Scavi 2011: Our Experience, Updating

On June 10, 2011, we were in Rome and did the Scavi Tour. Earlier postings from the super experienced Cynthia, and others, were very helpful in our preparing and planning.

Through a key Catholic leader in Central Ohio, we had arranged in advance this private tour to the Vatican Necropolis, known as the Scavi, under St. Peter’s Basilica. The Vatican-sponsored archeological excavations under Saint Peter's in the years 1940-1949 revealed the burial location of Peter and others dating to back Imperial times. This historical-archaeological site allows only about 200 visitors per day in small groups of 10-15 people each. A late March History Channel TV special program focused on this "Secret Access: The Vatican" tour under the Vatican and how it dates back to the time of famed Emperor Constantine during the 4th Century.

At depths varying between 16 and 39 feet below the basilica, this secret work was undertaken at the request of Pope Pius XI who wished to be buried as close as possible to Peter the Apostle. Peter is said to be buried there due to its proximity to the Circus of Nero where he was martyred. Lots of early Church history down there based what I have seen and read. There has been a church on this site since the 4th century. Construction of the present basilica, over the old, original Constantinian basilica, began in 1506 and was completed in 1626. St. Peter's is famous as a place of pilgrimage, its liturgical functions and for its history. It is not only associated with the Pope, but with numerous artists, most significantly Michelangelo, who redesigned the dome in 1547. Michelangelo is noted for his work on the Sistine Chapel and the Pieta, a depiction of the body of Jesus on the lap of his mother Mary after the Crucifixion. That art piece inside St. Peter's was carved in 1499, when the sculptor was just 24-years-old. If you are visiting St. Peter's for the first time, it would be good to read up on this history and background to better appreciate ALL that it is there and around this famed location.

More of the necropolis was unearthed in 2003 during construction of a parking lot. Some tombs have undergone restorations, such as the ten-month project involving the Valerii Mausoleum.

You can see more details, visuals, history from this website location:

http://www.vatican.va/various/basiliche/necropoli/scavi_english.html

The only "downside" with the Scavi was that it was somewhat dark there and that no pictures were allowed. It also gets a little warm there. BUT, wow, what history, importance, etc.!!! Very moving, unique and interesting. One surprising aspect was to see the juxtaposition of these areas here were people were buried under Pagan standards and methods and then to see the shift to a Christian way for such burials.

We nearly missed our 9:45 am tour time as the ship's three-car rail train to take us there was delayed, for no reason, for 30 minutes just sitting on the side track near the port. With a little help from "above", they let us join up to our tour group. There were only 13 of us in this group.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Just back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. These postings are now over 14,000 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2011, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now over 44,600 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

Appreciate those who have “tuned in” for these two posts. Don’t be shy and feel free to comment and/or ask any questions of interest.

After our super historic private tour of the Scavi under the Basilica, we saw some of the crypts and this chapel below the main area.:

From St. Peter’s in Rome, this is the view of the heart of this great Basilica and its Magnificent Dome by Michelangelo.:

Inside St. Peters, this is a portion of the main floor area where the body of the late Pope John Paul II has been moved. Just recently they completed this change as he is elevated and goes towards Sainthood. Crowds were big and busy inside this huge Cathedral, the world's largest.:

This is the dramatic front view of St. Peters and the Square with the beautiful sky over this historic setting.:

In the large square outside of St. Peters, they still have this large visual of John Paul II from the massive public ceremony in April that attracted more than a million people to this Square.:

Welcome back Terry. I too found the Scavi tour fascinating and well worth the time and effort to make it happen. When I was there, our tour guide happened to be a young American priest, from the Atlanta area. One of the things that impressed me was how even handed his presentation was, rather than say something was emphatically true, he would say things like "the Church believes that ...", as a result the tour seemed unusually secular to me. That is, however, until we reached the burial spot of St. Peter. He did a 180 at that point and asked us all to pray with him.

Thank you so much for posting this! DH and I are taking the Scavi tour in October; I had no divine intervention in getting the tickets, I applied online and was accepted.

We are so very excited to do this special tour.

Terry, you know I love your pictures and posts, but it's important for readers to know that ANYONE can book a Scavi tour without even being Catholic.

"Through a key Catholic leader in Central Ohio, we had arranged in advance this private tour to the Vatican Necropolis, known as the Scavi, under St. Peter’s Basilica."

Here is the Vatican website with information on how to book this tour:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/institutions_connected/uffscavi/documents/rc_ic_uffscavi_doc_gen-information_20040112_en.html

DH & I arrange this tour for ourselves July 2007. Given that the weather outside was sunny and near 100 degrees Farenheit, we had the opposite reaction to the temperature deep under St. Peter's- it was relatively cool for us.

Terry, you know I love your pictures and posts, but it's important for readers to know that ANYONE can book a Scavi tour without even being Catholic. DH & I arrange this tour for ourselves July 2007. Given that the weather outside was sunny and near 100 degrees Farenheit, we had the opposite reaction to the temperature deep under St. Peter's- it was relatively cool for us.

To our NE Ohio neighbor, that's correct! You do not need to be Catholic to do the Scavi Tour. I am not Roman Catholic. But it can, sometimes, help to have a little aid in getting tickets, depending on when you are planning to visit, your timing flexibility/needs, etc. My sense is that a certain of number of the limited ticket supply are done through the website and some are held back for certain "official" needs/requests. We are glad it ALL worked out for us.

On weather for our day in Rome, we were very lucky (and blessed) in that it was mid 70's with a decent breeze for us on that day. Rome, with all of its pavement, buildings, traffic and people, gets really warm when it's hot there. I cannot imagine how oppressive things can be there in Rome when it gets up around the mid 90's.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Welcome back Terry. I too found the Scavi tour fascinating and well worth the time and effort to make it happen. When I was there, our tour guide happened to be a young American priest, from the Atlanta area. One of the things that impressed me was how even handed his presentation was, rather than say something was emphatically true, he would say things like "the Church believes that ...", as a result the tour seemed unusually secular to me. That is, however, until we reached the burial spot of St. Peter. He did a 180 at that point and asked us all to pray with him.

We had a young priest from Minnesota (or Wisconsin?) and had the identical experience! They must work from a script!

Thanks so much for your detailed info Terry!

We have been lucky enough to get tickets for the Scavi tour for our upcoming visit... so looking forward to this. Can I ask, how warm did it get down there, & how did the ladies who were with you dress?

Thanks,

Debbie

Thanks so much for your detailed info Terry! We have been lucky enough to get tickets for the Scavi tour for our upcoming visit... so looking forward to this. Can I ask, how warm did it get down there, & how did the ladies who were with you dress? Thanks, Debbie

Hi, Debbie! Hope your Scavi tour works well. On ladies dress, clearly short-shorts and shorts are a no-no. Longer pants or below the knee Capri's, etc. Shoulders need to be covered. Us men wore long pants and sports shirts with short sleeves. I would not call it "hot" there, but it does get a little warm and tight and dark there. Nothing bad, but you will appreciate it when you get to the better ventilated areas at the crypt level above the deeper, more historic areas. That's one of the reasons why, in general, these tours are only done with a maximum of 15 people in each group. Our group had 13 people. It's all relative to how warm it will be on your day of visiting Rome. Good luck with your experience.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

One of the things that impressed me was how even handed his presentation was, rather than say something was emphatically true, he would say things like "the Church believes that ...", as a result the tour seemed unusually secular to me.

The Catholics have been very careful from the start to present the excavation's findings in a factual, rather than a devotional light. When Pope Pius XII formally announced to the world that they had uncovered the Constantinian cemetery and found Peter's tomb, he said, "we have found what we believe to be Peter." Not, "we have found St. Peter's remains," because strictly speaking, it is impossible from an archaeological standpoint to say that with 100% certainty! But the bones were scientifically dated to Peter's century, they are of a man about his age, someone very accustomed to physical exertion (he was, after all, originally a fisherman, who as an Apostle walked many miles in the course of evangelizing Europe)... it's hard to imagine it could be anybody else!

Terry, you know I love your pictures and posts, but it's important for readers to know that ANYONE can book a Scavi tour without even being Catholic.

"Through a key Catholic leader in Central Ohio, we had arranged in advance this private tour to the Vatican Necropolis, known as the Scavi, under St. Peter’s Basilica."

 

 

Here is the Vatican website with information on how to book this tour:

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/institutions_connected/uffscavi/documents/rc_ic_uffscavi_doc_gen-information_20040112_en.html

 

DH & I arrange this tour for ourselves July 2007. Given that the weather outside was sunny and near 100 degrees Farenheit, we had the opposite reaction to the temperature deep under St. Peter's- it was relatively cool for us.

Anyone can apply but not everyone is selected. No, you do not need to be Catholic or even Christian... but not EVERYONE can just book this tour. In fact no one can just "book" this tour. You have to apply and you have to be selected.

Thank you for wonderful information. How far in advance do you make reservations? Is a year to early? Thank you.

Thank you for wonderful information. How far in advance do you make reservations? Is a year to early? Thank you.

You can certainly e-mail a year in advance but don't be surprised if you don't get a response for quite a while. They generally don't assign places until a few months prior to the date.

You can apply anytime, but you need to be a few months early to be honest. The visits are limited to amximum of 200 persons each day. You tell them what day you want to visit and they allocate you a time slot 'If you are selected'.

If you hear nothing back, you have been unsucessfull. If you are sucessfull, you get instructions back on how to pay and your time slot. Terry had 9.45am and as he said was delayed getting there.

They are very strict in their rules and if you are later than 10 minutes before the start of your visit, don't bother going as the guards will not let you in.

Andy

Andy, Stephanie and others have made good, added points. The numbers that are allowed to schedule/enter are very limited. The added factor is language. They have to do the groups by Italian, English, French, German, Spanish, etc. There might be just 16-18 groups a day and only (my guess) three or four with English being the language that the guide will use. The guides do each tour in only one language. In our group was a Polish priest who understood English to fit in our tour. With our group of four from Central Ohio, there was also, small world, a couple with their young adult daughter from the Cincinnati area. Seven of 13 in our group from Ohio! Our guide was not a young priest. It was a woman who told the background and history well, but got a little "dramatic" at a couple points. Overall, as mentioned, the experience was very moving, highly interesting, enlightening and worth the time and effort to set up. It helps you better appreciate all that was going on in Rome in that fourth century period as they were transitioning from the pagan to Christian values. Plus, to build a massive new 16th century church on the "foundations" of a much older church site.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Just back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. These postings are now over 15,640 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2011, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now over 45,045 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

Appreciate those who have “tuned in” for these two posts. Don’t be shy and feel free to comment and/or ask any questions of interest.

We did the scavi tour last year in July. Applied on line for the tickets about 8 months prior. I wrote a little note explaining why I wished to be one of the privileged and also requested tickets for a certain time of day if possible. I received my response within a few hours.

The temperature outside was in the mid-90's, and the necropolis has a very high humidity level. I suffer from minor claustrophobia, so it took a little getting used to at first but after a few minutes I was o.k. I wore a cotton skirt (knee length of course) with a tank top and brought along a loosely knitted cotton sweater with short sleeves to put on while in the necropolis and the other churches. I was very comfortable.

This is truly a unique experience. I appreciate the fact that I was one of the fortunate people who got to experience it.

Terry... I'm so glad you enjoyed the tour. It was a highlight of our last trip to Rome. SO interesting. I couldn't believe it and you just can't explain it to someone. It has to be seen. :)

Be aware that this is probably not a tour for those with mobility problems. There are steps and the ground is very uneven. For these reasons, I took this tour in April but DH didn't. I wish he could have experienced it.

Use this link for more info: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/institutions_connected/uffscavi/documents/rc_ic_uffscavi_doc_gen-information_20040112_en.html

Be aware that this is probably not a tour for those with mobility problems. There are steps and the ground is very uneven. For these reasons, I took this tour in April but DH didn't. I wish he could have experienced it.

Appreciate the added comments, that link, etc. Agree with D4 that there are some "challenges" on this tour going down and up through some narrow spaces, etc.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

Just back from a June 7-19 Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc. These postings are now at 23,925 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at:

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474

For details and visuals, etc., from our July 1-16, 2011, Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. This posting is now at 47,258 views.

http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

Appreciate those who have “tuned in” for these two posts. Don’t be shy and feel free to comment and/or ask any questions of interest.

Just received our email saying we got tickets !!!! for our November visit.

I just emailed them 4 days ago so it didnt take long. I was told to send request at least 90 days out, and I had about 110+- days...... of course November is off season so that may have been a factor.....

looking forward to this even tho I am not Catholic ;)

The only thing I would add would be if you are turned down, try again a few days later -- that's what I did and was successful in getting tickets. I think that it's more "the luck of the draw" vs. being "selected". I thought that tour was interesting, but having some archaeological experience, I was pretty skeptical about what information could be gleaned from those fragments of bone.

Even laying aside the question of the authenticity of the bones, it's a fascinating tour. I enjoyed it more for a glimpse of what some of the pagan Roman burials entailed.

I found it a bit amusing that the priest who guided us through would only comment briefly on these beautifully decorated pagan necropoli (houses of the dead) with frescoes and sculpture, but then would lecture us for three times as long on a middling Christian sarcophagus. (I was the one bringing up the rear with my nose pressed through the railings trying to see into the necropoli. ;))

I think it depends on who your guide is. We just returned and had a very passionate young lady who spent a long time on the pagan necropoli.

It was a fantastic visit and i can recomend it to anyone.

You need to be able to handle stairs though.

I am getting frustrated with the website that is posted everywhere for applying for the Scavi tour. I get to the page of the picture of Pope Benedict, and then I get stuck trying to find which link to click on to apply for the Scavi Tour. At risk of looking like a brain-dead idiot, could someone please direct me where to go? :o

Okay, I do believe that I have found it.:o