PVSA and cabotage

I have come across these terms in various posts. Can anyone explain (simply!!) what they mean?

Certain countries prohibit ships that are not registered in their own country from transporting passengers from one port in their country to another port in their country. For example, in the USA, almost all cruise ships are NOT registered in the US, so a cruise ship can't transport passengers from one US port to another without visiting a "distant" foreign port. There aren't many "distant" foreign ports anywhere near the USA. The closest are in South America or the ABC islands off the coast of South America.

So, you couldn't take a foreign flagged cruise ship from New York to Miami without a stop in South America.

The PVSA is an act that prevents non US flagged ships from transporting passengers from one US port to another without stopping at a distant foreign port. Where this usually comes in play are the first and last cruises out of Alaska. The cruise lines do a short cruise from a southern US port to Vancouver, then to Seattle for the season. People attempt to book B2Bs since these tend to be short cruises, but since there is no distant foreign port, it is illegal without changing ships.

PVSA also applies to airlines. No foreign carrier can fly between two U.S. cities without a call at foreign location. British Air cannot get passengers in Boston, fly to NYC and then to London. They pick up Boston passengers and fly outside U.S.

Cabotage /ˈkæbətɨdʒ/ traditionally refers to shipping along coastal routes, port to port. Now the word is often used to refer to the transport of goods or passengers between two points in the same country by a vessel or an aircraft registered in another country.

The Jones act (for cargo) and the PVSA were enacted to "protect" American flagged shipping. There isn't any

The Pride of America was reflagged as an American ship so it could cruise the Hawaiian Islands without going to Kiribati (foreign port). This forced the cruise line to hire a mostly American crew and pay then at least minimum wage. Read the member reviews to see how this affected service.

So, have I understood correctly, this is an American law which applies only to American ports? If I were to board a foreign registered ship in, for example Bordeaux, I could disembark in Denmark?

And thank you Talisker92, but I do know how to pronounce " cabotage":)

Note where I'm from!!

So, have I understood correctly, this is an American law which applies only to American ports? If I were to board a foreign registered ship in, for example Bordeaux, I could disembark in Denmark?

Sort of. It a US law that applies to US ports (not "American")

As to whether you could embark in Bordeaux and disembark in Denmark, that's something that would need to be taken up with the particular cruiseline you are using. But, most likely, would be allowed.

And thank you Talisker92, but I do know how to pronounce " cabotage":)

Note where I'm from!!

U.S. is not the only country to have cabotage laws. You would have to check pertinent countries to learn which laws they may or may not have.

PVSA (Jones Act) also covers the transportation of goods between two American ports. This is why Alaskan oil is transported to the lower 48 on US Flagged tankers .

PVSA (Jones Act) also covers the transportation of goods between two American ports. This is why Alaskan oil is transported to the lower 48 on US Flagged tankers .

You shouldn't write PVSA (Jones Act). The PVSA covers the transportation of passengers, the Jones Act the transportation of cargo. PVSA was enacted in 1886, the Jones Act in 1920. Two different cabotage laws,enacted 34 years apart, covering two different things, although the Jones Act is much broader and essentially incorporates the provisions of the PVSA.

The enforcement of cabotage by US Customs and Border Protection regulations and procedures as relates to passengers relies on and refers solely to the PVSA:

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf

And thank you Talisker92, but I do know how to pronounce " cabotage":)

Note where I'm from!!

PVSA (Passenger Vessel Service Act) is a US law. Other countries may have similar laws, but PVSA applies to the US.

Under the law, there are restrictions on non-US ships carrying passengers to or from US ports. It works as follows:

1. If the passengers join the ship or depart or both in a non-US port, the law does not apply.

2. If passengers join the ship and depart in the same US port, the ship must stop at a foreign port. It MAY also stop in other US ports.

3. If passengers join the ship in one US port and get off in another, the ship must stop at a "distant" foreign port. Distant ports include Aruba, Bonaire, Curacoa, South America, Fanning Island and anywhere further from the US.

You shouldn't write PVSA (Jones Act). The PVSA covers the transportation of passengers, the Jones Act the transportation of cargo. PVSA was enacted in 1886, the Jones Act in 1920. Two different cabotage laws,enacted 34 years apart, covering two different things, although the Jones Act is much broader and essentially incorporates the provisions of the PVSA.

I put Jones Act in because some people persist in calling it the Jones Act .

I put Jones Act in because some people persist in calling it the Jones Act .

This reason reminds me of what my mother would have said: "If everyone was jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge (or maybe she said the Empire State Building) does that mean you should too?" ;)

I persist in using its correct name.

This reason reminds me of what my mother would have said: "If everyone was jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge (or maybe she said the Empire State Building) does that mean you should too?" ;)

 

I persist in using its correct name.

I prefer the proper name as well . I've heard some US senators(should know better) get it wrong to. The new media are really bad for using the wrong name.

I prefer the proper name as well . I've heard some US senators(should know better) get it wrong to. The new media are really bad for using the wrong name.

Citing one of our senators as a source is usually a very bad idea.

You shouldn't write PVSA (Jones Act). The PVSA covers the transportation of passengers, the Jones Act the transportation of cargo. PVSA was enacted in 1886, the Jones Act in 1920. Two different cabotage laws,enacted 34 years apart, covering two different things, although the Jones Act is much broader and essentially incorporates the provisions of the PVSA.

 

The enforcement of cabotage by US Customs and Border Protection regulations and procedures as relates to passengers relies on and refers solely to the PVSA:

 

http://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/documents/pvsa_icp_3.pdf

I prefer the proper name as well . I've heard some US senators(should know better) get it wrong to. The new media are really bad for using the wrong name.

And it doesn't help that cruise lines sometimes use the wrong term too. On my first Hawaiian cruise, the Princess Patters for our Hawaiian ports warned passengers not to miss getting back on board in term; else, they would be in violation of the Jones Act. Maybe I should have left a note for the cruise director (who controls the Patters, from what I understand).

And for the OP, because of the PVSA, the Hawaiian cruises that sail round trip from Los Angeles, San Diego, and San Francisco, must include a stop in Ensenada (Mexico) or another foreign port, such as Vancouver. That's also why if you've booked an Alaskan cruise that starts in Vancouver and goes one way northbound, you have to make sure you board in that first port. If you miss the ship, you won't be allowed to board in a later port, as they're all US cities.

PVSA also applies to airlines. No foreign carrier can fly between two U.S. cities without a call at foreign location. British Air cannot get passengers in Boston, fly to NYC and then to London. They pick up Boston passengers and fly outside U.S.

Unless something hasa changed recently, I do not believe your example is correct. I have flown ElAl from Miami with a stop at JFK to pick up more passengers and then on to Tel Aviv. Passengers could not fly just the Miami to NY leg.

Sort of. It a US law that applies to US ports (not "American")

 

I didn't mean to cause any offence, but could you please explain to a European citizen, what is the difference between them? I wouldn't have thought of using 'US' instead of 'American' as to me they are synonymous.

Sort of. It a US law that applies to US ports (not "American")

 

I didn't mean to cause any offence, but could you please explain to a European citizen, what is the difference between them? I wouldn't have thought of using 'US' instead of 'American' as to me they are synonymous.

 

They are to most people and that is the way "American" is mostly used but technically it could relate to anybody (or anything) from North, Central or South America.

Sort of. It a US law that applies to US ports (not "American")

 

I didn't mean to cause any offence, but could you please explain to a European citizen, what is the difference between them? I wouldn't have thought of using 'US' instead of 'American' as to me they are synonymous.

 

 

They are to most people and that is the way "American" is mostly used but technically it could relate to anybody (or anything) from North, Central or South America.

 

Exactly. I wasn't trying to be prickly :). It's just a left over from my younger days, when we went on a mission trip from our church and it was extremely impressed upon us to not ask the people in Mexico if they were ever going to come to "America" for a visit. We were told to say "United States".

Thank you for your explanation. I suppose it's a question of usage, for example I would always say Canadian, Mexican Costa Rican or Latin American etc so the confusion wouldn't arise (or offence taken:)

Sort of. It a US law that applies to US ports (not "American")

 

I didn't mean to cause any offence, but could you please explain to a European citizen, what is the difference between them? I wouldn't have thought of using 'US' instead of 'American' as to me they are synonymous.

 

USA (United States of America) is one country in the continent of America but there are many others. Mexico, Canada, Panama, Brazil, to name but a few. Just as there are many countries on the continent of Europe. One of our States Hawaii is not attached to the continent and some people has been known to refer to themselves as Americans when speaking to the Hawaiians. The Hawaiian are very quick to remind us that they too are Americans and are citizens of the USA.

 

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Not exactly the same thing. After all, even your presidents refer to you as 'my fellow Americans' and I don't suppose they mean Canadians or inhabitants of Central and South America:)

Sorry to totally hijack the thread but what happened with the quotes? They are showing up strangely and I have not seen that on any other thread.