Woman Attacked/Raped On Nieuw Amsterdam

I always use the deadbolt when I'm in the room alone. Hmmmm. Hopefully someone on this board can enlighten us whether the deadbolt hampers the use of the pass key.

Whether it does or does not, it would not have mattered in this case.

The man let himself in when no one was in the cabin and hid on the balcony.

You would have to be IN the cabin for the dead bolt to be of any use.

I agree with another poster. This is one of the most horrific things I have read.

Twenty one cruises aboard HAL, including many with our children who virtually mark their childhood by cruises and remember to this day the names of their favorite cabin steward - and one bad apple spoils the whole lot.

I do question whether crew these days are as satisfied with their lot on board as they were ... in particular, are they working under greater pressures than before? As more and more ships hire more and more crew, is the labor pool shrinking, leaving no option but to hire staff who once might have been passed over? Are there any systems on board to monitor the crews' moral and mental state? Being away from home, working unmentionable hours, could cause even the mildest mannered to snap.

I still love HAL, but I have found the crew less welcoming than a decade or more ago. Perhaps times have changed. I hope the passenger recovers, physically and mentally, and that justice is fair. Perhaps we should all be careful what we do and say to others.

The story is all over our news stations here.

 

Here is the crew member info:

http://sheriff.org/apps/arrest/details.cfm?id=EA80CCCE-6FA1-4FC4-99B1-8C957AC904E8&key=1A1F25AB5FCB0F82277BCA4B89727C30&page=1&lname=PUJAYASA&fname=

 

Interesting that the media gets slammed for being notorious in getting things wrong ... meanwhile, many on this site go on and on with speculations!

 

If it were not for the newspapers/media ... this story wouldn't be out there at all.

Including the poster who assured us in the first thread about this incident, which has since been deleted, that she had inside "information" from the ship that there had been no sexual assault.

This tragedy should remind us all that this can happen on any cruise line at any time and serve as a warning for all pax to be vigilant to their surroundings and be responsible for their own safety. What do we really know about the individual crew members and fellow pax that we are surrounded with in a closed environment 24/7? Nothing really. Because the crew is friendly, smiling, and seem happy and pax appear to be people just like us having a wonderful vacation is no assurance that there isn't a very sick or dangerous person among us no matter what ship or line we are on. I wouldn't hesitate to cruise again and will still have a great time, but sure will be more conscious of my surroundings, security, and safety.

One of the first things I thought of when this story broke was the many threads there have been about parents allowing their young children to sign themselves out of Club HAL and go wandering around the ship alone. I hope this incident will put an end to the ability to do this right now.

On almost every cruise ship, the deadbolt stops a magnetic master key.

A few Senior Officers and Security Officers carry metal master keys that can override a deadbolt in cases of emergency.

On my last cruise the morning of disembarkation the battery in the lock on my door died and I was locked out (with a HAL tour to catch soon). My steward said they would have to get the Captain or HM as they were the only ones with THE key so he called his Sup. no response in 25 minutes. I went to FD. The lady I spoke with (in a regular uniform- no braid) grabbed a metal key and escorted me back and unlocked the door. I saw no "check out" procedure.

Don't know hal's policy but I know on rccl if you have do not disturb tag in door, the room service or anyone else for that matter cannot knock, let alone enter the room. When we are in the room that sign is always in our door and sometimes we put it in even when we aren't there to deter staff from entering without permission. If we leave in am we ask steward to put it in our door when he is done. We have forgotton to take itbout after calling room service and embarassingly later call wondering where our food is, only to be reminded tag was in the door. ALWAYS use your deadbolt when in the room. I practce this same thing when in hotels and as soon as the room is cleaned the sign goes out.

My prayers go to this precious woman, that her physical wounds will heal but more importantly her emotional wounds will heal

Sent from my SCH-I915 using Forums mobile app

I don't see how that would help in this circumstance. He was going in to commit rape and murder... I don't think a breach of the protocol of removing the "Do Not Disturb" thingie from the door would have deterred him. He would have simply removed it, used the key card, and put it back in.

Nor would locking the balcony help. He access it from inside.

The fact is, we are on a ship, and many folks have access to the cabin. Because we all enjoy having our room stewards come in a and prepare the rooms, that is not going to change. If you think of how many "people days" (number of passengers on ships times the number of days per year) folks spend on ships, the probability of things like this happening are probably no more (and perhaps even less probable) than in our hometowns.

This is a horrific event. As a survivor of sexual assault I can relate to this woman, and the way this is going to change her life. I am troubled by those who suggest that she bears any responsibility because of her purported nudity (which, interestingly, the rapist never seemed to mention) or because she may have said something that was never spoken, or that he misunderstood, was maybe was even said specifically toward him. None of that justifies, or even explains, his behavior.

All of that said, while I agree that she *will* be financially compensated by the cruise line, unless the cruise line had some indication that he was prone to this type of behavior, I disagree that they are in any way responsible, and thus I don't see why folks would say she "should" get compensation. Compensation shouldn't occur just because a bad thing happens, but because the organization did something wrong. If there was no way of knowing that the crew member was at risk (and that is possible), I don't see where they did anything wrong. On the other hand, if they had indications that he was prone to this type of behavior, they need to both compensate her, and have punitive damages assessed.

Horrific. She has shown she is a fighter, and hopefully she will continue to be.

I'm sure a lawsuit against HAL will be coming. And I'm sure HAL will be looking into their guest security measures. Did this employee have a legitimate reason to have the key at all? Obviously since he was off duty, he should not have, but in part of his job, would he have one?

I'm not sure I totally believe his reason for the attack. He may believe what he is saying. He may have thought he heard her say that, but it could easily have been misheard or not even directed at him. Regardless, people will be rude to you and you need to be able to let it go. But again, not saying she was. Obviously he is the one with the issue.

I wonder how she managed to not be thrown overboard. Maybe he couldn't lift her or something.

<snip>

 

One of the first things I thought of when this story broke was the many threads there have been about parents allowing their young children to sign themselves out of Club HAL and go wandering around the ship alone. I hope this incident will put an end to the ability to do this right now.

Maybe it's because I don't usually follow threads about kids anymore' date=' but I can honestly say I have never seen a thread on this topic, ever. [/size']

I always use the deadbolt when I'm in the room alone. Hmmmm. Hopefully someone on this board can enlighten us whether the deadbolt hampers the use of the pass key.

Me too, and that was why I asked the question. But in later posts it was pointed out that she had been out for the evening and he got in then (so the deadbolt wasn't on because she was out). I missed that point at first. :)

I also always check to be sure the balcony door is locked when I turn in for the night, but even if she did this when returning to her cabin, he could have overpowered her and got into her cabin before she could lock it :(

Very sad!

I t makes one wonder if some of those passengers who have mysteriously disappeared and then deemed desperate souls were actually victims of a crime....beating /raping or in anyway accosting a passenger male or female within the confines of a ship (no where to flee) would certainly put a crew member or fellow passenger for that matter, in a great deal of jeopardy,perhaps silencing their victim permanently by using an ocean as an accomplice isn't so far fetched.

A rapist wants to show CONTROL over his (or her) victim. How the victim is chosen is completely unknown and in many cases just random.

In most cases, you are exactly right. In this case, however, we do know exactly why he chose her. Earlier, she called him a "son of a b!tch" and he took it literally...as an insult against his mother. He wanted to show control over her and make her pay for the insult.

On my last cruise the morning of disembarkation the battery in the lock on my door died and I was locked out (with a HAL tour to catch soon). My steward said they would have to get the Captain or HM as they were the only ones with THE key so he called his Sup. no response in 25 minutes. I went to FD. The lady I spoke with (in a regular uniform- no braid) grabbed a metal key and escorted me back and unlocked the door. I saw no "check out" procedure.

Interesting. I got locked in one time on the NCL Jade. The room key worked from the outside, but once inside I could not open the door to get out. The person who rescued me used a master key to open the door from the outside. Leaving the door open I was able to demonstrate that it was impossible to turn the door handle from the inside. A couple of carpenters were called to fix the problem.

Maybe it's because I don't usually follow threads about kids anymore, but I can honestly say I have never seen a thread on this topic, ever.

I don't recall threads with a specific subject line about kids being able to sign themselves out of Club HAL if that's what you mean, but the subject has certainly has come up in general Club HAL/kid threads. I was amazed that kids of a certain age were allowed to do that and that parents authorized it. I have never had my own kids on a HAL ship, so have no personal experience with Club HAL and no other way to know this was allowed unless I read it here. I think the age where parents can permit their children to sign themselves out is somewhere around 10 +/-. Certainly within the range of still being a child and not an older teen. Hopefully a Club HAL parent will come on and explain the system. I only know what I read here on CC.

There have been many comments by posters on these Club HAL/kid question threads that this could be a very dangerous practice. A child alone could be wandering down a cabin deck during the day when no one would be around to see who might come out of their cabin and see the child. I know I would never give my child permission to sign out and wander the ship, even if it was just to meet me at a certain time at a specific location, and other posters felt the same.

You people need to stop blaming the victim!

First of all nudists are not nude to be sexual. There are very strict rules about sex acts on a nude cruise. Go to their website and look it up for yourselves. They simply enjoy relaxing without clothing. They are of all shapes and sizes and ages. And even if this woman had invited this man into her room, and then decided she didn't want to have sex, he should have left.. but she didn't, she didn't do anything at all wrong. She was headed to bed when she was brutally attacked by a madman. A man who stalked her all day, a man who entered her cabin and waited for her. A man filled with so much violence and rage that he thought about hurting her all day long! I doubt she even said "Son of a Bitch", but even if she had.. that is no reason to rape a woman.

THERE IS NO REASON EVER TO RAPE A WOMAN!!! STOP BLAMING HER FOR HIS ACTS!!!

As I have stated before, Hal has no business contracting 'nude' cruises, trouble is coming anytime you have this with crews from other countries and religions, sorry...

I stopped reading at this post, so if somebody else has called you out on this and I missed it, sorry.

This post is utter bullsh*t. HAL can run any kind of cruise it wants to, and it has every right to expect it's crew (and passengers, for that matter) to act in a civilized manner. Crews for other countries and religions know damn well what they're getting in to when they sign up. Blaming HAL for this is absurd. The blame falls directly on the shoulders of this one criminal.

In most cases, you are exactly right. In this case, however, we do know exactly why he chose her. Earlier, she called him a "son of a b!tch" and he took it literally...as an insult against his mother. He wanted to show control over her and make her pay for the insult.

I think it important to note that it is not fact she called him a 'son of a bitch'. This alleged (:rolleyes:) violent, dangerous, rage filled violator ALLEGES she said those words but we don't know that as fact.

Until this man is tried and convicted by a judge/jury, I'll pay the law the respect of calling him alleged to have beaten, raped, assaulted and attempted to murder this woman the same as I say he alleges the victim spoke those words.

I think it important to note that it is not fact she called him a 'son of a bitch'. This alleged (:rolleyes:) violent, dangerous, rage filled violator ALLEGES she said those words but we don't know that as fact.

 

Until this man is tried and convicted by a judge/jury, I'll pay the law the respect of calling him alleged to have beaten, raped, assaulted and attempted to murder this woman the same as I say he alleges the victim spoke those words.

Except that he has admitted beating, raping and attempting to murder the woman, so I think "alleged" isn't really applicable, here. ;-)

It does apply to what he says the woman said, but I don't really think that has any relevance. If she had let out a string of curse words, directed at him, in front of 200 witnesses, I would still say that it wouldn't matter. The remedy for that insult is not what that man did.

Until this man is tried and convicted by a judge/jury, I'll pay the law the respect of calling him alleged to have beaten, raped, assaulted and attempted to murder this woman the same as I say he alleges the victim spoke those words.

Well he admitted it; so do you still want to extend the courtesy of giving this disgrace of a human the benefit of the doubt? :rolleyes: Once a criminal admits to their crimes the legal system only needs to define the sentence, not prove the crime. There's NO question he committed these acts.

In most cases, you are exactly right. In this case, however, we do know exactly why he chose her. Earlier, she called him a "son of a b!tch" and he took it literally...as an insult against his mother. He wanted to show control over her and make her pay for the insult.

That's what he CLAIMS triggered it, anyway. There's no evidence that her (alleged) use of the term had anything to do with him. Maybe she banged her shin on something going to answer the door. Maybe she couldn't find her bathrobe or coverup. Maybe she tripped over something.

Sail and Beagle, I understand the anonymity of the internet and the fact you probably have no idea what I do for a living, but I work in the business of cruise ship crime. A lot of what the media is now reporting is very accurate and the insults are pretty certain.

I stopped reading at this post, so if somebody else has called you out on this and I missed it, sorry.

 

This post is utter bullsh*t. HAL can run any kind of cruise it wants to, and it has every right to expect it's crew (and passengers, for that matter) to act in a civilized manner. Crews for other countries and religions know damn well what they're getting in to when they sign up. Blaming HAL for this is absurd. The blame falls directly on the shoulders of this one criminal.

Post 93........but no one has paid any attention to it.

Kate

CLUB HAL sign-out policy found with a google search. Note that it is standard policy beginning at age 8.

***Sign in/out policy for Tweens 8‐12 years of age***

Tweens are free to sign themselves in/out of Club HAL. They must note their time of

departure and their next location. If parents/guardians do not feel comfortable allowing

their child to sign themselves in and out of Club HAL, they can decline authorization.

She (the victim) has 0% blame for the incident. She is to be commended for fighting off the attacker the best she could; it undoubtedly saved her life. That facts are the attacker stalked her and was waiting in ambush on her balcony for her to return to her room. This incident had nothing to do with any language misrepresentation, the fact that it was a nude cruise, and/or what the woman might have been or have not been wearing. This could have happened on any cruise, on any ship, and on any cruise line. Sadly it (attack/rape/attempted murder) also could have happened to any of us in our own home.

 

There are sick people out there that will do very bad things. It's too bad employers can't screen out those people and not hire them; but realistically that isn't always possible unless their is something obvious like some prior criminal record. Heck, I worked for the Department of Defense for over 32 years, one day at the base that I worked at a (apparently disgruntled) employee came to work shot his supervisor and then shot himself. You just never know when a seemingly sane individual will go "over the edge" and commit some violent act.

Very well stated.

CLUB HAL sign-out policy found with a google search. Note that it is standard policy beginning at age 8.

 

 

***Sign in/out policy for Tweens 8‐12 years of age***

Tweens are free to sign themselves in/out of Club HAL. They must note their time of

departure and their next location. If parents/guardians do not feel comfortable allowing

their child to sign themselves in and out of Club HAL' date=' they can decline authorization.[/quote']

 

We're taking our 11-year old daughter on the Westerdam next month. This will be the first cruise where we will allow her to check herself in and out. She's a cruise veteran by now, and will have little problem navigating her way around the ship. We also don't want her to be restricted by having a friend in Club HAL be able to leave while she has to wait for us. At some point, you have to start to let loose. That's particularly hard for parents of an only-child.

We're taking our 11-year old daughter on the Westerdam next month. This will be the first cruise where we will allow her to check herself in and out. She's a cruise veteran by now, and will have little problem navigating her way around the ship. We also don't want her to be restricted by having a friend in Club HAL be able to leave while she has to wait for us. At some point, you have to start to let loose. That's particularly hard for parents of an only-child.

Only the parents know which child they feel mature and capable enough to permit certain liberties and privileges. You hope they have learned the lessons you have worked hard to teach them and you can't cripple them with fear. While everyone wants all to be safe and free from violence and crime, living is a risk. We have to learn how to best navigate in the world and try to not invite violence upon ourselves but there is only so much we can do.

Parents/guardians of minors are best equipped to make the choices/decisions best for their child.

Twenty one cruises aboard HAL, including many with our children who virtually mark their childhood by cruises and remember to this day the names of their favorite cabin steward - and one bad apple spoils the whole lot.

 

I do question whether crew these days are as satisfied with their lot on board as they were ... in particular, are they working under greater pressures than before? As more and more ships hire more and more crew, is the labor pool shrinking, leaving no option but to hire staff who once might have been passed over? Are there any systems on board to monitor the crews' moral and mental state? Being away from home, working unmentionable hours, could cause even the mildest mannered to snap.

 

I still love HAL, but I have found the crew less welcoming than a decade or more ago. Perhaps times have changed. I hope the passenger recovers, physically and mentally, and that justice is fair. Perhaps we should all be careful what we do and say to others.

First, there is absolutely no excuse except massive flaw in character and a desire to commit a heinous sin on the part of this room service steward. That poor woman will suffer with PTSD and as others have said, wish for her speedy recovery and the best mental health service available to her.

That being said, we just returned from the Eurodam (will submit review soon). HAL has so many positives, but they did indeed cut staff on this back to back Caribbean cruise.

Our room steward one day looked ill or exhausted. Throughout, he seemed to appear very tired. After 17 cruises I could easily spot that the staff, with the exception of bar staff, and private restaurants, did not seem in good spirits.

The shortage of staff was evident in the Lido, and even in the fact that our room steward was not seen much for the first week (though he serviced our room).

Upset and tired staff, and/or angry passengers is a bad mix. In particular there are unstable pax (seen and heard them) as well as unstable staff that lurk. Again, this woman was the victim of a HAL staff member. But we also must be aware, too, that even among fellow pax, there can be an unstable one.

I encountered one passenger on this past trip who gave me the awful creeps with his body language and behavior. Not sure what his issues were. (Ft. Lauderdale, airboat excursion and one morning in the Main Dining Room).

Again, no blame whatsoever on this poor victim. But HAL did say they were looking into ways to prevent such a thing ever happening again. And of course that means starting with stricter security measures. However, a predator can and will always find a way to their prey....HAL and other cruise lines needs to make that path far more difficult.