HAL Charter - but HAL still selling the cruise?

After reading the April Update on charters and drydocks, and noticing that a 650 person group would now be on my Jan 54, 2015 NA cruise, I decided to switch to another cruise around those same dates. I found the Eurodam Jan 4 - 18, 2015 14 days cruise (on the HAL website) that seemed like it would work. It's really two 7 days put together but sold as one cruise.

 

I then rechecked the HAL Charter thread, and much to my surprise find this:

"Eurodam : 11 January 2015 - 18 January 2015: Smooth Jazz charter

Eurodam : 18 January 2015 - 25 January 2015 : Country Music Cruise Charter - ECP Cruises."

 

So HAL is still selling this cruise even though it's a charter? I'm pretty unhappy with HAL right now.

Strange that HAL would be selling, and I assume, accepting payments for a sold out charter. I checked the Smooth Jazz Cruise for Jan 11th here http://www.thesmoothjazzcruise.com/2015/Cruise-Info/Ship-Info and it is indeed sold out. Sometimes charters get cancelled, but there doesn't appear to be any risk of that happening with this one.

I am uncertain how these types of mix ups happen. Jan 11, 2015, Jan 18, 2015 and Jan 25, 2015 are total ship charters. Indeed the Smooth Jazz Cruise was completely sold out 1 year prior to sailing. The Country Music Cruise Jan 18 and the Jazz Cruise Jan 25 are still available if you are interested in these music genres. The booking is done through the charter production company not HAL.

If it is selling to the public on HAL, thru TAs, etc, it is not a Charter. It is a group.

 

Charters can usually only be booked thru the group doing the charter, and is not available to the general public. However, in a few rare cases, if the Chartering people can't sell the ship out to their particular crowd, the Chartering people might release some cabins to the general public. I would think this would be late in the process.

Edited April 2, 2014 by CruiserBruce

I just want the NA and the Eurodam to be large group free when I travel. I called the Smooth Jazz folks - it is indeed a full ship charter from Jan 11-25. But HAL - on their website - has both the 7 day for those dates and the 14 day including those dates - still for sale.

 

I knew there was a reason why I stuck with 11 day or longer cruises. And no more of these B2Bs.

We've placed deposits on charters. The HAL website was still listing them for sale. Sometimes it can take up to a month before the sailing disappears from the HAL inventory.

Perhaps these large groups just have a commitment for so many cabins--but not the entire ship--so the charter/special group may be sold out, but not the cruise.

 

We sailed with a Quincenera (sp?) group--probably 10 or more girls and their entourage -- not really a problem except that they had a private photographer, so there would be lots of venues with the girls and friends standing around waiting for their pictures to be taken.

Perhaps these large groups just have a commitment for so many cabins--but not the entire ship--so the charter/special group may be sold out, but not the cruise.

 

The MercyMe group on the NA (my 14 day cruise) has a commitment for 650 people. That's when I started to look at other Caribbean cruises around the same time period and discovered the Eurodam 14 day cruise - the second 1/2 of which is a FULL CHARTER according to the group, and is sold out. So why is HAL continuing to list it as an available cruise?

Almost all of those music theme cruises are charters.

Eurodam is very popular with charters. I believe the Malt Shop Memories cruise is also on Eurdoam around the same time.

 

They pretty much take over the entire ship with their activities, concerts, meet and greets, etc.

 

So HAL is still selling this cruise even though it's a charter? I'm pretty unhappy with HAL right now.

 

Ran into similar problem on a cruise I had booked on Eurodam for 1 Mar 2015.

 

Charter group website said full charter but I had a valid reservation, not on charter. Evidently, this charter group prefers Eurodam since all their charters are on that ship. HAL was also selling cabins on that cruise. I never found out what was going on but did not want to chance getting bumped later or being one of a few non-charters on a chartered cruise. So I cancelled and rebooked for NA.

That's when I started to look at other Caribbean cruises around the same time period and discovered the Eurodam 14 day cruise - the second 1/2 of which is a FULL CHARTER according to the group, and is sold out. So why is HAL continuing to list it as an available cruise?

Ran into similar problem on a cruise I had booked on Eurodam for 1 Mar 2015.

 

Charter group website said full charter but I had a valid reservation, not on charter. Evidently, this charter group prefers Eurodam since all their charters are on that ship. HAL was also selling cabins on that cruise. I never found out what was going on but did not want to chance getting bumped later or being one of a few non-charters on a chartered cruise. So I cancelled and rebooked for NA.

HAL routinely does this after the charterer has itself started marketing the cruise. My personal supposition is that it's dependent on some provision in the charterparty (contract). For example, the charterer may not be contractually bound to take the ship until a particular date, or it may have some other basis for cancelling - and that HAL will not take the ship off sale until the charterer becomes definitively contractually bound to take the ship. Alternatively, it may be that HAL will not take the ship off sale until payments by the charterer for the ship have reached a particular level or value, in case the charterer then defaults or cancels.

 

The following cruises listed in the charters thread are definitely full charters. They are all run by the same company (ECP), and full charter is its business model:-

• Eurodam : 02 November 2014 - 09 November 2014 : Malt Shop Memories Cruise
• Eurodam : 11 January 2015 - 18 January 2015 : The Smooth Jazz Cruise (2015 first sailing)
• Eurodam : 18 January 2015 - 25 January 2015 : Country Music Cruise
• Eurodam : 25 January 2015 - 01 February 2015 : The Jazz Cruise
• Eurodam : 22 February - 01 March 2015 : Soul Train Cruise
• Eurodam : 01 March - 08 March 2015 : The Smooth Jazz Cruise (2015 second sailing)

I would not expect The Jazz Cruise or either sailing of The Smooth Jazz Cruise to be cancelled by the charterer. Historically, these have always sold out (and sometimes pretty quickly in the case of The Smooth Jazz Cruise). And I don't myself remember any other planned ECP full charter having been cancelled after it was started being marketed by ECP.

 

If you book on one of these cruises before HAL takes it off sale, you will get bumped later when it is taken off sale (as HAL is contractually entitled to do). This is one of the reasons why the charter thread is so useful, and why we should be grateful to CJcruzer (and English_in_Spain before her) for maintaining the list - you can see in advance that this might happen, and book a different cruise to begin with.

HAL routinely does this after the charterer has itself started marketing the cruise. My personal supposition is that it's dependent on some provision in the charterparty (contract). For example, the charterer may not be contractually bound to take the ship until a particular date, or it may have some other basis for cancelling - and that HAL will not take the ship off sale until the charterer becomes definitively contractually bound to take the ship. Alternatively, it may be that HAL will not take the ship off sale until payments by the charterer for the ship have reached a particular level or value, in case the charterer then defaults or cancels.

From what I have read on this board over the years, I believe what Globaliser has posted is spot-on. Unless and until the charter company is locked in, HAL will continue to sell the cruise.

Edited April 3, 2014 by RuthC

Apparently - at least for the Jan 11-18 Smooth Jazz cruise - if you try to book through a TA or with HAL - you're able to book but then are told several days later that your booking has been cancelled.

HAL routinely does this after the charterer has itself started marketing the cruise. My personal supposition is that it's dependent on some provision in the charterparty (contract). For example, the charterer may not be contractually bound to take the ship until a particular date, or it may have some other basis for cancelling - and that HAL will not take the ship off sale until the charterer becomes definitively contractually bound to take the ship. Alternatively, it may be that HAL will not take the ship off sale until payments by the charterer for the ship have reached a particular level or value, in case the charterer then defaults or cancels.

 

 

If you book on one of these cruises before HAL takes it off sale, you will get bumped later when it is taken off sale (as HAL is contractually entitled to do). This is one of the reasons why the charter thread is so useful, and why we should be grateful to CJcruzer (and English_in_Spain before her) for maintaining the list - you can see in advance that this might happen, and book a different cruise to begin with.

 

I'm new at this cruising business but this explanation matches what I thought was happening. I figured that the charterer had a contingent contract with HAL and that the charterer and HAL would do fine but I'd get screwed. I did not want to risk a cancellation and have to accept what cabins were available so I cancelled. And, since this charterer seems to prefer to do business on Eurodam, I will not book that ship again.

 

I am very grateful to those maintaining the charter thread and have complimented them for doing so.

I wouldn't necessarily cut out the Eurodam from the HAL ships to sail - just make sure that your cruise is longer than 7 days - and if it's a supposedly 14 day cruise make sure it's not really a B2B of two 7 day cruises.

 

I'm going back to booking only longer cruises. This process was just too irritating.

I wouldn't necessarily cut out the Eurodam from the HAL ships to sail - just make sure that your cruise is longer than 7 days - and if it's a supposedly 14 day cruise make sure it's not really a B2B of two 7 day cruises.

 

I'm going back to booking only longer cruises. This process was just too irritating.

 

I can't do more than seven days (dogs). But that's OK. Not much difference between EU and NA. Problem solved.

And, since this charterer seems to prefer to do business on Eurodam, I will not book that ship again.

But there are two problems with this.

 

The first is that this problem can happen with any charterer of any ship. ECP's charters aren't the only ones that aren't taken off sale immediately that the charterer starts marketing the cruise itself. And CC is replete with complaints from people who've been bumped off their confirmed cruises when the cruise is taken off sale because of a charter - that's one of the reasons that the charter thread was started in the first place. You can see from the charters thread that many of HAL's ships go out on charter. So avoiding Eurodam doesn't do much to solve the problem.

 

The other is that ECP has only just started using Eurodam this year. The company started with Maasdam in 2001 and has moved up through the ship sizes through the years. Having just moved again to a new ship, it's still ironing out the bugs in its onboard plans from current experience. So although it's taking Eurodam for a number of weeks over the next 12 months, you can't know whether it will stick with Eurodam or move again to another ship after that. When plans are announced, hopefully they'll appear on the charters thread pretty quickly. But if you decide to avoid Eurodam just as a matter of principle, you could find yourself being bumped again because ECP takes the ship that you've booked on instead of Eurodam.

Friends and I have changed are plans due to a group on the original cruise we planned after we saw it on the thread. While I don't worry about the usual religious feelings of the people, I do not want to be on a very well subscribed cruise with a group of Mormons, so we switched. That being said we were on a river cruise with a travel agency family -mormon - who were great -- we swapped bottled water for wine.

Globaliser,

 

I really don't see a problem. Obviously, ECP can book any ship they want but now them seem to prefer ED. NA and ED are indistinguishable to me and I can pick the time I wish to cruise. Once ECP works out how to deal with a specific ship, they will likely stick with that ship. As long as they book ED, I will book NA. ECP changes, I will adapt.

 

BTW, I understand the need to diligently check the monthly charter thread.

I really don't see a problem. Obviously, ECP can book any ship they want but now them seem to prefer ED. NA and ED are indistinguishable to me and I can pick the time I wish to cruise. Once ECP works out how to deal with a specific ship, they will likely stick with that ship. As long as they book ED, I will book NA. ECP changes, I will adapt.

Sure, just as long as you (or anyone else!) don't think that a policy of not booking Eurodam is always going to avoid the problem of getting bumped by HAL when a cruise that you've booked is later taken off sale because the ship's going out on a charter. That can only safely be said of Eurodam and ECP over the next 12 months, for which the information is already set out in the charters thread. Edited April 4, 2014 by Globaliser

ECP and other established music promoters charter the entire ship (i.e. Eurodam) and it is taken out of HAL website inventory...if you book thru an outside source (i.e.TA or wholesale) that has limited access to HAL's inventory...it will :eek:bounce back:eek:in about 72 hours and you will be contacted to arrange alternative cruises...for operational logistic purposes, promoters will stick with either the same ship, or the same fleet type

 

Depending upon the type of contracted signed...if a full charter is not selling out, the promoter will either cancel the charter (with a huge penalty and loss of deposit) within 90-120 days before sailing..do a fire sale thru their website and tightly control by the promoter...but no established music promoter who expects to be in business next year, would release unsold cabins back to the cruiseline for general sales within 120 days of sailing...for obvious reasons

 

Charters cancel all the time and cruise lines have plans in place to sell the cabins with special deals..the operating cost are covered thru penalties in the contract and loss of deposit, so they still make a profit

 

Charters are very lucrative for the cruiselines and cruiselines compete with established promoters to get their business...MSC is trying to become a player in the music charter business which means promoters will switch to another cruiseline for the right deal...Jazz fans are loyal to the promoter, not the cruiseline

better check twice to make sure it is not a nude cruise group.

I am now totally annoyed with HAL after booking two cruises in a row and finding out later from CC that large groups were also booked on the same cruise. Of course, the TA or HAL will not tell you that one-third of passengers of a ship are a group. On a large ship with many public venues, a group of 650 passengers may not be intrusive, but on a 2,000 pax ship, you definitely notice it. Perhaps HAL has found that they make more money with these groups. Why don't they just designate one ship for larger groups. Goodbye HAL, I've really enjoyed sailing with you but ...

I did cancel the cruise with the 650 passenger group on it. I tried to find another HAL cruise in the same time frame - but those cruises were the ones that were full charters but still showing up as available to book for all passengers. So I booked an 11 day Celebrity cruise instead.

 

While I will still cruise on HAL, I'll make sure that the cruise is at least 10 days long and no B2Bs. And check the HAL charter and group list before I book!

I did cancel the cruise with the 650 passenger group on it. I tried to find another HAL cruise in the same time frame - but those cruises were the ones that were full charters but still showing up as available to book for all passengers. So I booked an 11 day Celebrity cruise instead.

 

While I will still cruise on HAL, I'll make sure that the cruise is at least 10 days long and no B2Bs. And check the HAL charter and group list before I book!

I am looking at the Equinox on January 12. A bit steep for a single but I've heard nothing but great things about the ship.

Unfortunately, there are very few "real" 14-day cruises out there. Most of them are BTB.