Cancelling Standard Tips

The Blue Peter badge is in the post, as for gratuities there are two choices either pay the tips or cancel them, cancelling them doesn't give you any less right to go cruising despite what some would have you believe.

Thanks for the badge. I didn't mean you personally should stop cruising I actually meant everyone who doesn't pay should stop cruising. You're quite right people who don't pay the tips still have the right to go cruising. My opinion is that they shouldn't.

Just to add, that £1.2mil does seem a lot over 99 days, but if you then break that down to a weekly figure, and then split the figure by the number of crew in the tip pool, the actual sum per person is only around £400 per week (back of a fag packet calculation). This does not seem excessive to me, given the hours worked.

However, I would still prefer to see the tips incorporated in the fare, so the the 99 day cruise was £1200 more expensive.

 

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So how many in the tip pool? If you reckon tips are paying £400 per person per week, what are P and O paying them?

Just to add, that £1.2mil does seem a lot over 99 days, but if you then break that down to a weekly figure, and then split the figure by the number of crew in the tip pool, the actual sum per person is only around £400 per week (back of a fag packet calculation). This does not seem excessive to me, given the hours worked.

However, I would still prefer to see the tips incorporated in the fare, so the the 99 day cruise was £1200 more expensive.

 

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£400 per week on top of their wages!!!

Just to add, that £1.2mil does seem a lot over 99 days, but if you then break that down to a weekly figure, and then split the figure by the number of crew in the tip pool, the actual sum per person is only around £400 per week (back of a fag packet calculation). This does not seem excessive to me, given the hours worked.

However, I would still prefer to see the tips incorporated in the fare, so the the 99 day cruise was £1200 more expensive.

 

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Absolutely it should just be incorporated into the fare. As I said earlier that is the fairest solution. As you have said this is going to be a never ending story until that happens.:rolleyes:

You as an experienced cruiser knows to look as you might expect to pay a service charge.

 

For someone who has never cruised before and is used to (honest) hotels where the cost of the room meals and service would appear during the booking or on their final bill would not expect to pay anything more.

 

The first a new cruiser would become aware of this undisclosed charge is when they got their cabin bill at the end of the cruise!

 

 

 

They get away with it because of the social embarrassment of not paying.

 

It is obviously outrageous and deeply unpleasant.for P&O behave in this way, but according to many here "it's tradition". Well so was sending children up chimneys.

I disagree entirely - I am not a particularly experienced cruise traveller and the first time I made a cruise booking I certainly "read up" on everything the booking entailed. There might be a few people that go into any kind of booking with blinkers on but the vast majority of people parting with their hard-earned cash for a cruise - maybe a few thousand pounds - will not have the surprises that you are suggesting. The issue of gratuities is not kept under wraps.

£400 per week on top of their wages!!!

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We've done 105nights kept the auto-tips on and still gave extra to our waiters, cabin steward, butler and others. I really do get a little tired of these threads with people continually finding reasons why they shouldn't pay gratuities. Either pay up or stop cruising.

Rather a rude and patronising answer. Stop assuming that just because people discuss the issues on auto gratuities they do not want to reward staff. On the contrary if you had read the posts you will see that nowhere have I personally said I would not pay. BUT I am not happy paying large amounts of money to P & O if they do not ensure the staff are rewarded. If you are tired of the posts them stop reading them

That is your choice - don't assume that everyone who cancels the autotip doesn't tip or want to tip.

 

We want to be sure that the staff that serve us get their reward depending on the level of service they offer, with autotip this depends on their customer satisfaction results. What happens to the money if they don't get a high enough rating.

 

We tip by envelope because we want the be sure that the staff serving us actually get the money, but now we cannot even be sure that they can keep it because they may have to hand to over to a kitty.

 

So P&O need to provide some transparency on this - as it stands there is no way to ensure that the staff serving us are guaranteed to get the money.

I'm not assuming anything I said anyone who doesn't pay the gratuities. Which could be either leaving on the auto-tips or paying by envelope. I can't help but wonder how many people who remove the auto-tips actually give anything at all.

I'm not assuming anything I said anyone who doesn't pay the gratuities. Which could be either leaving on the auto-tips or paying by envelope. I can't help but wonder how many people who remove the auto-tips actually give anything at all.

Three or four years ago, there were two couples on our table who made no secret of the fact that they had cancelled the automatic tips and would be giving "a few dollars" to their cabin attendant!!! That was based on the tipping culture in their own country and that's what they were following, not the culture in the country/countries they were visiting. I think one of the reasons that auto-tipping on P&O arouses such passions is that P&O sadly does not have the usual international passenger mix, drawing some 95% of its passengers from the UK and Ireland.

I suppose the question might be -would you have been happy to pay ~£1200 more for your cruise? if P&O marketed the cruise with Gratuities included.

It would obviously work out the same for you but would you have had second thoughts on booking it.

 

When I look at Thomson A!&Grats I subtract those calculated at other lines rates from the price asked and compare that with similar cruises. Have to say I much prefer it all to be included and that way you dont have to worry whether the staff are stiffed or not as it is totally out of your control (some will say as it is with P&O)

One can then give real tips to anyone who provides you with an extra service in the knowledge that it will not be taken off them and maybe allocated to someone else on another ship.

 

There is an article here on tipping but as usual there is no date on it. Surprisingly no comments either.

https://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/articles.cfm?ID=261

I think I would prefer that the gratuities are included providing the cruise line published how much and how it was divided up with the crew. I have cruised for many years and have always found the "tipping" to be a worry I.e who to tip, how much to give etc. I feel uncomfortable rewarding some select people like cabin stewards and waiters but not anyone else. Yet there are hundreds of crew who do a good job and probably get paid less than stewards or waiters. I have tipped both ways i.e auto and cash but feel that whatever I do underneath there is always that suspicion that it is P&O "stiffing" the crew and not the passengers. Would I notice a price rise if they were included, probably but I would still book the cruise. I

Three or four years ago, there were two couples on our table who made no secret of the fact that they had cancelled the automatic tips and would be giving "a few dollars" to their cabin attendant!!! That was based on the tipping culture in their own country and that's what they were following, not the culture in the country/countries they were visiting. I think one of the reasons that auto-tipping on P&O arouses such passions is that P&O sadly does not have the usual international passenger mix, drawing some 95% of its passengers from the UK and Ireland.

I think you have a good point there. I think Brits are getting better at tipping but it is not something I am comfortable with.

I object to paying so called service reward scheme charges

When I go on holiday I expect my £1700 (A731 one way TA) to pay for the services of :

Captain

His mate

Navigator

The man who cleans the bilges out

The electronic geek who sends out the SOS

The person washing my sheets and towels

The engineer desalinating my water I use

The airline pilot to get me back home

The air stewardess serving me drinks and food

Atul Kochur

Head chef

Sous chef

The bottle washer

The people who put the food out in the fast food canteen

The waiters who put plates in front of me

Whats her name from Headliners

pool atendants

Grease monkeys

My cabin steward

I find it ridiculous that this tax has gone from £3 in 2012 to £6 now. Inflation has not gone up 100%

Have the waiters and stewards had a 100% wage increase, I think not

P&O make much of what is included on a cruise including 5 course dinners, I do not expect to pay extra to have it put in front of me on the table

I will not be paying this discretionary surcharge

I will enjoy my hard earned £1700 holiday

Very good comments on here in the main, well done.

I have cruised with quite a few cruise lines, albeit most under the Carnival Corp banner, i.e. Princess, P&O UK & Australia and Cunard. I have always said, no matter what the cruise line, 'Auto Gratuities, Auto Tips, Service Charge' are a just a wage subsidy paid by the passenger in addition to fare. At the end of the day the cruise line does not want to pay all the crew wages out of its revenue, it wants the passenger to pay extra in addition to their fare - 'User Pay.' :evilsmile:

Here in OZ, many cruisers use the term for auto tips - 'AWS' (Automatic Wage Subsidy) for that is what it is.:o

I disagree entirely - I am not a particularly experienced cruise traveller and the first time I made a cruise booking I certainly "read up" on everything the booking entailed. There might be a few people that go into any kind of booking with blinkers on but the vast majority of people parting with their hard-earned cash for a cruise - maybe a few thousand pounds - will not have the surprises that you are suggesting. The issue of gratuities is not kept under wraps.

So you exactly prove my point!

P&O did not disclose to you they would be adding an optional service charge to your cabin bill when you made your booking, you had to go out of your way to find out how much they were going to add on.

I think you have a good point there. I think Brits are getting better at tipping but it is not something I am comfortable with.

Actually I think Brits are getting worse at tipping because they insist on paying more. I do pay P&O Auto gratuities but I certainly don't agree with it nor do I agree with tipping in restaurants, hairdressers or taxis etc. I live in Spain and they simply round up the payment and that can be a couple of euros. We are obsessed with tipping. I accept a 105 day cruise is a long time but to pay £1200 in tips and then give more is worrying. People are going to argue that you tip for good service but we have only had the service that we would expect. I expect the cabin steward to clean my cabin particularly as we always keep it tidy, I expect a waiter to put the food on my table without any real problem, I expect a taxi driver to take me to where I requested and I expect a hairdresser to cut my remaining hair as I request. I never tip shop assistants, bus drivers, bank staff (although incidentally I once did give a box of chocolates to a Halifax Bank Assistant who had been very helpful) etc etc. and I see them as no different.

The fact is that tipping is an individual choice and it really is nothing to do with anyone else. You should tip as much or as little as you want. If the "optional" auto gratuities are indeed needed for the staff wages then like the commission for bar staff they should be included in the cost instead of being in the situation where some pay and some don't.

Actually I think Brits are getting worse at tipping because they insist on paying more. I do pay P&O Auto gratuities but I certainly don't agree with it nor do I agree with tipping in restaurants, hairdressers or taxis etc. I live in Spain and they simply round up the payment and that can be a couple of euros. We are obsessed with tipping. I accept a 105 day cruise is a long time but to pay £1200 in tips and then give more is worrying. People are going to argue that you tip for good service but we have only had the service that we would expect. I expect the cabin steward to clean my cabin particularly as we always keep it tidy, I expect a waiter to put the food on my table without any real problem, I expect a taxi driver to take me to where I requested and I expect a hairdresser to cut my remaining hair as I request. I never tip shop assistants, bus drivers, bank staff (although incidentally I once did give a box of chocolates to a Halifax Bank Assistant who had been very helpful) etc etc. and I see them as no different.

The fact is that tipping is an individual choice and it really is nothing to do with anyone else. You should tip as much or as little as you want. If the "optional" auto gratuities are indeed needed for the staff wages then like the commission for bar staff they should be included in the cost instead of being in the situation where some pay and some don't.

Agree, put the tips into the fare price as they do on Princess Australia ships and P&O Australia ships, although the service crew expect cash too, that's the problem, double bubble.

So you exactly prove my point!

 

P&O did not disclose to you they would be adding an optional service charge to your cabin bill when you made your booking, you had to go out of your way to find out how much they were going to add on.

In my opinion, reading the brochure/website/booking conditions is certainly not going out of my way - surely it is what anyone should be doing - for those who don't, they have no one to blame but themselves. My view still is for what it's worth, there is no concealment going on.

Absolutely it should just be incorporated into the fare. As I said earlier that is the fairest solution. As you have said this is going to be a never ending story until that happens.:rolleyes:

What will happen is the cruises will be more expensive then they will still give out envelopes to put tips in.

Three or four years ago, there were two couples on our table who made no secret of the fact that they had cancelled the automatic tips and would be giving "a few dollars" to their cabin attendant!!! That was based on the tipping culture in their own country and that's what they were following, not the culture in the country/countries they were visiting. I think one of the reasons that auto-tipping on P&O arouses such passions is that P&O sadly does not have the usual international passenger mix, drawing some 95% of its passengers from the UK and Ireland.

Did they actually tip as they said?.

The problem with handing out sealed envelopes is someone can say they are giving a lot but they might only put a few pounds in the envelope.

Agree, put the tips into the fare price as they do on Princess Australia ships and P&O Australia ships, although the service crew expect cash too, that's the problem, double bubble.

Yep because all those who say “ When in Rome” forget all about it when it’s not how they’re used too.

Just to add, that £1.2mil does seem a lot over 99 days, but if you then break that down to a weekly figure, and then split the figure by the number of crew in the tip pool, the actual sum per person is only around £400 per week (back of a fag packet calculation). This does not seem excessive to me, given the hours worked.

However, I would still prefer to see the tips incorporated in the fare, so the the 99 day cruise was £1200 more expensive.

 

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I was basing my calculation on a ship like Arcadia that has roughly 2000 pax and a grand total of 866 crew. Your figure of £400 per week (if I read it correctly) assumes 3000 in the tip pool. Based on Arcadia, the weekly sum would be far higher per crew member

Actually I think Brits are getting worse at tipping because they insist on paying more. I do pay P&O Auto gratuities but I certainly don't agree with it nor do I agree with tipping in restaurants, hairdressers or taxis etc. I live in Spain and they simply round up the payment and that can be a couple of euros. We are obsessed with tipping. I accept a 105 day cruise is a long time but to pay £1200 in tips and then give more is worrying. People are going to argue that you tip for good service but we have only had the service that we would expect. I expect the cabin steward to clean my cabin particularly as we always keep it tidy, I expect a waiter to put the food on my table without any real problem, I expect a taxi driver to take me to where I requested and I expect a hairdresser to cut my remaining hair as I request. I never tip shop assistants, bus drivers, bank staff (although incidentally I once did give a box of chocolates to a Halifax Bank Assistant who had been very helpful) etc etc. and I see them as no different.

The fact is that tipping is an individual choice and it really is nothing to do with anyone else. You should tip as much or as little as you want. If the "optional" auto gratuities are indeed needed for the staff wages then like the commission for bar staff they should be included in the cost instead of being in the situation where some pay and some don't.

Very good post.

In my opinion, reading the brochure/website/booking conditions is certainly not going out of my way - surely it is what anyone should be doing - for those who don't, they have no one to blame but themselves. My view still is for what it's worth, there is no concealment going on.

Totally agree with you.

Rather a rude and patronising answer. Stop assuming that just because people discuss the issues on auto gratuities they do not want to reward staff. On the contrary if you had read the posts you will see that nowhere have I personally said I would not pay. BUT I am not happy paying large amounts of money to P & O if they do not ensure the staff are rewarded. If you are tired of the posts them stop reading them

Sorry Sparky I replied to ozzysdad instead of you. I realised my posted sounded personal. I was actually generalising and meant anyone cruising should pay gratuities. As I said to bee-ess that could be auto-tips or in an envelope but my opinion is everyone should. I don't think I'm alone in getting sick of these tipping threads.

I was basing my calculation on a ship like Arcadia that has roughly 2000 pax and a grand total of 866 crew. Your figure of £400 per week (if I read it correctly) assumes 3000 in the tip pool. Based on Arcadia, the weekly sum would be far higher per crew member

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