Europe 2012 Very dissapointing

[hondorner]

How clever of them to price gouge us on the hotel and then allow us not to be price gouged and convince us that it's a discount. Best marketing ploy so far.

I'll try one last time. Below is a comparison of Marina, on a 10 day cruise from Barcelona to Rome, in April, in 2011 and 2012. There is a slight difference in itinerary: 2011 stops at 10 ports (counting the destination, and 2012 stops in 8 ports, with overnights in Livorno and Civitevecchia

 

.......April 16, 2011...April 2, 2012...Difference

OS.....14,499.............13,999........-500

VS.....11,499.............10,999........-500

OC......9,499...............9,999........+500

PH1.....6,999...............6,899........-100

PH2.....6,699...............6,599........-100

PH3.....6,499...............6,399........-100

A1.......5,499...............5,399........-100

A2.......5,399...............5,299........-100

A3.......5,299...............5,199........-100

A4.......5,199...............5,099........-100

B1.......4,999...............4,899........-100

B2.......4,899...............4,799........-100

B3.......4,799...............4,699........-100

B4.......4,699...............4,599........-100

C........3,999...............4,199........+200

F........3,599...............3,599.........No Change

G........3,499...............3,400.........No Change

 

IN a total of 17 categories, 2 increased, 2 had no change and 13 decreased. The increases were no doubt due to the incredible popularity of both the Oceania Suites and the Ocean View cabins.

 

Debate could run for days as to why there were decreases in the fares in the face of increased costs -- perhaps it's due to the changed itinerary and perhaps it prepares the way for increases on April 1 -- but regardless of tthe debate, the fact remains that as of today, the fare for most categories is lower in 2012 than in 2011, and a one night hotel stay has been added!

 

How is that gouging, or a "fake" free hotel room?

[pacheco18]

I'll try one last time.

How is that gouging, or a "fake" free hotel room?

 

Don, we will just have to agree to disagree. I and many others do not see this as "free" or a "discount." We see it as a deceptive marketing ploy. Obviously you see it differently and you really want others to see it your way. You may convince some others out there. I recognize how loyal you are to O and perhaps you see the glass half full while others see it half empty. Such is the way of the world. No big deal.

 

Everyone will see it the way they want to and make their own decision about how Oceania is handling things. As is apparent from this thread there are many disappointed O-lovers out there. Nothing either one of us says will change that.

[hondorner]

Laraine, I agree with your last statement. I try to remain unemotional, but when I read things like "gouging" and "fake" it makes my blood run just a little warmer. As you just demonstrated, there are ways to express negative opinions that do not take on radical overtones.

 

The Oceania board has enjoyed, for many years, a reputation as one of the friendliest and most even-handed boards on Cruise Critic. In the past year, I have seen that deteriorate, mostly from a few folks who may have had experience on other CC boards that are more contentious and brought that experience to the Oceania board. Perhaps it is a reflection of the ethical and political waves apparently capturing much of the nation, with outrage and cynicism becoming the new norm.

 

It brings out the worst in me, as well, and for that, I apologize.

[pacheco18]

Don, I saw nothing offensive in your responses and certainly nothing to apologize for. And I hope you saw nothing offensive in mine. My opinions are just that -- and I see no reason to hold back when I feel strongly about something. These boards are a place where everyone should feel free to express their opinions as long as they do not engage in ad hominem attacks. Opinions are personal and are to be respected -- even if we disagree vigorously.

 

You are passionate about Oceania and you defend the line vigorously. I love Oceania too, but perhaps I see a few more flaws than you do. LOL

 

That bridge is still available by the way . . . . .. I got it wholesale. LOLOL

[yorkiemomjn]

Laraine, I agree with your last statement. I try to remain unemotional, but when I read things like "gouging" and "fake" it makes my blood run just a little warmer. As you just demonstrated, there are ways to express negative opinions that do not take on radical overtones.

 

The Oceania board has enjoyed, for many years, a reputation as one of the friendliest and most even-handed boards on Cruise Critic. In the past year, I have seen that deteriorate, mostly from a few folks who may have had experience on other CC boards that are more contentious and brought that experience to the Oceania board. Perhaps it is a reflection of the ethical and political waves apparently capturing much of the nation, with outrage and cynicism becoming the new norm.

 

It brings out the worst in me, as well, and for that, I apologize.

 

Don, sad to say, but I think that is exactly what is happening! :(

[2kiwis]

Not trying to bad mouth O, as they have been our cruise line of choice for the past 6 years, but they have made a complete u turn from what they have been. What we loved so much about them they no longer are. Cost has gone up alot and itineraries are no longer exciting. Do they think that they can fool us with smoke and mirrors? :mad:

 

It is all very disappointing isn't it.

Having just finished our 10th cruise with O (another a 35 day one), we decided to go to Europe next year but can't really find anything we want (even B-2-B).

Maybe it is time for a change - it is a shame as Oceania is the only line we have ever cruised on.

 

It seems as though O is looking at a different market now?

Just wonder how successful that will be as they are going to be competing with a lot of other cruise lines and first timers may find the cost of Oceania hard to justify, along with the repeat cruisers.

Hopefully another line might fill the niche being vacated by O??

[Wildblue]

Just to give my own perspective, I'm 36, my DW 34. Now that we're a "little" older, we're more interested in quality in our purchases. It is the reputed QUALITY that drew us to Oceania, and we booked our first O cruise as this fall's Insignia TA, to enter O's offerings at a more affordable price. We're looking forward to it.

 

Looking at O's 2012 offerings, there's many that we'd LOVE to do, but don't quite have the financial means some of you do, so they're out of our reach. Unfortunately, it looks like even our equivalent TA sailing in 2012 has gone up in price, possibly because it's on the Marina now instead of Insignia.

 

So those who postulate that O is re-orienting to a younger demographic, that may not be the case. We can't afford to spend that much on a cruise, regardless of how long the itinerary is. We think we're going to love our upcoming O cruise. I do hope it's not the only one we're going to be able to afford, though, until we get rich!

[potterhill]

We did the Insignia TA in 06 (can't believe it's been that long) and we loved it. So much so that we booked it for 2012.

 

I am sure you will love it too.

 

Mo

[capecodder2]

Like the 2012 European cruises or not, O had it's biggest opening selling date ever, so the glass is full for many out there. Actually, aside from less 14 day cruises which are my preference, I don't see what the fuss is about. How many "different" itineraries can one line offer to a destination continent with who knows how many ships competing for dock space? Anyway, leave room for us, we have 2 more O cruises this year, can't think about 2012 yet.

[caribbeansun]

I have to admit that part of our consternation is that fact that we have enjoyed our experiences on O - each more than the previous one but we are getting priced out of the market and will likely have no choice but to use an alternative next time around due purely to economics. We don't begrudge O that - but it does disappoint us that we can't keep up with the rate of increases being implemented.

 

Actual cost of 12 day cruise (Rome to Venice) in 2010:

 

B1 = $9,398

Less: Air credit = $1,260

Pure cost of cruise in 2010 = $ 8,138

(Note: we upgraded to PH2 just prior to sailing date)

 

 

Comparable 10 day cruise in 2012 with hotel = $10,798

Add: 2 days per diem to remain comparable = $2,160

Less: Credit for not taking hotel = $500

Less: Air credit = $1,600*

Pure cost of cruise in 2012 = $10,858

 

Increase = $2,720 or 33.4%

 

When I compared the PH2 actual to 2012 the percentage increase was virtually identical.

 

*I was pleasantly surprised to find the air credit was higher in 2012 than 2010 which was the opposite of what I'd found when looking at a 2011 cruise.

[meow!]

... we are getting priced out of the market...

 

...Increase = $2,720 or 33.4%....

That is 15% per year compounded, a shade higher than the 11% per year compounded before.

 

Remember our similar postings a few years back (which many opposed)? It looks like gradually, more people are coming to the same conclusion! As usual, time will tell.

 

P.S. We never complained about Oceania as a product, we just kept complaining about its fare increases, at roughly double the rate of the other lines through the years.

[TERRIER1]

We are relatively new to cruising and have only sailed with Oceania. Our fifth O cruise is coming up in May 2011. We are in the process of booking a 2012 cruise and I have to admit I looked elsewhere this time even though we love O. We will still book O but the itinerary offerings and pricing from O make other lines look good. Some ports I could visit over and over again but others like Casablanca I don't want to visit at all and it keeps showing up in O cruises.

 

Azamara is cheaper and comparable to O if you look at the comments from the CC boards where folks have sailed both O and Azamara. Looking at the itineary and pricing on O for 2012 makes Seaborn look pretty good. Seaborn pricing is not that far off from O and may drop. The only reason we are again booking O is the dress code and smoking policy compared to Seaborn and the itinerary we wanted on Azamara didn't match our timimg.

 

For 2013 we may go with Azamara and combine it with a land vacation in Europe. Have to wait and see since many things change. We also have to see if we like the larger ship.

[wripro]

Regent came up with the same baloney of a free hotel room on;y they give you a $600 credit for not using it. Obviously, the same parent company of both cruise lines has figured out it's a good source of revenue.

[sable1]

Remember us from 2008, Rome-Sydney? Such a great cruise.

 

I was just wondering if you have ever done a European River cruise?

We are booked in Oct. from Bucharest-Amsterdam for 27 days. It's just something different from the ocean cruises we have been on and keep repeating so many ports. You might want to look into it, just a thought.

 

I was also disapointed with the new brochure. Wanted to book Maiden Voyage on Riviera, but Travel Agent could only get a B4, not an inside that we prefer. We may move back to the Mass Market lines after the Regatta Trans Canal next month unless O offers a spectacular "Special" deal.

 

Best wishes to you both.

Joanne, the chocoholic & John

[pacheco18]

We may move back to the Mass Market lines after the Regatta Trans Canal next month

 

 

I have 2 O cruises booked,1 Regent cruise booked and 1 Celebrity booked and another Celebrity to be booked shortly.

 

There are a number of us O lovers who also cruise Celebrity. (I know SteveBruin does) among others. The new S class ships are spectacular. The value is tremendous. We often cruise with another couple and we love traveling together period.

 

While there may be some here who turn their noses up at Celebrity, I think the food and service are outstanding. Moving back to the mass market lines does not have to be tragic for anyone. No, it's not O, but there are many pluses and much to be enjoyed.

[LuAnn]

I have 2 O cruises booked,1 Regent cruise booked and 1 Celebrity booked and another Celebrity to be booked shortly.

 

There are a number of us O lovers who also cruise Celebrity. (I know SteveBruin does) among others. The new S class ships are spectacular. The value is tremendous. We often cruise with another couple and we love traveling together period.

 

While there may be some here who turn their noses up at Celebrity, I think the food and service are outstanding. Moving back to the mass market lines does not have to be tragic for anyone. No, it's not O, but there are many pluses and much to be enjoyed.

 

on your comments about Celebrity...we too sail on them and have loved the S class..perhaps the Aqua Spa class with the Blu restaurant might appeal to many O sailors? LuAnn

[pacheco18]

on your comments about Celebrity...we too sail on them and have loved the S class..perhaps the Aqua Spa class with the Blu restaurant might appeal to many O sailors? LuAnn

 

Not just Aqua Class, LuAnn. As you know, on some sailings a suite on Celebrity costs less than an inside or at least an outside on O! The Specialty Restaurants (which you pay for) are superb. Celebrity now offers anytime dining as well. It's just another option for those who feel the price hike is making O prohibitive or for those who prefer to spend less.

[dwelsh]

Having been on CC for 11 years and on the "O" thread since its start I think this is the most negative thread I have ever read. :o:o:o:

It looks like some the usually" happy cruisers" are really upset with the 2012 plans, but, the record bookings "O" are reporting, bodes well for their future.

Please contributors keep your cool, it's only a vacation discussion, not anything really earth-shattering. :(:(

[LAexNY]

Regent came up with the same baloney of a free hotel room on;y they give you a $600 credit for not using it. Obviously, the same parent company of both cruise lines has figured out it's a good source of revenue.

 

Oh, my goodness! It's almost as if they are trying to run Oceania as a business!

[Senior Citizen]

Having been on CC for 11 years and on the "O" thread since its start I think this is the most negative thread I have ever read. :o:o:o:

It looks like some the usually" happy cruisers" are really upset with the 2012 plans, but, the record bookings "O" are reporting, bodes well for their future.

Please contributors keep your cool, it's only a vacation discussion, not anything really earth-shattering. :(:(

 

David, I have to agree with you. This thread is getting negative. But I have noticed other O threads that have been negative too recently (within last 4 months or so that I have been reading this general section). Why? When I am on the ships, I find that 99 percent of the people are wonderful---they are positive and have such fascinating backgrounds and are so well-traveled and such great conversationalists.

 

So what is going on here??? Aren't we on this thread/board to share information and ideas and not to attack one another? I haven't been in the general section board of any other cruise line so I have nothing to compare this to.

[spindrift]

Sable1 - what river cruise line are you using for that trip?

[TERRIER1]

This is interesting. If you opt out of the hotel you get a $500 credit and as DOn has said previously there are very few of us who will pay $500 a night for a hotel. However, if you decide to take O's air without the hotel then you come in on the day of the cruise (depending on your conenctions). If you want to come in the day before then you pay the deviation fee. So it's a combo package and O is making money on the hotel.

[ebobh]

I have to agree with DWelsh and others re the tone and sentiment of folks at times on this and other boards. An unfortunate evolution in the media are the blog responses to news articles; I had always hoped the great mass of humanity was decent and well-intended. Afte reading the NY Times, LA Times and other sources, and seeing the vitriol of so many who I am glad don't live near me (I think) who feel free to torch whomever over almost any whatever, I have my doubts.

 

I have enjoyed almost all the people I have found here, and have sailed with a number of you on O with fabulous results. Although I might not get upset if they don't do exactly what I want, have my specific needs in mind, etc., I also realize they are balancing the whims of 600-1200 people on vacation, and I am sure that gets dicey at times. It's a shame if the minor inconveniences ruin what would otherwise be a grea vacation for some.

 

Considering that we have fellow Americans, Brits, Canadians and others at war, we should all remain mindful that we are blessed to be able to even consider many of these things, and that a chance to see other cultures, meet new people and enjoy the hospitality of O is pretty cool, all things considered.

 

I spent almost four decades in a largely dangerous and adverse career, though, so I'm just thankful to actually get up in the morning, have coffee with my wife (to whom I am grateful for having put up with me...) and to be able to look forward to enjoying th fruits of my labor. Sometimes I lose sight of that, so I empathize with others who, also, get frustrated. All in all, though, we are a pretty lucky lot.

 

Thanks, Bob H

[Archie's Mom]

I am coming in a week early and staying a week post cruise on the Rome to Rio 2012. So I am already taking the air deviation. Is that charge $200 per person? I am renting a house in Umbria before the cruise and will drive my rent car to the port. So I also do not want the transfer. So I get a $500 hotel/transfer credit and pay $400 for air deviation. Am I not still coming out ahead by $100 for the cruise portion of my vacation? (The amount my TA will charge on my card) And, yes, Mr. Horner, the cruise price is the same as the 2011 brochure price. So I am quite pleased with O's pricing. The "free" air is also a substantial coach-class savings on this trip over buying it myself without O's bulk discount. So O is a company with marketing savvy that I am happy to do business with.

 

As a retired marketing executive, I would assume the free hotel night is a good marketing ploy for O as it will bring in new passengers. Not only is it "free," but it takes away the chore of decision making and transfer arranging for the new traveler. The hotel offer takes away a certain amount of vacation stress for the new traveler and also helps O keep passengers from missing the boat, so to speak. But O is not making money from me if I select to decline the free hotel and take the credit. Finding the right price point is a bit more complicated, but it seems to me that they are doing something right and receiving appropriate recognition from the travel industry for doing what they do so well. (And cutting their loses when they don't, as in Alaska)

[sable1]

Spindrift,

 

The company is Vantage. So far I have been pleased with our booking process.

We were able to get the air fare credit and book our own air as we are extending our stay pre & post cruise.

Paid in full several months in advance to get a discount, also.

Also received a $100 p.p. referral bonus from a previous pax. which was a nice benefit. If anyone is interested in receiving that bonus, contact me. oceania2008 @ yahoo.com (Save this for future use.)

Daily tours are included. Some optional tours are offered.

 

LuAnn & Pacheco, we like the Mass Market lines, didn't mean to imply there was anything wrong with them. They are just a different experience. In fact, in Jan. went to Mexico on HAL Oosterdam for two weeks to escape the cold. Especially like Celebrity's Almond Croisants, yummy.

 

Happy cruising to all,

Joanne, the chocoholic