Why I Am Not Surprised

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all of you 4 and 5 star Mariners are not good customers. HAL doesn't value your business because you are not a profitable demographic to serve. They would much rather have a new cruiser than repeat business from customers who spend very little on photos, the casino, excursions, etc. I know you don't want to hear this, but you are not good clients and they would prefer that you simply go away or pay higher fares. It's good business on their part to discourage you from taking up cabins that can be sold to more attractive customers.

 

Don't take it personally. You might be the exception that spends wildly while you are on board. But HAL has to do what's best for them, even if you don't like it.

There's probably a lot of truth in your statement. From a business point of view it makes perfect sense.

When we were new cruisers we wanted to experience everything. Now we are mostly just along for the ride. We rarely take a ship's shore excursion anymore and we have run out of shelf space for new photographs.

There is some truth to this and a Hotel Director (Bruce Muzz) posted this a year ago. A HAL Hotel Director even told us that the longer a person cruises, the less they spend. We are prime examples.

 

Below is the link to his Feb. 2014 post.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=41757673&postcount=4

Interesting article and I somewhat agree the longer a person cruises, the less they spend.

Depends on how many times you have cruised a specific area. For example in 2008 we sailed on our first cruise to the South Pacific. This was probably our 30th cruise on HAL. We spent a lot on shore excursions since we had never been there before.

Also we have sailed to the Caribbean approximately +35 times on HAL, Celebrity Oceania and Carnival. We rarely spend money on these cruises for ship's shore excursions, gifts or drinks; no matter what cruise line we sail

I buy Internet, wine and many times a cabana. Most of those are much more pricy than pictures or a shore ex. I also buy a number of drinks too. I do buy cosmetics on board that are cheaper than home.

I know you don't want to hear this, but you are not good clients and they would prefer that you simply go away or pay higher fares.

Of course I don't mind hearing what you say, but I can only pay what HAL charges. If they want to charge more for their cruises, that's up to them.

Word of caution about travel agencies and company 'special pricings'...

This exact thing happened to us several years ago. We snagged a last minute VOV deal. Could not believe our good fortune. Called our T/A, and she said, well no, we couldn't get this cruise for THAT price as it was 4000.00 below their (the travel agency) lowest fair.

She called HAL and then told us that we could not get this as it did not exist.

Finally sent her the e-mail. After eating some crow she did give us this special pricing. Seems the T/A's are loathe to give out 'prices' lower than their agreed upon 'special pricing thru Hal' negotiated fares.

Word of caution about travel agencies and company 'special pricings'...

 

This exact thing happened to us several years ago. We snagged a last minute VOV deal. Could not believe our good fortune. Called our T/A, and she said, well no, we couldn't get this cruise for THAT price as it was 4000.00 below their (the travel agency) lowest fair.

 

She called HAL and then told us that we could not get this as it did not exist.

 

Finally sent her the e-mail. After eating some crow she did give us this special pricing. Seems the T/A's are loathe to give out 'prices' lower than their agreed upon 'special pricing thru Hal' negotiated fares.

If this was HAL's won pricing, you could have just booked through HAL.

This is what we do when there is no point in booking through our TA (ie: no extra OBC, no extras being offered by the TA).

Do you have a cruise booked with them right now? I show $8398. No special pricing.

This morning still the same pricing CND5998.80 + 856.37 tax for inside. Outside is the amount you quote, CND 8398.

If not logged in, the pricing is higher.

5 star, no cruises booked, but lots of FCD/FCC

This morning still the same pricing CND5998.80 + 856.37 tax for inside. Outside is the amount you quote, CND 8398.

 

If not logged in, the pricing is higher.

5 star, no cruises booked, but lots of FCD/FCC

That is why you see special pricing. I always log in. It never changes when I have a cruise booked.

There is some truth to this and a Hotel Director (Bruce Muzz) posted this a year ago. A HAL Hotel Director even told us that the longer a person cruises, the less they spend. We are prime examples.

 

Below is the link to his Feb. 2014 post.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=41757673&postcount=4

A good passenger is one that allows the cruise line to make a profit. I would think that the 20-80 rule would most likely apply to cruise lines also: 20% of your passengers provide you with 80% of your profits. I also doubt that there are many long time passengers that make up this group.

If you accept that most of the cruise line's profits are made from on-board sales, small amounts can make a huge difference. Carnival Corp carried over 10,000,000 passengers last year. Having each one spend just an extra $10 adds an extra $100 million.

There is some truth to this and a Hotel Director (Bruce Muzz) posted this a year ago. A HAL Hotel Director even told us that the longer a person cruises, the less they spend. We are prime examples.

 

Below is the link to his Feb. 2014 post.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=41757673&postcount=4

What about 5-Star Mariners that book Neptune Suites and take HAL excursions but do not buy much stuff onboard other than discounted wine packages? Do they like us or not?

Hi,

I had to call the Mariner Society a few weeks back because I noticed we'd stopped getting emails. This also happened last year after I'd filled in one of the (annoying) pop ups on the HAL website....I thought since we were already on an email list, I could check "no" to sign up for promotions. Instead, they stopped entirely. My PCC fixed the issue after I called. Now I just ignore the pop up and don't fill it in. Not really sure why they stopped a few weeks ago.

 

I did get the email. Price by following email link: $6,999, but after logging in, the base shows $7,799 but the "price in green": $4,999. Quite a difference, indeed!

 

I would call the Mariner Society and see what the issue is, as you are getting the rate when you log in but not the email.

I have been getting snail mail from HAL but no e-mails for a long time. I haven't inquired why but have noticed.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all of you 4 and 5 star Mariners are not good customers. HAL doesn't value your business because you are not a profitable demographic to serve. They would much rather have a new cruiser than repeat business from customers who spend very little on photos, the casino, excursions, etc. I know you don't want to hear this, but you are not good clients and they would prefer that you simply go away or pay higher fares. It's good business on their part to discourage you from taking up cabins that can be sold to more attractive customers.

 

Don't take it personally. You might be the exception that spends wildly while you are on board. But HAL has to do what's best for them, even if you don't like it.

Actually, as you likely have noticed from the other posts, this is not the first (or last :)) time we have heard this. It makes some sense but generalizations are never fully accurate or good. We stopped buying photos but we didn't stop spending. :) Always an "SA" cabin, always nice wines with dinner, sometimes a shore excursion though admittedly not often, if they shops have anything decent we'll buy, internet packages and alternative dining......... We tip well, too. :D

What about 5-Star Mariners that book Neptune Suites and take HAL excursions but do not buy much stuff onboard other than discounted wine packages? Do they like us or not?

That's for you to decide. Do you get a better discount for being a 5 Star Mariner? We only book Pinnacle or Neptune Suites, and that is our main expense.

We got off the Noordam on May 16th from a B2B cruise, and our entire cost charged to our HAL card was $49.03. HAL offered a total of $600 OBC, and the Explore 4 promo.

Getting back to do you get a better discount being a 4-5 Star Mariner, I receive mail with a different name who has "never cruised", and we could have saved over $1,000 if we booked with that ID and Promo Code. Because we are 4 Star, we couldn't.

Now for our February 2016 cruise, HAL is giving us $1,200 OBC, including the $800 Anniversary Sale OBC, 100 minutes of free Internet, Dine-Around Package and a Beverage Card. Therefor, they must like us! :) (Or else they wouldn't make these offers).

Since reading this post I have gone on the Holland America website, logged in and looked for any kind of possible special. I am only a 1* cruiser, soon to be 2* after our cruise in July. I have never received a HAL email regarding specials nor have found one by logging in. I have requested email specials but have yet to receive one. I guess that I am not worthy!!

Laurie

That's for you to decide. Do you get a better discount for being a 5 Star Mariner? We only book Pinnacle or Neptune Suites, and that is our main expense.

 

We got off the Noordam on May 16th from a B2B cruise, and our entire cost charged to our HAL card was $49.03. HAL offered a total of $600 OBC, and the Explore 4 promo.

 

Getting back to do you get a better discount being a 4-5 Star Mariner, I receive mail with a different name who has "never cruised", and we could have saved over $1,000 if we booked with that ID and Promo Code. Because we are 4 Star, we couldn't.

 

Now for our February 2016 cruise, HAL is giving us $1,200 OBC, including the $800 Anniversary Sale OBC, 100 minutes of free Internet, Dine-Around Package and a Beverage Card. Therefor, they must like us! :) (Or else they wouldn't make these offers).

For the February 2016 was that a special offer or was it one that anyone coukd have booked under the anniversary sale?

For the February 2016 was that a special offer or was it one that anyone coukd have booked under the anniversary sale?

It's available to anyone Cruz Chic. $800 OBC if you book a suite, $200 for the ZPM promo and $200 for the Future Cruise Deposit.

We booked through our PCC who said the $800 OBC goes on your account and can be used for anything, not just excursions. We then transferred to our online TA, where we received a discount of nearly 15%. The PCC still gets the credit for the booking.

The February 2016 cruise: http://www.hollandamerica.com/find-cruise-vacation/CruiseDetails.action?webItineraryIdForAudit=C611FW&fromSearchVacation=true&destList=CF&dateCode=2_2016&flexibleMonths=false&noOfFlexibleMonths=1&portCode=&shipCodeSearch=UU&voyageCode=U609

It's available to anyone Cruz Chic. $800 OBC if you book a suite, $200 for the ZPM promo and $200 for the Future Cruise Deposit.

 

We booked through our PCC who said the $800 OBC goes on your account and can be used for anything, not just excursions. We then transferred to our online TA, where we received a discount of nearly 15%. The PCC still gets the credit for the booking.

 

The February 2016 cruise: http://www.hollandamerica.com/find-cruise-vacation/CruiseDetails.action?webItineraryIdForAudit=C611FW&fromSearchVacation=true&destList=CF&dateCode=2_2016&flexibleMonths=false&noOfFlexibleMonths=1&portCode=&shipCodeSearch=UU&voyageCode=U609

The reason I ask is because they really don't have to like you for you to get this. I'm in no way saying that they don't like you. I just wish the pricing wouldn't be so blatenly different from one person to the next. I doubt anyone would care about $50 but thousands, that's crazy.

Maybe HAL is giving out too much OBC - can't make money when so much is given away.

Maybe HAL is giving out too much OBC - can't make money when so much is given away.

No, it's an attempt to get people to book early charging ultra high prices. Later they give away the farm. That's where they lose the money, if at all.

Maybe HAL is giving out too much OBC - can't make money when so much is given away.

... to understand why service businesses (such as airlines, hotels, cruise lines, etc.) discount their prices late in the "season", you only need to understand the concept of incremental revenue: in a nutshell, once a business has taken in sufficient revenue to cover its fixed and variable costs (plus some profit) for a particular service, every additional dollar of revenue drops to the bottom line ... once you understand that, you will appreciate that HAL's "give-away" fare specials do not result in HAL losing money on them - in fact, the exact opposite is true. If you doubt my word, take a look at CCL's annual financial statements for the past few years and you will see that HAL contributes a significant portion of CCL's revenues and bottom line profit.

Rather than getting upset over what other may claim to have paid for a cruise, I have a strategy that removes the envy factor. When we are considering a cruise, I focus on how much that cruise is worth to us. If HAL's price falls within my target price range, I purchase the cruise. If it's not within my range, I pass on that cruise and consider alternatives. While some people may pay less than I do for the same cruise, I know that I am getting exactly what I want at a price that I have pre-determined is "fair". (As an aside, I must point out that our TA has been very good at getting extra OBCs and price reductions when HAL has introduced new programs or cuts prices after we have already booked a cruise.) This approach may not work for everyone, but it has stood me in good stead.

... to understand why service businesses (such as airlines, hotels, cruise lines, etc.) discount their prices late in the "season", you only need to understand the concept of incremental revenue: in a nutshell, once a business has taken in sufficient revenue to cover its fixed and variable costs (plus some profit) for a particular service, every additional dollar of revenue drops to the bottom line ... once you understand that, you will appreciate that HAL's "give-away" fare specials do not result in HAL losing money on them - in fact, the exact opposite is true. If you doubt my word, take a look at CCL's annual financial statements for the past few years and you will see that HAL contributes a significant portion of CCL's revenues and bottom line profit.

 

Rather than getting upset over what other may claim to have paid for a cruise, I have a strategy that removes the envy factor. When we are considering a cruise, I focus on how much that cruise is worth to us. If HAL's price falls within my target price range, I purchase the cruise. If it's not within my range, I pass on that cruise and consider alternatives. While some people may pay less than I do for the same cruise, I know that I am getting exactly what I want at a price that I have pre-determined is "fair". (As an aside, I must point out that our TA has been very good at getting extra OBCs and price reductions when HAL has introduced new programs or cuts prices after we have already booked a cruise.) This approach may not work for everyone, but it has stood me in good stead.

Thank you very much for this enlightening post. This has been my idea, but without the knowledge of business to back it up!

... to understand why service businesses (such as airlines, hotels, cruise lines, etc.) discount their prices late in the "season", you only need to understand the concept of incremental revenue: in a nutshell, once a business has taken in sufficient revenue to cover its fixed and variable costs (plus some profit) for a particular service, every additional dollar of revenue drops to the bottom line ... once you understand that, you will appreciate that HAL's "give-away" fare specials do not result in HAL losing money on them - in fact, the exact opposite is true. If you doubt my word, take a look at CCL's annual financial statements for the past few years and you will see that HAL contributes a significant portion of CCL's revenues and bottom line profit.

Thanks for posting this helpful explanation.

Thank you very much for this enlightening post. This has been my idea, but without the knowledge of business to back it up!

You are welcome.

Thanks for posting this helpful explanation.

You are welcome.

<snip>If you doubt my word, take a look at CCL's annual financial statements for the past few years and you will see that HAL contributes a significant portion of CCL's revenues and bottom line profit.

I am a regular reader of CCL's annual financial statements and I haven't come across any statements where the individual brands' revenue contributions have ever been provided. Would you be so kind as to point me in this direction?

The reason I ask is because they really don't have to like you for you to get this. I'm in no way saying that they don't like you. I just wish the pricing wouldn't be so blatenly different from one person to the next. I doubt anyone would care about $50 but thousands, that's crazy.

Cruz Chic, I was joking about liking me!!:) It's the same price for the name I used who has never cruised on HAL (on any other line).