Norovirus question (because of the Explorer and Majesty in the past two weeks)

When I was on the Enchantment (1/10/14-1/13/14) some of the crew members said that many people on both the prior Majesty's cruise and the same cruise that our ship was on (same dates and itinerary) were very sick, but said maybe it was seasickness.

Then I read last week on the UK news that 68 passengers and 2 crew had Noro on the Majesty (last week), and now the Explorer's had to change their itinerary due to hundreds of passengers and crew with Noro. FYI, the Majesty's Noro was only to my knowledge listed in the British news....and I realize Noro can happen anywhere, anytime, so I'm not complaining about RCI's ships.

Anyway, I'll be sailing on Brilliance next trip and from reading other posts it seems like people are starting to want to avoid the self-service areas (like the Windjammer and drink stations) to minimize getting Noro. Also, posts are saying that the hand sanitizers before entering each restaurant (when people actually use them) aren't effective for Noro? One post from people on the Explorer said all salt and pepper shakers had been removed from the tables (seems logical to me). Maybe having the Windjammer not be self-service, or changing out the serving tongs much more often might help? Are there any doctors/scientists that have any ideas (and yes, I know that frequent hand washing with non-antibacterial soap for at least two minutes is best). Thanks for any insight for safe cruising.

When I was on the Enchantment (1/10/14-1/13/14) some of the crew members said that many people on both the prior Majesty's cruise and the same cruise that our ship was on (same dates and itinerary) were very sick, but said maybe it was seasickness.

 

Then I read last week on the UK news that 68 passengers and 2 crew had Noro on the Majesty (last week), and now the Explorer's had to change their itinerary due to hundreds of passengers and crew with Noro. FYI, the Majesty's Noro was only to my knowledge listed in the British news....and I realize Noro can happen anywhere, anytime, so I'm not complaining about RCI's ships.

 

Anyway, I'll be sailing on Brilliance next trip and from reading other posts it seems like people are starting to want to avoid the self-service areas (like the Windjammer and drink stations) to minimize getting Noro. Also, posts are saying that the hand sanitizers before entering each restaurant (when people actually use them) aren't effective for Noro? One post from people on the Explorer said all salt and pepper shakers had been removed from the tables (seems logical to me). Maybe having the Windjammer not be self-service, or changing out the serving tongs much more often might help? Are there any doctors/scientists that have any ideas (and yes, I know that frequent hand washing with non-antibacterial soap for at least two minutes is best). Thanks for any insight for safe cruising.

You have already identified the best preventative: frequent hand-washing with lots of soap.

Other than that, the only way to avoid contagious diseases is to stay home and not allow anyone from the outside world into your house.

When I was on the Enchantment (1/10/14-1/13/14) some of the crew members said that many people on both the prior Majesty's cruise and the same cruise that our ship was on (same dates and itinerary) were very sick, but said maybe it was seasickness.

 

Then I read last week on the UK news that 68 passengers and 2 crew had Noro on the Majesty (last week), and now the Explorer's had to change their itinerary due to hundreds of passengers and crew with Noro. FYI, the Majesty's Noro was only to my knowledge listed in the British news....and I realize Noro can happen anywhere, anytime, so I'm not complaining about RCI's ships.

 

Anyway, I'll be sailing on Brilliance next trip and from reading other posts it seems like people are starting to want to avoid the self-service areas (like the Windjammer and drink stations) to minimize getting Noro. Also, posts are saying that the hand sanitizers before entering each restaurant (when people actually use them) aren't effective for Noro? One post from people on the Explorer said all salt and pepper shakers had been removed from the tables (seems logical to me). Maybe having the Windjammer not be self-service, or changing out the serving tongs much more often might help? Are there any doctors/scientists that have any ideas (and yes, I know that frequent hand washing with non-antibacterial soap for at least two minutes is best). Thanks for any insight for safe cruising.

We'll be on Brilliance the sailing after you so we're listening closely to all of these reports as well.

When we sailed with Holland America 2 years ago they had the crew serve passengers for the first 48 hours at the buffets. They also had packaged salt/pepper and other condiments during this time frame and the crew served us at the self serve beverage centers.

It was the only time I've seen this done and the only time I sailed HAL but we appreciated the extra care they took to insure we all stay as healthy as possible.

Edit to add....I've heard that this is common practice on HAL it wasn't done because the ship was on any sort of heightened alert.

Cruise ships get the publicity, but that's not where the most cases of norovirus are:

I agree with Merion_Mom. Really, the best thing to do is to wash your hands frequently with hot (as hot as you can stand) water for 20 seconds. Hand sanitizer is OK in a pinch, but isn't as effective. It's better than nothing, though.

It absolutely disgusts me to see how many people do NOT use sanitizer while going into the Windjammer. Or how many people cough/sneeze/pick their noses while grabbing food in there. Ugh. (Admittedly, I work in the food/beverage industry so I might be a little more attentive to this than some...)

I agree with Merion_Mom. Really, the best thing to do is to wash your hands frequently with hot (as hot as you can stand) water for 20 seconds. Hand sanitizer is OK in a pinch, but isn't as effective. It's better than nothing, though.

 

It absolutely disgusts me to see how many people do NOT use sanitizer while going into the Windjammer. Or how many people cough/sneeze/pick their noses while grabbing food in there. Ugh. (Admittedly, I work in the food/beverage industry so I might be a little more attentive to this than some...)

I do not use the hand sanitizer. I wash my hands before going to the Windjammer. As you said, much more effective.

Cruise ships get the publicity, but that's not where the most cases of norovirus are:

 

What's a health care facility, a gym or a nursing home?

Our doctor once said to avoid the buffets and eat only where they serve you. One of the reviews I read recently said something about the ice machines not working and they had trays of ice instead, and the passengers were scooping the ice w/ their used glasses. Most ships I've been on at Royal have trays of filled beverages, and the staff whisks used glasses away promptly.

What's a health care facility, a gym or a nursing home?

 

Our doctor once said to avoid the buffets and eat only where they serve you. One of the reviews I read recently said something about the ice machines not working and they had trays of ice instead, and the passengers were scooping the ice w/ their used glasses. Most ships I've been on at Royal have trays of filled beverages, and the staff whisks used glasses away promptly.

Nursing home/Assisted Living usually.

FYI: My husband designs commercial kitchens (including buffet areas) for hospitals, hotels, resorts and restaurants. He told me that even in high-end resorts that he's seen people actually use their hands to scoop up food for their plates instead of using the serving utensils, and that many people drop the handles of the tongs back into the food after they're used them (adults included, and that's not counting the people that have dropped them on the floors and put them back up on the counters). Also, trying to avoid the self-serve water dispensers as many people attempt to fill their empty water bottles there and put the used bottle up where it's touching the spout.

Maybe it would be a good idea on each cruise line's TV's informational channels in each of the passenger's cabins to (continually as in repeat often), a video of proper hygiene recommendations, and not just in English, but possibly have subtitles in the major other languages?

My doctor says to always enjoy cruising (as I've done the past 35 years), but to make sure to pack and take in your carry-on baggage the following: Pepto-Bismol, Imodium, Benadryl, and Dramamine (along with Advil and/or aspirin) and some Ginger tea bags to drink if you get sick. Her thought was that doing so would save having to stand in a long line if you do become sick in order for the ship's doctor to dispense similar medications.

Our doctor once said to avoid the buffets and eat only where they serve you. One of the reviews I read recently said something about the ice machines not working and they had trays of ice instead, and the passengers were scooping the ice w/ their used glasses. Most ships I've been on at Royal have trays of filled beverages, and the staff whisks used glasses away promptly.

If there's a Noro outbreak, you will be served at the buffet. We were on Jewel of the Seas, out of Harwich, in 2010, and we were the second cruise after a major Noro outbreak. We weren't allowed to touch ANYTHING for the first half of the cruise. I mean, we were handed our wrapped silverware, our plates, etc and there was staff doing the serving (including the Cruise Director!). I don't think we saw salt or pepper shakers for the entire trip.

FYI:

 

My doctor says to always enjoy cruising (as I've done the past 35 years), but to make sure to pack and take in your carry-on baggage the following: Pepto-Bismol, Imodium, Benadryl, and Dramamine (along with Advil and/or aspirin) and some Ginger tea bags to drink if you get sick. Her thought was that doing so would save having to stand in a long line if you do become sick in order for the ship's doctor to dispense similar medications.

I so agree!

You take what we take but we include a little more.

I used to chuckle at my DH for buying and packing all the "emergency" items that could possibly be needed on a cruise, if one gets sick (we include clariten and afrin nose spray to your list).

On our second cruise on the Mariner, I acquired a head cold to beat the band, fever, malaise, and just tired. Thanks to the meds, I did not have to worry about what to do..........just opened the carry-on and all was taken care of.

I was able to enjoy the cruise with minimal headache or congestion.

Sea Ya

Maybe having the Windjammer not be self-service, or changing out the serving tongs much more often might help? Are there any doctors/scientists that have any ideas (and yes, I know that frequent hand washing with non-antibacterial soap for at least two minutes is best). Thanks for any insight for safe cruising.

Once an outbreak is confirmed RCCL goes into a code red or some other color code. The Windjammer remains open but staff is placed at each food station to serve. Passengers are not allowed to serve themselves along with other precautionary procedures implemented at that time.

Also this is the high season for NoroVirus outbreaks. Passengers need to take responsibility for themselves and follow all precautionary procedures while on board. Also not lying on the health forms when checking in on embarkation would help to minimize this from occurring.

What's a health care facility, a gym or a nursing home?

 

Our doctor once said to avoid the buffets and eat only where they serve you. One of the reviews I read recently said something about the ice machines not working and they had trays of ice instead, and the passengers were scooping the ice w/ their used glasses. Most ships I've been on at Royal have trays of filled beverages, and the staff whisks used glasses away promptly.

A couple of years ago we were on a B2B and were delayed board because our ship coming in experienced an outbreak of the Norovirus.

Once we were on the ship and headed to the Windjammer we noticed that all crew and staff members were manning all food stations. We told them what we wanted, held out our dish and they dished it out for us. We were not allowed to touch anything. We were not even allowed to touch dishes, utensils or even boxes of cereals.

And in the Café Promenade we were not allowed to pick up an empty glass or cup. If we wanted water, ice tea or coffee the person standing near the coffee stations picked up a cup, filled it for us, then handed it to us. They also handed us the packs of sugar and poured coffee creamer in our cups for us. . Everything was done for us.

The Captain did everything he could to prevent another outbreak.

It absolutely disgusts me to see how many people do NOT use sanitizer while going into the Windjammer.

Most common hand sanitizers are absolutely worthless regarding noro. You need the stuff hospitals are using and then you need to rub your hand with that stuff for quite a time to have it working on noro.

that many people drop the handles of the tongs back into the food after they're used them

Actually I´ve seen a cook onboard the QM2 doing this... Instead of replacing a nearly empty plate of pancakes (only two left) he carefully filled it up again. Then he put the plate back and laid the tongs right over the pancakes. There wasn´t even a space to place them in front of the plate :eek:!

steamboats

HAL has been experimenting (for several years) with an onboard program they call "Code Orange." This program implements several strategies during the first 48 hours of any cruise...including roping off most common buffet areas and having everything served by staff (who wear gloves), removing salt and pepper shakers from the Lido buffets, not allowing passengers to get their own ice or drinks from dispensers, etc. And yet, HAL still gets their share of Noro outbreaks. The reality is that most Noro infections are brought onboard by passengers or crew who have recently gone through airports and planes (some of the worst places when it comes to catching infections). When you couple this with the short cruise itineraries most often used by RCI..it is just an accident waiting to happen. So about the only thing a cruiser can do is wash their hands (with soap and water) at every reasonable opportunity and avoid touching your face (anywhere) with your hands. And even after taking these precautions, it still is possible that you will get infected! The best prevention is to simply never leave your own home.

Hank

Gosh! After 35 years of happy cruising, I don't want to ever stop cruising...! I would rather be on a cruise ship than an airplane any day (or a group tour getting on/off a tour bus in various cities and multiple hotels). Cruising is the best way to travel in my opinion. It would be nice though if more people were aware of proper hygiene, but I doubt that will be happening even though the cruise lines do their best to politely educate the passengers.

My husband and I are not sailing Royal this year but Celebrity but I thought I might just add something to this discusion.

People are still using the toilets and just walking out.....without a care.! Our friend was so fed up seeing ladies doing it in the washrooms so one day asked a women to " please wash your hands..you have just used the toilet" The lady was non too happy about it but did go back and wash them. I thought that was a great thing to do and from now on on our cruises I will do the same thing.! Prehaps if a few of us could do that then it would make things better all round. After all these dirty people will not catch anything as they are used to it....it will be us that will be ill...so prehaps we should all do it.! And that goes for the men as well.

I have bought a proper hospital standard spray and wipes that I take with us also and use these in between times.

Do not touch any hand rails going down the stairs...steady yourself with your arm or wrist. Also in the elevators push the buttons using your elbow if possible. All these things must carry no end of germs.

Stay well and safe.

Brenda x

FYI: My husband designs commercial kitchens (including buffet areas) for hospitals, hotels, resorts and restaurants. He told me that even in high-end resorts that he's seen people actually use their hands to scoop up food for their plates instead of using the serving utensils, and that many people drop the handles of the tongs back into the food after they're used them (adults included, and that's not counting the people that have dropped them on the floors and put them back up on the counters). Also, trying to avoid the self-serve water dispensers as many people attempt to fill their empty water bottles there and put the used bottle up where it's touching the spout.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea on each cruise line's TV's informational channels in each of the passenger's cabins to (continually as in repeat often), a video of proper hygiene recommendations, and not just in English, but possibly have subtitles in the major other languages?

 

My doctor says to always enjoy cruising (as I've done the past 35 years), but to make sure to pack and take in your carry-on baggage the following: Pepto-Bismol, Imodium, Benadryl, and Dramamine (along with Advil and/or aspirin) and some Ginger tea bags to drink if you get sick. Her thought was that doing so would save having to stand in a long line if you do become sick in order for the ship's doctor to dispense similar medications.

I would be very happy if self-service was removed from WJ entirely. Less chance of infection, likely to be less waste of food. If there is less waste, less infections, and less cost it may be possible that we start seeing higher quality offerings in WJ as well.

Most common hand sanitizers are absolutely worthless regarding noro. You need the stuff hospitals are using and then you need to rub your hand with that stuff for quite a time to have it working on noro.

 

 

 

Actually I´ve seen a cook onboard the QM2 doing this... Instead of replacing a nearly empty plate of pancakes (only two left) he carefully filled it up again. Then he put the plate back and laid the tongs right over the pancakes. There wasn´t even a space to place them in front of the plate :eek:!

 

steamboats

You need to wash your hands in hot water and soap for 20 seconds then use a santizer just using a santizer by itself does not stop the problem

I would be very happy if self-service was removed from WJ entirely. Less chance of infection, likely to be less waste of food. If there is less waste, less infections, and less cost it may be possible that we start seeing higher quality offerings in WJ as well.

I would be truly happy with that idea as well! On our RCI cruise not even two weeks ago, I couldn't help but watch the people in front of me getting their food from the various locations in the WJ. Some people would reach (with their hands) all the way to the back of the containers of breads to get one they wanted (with their bare arms, hands, sleeves touching all of the pieces of bread or rolls in the front)...! One woman dropped the salad dressing spoon upside down into the dressing, then scooped it out and then dropped it onto the tray of greens. And the amounts of leftover food on the tables where people helped themselves to much more than they actually consumed was sad to see, as it only adds to our cruise costs in the future (and with smaller portions served to passengers if someone wants to go back for a 2nd plate later they're allowed). I think it would create a need for a larger crew to man each food station in WJ, but would maybe be offset by the quantity of wasted food?

Cruise ships get the publicity, but that's not where the most cases of norovirus are:

 

That's correct. I'm glad Cruise Lines have to report it. IMO reporting ensures the Cruise Lines have to deal with it. Won't stop us from Cruising. Like you stated it's all around us in our everyday lives. Wash and be mindful of what you touch.

I would be very happy if self-service was removed from WJ entirely. Less chance of infection, likely to be less waste of food. If there is less waste, less infections, and less cost it may be possible that we start seeing higher quality offerings in WJ as well.

We rarely do buffets but think your recommendation is excellent.

I too wash my hands on the way into the WJ. I don't use the sanitizer as I've read it does nothing to stop the Noro. I get my food and set it at my table and go back outside the WJ to wash my hands again before eating.

Looking to sail RC in June. Will there be any drop in the prices because of this bad publicity?

Aside from that--is it better to buy now or closer to the date?