Mexico Itinerary changes - Sapphire Princess

[caribill]

Puerto Vallarta is far safer than many cities in the United States.

 

Last paragraph in the following is inetresting

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g150793-s206/Puerto-Vallarta:Mexico:Health.And.Safety.html

[grandmaa]

All cities of the world have crime issues. On the front page of the NY Times today they are addressing Puerto Rico and the crime level there...and yet Princess has not done anything about not sailing from that port city. So, all who have posted about PV being crime ridden

you have to look at the big picture. When traveling or at home we all should look around and pay attention to where we are and who is near us..and "stuff" happens...that is life.

We choose to not live in a bubble..that is one of the reasons why we travel..and with that comes risk. JMHO.

[RickEk]

Last paragraph in the following is inetresting

 

http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g150793-s206/Puerto-Vallarta:Mexico:Health.And.Safety.html

 

Well, that's a "wiki" sort of page... anyone can edit it, so you have to take it all with a "grain of salt"...

[mgm61]

In May, a Canadian man living in Puerto Vallarta was stabbed to death and robbed in his home. Princess declined to say how the incident, or any other specific incident, informed the deployment changes.

 

This is a lame decision on Princesses part. This is like saying there was a stabbing in Los Angeles so we better not go. And if you haven't heard I believe it was on CNN that the ATF is the ones supplying the guns to Mexico. They thought they could track the guns and thereby get the Cartels. The upper management of the ATF should be fired.

[Cruise Junky]

In May, a Canadian man living in Puerto Vallarta was stabbed to death and robbed in his home. Princess declined to say how the incident, or any other specific incident, informed the deployment changes.

 

This is a lame decision on Princesses part. This is like saying there was a stabbing in Los Angeles so we better not go. And if you haven't heard I believe it was on CNN that the ATF is the ones supplying the guns to Mexico. They thought they could track the guns and thereby get the Cartels. The upper management of the ATF should be fired.

 

He was also robbed of $20,000 cash that was in his home. Obviously targeted for the money. I think Princess is way off base taking PV off the itinerary.

[5:00_Somewhere]

Hey Somewhere guys, Tell your parents to go to the Sapphire princess roll call. There are more than 4 of us cruising on Dec.10th. lol. Lucy R.

 

If Princess lowers their rates.... lots of Californians and Arizonians will book at the last minute. Lucy R.

 

Thanks, Lucy, I'll let them know. Although, they are away (camp hosting at a campground - it's their thing) through October with no computer access, and even when they do have access they're not very "adventurous". It took us forever just to get them to use the thing for email. ;) But, I'll let them know.

[melbur]

I understand the whole security/crime issue, but $$ must play a part.

PV is a great port and crime is likely no greater there than anywhere else.

Has Athens been removed from Europe itineraries? Protests there have been violent and going on for a while.

 

And they were quick to put Egypt back on the Europe cruises despite Travel Alerts.

[WINEMANVISALIA]

of course you feel safe with the golden potato heads (i.e. i know they are supposed to be easter island scuptures)...Icon has some cool architecture...http://www.iconvallarta.com/homeintro.html

 

I quess it makes us 2 stupid as we have just bought property there also

this year at the Icon Vallarta. We did a mex riviera Cruise in

2001 and fell in love with Pv and have been going there since and like other

cities in the World if you hang out at the wrong places with

the wrong people you are bound to have something bad happen.

Anyhow i am happy and feel safe in PV and that is why we have

just bought there.

Sea ya

Eric

[kath00]

I understand the whole security/crime issue, but $$ must play a part.

PV is a great port and crime is likely no greater there than anywhere else.

Has Athens been removed from Europe itineraries? Protests there have been violent and going on for a while.

 

And they were quick to put Egypt back on the Europe cruises despite Travel Alerts.

 

It is to Princess' major disadvantage not to be able to go to a port of call like PV, partly because they lose all of their excursion money, and partly because no one is going to want to sail on a 7n cruise with essentially 1 decent port. So I am not sure if you are saying that they pulled out for $ reasons?? They clearly don't want this situation.

 

FYI, when ships pull out of a port, it's not decided on one crime published in a paper. It's decided on based on intelligence given to the cruise line by the US and MX govt. It's not like the president of Carnival reads the LA Times and says, "OK, we need to cancel these ports." I think we need to give credit to them for probably weighing all the risks and benefits. Probably there are indications that the crime will worsen over the next 6 months. I guess we will have to watch and see. My DIsney WOnder cruise is still scheduled to go to PV in December for Christmas week. Disney is also pretty conservative so we'll see what they have to say as time unfolds.

[sassyredhat]

Well, whichever line goes, we will probably be on it. (well except for CCL's Splendor or Disney. Mike won't go with tons of kids). :)

We like going just to be on a ship. Can you say 'addicts' ? :D

Pat

[dazee8]

I vote for Vancouver - Hawaii 10 Day Cruise. Hawaii to Vancouver - 10 Day Cruise. Vancouver to San Diego - 7 Day Cruise. San Diego to Vancouver - 7 Day Cruise... REPEAT.

 

I like this schedule a LOT! Make it happen Princess!

:)

[LucyR.]

I think Princess corp. office has other reasons for changing the itinerary.

 

They only changed it for the Month of DEc. I am guessing they are getting ready to go into dry dock for Jan. 2012, so they decided to make changes just for the month. Crime reasons is a lame excuse. When I go on my cruise on Dec. 10th I will find out from the crew workers the real reasons for the changed itinerary. I like to play detective and I will get different reasons for the change.

 

My friend spent 3 months this year in Puerto Vallarta. They toured the countryside and went everywhere and there were no major crime problems.

 

I live in a so-called safe community and a man mugged an old lady right in front of my condo. He got caught right away.

 

Believe me.... I will find out the truth. The truth always comes out.

[coba57]

This year Norwegian and Carnival cancelled Mazatlan on me...both companies did so with very little notice...in the case of Norwegian with only 2 days notice. Neither company did anything to compensate the passengers like free drinks. In Norwegians's case, we had to divert to Ensenada to drop off a sick passenger and we spent another day at sea travelling at a snail's pace rather than receiving two days in Cabo.

 

Cancelling Mazatlan was unjustified. People freely chose to travel to Mexico-nobody was forcing us to go there and Norwegian and Carnival should have honored the ports advertised and changed later cruises to exclude Mazatlan. After all we weren't going to Egypt or Libya.

 

Cancelling Puerto Vallarta makes the Mexican Riviera nearly worthless. Visting Cabo for two days isn't an adequate substitution because the ships dock in the bay and several hours are wasted ferrying passengers to shore. To top it off, passengers must report back to the ship in early evening so the ship can leave Cabo to return the following day-thus the opportunity to explore Cabo nightlife is non-existent.

 

Somehow I think the decision to cancel Mazatlan and now Puerto Vallarta boils down to saving $$$$$$. Docking in the bay at Cabo is cheap compared to the port charges imposed by the other Mexican cities. I think the only city on the Pacific coast of Mexico that should be avoided is Acapulco. In my opinion something stinks about the entire way the Mexican Riviera is being handled by the cruise lines. I think the cruise lines are trying to flex their muscle by showing Mexican port authorities that no port city is essential anymore (to include PV) and that they better reduce their rates or see their business disappear altogether.

 

I for one chose my cruises based upon the ports listed in the advertisement. I then decide whether I feel safe enough to visit that city and I think both Norwegian and Carnival should have honored the ports listed in their Mexican Riviera cruises instead of degrading and cheaping my trip by taking away Mazatlan and giving me two crappy days in Cabo instead and in the case of Norwegian-one crappy day in Cabo. Without Puerto Vallarta, don't even bother to book a Mexican cruise unless you enjoy having several days at sea with lousy ports to visit.

[ChrisB123]

I would LOVE it if there was a change from Ensenada to Canada! :D

 

No one would debate the fact that crime in the U.S. is up, however, as one other poster pointed out, the Mexican justice system and police are NOT as trustworthy as ours. There is also the point, that Princess (as well as other lines,) may know something we don't know. Homeland Security may have a hand in these changes. To say that Princess is doing

it to increase revenues is just silly. It looks like Princess just can't win. They'd be sued if someone was shot or kidnapped on an excurision. On the other hand, they are being berated for changing the ports.

 

I feel bad that the everyday worker at the ports are losing their Livelihood but do not feel responsible for it.

[MissDiva1]

I would LOVE it if there was a change from Ensenada to Canada! :D

 

No one would debate the fact that crime in the U.S. is up, however, as one other poster pointed out, the Mexican justice system and police are NOT as trustworthy as ours. There is also the point, that Princess (as well as other lines,) may know something we don't know. Homeland Security may have a hand in these changes. To say that Princess is doing

it to increase revenues is just silly. It looks like Princess just can't win. They'd be sued if someone was shot or kidnapped on an excurision. On the other hand, they are being berated for changing the ports.

 

I feel bad that the everyday worker at the ports are losing their Livelihood but do not feel responsible for it.

 

Believe me since Mexico is under scrutiny you will hear anything and everthing that happens there regardless of it having to do with the drug cartels......why would it be silly to say they are doing this for financial reasons? They are a business aren't they? With all the media hysteria and California economy in the dump they are being shoved out of the West Coast like the other cruiselines.....since they can't keep their ships full, sailing around Cabo and Ensenada in circles will save them big bucks on fuel.......

No cruise ship passenger has been killed or dramatized unlike some of the Caribbean Islands.........and they have not pulled out of Jamaica, Costa Rica or St. Thomas.....

[cruisingalaska]

I book a cruise based on itinerary. I am glad Princess gave

early notice to change ports, before final payment date. I guess

some who booked non-refundable air and travel insurance

will be out of that money.

[caribill]

Mexico's reaction may be found at http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2011/06/puerto-vallarta-mexico-princess-cruise-travel-vacation-safety/175366/1?csp=Travel

[Cruise Junky]

This was front page news on a local Vancouver newsite today with the reaction of local travel agents saying they just don't understand.

[runnerodb83]

Well, now might be a time for innovation from Princess. Granted their itinerary adjustments are limited in the winter as the cold weather cruises don't sell that well going north of LA in December/Jan/Feb. I hope they can find some additional stops in the relatively warm Sea of Cortez (I know HAL has a few itineraries), and those cities are a bit more authentic than Cabo too. I think, it would be a stretch and have to be financially viable, but princess might consider the equivalent of a private island destination somewhere in Baja California Sur. Granted, the presence of actual islands are limited, but if they could purchase some land somewhere a hundred miles north of Cabo where there are no establishments and make another private island type area, it could pay off.

 

If I was RCL, I would bring either the Oasis or Allure with all their activites, and do the 7 day route from LA. Stopping at Cabo and maybe La Paz, and then parking it in the Sea of Cortez for a day or two where its warmer and calm.

[Cruise Junky]

Well, now might be a time for innovation from Princess. Granted their itinerary adjustments are limited in the winter as the cold weather cruises don't sell that well going north of LA in December/Jan/Feb. I hope they can find some additional stops in the relatively warm Sea of Cortez (I know HAL has a few itineraries), and those cities are a bit more authentic than Cabo too. I think, it would be a stretch and have to be financially viable, but princess might consider the equivalent of a private island destination somewhere in Baja California Sur. Granted, the presence of actual islands are limited, but if they could purchase some land somewhere a hundred miles north of Cabo where there are no establishments and make another private island type area, it could pay off.

 

If I was RCL, I would bring either the Oasis or Allure with all their activites, and do the 7 day route from LA. Stopping at Cabo and maybe La Paz, and then parking it in the Sea of Cortez for a day or two where its warmer and calm.

 

NOOOOOOOO I can't even imagine the nightmare of tendering 6,000 + people. They'll never put Oasis and Allure anywhere that tenders are involved.

[MissDiva1]

If I was RCL, I would bring either the Oasis or Allure with all their activites, and do the 7 day route from LA. Stopping at Cabo and maybe La Paz, and then parking it in the Sea of Cortez for a day or two where its warmer and calm.

 

LOL! Oasis or Allure docked in La Paz:confused: Now than't funny!

[runnerodb83]

LOL! Oasis or Allure docked in La Paz:confused: Now than't funny!

 

Good points about the tender situation. But Grand/Sun class ships wouldn't be too bad. As we all know though, even 2600 can be a challenge to get everyone off via tenders. Hardly worth getting off in cabo with past itineraries for only 6 hrs which would have to include a tender. At least with 2 full days there the tendering shouldn't be so bad.

 

Was disappointed to hear that the new Royal will have 3500+...

[treasure4two]

It iwll be interesting to see if Carnival Splendor will change its ports, as they are still scheduled to do PV and Matzalan over the same period that Princess changed their ports. Being under the same larger corp, Carnival, I am concerned they will change our cruise too. We live on East Coast and have already booked our airfares, so we are basically locked in. We have booked the Early Saver, so there is a penalty if we cancel. Does Princess have a program like that where there is a penalty if they cancel before final payment? Thanks!

[TJH]

For many years cruise lines have more or less aquired a so what attitude with their passengers.Issues regarding food standards,tours,liquor rules as well as cleaning standards.If you dared to complain you more or less recieved a so what attitude.As a past shareholder of CCL I found this blatent dis-regard to a passengers concerns troubling.Now they are cutting out ports that may in the future have some problems.Well thank God they are concerned enough for passengers safety to substitute P.V. Encinada[GIVE ME A BREAK]If I was booked on this cruise I would cancel.Ironically I was going to book this cruise for my wife and I as our Christmas gift.They have gotten away with so much for so long that know they know they can do anything and passengers will just kneel and take it.

[gottago2mexico]

Remember when the first cruises pulled out of the Mexican Riviera this year? The stated reason wasn't due to safety concerns, it was due to economics. The cruise lines openly said so. See the Los Angeles Times article on the subject from January. It is quite telling about the economics of the Mexican Riviera cruise industry.

 

However, when a couple incidents in Mazatlan a week later got massive press coverage, the press morphed the story into that the pullout was due to safety concerns. The cruise lines rode that wave as it put them in a better light than that they were losing money, and if people weren't cruising to Mexico, they were more likely to cruise with that line's new destination instead, creating more profits. It also created an "easy out" for them and they seized on it.

 

Princess was the first cruise line to begin pulling out of the Mexican Riviera back in 2009 when interest waned due to press coverage of the border disputes (remember these cruises depart from Los Angeles and San Diego, so these are on the news nightly), the swine flu scare, and the overall drop in tourism due to the economy in the US, and other cruise lines began to follow. It appears they are continuing to lean that way. This all started back in 2008 when Mexico jacked up the fees for the Mexican Riviera by about $15 per passenger, causing a big commotion among the cruise lines, and this is another tool the cruise ships can use to beat on the government to cut them more slack.

 

Meanwhile, a spokesperson for Carnival tells USA TODAY the line has no plans to cancel calls in Puerto Vallarta. It is telling that Princess' parent company, Carnival Cruise Lines, is continuing to serve Puerto Vallarta with no plans to drop it. Why would the parent company not feel these "safety concerns"? Why would they relocate to Ensenada that was allegedly dropped last year for "safety concerns" of its own?

 

It is obvious - there is only sufficient interest in the Mexican Riviera to support "x" number of cruise ships, and empty ships mean you have to cut services. Cabo and Ensenada are closer, saving a lot of money, making it financially feasible to continue a shorter cruise. This will increase demand for Carnival's other ships that go to Puerto Vallarta, and as they fill up again, other ships will come back. That's why the artificial time table of "November and December are out, but we might be back in January".

 

It's ludicrous to think that they are worried about safety concerns when they didn't blink an eye when gunmen in Nassau robbed 18 cruise passengers at gunpoint while on a cruise-sponsored excursion last year, or when a teenager was caught in the crossfire during gang violence in St. Thomas last year, or when a cruise passenger was murdered in Antigua the year before. 17 cruise passengers were robbed at gunpoint in St. Kitts last year, a cruise passenger was beaten and raped in Nassau this year, and earlier this year a cruise passenger was robbed, stabbed, and killed in Naples. The cruise lines didn't change a thing. Have any violent crimes against cruise passengers in Mexico been reported? No.

 

All of these countries (except Italy) have higher homicide rates than Mexico, as much as three times higher. So does Puerto Rico, the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, and other major cruise ports where they are sending the ships they're pulling out of the Mexican Riviera. It's obvious that safety is not the reason, as American Airlines is expanding flights into Mazatlan. It's just more financially practical to say so.

 

When the demand increases, the ships will be back. Until then, the best thing to do is either to visit by air, or book one of the remaining Mexican Riviera cruises to boost the demand.