Europe 2012 Very dissapointing

[rubysue]

Interesting discussion - on the one hand, I can see the concern for increasing prices, shorter itineraries, etc. On the other hand, we are eagerly eyeing the Continental Connoisseur itinerary next September.

 

I agree with DOJO466 about the time limitations for folks that are still working (boy would I love to be able to afford the time & money for 4 B2B cruises!).

 

Also, we are unhappy veterans of a 12-day Disney Cruise Line Baltic cruise in 2010 that cost us over $15,000 total to experience mediocre food, an outrageously expensive pre-cruise hotel package, clueless guest services & shore excursion staff, & many other issues too numerous to mention. We also had to cash in miles for the trip (the DCL air add-on was well over $4000 for two adults for coach) and, needless to say, we were profoundly disappointed.

 

For the same cost, we can do a 15-day on Marina in an A4 with some good incentives (or credits). A no-brainer right now.

 

By the way, our upcoming cruise on Disney Dream was booked before our bad experience last year using our Disney Vacation Club points, in case you are curious.

[meow!]

Normally, people go on Disney only because they bring children. Adults usually don't want to pay Micky Mouse and Snow White!

[emairs]

Normally, people go on Disney only because they bring children. Adults usually don't want to pay Micky Mouse and Snow White!

 

You might be surprised at the number of adults who sail on the Disney ships. My husband and I have sailed on the Magic twice - once with our daughters and once by ourselves, after the girls left home. We recently booked one of the first sailings of the new Disney Fantasy next April.

[rubysue]

Gee, last time I looked I WAS an adult, Meow - no need to be so condescending. :rolleyes: My DH & I love Disney World, belong to Disney Vacation Club and save our rare movie nights for the latest Pixar flick. Everyone has different tastes...

 

We have done 17 cruises on several different cruise lines , including four on Disney. The first three were quite nice; my 93-year-old Dad was treated like a king on Disney Magic on a Mediterranean cruise in 2007 & he was a veteran of nearly 50 cruises. That made the Baltic all that much more disappointing.

 

I brought up the experience merely to point out that Oceania still looks good as a cruise option in comparison.

[maxamize]

We choose O because of their longer voyages. What a pity.

[RJB]

We choose O because of their longer voyages. What a pity.

From the first season O started almost all their cruises were 14 days or longer. They now seem to be going away from their roots and what was very successful for them and their guests. The purpose of this thread was mostly about the duration of the new cruises, not the pricing. I agree that the cost of cruising with O has gone up alot and that is another problem, as many posters state here. Hope O knows what they are doing as we love everything about O and would hate for these changes:mad: to chase us, and it seems many other people away.

[brian_uk]

Many interesting arguments but the reality will be in 6 months time when one can get a far better idea of availability and decide whether the strategy was right or not.

 

I hope O does well but for me it is itineraries that are more imortant than days. As I have said earlier all the ships seem to be following the same old routes.

 

Brian

[GrammieK]

Brian,

Have to agree with what you said. I couldn't wait for the 2012 itineraries and yet, when I received them, I really was not that impressed. As you said, the same old routes. As a result, no new bookings for us.

K

[caribbeansun]

That is true today, previously it wasn't the case, at least in my experience.

 

Flying from Canada you would be hard pressed to get air credits anywhere near the cost of booking a regular flight. At least that has been our experience. On one of our TA's the cheapest flight I could find was almost 2X what we paid for the 14 day cruise, including flights, accommodation, and all meals.

 

I have no objection to paying for the service if it's available but building the cost into the cruise I'm paying for something I don't use which means the cruise costs me more.

 

Since we often do our own thing in ports, shuttles are something we may or may not use. Lots of people don't do tours in every port.

No question, and I was only speaking of our own preferences and wasn't looking to convince anyone that our preferences are the "right" preferences.

 

Not defending O here, but just pointing out that the things that have no value for you may for others.

 

Mo

[pacheco18]

The "value" to the individual cruiser is critical IMO.

 

I resisted Regent because we do not drink much and we never do ship sponsored shore excursions -- something we would be paying for whether we use or it.

 

But when I compared the Riviera TA for Nov 2012 (which I was really hoping to book) and the Mariner TA for the same time it was as they say a "no brainer." The itinerary and the number and quality of the ports say it all. $999 upgrades for Business Class if I want them as well.

 

In contrast, the Marina Nov 2011 TA (which we booked) has a great itinerary.

 

I guess we will just have to drink a lot more on Regent to get our money's worth! No problem.

[caribbeansun]

In order for something to be a discount it has to have actually saved you money.

 

Bundling is an effective way to obscure price increases.

 

Credit per person = $249 x 2 = $498

Cost to add one night at Grand Bretagne for April/11 sailing = $399 x 2 = $798

Cost to book the same room on starwood.com for the same date = 265 euro ~ $370US

 

Now I fully accept that O isn't paying the $370 rate and in fact it really doesn't matter what O is paying. The only thing that is relevant is does the embedded charge = the credit.

 

I am fairly certain that O has embedded a cost for that "free" night in the hotel at a rate in excess of the credit being given - that is just sound business practice and I would suggest that no business would do this for "free" - there has to be some margin built in.

 

Add to cost of cruise - say $350 x 2 = $700

Less credit for not staying = $498

Hotel cost left in the cost of your cruise = $202

 

You perceive the extra cost of $202 as a $500 discount. Clever marketing but I'm not convinced about the math.

 

I do note that your assumption is that O is not marking up the hotel in which case I'd agree that there is no net cost, I can't however consider that to be a discount.

 

I don't know who asked for it, but I see it as a discount. The fare is what it is, but now, all I have to do is opt out of the hotel and voila! I have a $500 discount off the fare. I've never spent $500 for a night in a hotel in my life (in fact, I would be hard pressed to add up all my hotel fares to $500), so it represents a real savings. I don't think the fare has increased dollar for dollar solely because of the hotel option; I think it is a clever marketing device to offer something no other cruise line offers, except sister line Regent, where it has already been a successful marketing tool.

[RetiredFL]

As a frequent Oceania guest and supporter we have to agree that the new brochure was disappointing.

We have two future cruises scheduled on "R" ships and had hoped to experience Marina or Riviera in 2012.

However both the length of the cruises and the ports did not excite us. We will probably plan a land tour for 2012 instead of another cruise.

I agree that the plan appears to be to entice the two week vacationers to book but they always filled the "R" ships with us old folks who had the time along with our lucky "juniors" who had more vacation time.

We certainly don't want to see our cruises overrun with children (and we like children!) or filled with people complaining there is no rock climbing wall or other non-cruise related activities.

Only time will tell and we look forward to future brochures to see what will entice us.

[hondorner]

...You perceive the extra cost of $202 as a $500 discount. Clever marketing but I'm not convinced about the math.

 

I do note that your assumption is that O is not marking up the hotel in which case I'd agree that there is no net cost, I can't however consider that to be a discount.

I find it interesting that you think you know what my perceptions and assumptions are. My perception is that you are putting words in my mouth, or on my keyboard as it may be.

 

I didn't bother to study your math, which may indeed be correct as far as it goes, because it has nothing to do with my statement.

 

Here is the math, simplified:

Marina, April 2011, 10 day voyage, Ocean View Cabin, $3,999 per person without a hotel credit. $3,999 per person total because there was no included hotel.

 

Marina, April 2012, same 10 day itinerary, same cabin, $4,199 per person without a hotel credit. $3,949 per person with the hotel credit of $250 (not $249) subtracted.

 

I can either take the hotel, which may or may not be some amount close the the $250 credit -- that's irrelevant -- and pay $4,199, or I can take the hotel credit and pay $3,949, $50 less than last year's cruise -- which is a discount any way you look at it.

 

The hotel cost is irrelevant, as is the deviation fee, because I can simply elect to arrive the day of sailing and not need a hotel.

 

In other words, they raised the fare only $200, while issuing a $250 hotel credit.

 

That does not take into account all the other reasons the fare might have increased, because we don't have enough information. It's entirely possible that the fare would have increased anywhere from $0 to $200 regardless of the hotel option, in which latter case the hotel is, indeed, free.

[jjeffjb]

There seems to be broad agreement that O regulars were hoping for more interesting European ports in 2012. 2011 will be our fifth summer in Europe on Oceania ships. Most, but not all, of the ports in the 2012 brochure are repeats for us. However, is it possible that we, like many of you, have simply been to all the ports that are worth visiting? Once you've done, the Baltics, Norway, Eastern Med., Western Med, UK/Ireland, Portugal, north France, what's left? We're returning in 2012 on Riviera July 7-Aug. 23 and are looking forward to visiting wonderful and familiar places.

[wripro]

I guess Oceania is now in the charity business. How nice of them to simply give us a $500 credit for not using a hotel room without raising their prices.

[orchestrapal]

i guess oceania is now in the charity business. How nice of them to simply give us a $500 credit for not using a hotel room without raising their prices.

 

lol

[Leonid]

We too have taken a pass and if the demographics change Oceania will no longer be of any interest to us. They don't seem to know how unique their product is (was)! Sad!:(

 

Having weened ourselves away from formal nights and assigned seating ( both ugh!), don't know what is left? Maybe a new cruise line on what O used to be. That's why we chose O.Yes, cruise lines morph, but I don't like into what O is morphing.

 

Looks like land trips next summer.

[The A Train]

C'mon guys. you can't invent new ports. Same old, same old will always be!

 

Venice to Barcelona will always include the normal stops dependoing on how many days.......Dubrovnik, maybe Sicily, Naples/Sorrento, maybe Sardinia, Civitaveccchia, Livorno, maybe Genoa, Cannes or Marseilles, Monte Carlo, and Barcelona, maybe diverting to Palms de Mallorca before Barcelona.

 

I'm sure "O" covers all the ports in the Med. and Northern Europe for 2012.

 

However, it's probably a valid complaint that 14+ day cruises have been reduced to nine.

[CintiPam]

I, for one, was hoping for Malta, a really neat place to visit, and one to which I would like to return because there is a lot more to see than I covered in one day. (I think it perhaps was on one itinerary for 2012.) Of course, what I really want is an Oceania ship cruise to Krakow, Budapest, Prague and Berlin for next year! :))

[stunnedinva]

There seems to be broad agreement that O regulars were hoping for more interesting European ports in 2012. 2011 will be our fifth summer in Europe on Oceania ships. Most, but not all, of the ports in the 2012 brochure are repeats for us. However, is it possible that we, like many of you, have simply been to all the ports that are worth visiting? Once you've done, the Baltics, Norway, Eastern Med., Western Med, UK/Ireland, Portugal, north France, what's left?

 

How about Black Sea Serenade? :)

[Ms Understood]

Well, FWIW I am excited to sail Riviera for 10 days next September from Lisbon to Barcelona. We have been on 6 European cruises and 1/2 the ports on this one are repeats for us but 1/2 are new. We liked the ones we have been to before and are happy to go again. And for us still working folks 10 days is perfect. As we all have been told most of our lives "You can't please all the people, all the time" but I for one am pleased to take my second O cruise on its newest ship.

----------------------

Helen

[Mura]

I can sympathize with people who bemoan the lack of new ports and too many short cruises because I've been there myself. I'm just not complaining about the 2012 itineraries because as it happens we haven't done the southern France or Italian itineraries on a cruise so the first two cruises on Riviera look fine to us. Yes, we've been to some of the ports but not most of them ... and those we have visited in the past, it's about time to go back. (If we were to go back to Lisbon for the umpteenth time I would never complain, whereas three times in Casablanca is more than enough as far as I am concerned.)

 

We did a self-drive trip to Tuscany a few years ago that started out with 4 days in Florence, then three in Pienza and we ended up in Portovenere. We didn't get to Lucca on that trip, though, and from descriptions I've read here that sounds like a good destination. Or maybe we'll leave the ship and overnight in Florence.

 

I've often seen itineraries that seem too repetitious for us ... but these are NOT. So we are all different (as we keep on discovering).

 

For the fun of it I just looked at Azamara, considering maybe we'd give them a try after reading lots of positive reviews, but most of their itineraries seem to be 7-9 days.

 

O has always had some 10-12 itineraries (or so it has seemed to me). But it IS true that they will have more of the shorter trips now. You can still find longer trips, I think.

 

I've not looked into the really long trips (like 20-35 days) because DH objects these days to being away more than two weeks. So far, he's ALWAYS been away for more than two weeks! That's his fault for insisting I do all the trip planning these days. Serves him right since I like the longer trips, just not TOO long. :D

 

Mura

[caribbeansun]

You stated/posted the $500 was a discount, I concluded that this would therefore be your perception. I didn't think I was putting words in your mouth or misrepresenting what was in your previous posting. I quoted your previous posting as well.

 

If I've misunderstood I apologize.

 

 

I find it interesting that you think you know what my perceptions and assumptions are. My perception is that you are putting words in my mouth, or on my keyboard as it may be.

 

[charleylake]

Has anyone looked at the 14 day "London to "Copenhagen" 2012 June Cruise. I would be a nice change from the Med and there are many ports we have never visited. Good Value!

[pacheco18]

I guess Oceania is now in the charity business. How nice of them to simply give us a $500 credit for not using a hotel room without raising their prices.

 

How clever of them to price gouge us on the hotel and then allow us not to be price gouged and convince us that it's a discount. Best marketing ploy so far.