Opinion---Dogs on Board?

There is a Pinnacle couple with a "service dog":rolleyes::rolleyes:.............saw them in the CL on the BR..........dog was sniffing at everyone as they walked in.After awhile,the man took the dog out............came back without it........said he left it in the cabin.How is that being a helpful service dog??

It's a shame that the crew/staff know it's a sham but just have to smile and dote over it.

I have seen dogs several times at the airport as well. I talked to a guy at a store who had his "support dog" with him and he told me there are online websites where you can buy the required documents. So it is really difficult to know if the dogs you saw were legitimate support animals.

 

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So sad. Too bad any document is not required to have an official raised seal, like birth certificates, or some type of water mark that cannot be counterfeited and issued by the proper agency to be accepted by the cruise lines. I'm sure that those legitimately needing documentation would not have a problem producing the proper one.

I have a friend that has a handicapped parking sticker to park close to a store's entrance yet I can find her walking all around a mega store.:rolleyes:

emotional support dogs? give me a break. What a con this lady pulled to keep her pets with her. SMH

I have a friend that has a handicapped parking sticker to park close to a store's entrance yet I can find her walking all around a mega store.:rolleyes:

People have been taking advantage of handicapped stickers for years. In the early '80s I worked for a boss who would play racquetball three times a week with a supervisor in another department. That other super would drive up in his big raised Bronco, with it's large tires and souped up engine. He would park in the closest handicapped spot he could find. He claims he was a wounded war vet, and had handicapped plates on his car to "prove" it. Yet, he seemed to be perfectly well enough to play racquetball several times per week with my boss.

I also worked for another supervisor who had contracted polio when he was a child and one of his arms was completely limp and useless, and he needed a leg brace to walk with difficulty. He didn't have a handicapped sticker, and never parked close to the front door. His attitude was certainly refreshing. He would say that he parked far out in the lot because by doing so he was reminded how fortunate he was to be able to walk at all. He refused to accept that he was handicapped.

You can probably guess which supervisor I respected and which one I had absolutely no respect for.

The cruiselines hands are pretty much tied because of ADA laws and some people take advantage of this by taking their pets on board. :mad:

 

I am clearly NOT saying that is the case that you witnessed but as a paraplegic and service dog owner, it upsets me when people take advantage of the system. There has been more than one debate here about this in the past.

 

Anyone here remember the long thread about Ralphie?

I remember that thread well.

All the folks that made the distinction between service animals and companion animals are correct. The former must be accommodated, but not the latter. Just because someone claims their animal is a service animal doesn't tie the hands of the business. They don't need to just blindly accept the assertion.

Under ADA, there are two permissible questions that may be asked when it is not readily apparent what service the dog provides. In the case of a guide dog or a dog pulling a wheelchair, it's readily apparent, so don't ask. But a dog on a regular leash or in a shopping cart . The business gets to ask 1- Is the animal required because of a disability? And 2- What work or task has the animal been trained to perform?

The service animal must also be housebroken and kept under control regardless of the service it provides. If the animal isn't, then it can be required to leave. Case law is clear that businesses can exclude animals that don't meet these tests. Admittedly, that is difficult one to implement on a cruise.

Really, I think it comes down to cruise lines not wanting to be bothered with keeping the, what they consider, few cheaters off. Cruise lines are not the only public accommodation that avoids confronting those who fraudulently claim that their animal is a service animal.

...service dogs for an emotional condition...

OP, where did you get the info from? Did they say anything more than that?

Many people are jumping to the dog being an "emotional support dog" but those aren't the words you used. It could have been far more than that. Was this directly from the passenger, or third/fourth/more-hand?

Also, it might not have been the whole story. Because it's not our business, the person might not have felt like sharing their entire medical history with the person that got the above info. Might have been brushing the person off. If it wasn't straight from the person, it could have been misunderstood on different ends of the story. etc.

Why people have to bring dogs along that you can bet your bottom dollar are no kind of service dog is beyond me.

There is no one kind of dog that is a service dog.

Our minds make us think of shepherds and labs, because that's what we saw on Sesame Street as kids. Seeing Eye dog is one sort of dog according to the shows, and that's what we expect to see.

But a service dog can be ANY sort of dog.

And there is NO vest that is required in any way, shape, or form. It's useful to keep peoples' mitts off the dogs, but it's not required.

The cruiselines, as far as I know, require documentation. Other places don't. Normal citizens do not have the right to question it. We should just assume that the cruiseline's rules were satisfied and move on.

The only thing that's going to ruin it for people with Service Dogs are the people like are on this thread complaining about dogs they THINK aren't legitimate service dogs. That sort of complaint starts going higher and higher until someone decides something has to be done.

I don't want something to be done. It's NOT my business. I choose to live life looking at dogs like this and thinking "wow, that must be a working dog, I'm glad that person found that dog for whatever is going on with them" and then I go on with my day, happy for that person.

If someday I need a Service Dog for something, I don't want to jump through 18 different hoops to get one. If I need one and find one that's perfect for my needs, I don't want to have to wait to go in public until he is absolutely totally perfect for other peoples' wants. A seizure alert dog simply doesn't have to be as perfect as a Seeing Eye dog.

But let's be clear. A trained dog that is used to detect epilepsy, seizures, blood sugar and other medical needs are not yappy little lap dogs that misbehave. Or sit at the table or on Mommy's lap.

Of course it could be.

A dog that has shown itself to be good at detecting blood sugar drops or rises, or a seizure coming on, could be a teacup poodle or a chihuahua. It could be a Great Dane. It could very well be yippy or annoying. It might not be the most perfectly behaved dog ever. The owners might be trying to help it get better. In the meantime, they kind of have to take that dog with them, if they have such a big problem that normal testing doesn't help 100%, and that dog does.

And all of this, with me, started when I lived above a woman who absolutely positively WAS scamming the situation. Got her otherwise disallowed breed into the apartment complex by saying Service Dog. Went too far, however, and said "for my seizures". The issue? She never EVER went anywhere with them (first one dog then she got another). Left them in the care of the boyfriend of the month and her 4 year old daughter. The daughter liked to open their apartment door randomly and stand there with the dog(s).

We lived above them. I had an infant and a major iron level problem and couldn't move fast. I slowly stopped going out because I was so afraid.

The female dog was territorial over the entire building. The building belonged to her and her "family" and everyone else was an intruder. The boyfriends couldn't control her. The female dog kept my big strong husband in his car twice; wouldn't let him out.

Service Dogs (or fake ones) are treated like humans. Once there's enough complaints about a particular human in a store or restaurant or apartment complex, that human can be evicted. Same with Service Dogs. Our management wanted us to document every moment like this. After a year the dog was still there and I was done. So we moved.

Took another year or two to finally get enough documentation to evict the dog. The owners went with it. Oh and by that time it was TWO "Service Dogs". That weren't. That never went anywhere with the human with the seizures.

And yet after all that? I have no need for any more documentation, proof, or hoops for those with legitimate needs, who aren't just doing it to get their otherwise not allowed dogs into an apartment. There were things to be done to get that dog out, and eventually those things were done. Simple. Keep it to the one dog causing the problem instead of making it a federal issue and an assumption about other dogs.

No judgment here whatsoever and only reporting the objective facts, as I am not qualified (unless the animal is clearly identified as such) to confirm if a given dog is a service animal or not, but there was a lady with her little lap dog sitting next to us on a recliner poolside on Oasis in 2012.

A lot of interesting comments here, along with a TON of ignorance.

Sometimes a little education goes a long way. Have a read:

http://www.vetshelpingheroes.org/about

I know the founder and several board members as they are based here in Florida. Frankly, I prefer their dogs to many humans! :cool:

I want to clarify a few things.

The ADA is very clear. Only dogs are considered service animals (not monkeys, ponies, pigs, cats, snakes, or any other critter)and a dog needs to perform a specific task or group of tasks directly related to the owners disability or condition to be considered a service animal. A task is a physical activity. It can be opening a door, turning on a light, retrieving a dropped item, performing some special motion to alert of an oncoming seizure, or alerting to a doorbell/fire alarm/telephone ring/etc. to a hearing impaired person. This is of course not to be considered the entire list. There are hundreds of different tasks a dog can be trained to perform, they would vary by the disability or condition.

Calming a person with social anxieties is not considered a task. These are NOT service dogs. They are at best therapy dogs but in reality, therapy dogs are companion animals who have been tested to be particularly calm, well behaved, and not fearful of strangers or strange surroundings. There is no special training a therapy dogs receives, only a test to make sure they will behave in an appropriate manner. They are not covered under the ADA. They are pets.

Any business or organization has the right to limit or grant access to pets as long as they abide by local health codes. They do not have the right to limit access to service dogs--unless the dog or it's owner would be at risk if the dog was allowed to accompany the owner--examples of that might be that the owner was getting an MRI, the owner was going on a thrill ride at an amusement park, etc.

Technically, the cruise lines do not need to allow companion animals on board. If the line visits US ports (including the USVI, PR, and Guam) it must abide by the ADA and make reasonable accommodation for service dogs--provided the dog has any required health papers/shots. They need to require a place for the dog to toilet and allow the dog into all public areas on the ship--including the infirmary and dining rooms. They don't need to provide items such as bowls, beds, and dog food.

The disabled person does need to advise the cruise line in advance that the dog will be accompanying them, and the cruise line has every right to ask what specific task(s) the dog performs. They may not ask what the disability is. If the dog doesn't perform tasks but just calms, the cruise line has every right to deny boarding, as under the Federal law, this is not a service dog as qualified by the ADA.

I hope this clears up any confusion.

Now onto my personal opinion. I fully support the presence of service dogs who allow their owners the opportunity to live a fuller, richer life. I do not support the presence of companion animals, regardless of how they make someone feel. This is a slippery slope, and if they allow one, they need to allow the next. They are legally classified as pets, and if one person can bring their pet aboard, why can't the other?

A few years ago we were on a RCI cruise with a lady that had a small dog she took everywhere in a stroller. She told other passengers that the dog was a "service dog" although she never explained how or why. A few days into the cruise we met this ladies sister, who was also on the same cruise. She told everyone within earshot that her sister was a "nut case" and would not go anywhere without that dog...but it was no service dog. This was just a lady who loved her dog and would not go anywhere without her companion. The sad thing about all this is that it can create problems for folks that have genuine Service Dogs, for which they have a specific need. It is almost like "crying dog" (instead of wolf) and undermines the accommodation that should (and must) be granted to real service dogs.

Hank

Guide dogs, hearing dogs fine. Pet pooches, no.

I don't really want to stay in a doggy hotel !

I agree.

I just took a look at Royal's website under Accessibility and copied some of the following information:

Royal Caribbean International welcomes service dogs on all ships.* Please note we do not accept pets.

A service dog is defined as "any dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of a person with a disability." Service dogs are not considered pets.

If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc.

If you have an animal that does not meet the definition of a service animal (i.e. a dog trained to perform a task) but must accompany you in order to assist you with your disability, please contact our Access Department at least 60 days prior to sailing

Of course CC is where we can freely share our thoughts and ideas and it's always interesting to read everyone's opinions. Whether it's a tiny Fifi or a large Bruiser - an official service animal or "questionable" companion - ultimately it's the cruise line who makes the decision about allowing someone to bring their animal and making sure their rules are followed. Maybe we should just let it be and quit complaining about passengers that are allowed by RCCL to bring their animal on board - it's really none of our business, whether the need appears to be real or not - it's RCCL's policy.

 

 

Of course CC is where we can freely share our thoughts and ideas...Maybe we should just let it be and quit complaining about passengers that are allowed by RCCL to bring their animal on board - it's really none of our business, whether the need appears to be real or not - it's RCCL's policy.

If the sharing of opinions bothers you, don't participate in a thread openly soliciting opinions.

I think most people have no issue at all with trained service animals. They are a protected class of animals and their owners have every right to bring their animals onboard. NO ONE is complaining about that group.

If you're pushing a poodle in a stroller chances are that is not a service dog and as such does not belong on the cruise. As a full fare paying guest I have every right to voice my opinion. I too do not wish to vacation in a dog hotel any more than is necessary and that means limiting it to those with trained service animals and a verifiable need.

If the sharing of opinions bothers you, don't participate in a thread openly soliciting opinions.

 

I think most people have no issue at all with trained service animals. They are a protected class of animals and their owners have every right to bring their animals onboard. NO ONE is complaining about that group.

 

If you're pushing a poodle in a stroller chances are that is not a service dog and as such does not belong on the cruise. As a full fare paying guest I have every right to voice my opinion. I too do not wish to vacation in a dog hotel any more than is necessary and that means limiting it to those with trained service animals and a verifiable need.

There's no "chances are" about it. It is not a service dog if it is riding in a stroller.

Nothing wrong with service dogs on board.Service dogs come in all types.

Who are we to judge????

:cj

A dog that craps in a public area and an owner who makes no attempt to rectify the situation is abusing the system. If I step in it, I have no problem being judgmental.

Now onto my personal opinion. I fully support the presence of service dogs who allow their owners the opportunity to live a fuller, richer life. I do not support the presence of companion animals, regardless of how they make someone feel. This is a slippery slope, and if they allow one, they need to allow the next. They are legally classified as pets, and if one person can bring their pet aboard, why can't the other?

Very well said!

My dog provides emotional support to me. He is a rescued dog but, he really rescued me.

He is a working dog and extremely well behaved. As a matter of fact, as a Therapy Dog (Therapy Dogs, Inc.) he also provides a lot of emotional support to the patients he visits at our large, tertiary hospital here in Maine. We went through extensive training to provide this voluntary service which is very well regulated by the hospital, the Joint Commission and Therapy Dogs, Inc.. People can and do derive emotional support from dogs and other animals.

But, would I take him on a cruise? Absolutely not!

Do I miss him like crazy when I am away? Absolutely!

And, I think that people who fake and cheat because they can't live without their pooch are lower than low.

This is a huge and growing problem that is getting out of hand.

BTW, my guy is a 164 pound Great Dane and the sweetest dog in the world. But, no cruises for him, although, I do think he'd like sitting out on our balcony.:)

There's no "chances are" about it. It is not a service dog if it is riding in a stroller.

Right. The dog has a "service human" in that case. I wonder if that qualifies? ;)

I know of someone who started taking their dog onboard to avoid having to kennel their dog.Got some of those fake IDs available online.

If the sharing of opinions bothers you, don't participate in a thread openly soliciting opinions.

 

I think most people have no issue at all with trained service animals. They are a protected class of animals and their owners have every right to bring their animals on board. NO ONE is complaining about that group.

 

If you're pushing a poodle in a stroller chances are that is not a service dog and as such does not belong on the cruise. As a full fare paying guest I have every right to voice my opinion. I too do not wish to vacation in a dog hotel any more than is necessary and that means limiting it to those with trained service animals and a verifiable need.

"Sharing of opinions doesn't bother me one bit" that's what I love about Cruise Critic! I also totally agree about having no issue with officially trained service animals. There will always be those folks that will try to cheat the system and that's so wrong, but there are also those that have a valid reason to bring their emotional support dogs.

I guess my feathers are a bit ruffled (I am strong and can take negative comments), but you all should see both sides of every issue. Yes, my 90 year old mother is one of those that has a pink dog stroller that she pushes her 5 lb Yorkie in (just as sturdy as a walker). They look forward to their after dinner walks. Mom also has extreme anxiety and a strong emotional attachment to her dog and usually chooses to stay home if the dog can't come along. It's so amazing to see how calm Mom becomes with her dog in her arms or nearby!

Would we personally take the dog on a cruise or somewhere she is not welcomed - no way!! Would we want her in a cabin or hotel room where the next person might have an allergic reaction - never!! Would we ever walk away and ignore an accident - no - that's gross! Would we allow her to disturb others - another no.

So on our next cruise with mom the dog goes to her granddaughters house and mom will suffer emotionally for the week (anxiety meds are too dangerous for her) - HAL, unlike RCCL, doesn't allow emotional support dogs. This most likely will be mom's last cruise - something that she has always enjoyed - she really loves room service on her balcony. lol

Sorry to ramble on and on - but I just wanted to make my point that if RCCL allows emotional support animals on board as well as service animals then it's their call. Of course we can state our opinions here on Cruise Critic - that's what our open forum is all about.

One last thought - do you folks that are so against emotional support animals feel the same - be it a little old lady with a fluffy dog in a pink stroller - or one of our heroes that have been wounded and need a support animal for their PTSD? I welcome your feedback.

If an emotional support dog is trained to the same degree as a service dog regarding its behaviour in public then, personally, I would have no objection to it.

However if someone is allowed to bring a dog that is noisy, unruly, or threatening, that is not toilet-trained, and who is allowed to eat in the dining rooms, then I would be making a complaint and would not cruise with that cruise line again.

Its none of our business:rolleyes:

I agree. It is up to the cruise lines, but it is none of my business.

There are motels for dogs.

If owners of dogs who are truly not service animals want a vacation, then they should select an appropriate dog motel for their cozy vacation. Not any ship that I happen to be on.

We feel the same way about any pets in the cabin of an airplane.