Jones Act: Seattle to Vancouver

[Leafpeeper]

We are booked on NCL Star sailing from Vancouver to LA. We found out that the Star will be doing a 1 night sailing from Seattle the day before. We wanted to book our cruise starting in Seattle but somebody posted that you can't sail the same cruiselines from Seattle to Vancouver and then take the repositioning crusie we are taking to LA.

 

We booked the Princess ship for their 1 night cruise to Vancouver and then will transfer over to the NCL Star. We were told that as long as we are sailing on different cruiselines that the Jones Act is not a problem.

 

Please let me know if this is correct.

[Cruise Junky]

We are booked on NCL Star sailing from Vancouver to LA. We found out that the Star will be doing a 1 night sailing from Seattle the day before. We wanted to book our cruise starting in Seattle but somebody posted that you can't sail the same cruiselines from Seattle to Vancouver and then take the repositioning crusie we are taking to LA.

 

We booked the Princess ship for their 1 night cruise to Vancouver and then will transfer over to the NCL Star. We were told that as long as we are sailing on different cruiselines that the Jones Act is not a problem.

 

Please let me know if this is correct.

 

That is correct, but it's not the Jones Act, the the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

[paul929207]

As I understand it, the Passenger Vessel Service Act prohibits a cruise line from carrying a passenger from one US port to another. Because you are changing cruise lines,it is OK.

 

Keep in mind that few if any of us are lawyers expert in this area of the law.

[Leafpeeper]

I still don't understand because we took a repo cruise last Fall from Boston and went to the caribbean and then ended in Miami. Why can't we go from Seattle to Vancouver, Canada and continue on to Victoria,Canada and Astoria, Oregon, San Francisco, and finish in LA?

 

I thought that some Alaska cruises start in Seattle and go to Canada before going to Alaska.

 

I am still confused. Perhaps I should read the regulations and then I will understand.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Leafpeeper

[Cruise Junky]

Duplicate Post

Edited June 28, 2009 by Cruise Junky

[Cruise Junky]

I still don't understand because we took a repo cruise last Fall from Boston and went to the caribbean and then ended in Miami. Why can't we go from Seattle to Vancouver, Canada and continue on to Victoria,Canada and Astoria, Oregon, San Francisco, and finish in LA?

 

I thought that some Alaska cruises start in Seattle and go to Canada before going to Alaska.

 

I am still confused. Perhaps I should read the regulations and then I will understand.

 

 

If you did Boston to Miami via the Caribbean, you would have hit a foreign distant port. Vancouver, Victoria are not foreign distant ports. The Seattle one's do a return to Seattle which is fine, its going from one us port to another.

[paul929207]

To comply with the PVSA, if you start in one US port and end in another US port, must visit at least on distant foriegn port. On you cruse from Boston to Miami, did you stop in the southern Caribbean or South America?

[smeyer418]

PVSA prohibits a non US flagged vessel(cruise ship) from transporting a passenger between two different US ports unless the ship visits a distant foreign port. Distant foreign ports are any port not in North America. The ABC islands and South America are distant foreign ports. Normally a repo stops in Aruba or Columbia which are distant foreign ports. A cruise which starts and ends at the same US port isn't transporting anyone anywhere permanently so its ok and if it stops anywhere it must stop at one nearby foreign port( a cruise to no where doesn't stop anywhere)....which is any foreign port.

A cruise that ends in a foreign port also isn't transporting anyone between two different US ports and finally a back to back no matter how long as long as it doesn't stop at a distant foreign is considered one cruise for PVSA purposes but not if you travel on another cruise line(which of course is not a btb)

[GTVCRUISER]

I am cruising from San Diego to Vancouver BC , I am staying in Vancouver over night the next day I will cruise to Alaska for 7 days and back to Vancouver , this will be on Holland America 2 different ships , will this be legal ?

[Nitemare]

Assuming the 2 ships' itineraries are legal, no authority will care what your total plans are.

[njhorseman]

I am cruising from San Diego to Vancouver BC , I am staying in Vancouver over night the next day I will cruise to Alaska for 7 days and back to Vancouver , this will be on Holland America 2 different ships , will this be legal ?

 

Yes, it's legal. In fact it would also be legal if you were doing this itinerary on a single ship without the overnight stay in Vancouver, because you would be starting in San Diego and ending in Vancouver. The PVSA only regulates cruises starting in one US port and ending in a different US port.

[GTVCRUISER]

Thank You :)

[njhorseman]

Assuming the 2 ships' itineraries are legal, no authority will care what your total plans are.

 

While that's true in the poster's case because they are cruising on separate ships with an overnight stay between the two cruises, it's not always true if the cruises are done on the same ship with no intervening land stay. If a ship was cruising from San Diego to Vancouver, a legal itinerary, followed by by a cruise from Vancouver to Alaska to Los Angeles also a legal itinerary, the combined back-to-back itinerary of San Diego to LA would be illegal despite the individual cruises being legal.

[BaumD]

I still don't understand because we took a repo cruise last Fall from Boston and went to the caribbean and then ended in Miami. Why can't we go from Seattle to Vancouver, Canada and continue on to Victoria,Canada and Astoria, Oregon, San Francisco, and finish in LA?

 

I thought that some Alaska cruises start in Seattle and go to Canada before going to Alaska.

 

I am still confused. Perhaps I should read the regulations and then I will understand.

 

I looked at cruises that start in Boston and end at another US port and all of them stop in either Aruba, Curacao or Bonaire. Per the PVSA, the ABC islands are considered DISTANT foreign ports and thus this itinerary is permitted.

[Shmoo here]

I looked at cruises that start in Boston and end at another US port and all of them stop in either Aruba, Curacao or Bonaire. Per the PVSA, the ABC islands are considered DISTANT foreign ports and thus this itinerary is permitted.

 

Pretty sure the OP got this sorted out some time ago. Since the question was posted 7 years ago.

[Hlitner]

Although we are not an attorney we will clear up some misconceptions. The "Jones Act," also known as the "Merchant Marine Act of 1920" primarily applies to commercial cargo vessels...and not cruise ships. The PVSA (Passenger Vessel Sevices Act of 1886) is the federal legislation that has major impact on cruise ships. Why the PVSA is incorrectly called the "Jones Act" (even on Carnival Cruise lIne's own web site) is a mystery as the reference is apparently not accurate.

 

The PVSA is complicated with numerous exceptions which boggles the mind :). But apparently some foreign ports (such as Vancouver) as so close the USA that they are considered domestic ports for purposes of the PVSA. Go figure.

 

Hank

[njhorseman]

Although we are not an attorney we will clear up some misconceptions. The "Jones Act," also known as the "Merchant Marine Act of 1920" primarily applies to commercial cargo vessels...and not cruise ships. The PVSA (Passenger Vessel Sevices Act of 1886) is the federal legislation that has major impact on cruise ships. Why the PVSA is incorrectly called the "Jones Act" (even on Carnival Cruise lIne's own web site) is a mystery as the reference is apparently not accurate.

 

The PVSA is complicated with numerous exceptions which boggles the mind :). But apparently some foreign ports (such as Vancouver) as so close the USA that they are considered domestic ports for purposes of the PVSA. Go figure.

 

Hank

 

Vancouver and other ports are not considered or defined as domestic, they are defined as"nearby foreign ports", as opposed to "distant foreign ports".

 

Remember that nearby foreign ports do qualify foreign-flagged ships for legal closed loop cruises, while a call at a distant foreign port is required only for open jaw cruises beginning and ending in the US. I believe the reasoning is that closed loop cruises are not being used as transportation from one US city to another, but rather as vacation trips. Open jaw cruises can be used as transportation from Point A to Point B. My gut feeling is that the need to protect US interests when the PVSA was enacted stemmed from the common use of ships at that time for point-to-point transportation. Requiring a stop at a distant foreign port effectively prevented the foreign ships from being used for transportation. If a call at a nearby foreign port such as in Canada or the Bahamas had been allowed it might not have prevented the use of foreign ships for point to point transportation.

[GTVCRUISER]

Thank You , for this good information :)