What ship will eventually replace Majesty?

Better to send Enchantment to Miami and a Voyager class ship to Port Canaveral.:)

Better for what reason? (1) in this case it won't be for overall cruiser capacity. It basically is a 'push' when it comes to overall capacity. Yes -- it does have balcony cabins that are not JS, which will give them better revenue generator potential for fares.

another way to look at it:

(2) it won't be for increasing overall capacity for cruisers fleetwide. What I have read about Enchantment here on CC is that the ship has difficulty sailing full each cruise. If the theory is that it may sail full on the 3/4 day itineraries from Miami, then you may be putting a larger ship in PC, that won't be sailing full -- to me that is creating a bigger problem, potentially leading to less overall cruisers on a given week.

or

(3) ??? something else.

My feeling from years in other businesses is, don't move a problem to another location; fix the problem in the location that is having it. If you simply move the problem, sometimes you create two problems instead of having just one.

I never said you were speculating, I was honestly curious and tried to say that as positively as possible. Sorry if I upset you

 

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It would take a LOT more than a conversation on CC to 'upset me'. When I speculate on issues, I make sure everyone knows it is simply my opinion.

Sometimes it causes some doubt in readers I am sure......but I can't and won't share my contacts name.....but I do make sure to let him know what to read here on CC (both positive and negative) when it comes to the cruiseline.

Better for what reason? ...

Key West. I don't think Royal is comfortable sending a Voyager class ship there on a regular basis.

It would take a LOT more than a conversation on CC to 'upset me'. When I speculate on issues, I make sure everyone knows it is simply my opinion.

 

Sometimes it causes some doubt in readers I am sure......but I can't and won't share my contacts name.....but I do make sure to let him know what to read here on CC (both positive and negative) when it comes to the cruiseline.

My previous comment was purely my opinion, not a statement of fact. I do not profess to know anyone at corporate and do not preface any of my opinions that way.

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Key West. I don't think Royal is comfortable sending a Voyager class ship there on a regular basis.

But what is the logic behind your thinking. It has been discussed on CC that the port in Key West has some problems. If I remember reading they did some type of test run into Key West with a Voyager ship.

I expect that their decision on this will focus on:

(1) keeping these short runs profitable -- can the ship put on these itineraries be cost effective while running these very short itineraries based on in combination with the revenue that can be generated by the new level of cabins and WOW features on board

(2) minimize headache/s in dealing with Key West problems and not create any more problems with the additional cruises (due to significantly larger paz capacity) in Key West.

Better for what reason? (1) in this case it won't be for overall cruiser capacity. It basically is a 'push' when it comes to overall capacity. Yes -- it does have balcony cabins that are not JS, which will give them better revenue generator potential for fares.

 

another way to look at it:

 

(2) it won't be for increasing overall capacity for cruisers fleetwide. What I have read about Enchantment here on CC is that the ship has difficulty sailing full each cruise. If the theory is that it may sail full on the 3/4 day itineraries from Miami, then you may be putting a larger ship in PC, that won't be sailing full -- to me that is creating a bigger problem, potentially leading to less overall cruisers on a given week.

 

or

(3) ??? something else.

 

My feeling from years in other businesses is, don't move a problem to another location; fix the problem in the location that is having it. If you simply move the problem, sometimes you create two problems instead of having just one.

If they have trouble filling a cruise in pc why don't they go to Port everglades a day Miami for the short cruises

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But what is the logic behind your thinking....

Enchantment easily fits into Key West. I know they tested a Voyager class ship in Key West, but I get the feeling that they don't want to do that on a regular basis. When Voyager was in New Orleans, they never went to Key West. Once Serenade was moved to New Orleans, they added Key West to some itineraries.

But what is the logic behind your thinking. It has been discussed on CC that the port in Key West has some problems. If I remember reading they did some type of test run into Key West with a Voyager ship.

 

I expect that their decision on this will focus on:

(1) keeping these short runs profitable -- can the ship put on these itineraries be cost effective while running these very short itineraries based on in combination with the revenue that can be generated by the new level of cabins and WOW features on board

(2) minimize headache/s in dealing with Key West problems and not create any more problems with the additional cruises (due to significantly larger paz capacity) in Key West.

I think you misunderstood, Bob agrees that the Votager is to large for KW. Enchantment is about the same passenger capacity as her Majesty. People like to visit KW, no need to give up on it

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Strickly my opinion, but I believe the ship to replace the Majesty, after April of 2016, is a Voyager Class ship, that was supposed to have many more added venues, that were suddenly dropped on her last drydock. Some said they were not added because she had an azipod issue.

Royal Caribbean also says that she will enter drydock again for more cabins..well, that won't happen, she simply will wet dock, while more cabins are added.

Which Voyager Class ship has only 2 alternative dining venues? My gut says that is the ship that will replace the Majesty. Even questioning Mr. G on the Quantum.........he would not answer me. I have been told that I'm close........but no cigar!!:)

We are booked on the last two cruises of the Majesty. What a classy ship of her time!

Rick

Strickly my opinion, but I believe the ship to replace the Majesty, after April of 2016, is a Voyager Class ship, that was supposed to have many more added venues, that were suddenly dropped on her last drydock. Some said they were not added because she had an azipod issue.

 

Royal Caribbean also says that she will enter drydock again for more cabins..well, that won't happen, she simply will wet dock, while more cabins are added.

 

Which Voyager Class ship has only 2 alternative dining venues? My gut says that is the ship that will replace the Majesty. Even questioning Mr. G on the Quantum.........he would not answer me. I have been told that I'm close........but no cigar!!:)

 

We are booked on the last two cruises of the Majesty. What a classy ship of her time!

 

Rick

That was Adventure.

You specifically wrote in post #193: "Even if long ago paid off, I'm sure they have refinanced them several times"

 

To me it is you who is speculating here with the above statement, rather than know it for a fact.

 

My father raised me ( and I am sure the fathers of other people) to believe that the best position a person or business can be in is 'debt free'. I don't expect Royal to really ever be debt free because of the need to finance new ships....but it also would not surprise me if they have ships in the fleet that are finance free. Taking on more debt for refinancing, isn't always the best route to anything.

I don't want to speculate, but I will assume that your father would find CCL a better run business because their debt ratio is 37% compared to RCL's whopping 84%. Just my opinion. :D

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That was Adventure.

Yes adventure had the azipod issue

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I think you misunderstood, Bob agrees that the Votager is to large for KW. Enchantment is about the same passenger capacity as her Majesty. People like to visit KW, no need to give up on it

 

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They can get to KW from Port Canaveral on the 4 day. It's really not that far as to be undoable. They have other big ships in PC already anyways. Enchantment is a half step up from Sky. A Voyager class would blow everything else away.

Or abandon Miami for RCI and leave it for Celebrity and start running out of Port Everglades though that may not make any real difference

That was Adventure.

Bingo!!!:D

Rick

I don't want to speculate, but I will assume that your father would find CCL a better run business because their debt ratio is 37% compared to RCL's whopping 84%. Just my opinion. :D

 

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I would expect Royals' debt ratio to be very high right now because they are financing the building of new ships. I would not expect a ship like Her Majesty to have debt on her, specifically right now, and probably not much debt (in any on some of the older ships as well). But that is just my guess and hope.

I think you misunderstood, Bob agrees that the Votager is to large for KW. Enchantment is about the same passenger capacity as her Majesty. People like to visit KW, no need to give up on it

 

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I get the picture that some people believe that Voyager class is too large for KW. The question really is -- Is that true? and IF so, is there a way to resolve the issue?

They can get to KW from Port Canaveral on the 4 day. It's really not that far as to be undoable. They have other big ships in PC already anyways. Enchantment is a half step up from Sky. A Voyager class would blow everything else away.

 

Or abandon Miami for RCI and leave it for Celebrity and start running out of Port Everglades though that may not make any real difference

I had read in the investor material sometime back, that RCI had made a commitment to Port of Miami to remain there.

I had read in the investor material sometime back, that RCI had made a commitment to Port of Miami to remain there.

They are over extending some of their commitments IMO. But yes their headquarters is there so they also probably like to have visibility.

As far as KW goes what is the largest cruise ship with regular calls? Carnival Breeze?

I get the picture that some people believe that Voyager class is too large for KW. The question really is -- Is that true? and IF so, is there a way to resolve the issue?

If resolving the issue requires dredging or other modifications/contruction in Key West, I believe there will be significant resistance from some folks in Key West. I don't believe they want a large increase in cruise ship passengers.

This is why I think it's a possiblity they will move EN down to Miami and AD to Port Canaveral. EN has close to the same capacity as MJ.

They are over extending some of their commitments IMO. But yes their headquarters is there so they also probably like to have visibility.

 

As far as KW goes what is the largest cruise ship with regular calls? Carnival Breeze?

From an investor standpoint, Royal Caribbean is hanging out there, but if everything remains the same, their new ships, Quantum and coming out next year, the Anthem, gives the company a different philosophy....that of a first time cruiser, and more than that........a family cruising......vs a

Disney vacation.

And, Royal Caribbean has advanced money for exactly this bet. The best suites on the Quantum, are basically family suites. Mom and Dad get the best of the best, and the kids, get all of the goodies, and still sleep in the cabin.

I have never seen so many combined suites, or Jr Suite cabins, where one can have family of up to 8.......pretty impressive.

And then......more Oasis Class ships being built......headed for Asia.

They will either sink or swim............as of now are leveraged heavily, but let

's see what happens in two years.

The stock market likes them!!

Rick

Which Voyager Class ship has only 2 alternative dining venues? My gut says that is the ship that will replace the Majesty. Even questioning Mr. G on the Quantum.........he would not answer me. I have been told that I'm close........but no cigar!!:)

Interesting discussion tonight...

I think Bob makes a very strong case re EN. I like Rick's thoughts too... sounds like you know something. But I don't see NoS with it's refurbs (Florider, Sabor) heading to Southampton/Europe/even Asia. Adventure would be much easier to change for Asian market for example, or allow to sail Europe as is. I see the large latin cruisers loving Sabor and of course the Florider heavily used on sea days (or missing CoCocay). Rick's has a strong point re: the specialty restaurants maybe not being used as much on the short cruises.

Who knows... but after thinking about it for a while, and only if RCL doesn't want a Voyager Class in KW: EN in MIA, NOS in Canaveral, AOS in Southampton/or Asia is my current vote.

If RCL wants a Voyager class in KW: EN stays, NOS to MIA, AOS to Europe/or Asia.

What exactly is the issue with a Voyager-class ship in Key West?

Width of channel? Depth of channel? Tides? Coral? Pier? Do they have maneuvering issues with the larger sail area of a Voyager-class vs Vision-class? (Think barn door in the wind).

I did a quick search and it does seem like Breeze is about the largest regularly calling ship on Key West - a quick comparison shows fractional differences between Breeze and Voyager-class in terms of length and water draw; however Voyager-class is a whopping 34 feet wider in beam. I found this statistic interesting and surprising in the comparison.

I think an argument for Key West is a good one, and even if a Vision-class is the only one that can go there, it can do so from any Florida east coast port.

Port Everglades is actually a much more friendly port in terms of airport distance, availability of affordable hotels, as well as legitimately well run off site parking.

I get that RCI won't leave Miami completely, or isn't likely to if for nothing else to maintain brand presence, but if they had contracted to process X number of pax per year I am sure they could meet that through Celebrity or sublet space say to MSC.

Is there not going to be a Freedom-class ship running out of Port Canaveral for the next few years at least? If so, putting in a very similar Voyager-class to do the 3 day and inevitable "We pay you to get onboard" 4 day cruises would mean people could probably just do a 7 day (3/4)b2b on a Voyager-class out of PC for less than a 7 day Freedom-class. I don't think Royal wants that sort of self-competition going on.

I do think an alternating 4 day itinerary would be possible from Miami or Fort Lauderdale; doing a 4 day to Labadee and back (sea day on each end) from Port Canaveral could be tough. I genuinely think it could make an interesting set of B2B's or B2B2B to have alternating 4 day every other week between the 'standard' 3 day weekend coco cay/nassau run.

I still believe a Voyager-class ship in Miami for short cruises would just dominate everything. You'll have a floating billboard for the weekend getaways being as big or bigger than the big iron the other guys sell at premiums for the one week runs.

I mean Carnival has a ton of ships at Miami. I was just at POM Sat and Sunday and there were 4 large Carnival ships. I don't even know what was in port on Friday, at least 1 carnival ship if not 2. Honestly, is there a real reason for someone to say go from Carnival or NCL's latest and greatest and give RCI a try on a Vision-class ship? Not really. Very nice ships. Elegant. "Nice". Comfortable. But WOW? Not compared to other bigger ships out there.

But...if you have a Voyager-class doing short runs out of Miami the people that normally would take NCL, Carnival, or MSC would say "That's a pretty hot ship...looks like I should try that out for a short taste and see if I like Royal". Voyager-class gives people from OTHER brands a reason to try RCI.

A good many of us enjoy many things about Majesty of the Seas, but let's be totally honest here, for all the charms of the ship it isn't class competitive against new offerings in the same market in terms of features and amenities and that equates to cut rate offerings that devalue the brand. If you stick a Vision-class in Miami you have the same problem; it's not a major leap forward from the competition, so if you can't win converts on features and amenities you have to do it by slashing prices. If Royal is serious about not giving away cruise prices and holding the line on prices they need a demonstrably superior product that commands the higher prices being asked. You give people a little taste at the right price and they come back and buy the good stuff non-stop (see: mirror)Even the most entrenched dyed in the wool tinted blinders Carnival superliner fan would drool over a Voyager-class ship and be enticed. Enchantment they'd just write off. RCI people like Enchantment; but will it bring people to the brand from others? Ehhhhhhh.

I think of Enchantment out of PC as a popular add-on to other Florida land-based vacations whether they be beach rentals, camping, or theme parks. I see Voyager-class out of Miami being more of a vacation in and of itself for a larger portion of people.

Also note - I would not rule out NCL upping their game in Miami for weekend cruises. Genting, owner of Star Cruises (3rd largest in the world, behind RCCL actually) is partial owner of NCL and also owns Resorts World land resorts. They are operating their own line doing 1 and 2 night cruises to Bimini (40 miles from Miami) where there is a new beachfront resort and casino. A new pier is operational and expansion at this point is rapid. It was discussed the possibility of NCL adding this as a port with a resort / inclusive tie in. If this takes off in a few years RCI had better have something to fight the NCL cruise/resort model.

My Guess:

Vision Goes to Baltimore

Grandeur Replaces Majesty.

Enchantment Stays in Canaveral.

WHY? 1) If Grandeur gets pulled, Something will replace the Grandeur. The Grandeur is sold out for the next few months already, and I see this continuing with the higher fares from the Anthem/Quantum and Liberty. Folks are driving south to Baltimore. I think it will be the Vision. Vision's route in Europe could be replaced by pretty much Any ship. Vision is in great condition, I think even more so than Grandeur. Vision holds a few more people than Grandeur (Even though they are sister ships, there are 3 classes within the Vision Class) Vision was also fitted with the aft "duck tail" that helps the ship be more fuel efficient. (Grandeur and Enchantment Did Not Get these). That would help with the long 8-10 night cruises where the ship is often at max speeds, compared to the slow speeds required for the Bahamas cruises.

2) Grandeur moves to Miami to replace Majesty. When I was on the Majesty, speaking with some of the Engineering staff, they said that the reason the Majesty and Enchantment are so profitable is because not only is it a short booze cruise, besides the engines, and the upkeep of the ship itself, there is really no extras (Flow Riders, Skating rinks etc) that cost money to upkeep. The Grandeur is the oldest of the 4 larger Vision class ships. (Legend and Splendour are only 70,000 tons and carry less than 2000pax).

3) Enchantment staying in Port Canaveral - People have said that the Enchantment is often not full, but I have seen deals on both ships. Actually I have seen Majesty cheaper a lot more than Enchantment. Enchantment was even pricing a lot higher than the Vision (When Vision was sailing out of Everglades this year). Keeping in mind that the Enchantment has the largest amount of deck space per passenger in the fleet, and the Enchantment's route has a Sea Day and the Majesty does not, it would make sense to keep the Enchantment in Port Canaveral where that space is needed on the sea day.

Again, just my guess.

Happy Thanksgiving!

My Guess:

 

Vision Goes to Baltimore

 

Grandeur Replaces Majesty.

 

Enchantment Stays in Canaveral.

 

WHY? 1) If Grandeur gets pulled, Something will replace the Grandeur. The Grandeur is sold out for the next few months already, and I see this continuing with the higher fares from the Anthem/Quantum and Liberty. Folks are driving south to Baltimore. I think it will be the Vision. Vision's route in Europe could be replaced by pretty much Any ship. Vision is in great condition, I think even more so than Grandeur. Vision holds a few more people than Grandeur (Even though they are sister ships, there are 3 classes within the Vision Class) Vision was also fitted with the aft "duck tail" that helps the ship be more fuel efficient. (Grandeur and Enchantment Did Not Get these). That would help with the long 8-10 night cruises where the ship is often at max speeds, compared to the slow speeds required for the Bahamas cruises.

 

2) Grandeur moves to Miami to replace Majesty. When I was on the Majesty, speaking with some of the Engineering staff, they said that the reason the Majesty and Enchantment are so profitable is because not only is it a short booze cruise, besides the engines, and the upkeep of the ship itself, there is really no extras (Flow Riders, Skating rinks etc) that cost money to upkeep. The Grandeur is the oldest of the 4 larger Vision class ships. (Legend and Splendour are only 70,000 tons and carry less than 2000pax).

 

3) Enchantment staying in Port Canaveral - People have said that the Enchantment is often not full, but I have seen deals on both ships. Actually I have seen Majesty cheaper a lot more than Enchantment. Enchantment was even pricing a lot higher than the Vision (When Vision was sailing out of Everglades this year). Keeping in mind that the Enchantment has the largest amount of deck space per passenger in the fleet, and the Enchantment's route has a Sea Day and the Majesty does not, it would make sense to keep the Enchantment in Port Canaveral where that space is needed on the sea day.

 

 

Again, just my guess.

 

Happy Thanksgiving!

Of all the ideas of what ship will replace Her Majesty, I don't think I ever heard the suggestion of Grandeur. Probably because Grandeur's maximum pax capacity is 2440 and Her Majesty max is 2744. The price for the cabins would automatically have to increase just to bring in the same revenue before anything else gets considered in the pricing. I can't imagine a ship so much smaller in pax capacity replacing her.

Ships that do not have FlowRider are wonderful ships and have a place in the fleet on other itineraries. On a Caribbean itinerary FlowRider is a good thing to have.....it is hot all year round. Even on there coolest days, in mid January, northerners escaping the cold feel that 75 degrees is hot enough to enjoy it.

My Guess:

 

Vision Goes to Baltimore

 

Grandeur Replaces Majesty.

 

Enchantment Stays in Canaveral.

 

I strongly doubt Grandeur gets placed into Miami.