO - How many were in your group?

Could everyone have met in your suite/verandah? Lots of room.

 

[dakrewser]

Is there some reason why you didn't plan this ahead of time with the home office? I certainly wouldn't expect the CD to put on a public party at a moment's notice on any one passenger's whim, no matter what the group was.

 

And he did offer to help you throw a private party in a public room.

 

So, I'm sorry, but I can't see anything for you to get huffy about.

 

-dave

[venicecruiser]

I think the point Jeff is trying to make is that unless the Friends of Dorothy gathering is posted in the daily paper, how would he know who onboard would be interested in attending. He's sailing by himself, not with a group.

 

If this is a new corporate policy of HAL, they will get no more of my money as I do not patronize businesses that practice discrimination.

[bepsf]

Jeff--

Have you considered asking the CD to show you the memo that outlines the written policy and also asking him for the name and e-mail address of the individual at HAL corporate in Seattle with whom you could confirm this policy from the ship?

I sincerely doubt that this CD is telling the truth - I have the feeling that he may be the same CD who pulled a similar stunt on Westerdam. What's his name?

"Dont get mad - get even."

[halos]

.

The puritanical shift in US politics has gone far enough as far as I'm concerned.

 

Amen to that! (pun intended!)

[tomc]

Is the question "No more FOD notices in the daily bulletin" or "No more special notices in the daily bulletin"? It's quite possible that requests for the Red Hat Society (a real group) have multiplied, the Jew For Jesus, Catholics For Moses, Atheists For Nobody groups all want to attract their followers.

 

And it could be that some of the pax complaints are from scared straights who are afraid of looking in the mirror.

[x lindsay x]

dakrewser-

I think the problem is that F.O.D. meetings have been a regularly scheduled and advertised thing on the Zuiderdam, I don't know about other ships, so I will only speak for the Zuiderdam. It seems that the original poster was looking forward to these meetings and had not heard anything to suggest that they were being stopped and not able to be accomodated.

Why the sudden stop in holding meetings now?

 

Have they stopped holding Friends of Bill W. meetings too?

F.O.D. is not just a get-together, it's technically a support group.

[voyeurism26]

WE had our FOD party on our September cruise and did not have a problem...matter of fact every HAL ship we went on had a FOD party. However, I am not amazed at the decision, if true, if the decision to have such a social gathering onboard the ship. Its just another service that HAL has been taking away from its clients.

 

As I posted in my previous post, HAL's service and food has been declining for the past serval years and we have noticed that Celebrity is a much better cruiseline. If HAL keeps up this type of service, then I guess we can call it the "NEW HAL FUN SHIPS".

 

-V26

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Is the question "No more FOD notices in the daily bulletin" or "No more special notices in the daily bulletin"? It's quite possible that requests for the Red Hat Society (a real group) have multiplied, the Jew For Jesus, Catholics For Moses, Atheists For Nobody groups all want to attract their followers.

 

 

I think Tom has a point here.Perhaps they are running out of room in the daily bulletin trying to accomodate all requests.

 

SO ....Why not have a notce board in or around the lobby area,where folk could post a get together.

[tomc]

I'm not one of Dorothy's friends, but I do read the bulletins (ok, scan them) and don't recall seeing any meetings on the NE/C runs in the last seven years. That would be on the Rotter, Amster, Maas and Veen. Voy26: You've seen them on every ship? Or every ship in the warmer latitudes?

[colo-cruiser]

Jeff,

I just returned from the voyage before the one that you are on right now. I had been on this ship in July of this year and the CD, Dane Bucher, was very agreeable to FOD get togethers. I was surprised to see that Dane was NOT the CD for the trip from last week. The word was that he was on a vacation and was due to come back to the Zuiderdam after two weeks.

I had heard that Peter Clingan was filling in for the CD for the next two weeks. His rookie-ness seemed to show. He actually seemed nervous about being in his role and seemed to overcompensate for many things. Nevertheless, he seemed to be a very considerate person. I kept checking the daily schedule but did not see the FOD as I had expected.

I suspect that the policy is really up to the CD alone.

The entertainment cast has library duty in the mornings and afternoons. It might be worthwhile to catch them and chat with them to see what the real scoop is.

 

Still, I did have a great week. It's what you make of it and I think you are going to make it a great week despite some difficulties.

 

Have a great week.

[RevNeal]

There were FOD meetings on the Zaandam for it's Panama Canal Cruise this last Fall.

[dot73]

If this is the new HAL policy, my fifth cruise with HAL will be my last. I will not give my money to any corporation that discriminates against any group. If they will not allow FOD announcements, then they should also remove the Catholic Mass, AA, and other ads for various groups. I really find it hard to believe that a company like HAL would have a policy about this. They are part of an ownership that owns more than one cruiseline and if they were boycotted by gays and people like me who abhor any kind of prejudice, they would shoot themselves in the foot economically. I have a feeling that the CD made the decision on his own. I would go straight to the captain and ask about this policy.

[ualtim]

I have only seen FOD meetings adverstised on the Zuiderdam this past September. Neither I or my wife knew what they were until we got home and searched the internet (same thing with friends of Bill W. when we took our first Princess Cruise in 2000.) We have not seen an FOD meeting on any other ship (Princess or HAL) that we have sailed on until the Zuiderdam. I kind of though it was a cool idea and was wondering if it would be possible to have a CC meeting advertised in the daily program to attract new members, but I am guessing that is not possible. I wonder what kind of meeting would qualify to be advertised?

[voyeurism26]

Tomc- Yes! The HAL ships in the Carribean have had the FOD meeting. They had one on the Westerdam, The Maasdam and the Zuiderdam. IMO I think its up to the CD to make the decision. I don't think HAL and its parent company has any protocal or rules or policy set regarding such meetings onboard. I would imagine that if a large group are going to book a cruise then special arrangements would be made via group sales. However the FOD meetings and Friends of Bill. W and those types of meetings are made by the CD and it all depends if the CD wants to go the extra step or not. Since the CD was NOT Dane Butcher and it seemed to be a NEW temporary CD, I think he was not experienced enough and thought he did not have the position to make that kind of decision and used HAL corporate as an excuse.

 

If you notify HAL's corporate office they will tell you such meetings are decided on the ship by the CD and the CD will make the decision if they will have the meeting or not. Some CD on other ships will NOT agree with a FOD meeting and some will. We have been on NCL, Carinvor (carnival) and Celebrity and we have requested an FOD party and sometimes our wishes are granted and sometimes its not. I wouldn't judge the whole cruiseline based on a few lousy CD's. Based it on service and food and how you are treated by staff members and your whole total cruise experience. Being a gay man and having a partner for over 12 years, we know which cruiseline to go on and which not to go on.

 

-V26

[Cruiseoften]

Maybe I'm missing something here - to my knowledge HAL does not "host" 'Friends of Dorothy' or 'Bill what's his name' get togethers - meetings are announced in the daily program - same applies to bridge player get togethers. I've seen such notices on all our cruises on most of the "dam" ships. Asking HAL to 'host' such a meeting may have been misunderstood.

[Lisa63]

I just glanced through the daily programs from our August 2004 Canada/New England cruise on Maasdam, and there was no listing for a Friends of Dorothy meeting. There were, however, get-togethers listed for the following: Service Clubs (1-time listing), Military Veterans (1 time), Singles (1 time), Pax Ages 18-25 (twice), and Non-Hosted Card Players (several times).

[avalon1025]

Holland America has always been a gay friendly cruise line (I've seen their ads in many gay periodicals as well as having been the venue for many gay charters and countless gay groups). I think it might have been the cruise director at the time. We had many FOD gatherings on QM2 last month and on HAL ships in the past.

[dakrewser]

Once again some folks in this thread are getting their knoickers in a twist without knowing all of the ddtails of the situation.

 

 

1) were any group gatherings listed in the daily blat?

2) can anyone request a listing in the bulletin?

3) is there a new policy or not?

4) was the (supposedly new) CD even aware that FOD was not a group sdailing together (who could easily notify each other of a gathering?

 

So very much was left unsaid in the OP's note.

 

Now, of course, the daggers will be drawn and I'll be accused of being a HAL apologist. Though. I want facts before I'm ready to condemn someone.

 

-dave

[bepsf]

Once again some folks in this thread are getting their knoickers in a twist without knowing all of the ddtails of the situation.

 

 

1) were any group gatherings listed in the daily blat?

2) can anyone request a listing in the bulletin?

3) is there a new policy or not?

4) was the (supposedly new) CD even aware that FOD was not a group sdailing together (who could easily notify each other of a gathering?

 

So very much was left unsaid in the OP's note.

 

Now, of course, the daggers will be drawn and I'll be accused of being a HAL apologist. Though. I want facts before I'm ready to condemn someone.

 

-dave

I think the key is #3, Dave - that there is very likely NO SUCH "new policy". We simply have a case of a CD arbitrarily deciding not to have a meeting posted in the daily bulletin and he doesn't think that this one passenger will bother to get to the bottom of it - at least not while he's still aboard....

[Oppgaard]

Jeff,

 

I am very sorry to hear of your difficulty in getting an FOD party scheduled. As a Cruise Specialist here in the Palm Springs area I have a majority of gay clients and they always appreciate sailing on a cruise line that is willing to scedule FOD events. I just returned with a group from the NCL STAR and they scheduled get togethers almost on a nightly basis. I had requested this from customer service prior to our cruise and was told that this would not be possible, but when we got onboard, the parties had already been scheduled. It is my personal belief that it is entirely up to the Cruise Director if they wish to do this or not. Like other posters, I think your CD is to blame.

 

If you booked this cruise through a travel agent, I would notify them of your displeasure and have them contact HAL for an official word. If they don't go to bat for you, I would switch agents. I am going to contact HAL myself tomorrow for clarification on this issue and let them know that I have several bookings that will probably be cancelled if this is their true corporate policy.

 

Please keep us informed to what takes place.

 

 

Jerry