Are Azamara ships sailing full?

[Susan-M]

Somehow most customers (unlike agents) don't take to this kindly.

 

I can understand why some people have difficulty accepting this, especially those who are only focussed on past prices vs. current prices, instead of comparing ACC's prices to other lines that offer a similar product.

[gosport11]

I can think of a saying that sums things up,slowly slowly catchee monkee,in other words a little increase often softens the blow,

Another saying comes to mind 1£ profit smiling,1£ loss bankrupcy :):):)

[crzrr]

I can understand why some people have difficulty accepting this, especially those who are only focussed on past prices vs. current prices, instead of comparing ACC's prices to other lines that offer a similar product.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Comparing old prices to new is a waste of time. You compare the products out there. You can't compare AZ's size, itineraries, or pricing to any of the cruise lines in business. If you do, AZ's size and itineraries will beat out the larger ships and their pricing will look high. However, if you compare AZ to companies with similar size ships and similar itineraries, their pricing is comparable.

 

I'm not knocking the larger ships. We have had many fabulous cruises on the Celebrity Century and M class ships. However, at this point in life (and we are in our late 40's) we really enjoy the smaller ship and smaller ports and we are willing to pay for it. That being said, we don't waste our money. We feel as though we have received wonderful AZ deals over the past two years. Even though we are paying quite a bit more for our upcoming b2b's, we feel that it is worth the price. And, if our ship isn't full, oh well, I guess that we will muddle through!

 

Once again, not a travel agent and, yet, a frequent poster on the "positivity" thread!

[California Native]

For some reason, Oceania is much more successful in raising prices than Azamara. Oceania has been raising fares gradually but steeply (roughly at double the speed of others) through the last half dozen years. Now its pricing is roughly at 80+% of Seabourn/Silversea/RSSC, and yet its ships are generally full. Azamara is basically a product equal to Oceania, its present fares are perhaps 90% of Oceania, but it chose to increase its pricing in one step a few months ago from perhaps 60% Oceania fares to 90%. Somehow most customers (unlike agents) don't take to this kindly.

 

 

Meow...

I can understand the sticker shock.

I've certainly experienced that in many consumer avenues in my life and I've always been thrilled when I've managed to "score a deal"

I'm not feeling the frustration that others are with the rate increases not because I have alot of disposable income, but we are apparently analyzing it in a different manner

There's 2 ways I view cruising

1. A getaway with my mom..just us girls. Chances are we have done the itinerary multiple times. We aren't there for itinerary we are there

to just hang out. Go to the spa, sip Pina Coladas without having a designated driver, sleep in, stay up late, be lazy, and just not think.

One this type of trip we are cruisers being pampered. We are not viewing the cruise as travel. We probably would not sail on Azamara..because we don't need to love where they will take us.

2. I'm sailing with my DH (or mom) the cruise is all about the itinerary.

Where is it taking us? How long in port? We look at who else is sailing the specific itinerary and their costs. If it's Europe. We don't want mainstream. We have immersed ourselves by land on mainstream and the

next "travel layer" below that.

We could lead shorex and give port lectures.

We are using the ship for transportation, hotel and food. We factor in the finances and logistics to do it on our own. Everything else the cruise

experience offers is just a whole lot of gravy!!!!

What I have found when it comes to 2nd scenario is most people don't take the time to really analyze for example what Princess R ship is doing for the Holy Land or Black Sea. What are they doing for Asia?

Because right now Princess R ships are pricing out higher...but no one seems to be complaining about those prices on the Princess board

Also, people don't seem to adding up what it takes in time, energy and money to do these ports on one vacation on your own.

Once people do that for many of the itineraries they would

find that AZ is a good value.

If itinerary and ship size isn't important to people then

Azamara, Princess R ships and even Oceania probably

isn't a value for them and honestly shouldnt be booked

One of my friends had this comment/analogy last night when we were discussing some of the posts on this board..

She said the price increase is like when you get your eyebrows done

It has to happen

do you want to have them waxed and it will be painful in one swoop

or

do you want to pluck them and suffer in pain through a much slower process

She's right pick your poison..it's going to happen...

Personally, I like the fact they announced it

Not too many companies actually make an announcement like that no matter what they are selling.

Everyone had a chance to see if they could book anything

and now people are ticked off.

I don't get it, to stay in business they HAD to raise prices.

They made it an easier pill to swallow and market by adding in a few extras. But to pay for fixed expenses that are constantly increasing in this economy such as oil, crew salary, port fees, food etc etc the money had to come from somewhere.

[greeneg]

I think most cruise lines are struggling to fill their ships these days based on the number of great offers I receive from various lines via 'snail mail'. Today alone there were 3 in my mailbox.

 

While I wouldn't question this, I have to observe that our Fall transatlantic on the Equinox is showing very limited availability just under 6 months out, and the Cruise Critic party had 149 registrants as of yesterday. The Roll Call has 211 pages and over 4200 posts as of today. A talkative group for sure, but there seem to be a lot of people who have booked this sailing. I do realize that people certainly do cancel and transfer bookings, but the ship certainly looks like it's going to be pretty full at this point in time.

 

Our March Caribbean cruise on the Equinox certainly seemed full, also.

 

I think that it may be more than just the degree of the fare hikes, I think that the way in which it was done was perhaps not as well executed as it might have been. One year ago we were getting ready to go on our Best of Italy Cruise on the Quest from Rome. There is no question that we ended up, for whatever reason, with a tremendous bargain thanks to a series of fare reductions which Azamara honored, even after we had made our final payment. But, we had done the original booking in good faith and we would have still paid the original fare and had a wonderful time and felt that we had received great value for our money( It was our best cruise ever.). I personally found the way that the re-branding was presented to be poor; I don't think that anyone likes to be told that they are no longer a valued customer, and the "new" demographic came across as Cavalier to my thinking. I thought that the "2 for 1 " pricing was a scam, given that it appeared that what was done was to double the per diem, and then apply a 50% reduction. I think that the " secrecy" and "coyness" may have caused significant harm in the sense that there seemed confusion on the part of both the Customer Service Staff and the Customer as evidenced by the variability of answers given to the same questions by different people at different times. I remain unconvinced that the re-branded was fully thought through and the staff fully trained before the initial announcements were made. I think that all of this could have had or could be having a negative impact, and it may well take significant time and effort on Azamara's part to overcome those effects.

 

Just my opinion, but that's my thinking. Since we have had such good experiences on the ships and hope to sail them again, I very much hope that this whole thing will shake out in a positive manner in due time.

[California Native]

While I wouldn't question this, I have to observe that our Fall transatlantic on the Equinox is showing very limited availability just under 6 months out, and the Cruise Critic party had 149 registrants as of yesterday. The Roll Call has 211 pages and over 4200 posts as of today. A talkative group for sure, but there seem to be a lot of people who have booked this sailing. I do realize that people certainly do cancel and transfer bookings, but the ship certainly looks like it's going to be pretty full at this point in time.

 

Our March Caribbean cruise on the Equinox certainly seemed full, also.

 

I think that it may be more than just the degree of the fare hikes, I think that the way in which it was done was perhaps not as well executed as it might have been. One year ago we were getting ready to go on our Best of Italy Cruise on the Quest from Rome. There is no question that we ended up, for whatever reason, with a tremendous bargain thanks to a series of fare reductions which Azamara honored, even after we had made our final payment. But, we had done the original booking in good faith and we would have still paid the original fare and had a wonderful time and felt that we had received great value for our money( It was our best cruise ever.). I personally found the way that the re-branding was presented to be poor; I don't think that anyone likes to be told that they are no longer a valued customer, and the "new" demographic came across as Cavalier to my thinking. I thought that the "2 for 1 " pricing was a scam, given that it appeared that what was done was to double the per diem, and then apply a 50% reduction. I think that the " secrecy" and "coyness" may have caused significant harm in the sense that there seemed confusion on the part of both the Customer Service Staff and the Customer as evidenced by the variability of answers given to the same questions by different people at different times. I remain unconvinced that the re-branded was fully thought through and the staff fully trained before the initial announcements were made. I think that all of this could have had or could be having a negative impact, and it may well take significant time and effort on Azamara's part to overcome those effects.

 

Just my opinion, but that's my thinking. Since we have had such good experiences on the ships and hope to sail them again, I very much hope that this whole thing will shake out in a positive manner in due time.

 

 

Just a few thoughts on this...

I do see that there are several people on your TransAtlantic that have sailed AZ and post on this board their thoughts on AZ.

So there is some crossover, but don't you think in the bigger picture that most people who would sail on Celebrity Equinox with 2,850 passengers

would not necessarily be happy on a 694 Azamara passenger ship.

The Equinox has a lot more bells and whistles in addition to a kids program.

Also, it's one of the new ship which many that like bigger ships tend to flock to...

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't understand how you can really compare the 2 ships and what their inventory is doing.

I do agree with you on these things

~Edie Bornstien really should not have said what she did. That was a definate open mouth insert foot. She's been in sales long enough to know better.

~The new branding could have been thought out a little better

However, At this point whether the rebranding was thought out, could have been done better etc etc. is like spilled milk. It's done. There's nothing that can be changed. We can arm chair quarterback all we want, but it is what it is.

Dwelling on coulda, woulda, shoulda on something that can not be changed just continues the momentum of frustration.

~2 for 1 pricing ...I never liked it with Oceania, Viking River and now Azamara.. just give me the bottom line.

[greeneg]

The new branding could have been thought out a little better

However, At this point whether the rebranding was thought out, could have been done better etc etc. is like spilled milk. It's done. There's nothing that can be changed. We can arm chair quarterback all we want, but it is what it is.

Dwelling on coulda, woulda, shoulda on something that can not be changed just continues the momentum of frustration.

 

I agree completely, but it could be a factor in whether or not Azamra is currently successful in filling the ships which is why I brought it up. This is the first time in 3 years that we have not had an Azamara Cruise booked, and I suspect that we are not the only ones. I have personally yet to see an attempt on the part of Azamara to really re-encourage me to book again. Of course, I am out of that "target demographic".

 

2 for 1 pricing ...I never liked it with Oceania, Viking River and now Azamara.. just give me the bottom line.

 

Again, complete agreement, and I find the scam ( which is how I see it) to be equally offensive no matter who uses it. I would like to see Azamara simply price to the bottom line, give the maximum value for dollar spent, and then let the chips fall where they may. Given the outstanding performance of the on board personel, I think that they would be OK in the long run.

 

I agree that comparing the Equinox and the smaller Azamra Ships is certainly an apples and oranges comparison, but Susan-M was making a general observation about the Industry Overall and I wanted to suggest that our recent experiences appeared to show that people appeared to be booking cruises.

 

There was an earlier post in this thread where someone had referred to Azamara as having originally developed a nice "niche"; I would very much agree with that comment and would really like to see Azamara re-claim that original niche and build on that for the future rather than trying to imitate some of the other lines.

[3418ahl]

Actually, there are certain times I look for the 2 for 1, since it involves free air. In pricing several B2b cruises (in Asia for example) that begin in Hong Kong and end in Dubai (or other such cruises), I have found that after pricing air with another line, the 2 for 1 with free air is cheaper by far!

[greeneg]

Nothing wrong with a true 2 for 1 deal, either with or without air. The problem arises when a price is doubled, with the intent of offering what appears to be a half price deal or 2 for 1: to my mind, this is deceptive marketing and offensive.

 

Bargains are wonderful if you can find them. I fully support all of the bargains that I can find. But, I also have no problem with fair pricing; it's when the lines get blurry that I have a problem.

[California Native]

Just give me the bottom line

We will give you free air for THIS PRICE

We will give you a free air credit for THIS PRICE

The End

I didn't like worded math problems when I was kid and I don't like them now

[3418ahl]

It always pays to do your own homework on any cruise and also have a good TA. I do the best to reason out the cost of the cruise I am interested in. Then my TA always gives me a "best price" (including any credit from him) with AND without air. Sometimes, I will call him and have him price two different cruises.

[greeneg]

Just give me the bottom line

We will give you free air for THIS PRICE

We will give you a free air credit for THIS PRICE

The End

I didn't like worded math problems when I was kid and I don't like them now

 

Absolutely !!!

[meow!]

Just for example, we have been looking at an Iceland voyage for some time (one cat keeps meowing about it), we want embarkation in Copenhagen (to see it again for a few days after our four Scandinavia capitals land trip in 1999), the Norwegian coast and Iceland, on a voyage which is not too expensive (we are ordinary cats of limited means). So basically, we have two choices, a fourteen days Oceania and this twelve days Azamara. The former will take in Belfast (which we just had been on Celebrity Century British Isles in 2008), and it will disembark in London (which we had been numerous times and travel between seaport and airport at London will be a chore). The latter will disembark at Dublin (we will be happy to see it again, since the last time in 2008 we had only been there a few hours). So the Azamara itinerary is good.

 

For a basic balcony cabin, Oceania will cost 2x$(6,800-850) sans air, while Azamara 2x$4,450. The 2x$1,500 difference is substantial. If Azamara will again offer the "balcony for window" fare, it will become 2x$3650 for an additional saving of 2x$800, for a total saving of 2x$2,300, then we will be quite satisfied. (We know other posters, namely Jade13, wants it at below 2x$3,000, which looks somewhat "far fetched" at the moment.)

 

We might grudgingly have to swallow the existing fare, but not happily so, and will be content with the "balcony for window", given the circumstances. We also have a Caribbean voyage planned for this coming November on board the newbuild Silver Spirit, mostly for discovering that ship rather than the ports (after spending a lot of effort studying it from its inception as a hobby). These planned voyages (if they materialize) will be quite a strain on us, but then we haven't had any trip since returning from Oceania Nautica Eastern Mediterranean plus Switzerland on land in October, 2008. Oh well .. meow!

[Jade13]

Just for example, we have been looking at an Iceland voyage for some time (one cat keeps meowing about it), we want embarkation in Copenhagen (to see it again for a few days after our four Scandinavia capitals land trip in 1999), the Norwegian coast and Iceland, on a voyage which is not too expensive (we are ordinary cats of limited means). So basically, we have two choices, a fourteen days Oceania and this twelve days Azamara. The former will take in Belfast (which we just had been on Celebrity Century British Isles in 2008), and it will disembark in London (which we had been numerous times and travel between seaport and airport at London will be a chore). The latter will disembark at Dublin (we will be happy to see it again, since the last time in 2008 we had only been there a few hours). So the Azamara itinerary is good.

 

For a basic balcony cabin, Oceania will cost 2x$(6,800-850) sans air, while Azamara 2x$4,450. The 2x$1,500 difference is substantial. If Azamara will again offer the "balcony for window" fare, it will become 2x$3650 for an additional saving of 2x$800, for a total saving of 2x$2,300, then we will be quite satisfied. (We know other posters, namely Jade13, wants it at below 2x$3,000, which looks somewhat "far fetched" at the moment.)

 

One voyage is 12 nights and one is 14 nights, so you have to calculate the per diem to know the true difference bewteen Oceania and Azamara.

[cpgrneyes]

The Oceania trip above is $11,900 ($850 per day) while Azamara is $8,900 ($742 per day). Since you like Azamara's itinerary better, and have the new wine/gratuities package included, it sounds like a good deal! I'd consider any future reductions a bonus.

[meow!]

Thank you kindly for the reply. We have booked the 2011 Azamara voyage, and will watch carefully for any fare reduction through the next year. Hopefully, we get something .. meow!

[Jade13]

Just for example, we have been looking at an Iceland voyage for some time (one cat keeps meowing about it), we want embarkation in Copenhagen (to see it again for a few days after our four Scandinavia capitals land trip in 1999), the Norwegian coast and Iceland, on a voyage which is not too expensive

 

 

For a basic balcony cabin, Oceania will cost 2x$(6,800-850) sans air, while Azamara 2x$4,450. The 2x$1,500 difference is substantial. If Azamara will again offer the "balcony for window" fare, it will become 2x$3650 for an additional saving of 2x$800, for a total saving of 2x$2,300, then we will be quite satisfied. (We know other posters, namely Jade13, wants it at below 2x$3,000, which looks somewhat "far fetched" at the moment.)

 

meow!

 

I came up with $3,000.00pp for a balcony based on the fact that the 12 night Dubai to Athens is $2,499.00 pp for the same balcony. I understand it is a repositioning cruise though so looking at a balcony in Europe for $1,000.00 more. It was based on another 2011 price for the same amount of nights. It doesn't seem far fetched to me, but maybe Azamara will sell out at the current prices. and maybe we will just fly to Iceland which is really easy from the East coast US. There are two flights per day non-stop from New York, Baltimore and Boston the last time that I looked.

[RANTHEMAN]

sawsea..I have been following(lurking) these two threads for a while with a bit of amusement.

 

We did the 14 day Best of Italy in the spring of 08 and enjoyed the entire experience immensely. And,it is my observation that that is true for the vast,vast majoritry of AZ cruisers.Despite the pontificating of 2 or 3 posters here,the bottom line here is if that experience is worth twice the price. Obviously you don't believe so and I agree.

 

While I do not earn $300,000,there are few restrictions on what I can and cannot do. So it is not cost but it is a question of value. I consider myself a discerning consumer and the value is just not there.

 

For those posters who do see value...Go for it ...you only live once.

 

A couple of asides..I find it a bit sneaky to schedule primarily 7 day Med cruises...just an attempt to more than double the previous cost of a 14 day cruise.

 

The timing of this change seems strange since the world's economic situation has been and is suspect.

 

Only time will tell if this will be successful!!

[sawsea27]

yes of course only time will tell...

 

meanwhile there are certainly plenty of choices to be had out there...for all tastes and all types of money pockets..deep and shallow...

[Jade13]

 

A couple of asides..I find it a bit sneaky to schedule primarily 7 day Med cruises...just an attempt to more than double the previous cost of a 14 day cruise.

 

 

Only time will tell if this will be successful!!

 

I agree with you and thought the same thing. But, Azamara is going after the European cruiser with the 7 night cruises. The other issue that no one is addressing is the fact that Azamara has not turned a profit.

 

Yes, I think there are other things they can do. I also suggested to Larry P. that they sell laundry packages, but really reasonable so people purchase them. Based on the mob scene in the terminal in Bangkok and also vender who came onboard the ship, I think Azamara can re-merchandise their ships because there are people on-board looking to spend money, but they want things related to their ports and locations. Even old HAL puts them to shame with their gifts shops.

[greeneg]

"So it is not cost but it is a question of value"

 

I do so agree.

[cindilouwho]

"So it is not cost but it is a question of value"

 

I do so agree.

 

As do I.

 

I very much enjoyed the bargain that I received on the Journey. I have made the choice to pay a higher price for a future sailing because I decided that it was worth it to me. If my experience is not up to the same standard I had on my last sailing then I will not return my custom to AZ. Plain and simple.

[Paulchili]

"So it is not cost but it is a question of value"

 

I do so agree.

 

While I have not done an extensive research on comparing prices between Azamara & Oceania, I will rely on my good friend here on CC (meow) to "do the math".

She has done that earlier in this thread comparing per diem costs for Icelandic cruises. It looked to me that Oceania was about $ 100 more/pp per diem (see posts #153-#155 above). If multiplied by 7 days and 2 people that would make it $ 1400 more for an Oceania cruise (even more for a 10 or 12 day cruise). Azamara now includes PPG and wine (no bonus for me), but that can also add up to a fair amount of money. Given that the 2 ships are exactly the same and service/food have been judged by many as comparable, I'd say Azamara is still a value.

Granted, not as good a value as it used to be, but they were NOT making money at those prices. How long could that have lasted?

[cindilouwho]

"So it is not cost but it is a question of value"

 

I do so agree.

 

Here is my justification for booking my Asia trip:

 

RCL - $5900 Balcony - 13 nights

AZ - $6400 Balcony - 14 nights - wine, grats, enhanced loyalty perks (Discoverer), coffees - better access to same ports - no need for hotel overnights to avoid 2 hour transfers.

 

Not even taking into consideration the smaller ship experience that I enjoy. That is subjective criteria.

[Paulchili]

Here is my justification for booking my Asia trip:

 

RCL - $5900 Balcony - 13 nights

AZ - $6400 Balcony - 14 nights - wine, grats, enhanced loyalty perks (Discoverer), coffees - better access to same ports - no need for hotel overnights to avoid 2 hour transfers.

 

Not even taking into consideration the smaller ship experience that I enjoy. That is subjective criteria.

 

Don't forget the free sodas and bottled water (unless RCL also provide this now)