My public letter to Royal: why do you keep pushing me away?

[spookwife]

You know I am the exact opposite.. never before cruised with Royal( First one is in May). but DH and I are looking for a cruise lien to be loyal to.. we are Childfree( as opposed to Childless.. there is a difference) and in our Mid 40s.

 

so far, we have been happiest ..on DISNEY because despite being a family friendly corporation they have been the most consistent with regards to making adults feel comfortable and giving them an ENFORCED child free venue or three. to the extent that on more than one occasion we have seen Ship's Officers reprimanding free range children* and once was indeed for hitting all the buttons on an elevator before quickly jumping off... My only complaint is their main dining rooms.. the quality is meh at best.

 

I chose Enchantment for one reason.. it's 20 minutes away and we did not want to fly anywhere. I booked a suite.. BEFORE they allowed rug rats into the CL for cocktail hour( and yes the prior rules were a point in deciding what sort of cabin to get) I am going to make the best of it.. as this is a welcome home from way too damn long overseas saving the universe cruise for my Husband and I will do all the things those indignant people say I should do iffin I don't wanna be around their precious wittle darlings.

but as the OP has stated.. I should NOT HAVE TO. just like you say well It's my vacation and I should be able to spend it with my kids enjoying themselves so should I be able to reasonably expect some enjoyment of my own.

 

the sooner corporations realize that the world does NOT revolve around families( as defined by some antiquated notion that you are not a family unless you procreate) the sooner they will realize that those of us without kids? often have MORE discretionary income and are willing spend it on alcohol and gambling.. you know.. cruise lines biggest money makers.

[yarlenna]

What we need is for RCI to ENFORCE the rules that it already has in place with regard to children.

 

The solarium is for ADULTS ONLY. There needs to be a large sign as you enter the area. On Liberty last month, the only sign I saw was in the pool itself which many parents honestly did not even see. The pool patrol were good about asking them to leave, but if there had been a large sign I think many would have just stayed away to start with.

 

Specialty dining with children is before a certain hour - make sure that this is observed when taking the reservation.

 

Perhaps that there needs to be parental guidelines spelled out at embarkation and in the daily compass regarding unattended children.

 

After reading the thread on parents wanting their teens to be out and about the ship on their own well after the 1am curfew, nothing surprises me.

 

RCI needs to stop being so afraid to correct bad behavior when it comes to children. Should they really care if they offend the bad parents who let their kids run amuck? Really? I would think that they are better served retaining the well behaved customer who will not alienate the other passengers from booking their next cruise. And that does not just mean the childless folks. There are plenty of well behaved children whom I would have no issue cruising with.

 

I hope that RCI hears and does something about these child issues.

I do not like Celebrity. Can you say boring?!?! I don't want to spend my hard earned money only to find that the ship I am on is full of kids running amuck, or my expensive balcony is useless because somebody uses his like a smoker. I used to LOVE RCI. I started cruising with them in 1980. Their loyal program doesn’t do it for me. I just want to get the cruise vacation I pay for.

[north29]

As a retired educator, I have see it all, good and bad, from parents and students. I would like to go on and make points but not possible and enough space or time on this thread, for the most simplified statement about it, much of poor behavior from parent and kids is do to respect, or no respect to anyone or any thing. There is not much RC can do about that, but enforcing known rules is something they can do.

I have been loyal to Royal, for I just like their product and especially for the perks, of diamond, etc, but to have them taken away or the distance to the carrot level changed was hard to swallow for loyal RC cruisers, yes I do understand their problem, but you would think a company with the smart management, would have for seen the issues. I do believe they could have handled it in a much less negative way, by grandfathering people who were so close to the carrots, and creating the new rules for low level or new C&A members.

As to the stock, I was lucky, I bought mine a about $7 a share, so all is good right now, but again to change the stock holder rules, well not good.

[lady_cruiser]

LAWGIRL, Congratulations! I could not have said it better myself.

[jdmerck]

I cruised alot as a child, my parents took me every year from age 11 till i was 17 loved it, i knew right from wrong or my parents smacked me in front of everyone!! Today i am 35 years old and i have a 8yr old son and we started cruising when he was 5!! he has been on 2 cruises and will go on his 3rd in October!! i understand where everyone who are childless are coming from who wants to spend money to have someone elses child make your vacation miserable!! NOT all children run around like heathens!! i just want to clarify that, my child knews right from wrong, what he can and cannot do, i do not even let him swim in the pool by the movie screen...they made a pool area for him, he is to use it WITH ME THERE, in todays society parents are too scared to scold or punish thier kids, and in most cases the kids have more right then the child, yes the workers on the ship should inforce the rules, thats why we make rules, i dont know where i am going with this cause just seeing that one say that they appeal to parents with kids who dont wear suits and tuxedos, not every parents out there with kids are like this, i wanted to make that clear...

[Cindy]

I agree with the OP on many points. Although we've cruised on different lines and don't have a "lofty" status with RCCL, we cruise as a couple and are constantly seeking out adult venues and experiences.

Because I'm an educator, my options for adult cruise experiences are non-existent! In March, my DH and I will be taking our 8th consecutive Spring Break cruise (on three different lines). Knowing how many children (usually well in excess of 1,000!:eek:) are on those sailings, we booked an OS thinking that the CL would be a nice "adult haven" for a quiet pre-dinner drink and grown-up conversation. Unfortunately, even cocktail hour has been made "child-friendly," taking away yet another experience that is geared to adults.

Maybe they are trying to push adults over to Celebrity...it certainly seems as if couples travelling without children are the forgotten group. I'm getting ready to retire, so I will soon be able to travel when it is less crowded and less expensive!:) I've already booked our first "post education" cruise, and it is an 11-night on Holland America. I'm really wowed by some of their itineraries, I LOVE that they've maintained some degree of traditional cruise formality, and their suite benefits are great! Does that mean I'll never sail Royal Caribbean again? No, but it will certainly be at a time when we're not likely to be the forgotten 50-somethings paying top dollar for a suite on a ship that has as many children as adults.:eek: Flame away!

[labates629]

JDMerck, it is a shame that there are not more parents out there like you who clearly know how to parent their children, but sadly, the majority are the opposite. I do want to point out that the OP did not say ALL kids, but just that some were behaving in a way that is not appropriate, and spoiling her cruise experience.

I do think it's more of a society problem though, as some of the educators who have posted on this thread have mentioned - the standard of parenting is declining, and the respect for authority (parents and teachers/other adults) is declining also. It is impossible for schools to properly discipline kids these days, and parents are not doing a good enough job at home. The peer pressure is immense also.

Lawgirl - perhaps you should try a weekend (Mon-Fri) cruise on the Monarch or Majesty, those are typically kid free and may restore your faith in RCCL. Older ships, but well maintained/great crew and a different vibe to the large family ships.

I also thing that RCCL are doing whatever they can in times of recession to stay afloat (pardon the pun!) and cutting costs/catering to the masses (including the failure to enforce rules for fear of upsetting lackluster parents) which compounds the problem.

It would be great if on some of the larger ships (where space allows) they could have two CL lounges - one for families, one for adults. That way, you would hope they could enforce the 'no kids' rule in the adults only lounge!

[catergirl]

quote: 'Maybe lowering expectations of how you think a company should reward your repeat business is something to consider. No lambasting here...just my perspective. Enjoy the Allure-they are amazing ships! '

 

we are platinum on princess and find their benefits a bit better and they seem to add to them. i know a lot that wouldnt change, but we get free(big amount) of internet and with owning CCL(princess stock) they are combinable with deals, TAs, future cruise deposits OBC etc just a thought;)

[galavant3]

Have you considered all inclusive lines? Once you factor in airfare, pre-cruise hotels, drinks, excursions, tips, speciality restaurants, transfers etc, in many cases the price isn't that much more. Plus, many times the standard cabins are quite large so no need for a suite.

 

We are Diamond on Royal also but when cruising without our kids we now look at other lines. The missing perks aren't noticeable since everything is included.

[LuckiStac13*Majesty*]

That's easier said than done. I'm former military and have a career in law enforcement, so speaking up comes naturally to me and I do it without fear. However, in a day and age where parents (not all) seem to be more offended by another person scoulding their kids than the misbehavior itself, it tends to create arguments where nothing is accomplished. Then, those who spoke up are left defending themselves rather than the original misbehavior being corrected by the parents. Great message to the kids, huh? :rolleyes: Anyways, the last thing I want is to be kicked off the ship because of the behavior of others.

 

BTW, a few years ago on the Adventure, we had a problem with kids doing cannon balls. The problem was, the parents were joining them. Several of us did complain to staff and when they said something, a near fight broke out. Security had to be called. I knew I made the right decision by not confronting the parents because had they said to me what they said to the pool patrol, that would have been my final day on RCI.

 

Paul, great post.

[jdmerck]

Yeah i just wanted to make aware that is wasnt all children and parents, no i do not think your child needs to be in an adult only lounge!!! thats why they put Adventure Ocean on board, now if your child has a problem and hates AO then sorry you need to forfit your "adult" time, YOU are the one who brought your child on vacation, not the other person..We usually cruise with my parents in October cause my child had year round school and thats his 2wk break, thought on the FOS there would be little to no kids BUT it was Europes break so they were in droves!! so misbehaved and the parents the same way, so if the parents are doing nothing, its not the childs fault, if my son is misbehaving i will take him away from the situation no time outs for him thats whats wrong with our kids...He always asked to go in the hot tub even the one where the kid pool is, but i said no (even though if you put a hot tub where the kid area is, your asking for trouble, IMHO)

as a Florida resident i DO not take my child to Disney, Universal and Seaworld, its to expensive its cheaper to go on a cruise where everything is included for a week, then a weekend at Disney!! ok im sorry im rambling :)

[ERIE 13]

Can't agree more with OP. Over the last few years RCCL has more then watered down its product, its more like it has submerged its loyal customers. They should just do away with Crown and anchor benefits cause if you look at what is listed for each category, there is not anything worth wild anymore compared to what is was before. Keep changing the rules RCCL and there won't be any more Loyal to Royal. Maybe that is what they want. I will still cruise with RCCL but my expectations and my recommendation to others about cruiseing with them is not what it used to be.

Please send that letter to RCCL.

[kruzerci]

I have been holding this in and just have to get it out to my fellow CC posters (with full knowledge that I will be lambasted by some of you).

 

I have been loyal to Royal despite their every attempt to alienate my kind: a childless couple who want a nice cruise and the benefits of repeat customer appreciation.

 

You see, DH and I don't have children and don't particularly want to have tons of kids on our vacation. Yet, we like to cruise and can't afford to book ultra luxury or adults only cruises.

 

Yes, there are very well behaved children out there. But even those of you who parent such children must admit that there are also numerous kids whose parents let them run amuck on a cruise.

 

So we follow the rules: we take long itineraries on the off season, avoiding Holidays, etc. (except for the upcoming Allure trip, which I am doing just to see the ship). We go to the solarium, choose late seating, go to only late night shows.

 

Even so... There was the cruise where the kid cannonballed into the HOT TUB knocking over my $8 drink while dad told him he was cute. The kid who threw ice down from above while I was on my balcony. The one who thought it was fun to run back and forth between his inside cabin and his parents balcony room slamming doors. (yes, his parents left two elementary aged kids alone in the inside cabin while they enjoyed the balcony cabin).U

 

So, we book suites... At least we get some quiet time in the Conceirge Lounge. No more as most of you know. Yes, I like the free drinks. But not as much as I like (or used to like) having grown-up conversations. A place where we met the same adults every night to make new friends, where they had my favorite cocktail waiting...without worrying about kids running around . It is just a different atmosphere without kids.

 

Here's my main point AND my weariness with Royal. I play by your Rules. When booking a cruise, I don't shop Princess or NCI, I go to Royal. Why? I like your product, but you also lured me in with your programs and insincere promises of benefits. So if I am loyal, why do you keep changing your rules?

 

First, I buy stock because I get a shareholders discount. Whoops, sorry we are changing that rule so you can't combine it with other discounts and it is now worthless (except for the stock which plummeted).

 

Next, I reach Diamond only in time to have the Conceierge Privileges taken away.

 

Now, We are close to D+... Too bad, we're making your nightly respite cocktail hour into a family friendly soda fest.

 

So my years of loyalty, my tens of thousands of vacation dollars devoted to Royal mean this little.

 

Here's the thing.. I can't instantly become Diamond or Diamond Plus. It takes years, so when making my choice of cruiselines, i HAVE to rely upon what yoy say your benefits are. I booked all these cruises based upon what I expected to get in return. It is unfair to keep changing these rules. You suck me in, then water down your benefits.

 

Yes, I can start over with some other line and I will start shopping around. But what a shame - what a spit in the face to loyal customers - that I should have to do so.

 

When will they stop changing the Rules and realize that it takes all types (including us with no kids) to fill a ship.

 

OK, start lambasting me....

 

Totally agree.

[ducklite]

I've been tempted to call that "urban myth" or would have be Nautical Myth?;) I've never seen it.

 

So if you haven't seen something it must not be true?

 

I saw it in a hotel in Boston a couple months ago. Check this out. Parents with preschooler get on, and he starts naming the numbers as he's pushing the buttons. Parents are applauding him and telling him how smart he is. He pushed 10 buttons. As he was getting ready to push "11" I finally told the parents that the kid might be smart but they were very inconsiderate because now we have to stop at every floor. They had the audacity to tell me that their child's intellectual development was the most important thing. I got off at the next floor to get on a different elevator and told them that their child was going to end up being a moron because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. The look on their faces was priceless.

 

PS--I've seen the same thing happen on RCCL several times. Out of control kids not being supervised, hitting every button, playing tag in the hallways. One of many reasons you couldn't pay me to cruise with RCCL again. Greyhound of the Seas might be a better name.

[Debde]

As for choosing another line, my point is I shouldn't have to. I understand business, but I can't achieve loyalty status overnight. When I pay money in expectation of reaching certain benefits, and then the rules are changed especially as to those benefits I most want, it is disappointing. Royal could grandfather rules, or have some type of other kid friendly perk for families with suites or families with D+.

 

Why not travel just to travel, vacation and see the world.

Why travel to get to another level?

Reward programs always change so why would you even want to invest in something that you know down the road is going to be modified.?

 

As for all the folks that really don't like being around children-why not a Sandals resort-adults only? But that's a silly idea to some and I do not understand that. I'm not saying it to be rude-just saying if children ruin your vacation-go where they are guaranteed to not be.

[shipshape sam]

My two cents:

 

I agree that Royal Caribbean should keep the 'Happy Hour' adult only AND issues with adults acting like kids, INHO, are as frequent as bad behavior by kids.

 

We too tend to sail on longer cruises, in the off season to minimize exposure to kids.

 

But, I am continually amazed by bad behavior by adults. Cutting in line, sneaking booze onboard, misleading staff to get extras, sharing of beverage package drinks, holding pool lounge chairs for excessive timeframes, holding 5-6 seats at production shows, etc...... Wonder where the kids learn their behavior from. Not always the parents.

[BruceMuzz]

Lawgirl,

 

A basic understanding of how cruise lines really operate might be helpful here.

 

Money is ALWAYS the main theme for us. Everything we do is aimed ONLY at making more of it. Money is the bottom line, the top line, and every line in between. For any large cruise line, making you - as an individual - happy is very low on our priority list. Making large demographic groups happy is another story.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI learned long ago to segment their demographics to their different brands in order to more successfully make more money. By tweaking the product - and the rules - they encourage different segments of society to move or stay on different brands. Currently RCCL is going down-market to capture more Middle American families and first timers. This move puts RCCL head to head with Carnival, by far the most financially successful cruise line in cruise history. Currently Celebrity and Azamara are moving up market to capture the upper tier of Middle America, hoping to compete with HAL and the smaller upscale lines.

 

Big Cruise line companies like RCI also learned long ago that first time cruisers spend far more money and complain far less on cruises than repeat cruisers do. There is currently a very large back-log of potential first time cruisers. So long as those people exist, your value as a repeat cruiser is very low. The cruise lines will give you plenty of inexpensive lip service about how much we value your loyalty - but we are not about to spend much money nor effort to bring back someone who will most likely not spend much money on our ships. We give priority to first-time families and children. That's where most of our profit is coming from.

 

You may not like to hear these facts. I certainly am not happy about them. But that is the financial model the major cruise line companies have adopted. I can only suggest that you might use this information to better plan your cruise vacations in order to be a willing participant rather than an unwilling victim.

 

If you want to be seen, considered, and treated as a valuable individual with specific needs, you really need to buy up and out of the Mass Market. In that case RCCL is not for you.

 

If you do not mind being treated as one small cow in an extremely large herd of cows, "Royal" as you call it, is for you. Personally I do not see anything Royal about it.

[Cruisin824]

 

the sooner corporations realize that the world does NOT revolve around families( as defined by some antiquated notion that you are not a family unless you procreate) the sooner they will realize that those of us without kids? often have MORE discretionary income and are willing spend it on alcohol and gambling.. you know.. cruise lines biggest money makers.

 

The cruising world does revolve around families as well as individuals. You and I will not be here forever so they want children to be on a cruise as they are the future revenue generation. Had my wife never been on a cruise I would have likely never gone on one as I never went as a child. By taking my children they are exponentially more likely to cruise when they are adults as they have enjoyed the experience. Their future revenue trumps the desire to have a child free booze bender in the CL every night. Sorry if this offends you but it is what it is.

 

I cruised alot as a child, my parents took me every year from age 11 till i was 17 loved it, i knew right from wrong or my parents smacked me in front of everyone!! Today i am 35 years old and i have a 8yr old son and we started cruising when he was 5!! he has been on 2 cruises and will go on his 3rd in October!! i understand where everyone who are childless are coming from who wants to spend money to have someone elses child make your vacation miserable!! NOT all children run around like heathens!! i just want to clarify that, my child knews right from wrong, what he can and cannot do, i do not even let him swim in the pool by the movie screen...they made a pool area for him, he is to use it WITH ME THERE, in todays society parents are too scared to scold or punish thier kids, and in most cases the kids have more right then the child, yes the workers on the ship should inforce the rules, thats why we make rules, i dont know where i am going with this cause just seeing that one say that they appeal to parents with kids who dont wear suits and tuxedos, not every parents out there with kids are like this, i wanted to make that clear...

 

This should be interesting in a little while as you will get the "Sure your kid isn't like that :rolleyes:" posts.

 

Why not travel just to travel, vacation and see the world.

Why travel to get to another level?

Reward programs always change so why would you even want to invest in something that you know down the road is going to be modified.?

 

As for all the folks that really don't like being around children-why not a Sandals resort-adults only? But that's a silly idea to some and I do not understand that. I'm not saying it to be rude-just saying if children ruin your vacation-go where they are guaranteed to not be.

 

I think I will give you my flame proof vest once I am done with it as you will be crucified for not being adult only friendly. Too bad everyone forgets they were a child once. I sure hope they weren't a nuisance to the entire population of the earth when they were young :rolleyes:. As for the levels....the tone of the OP said it all, they are not getting their free belly up to the bar in the CL time they were hoping for. Such a shame to pay so much for a cruise yet you can't enjoy it without free alcohol. They want perks...here is one. You are on a cruise that many people in this world cannot afford. Enjoy your PERK!

[struther1]

OK. My two cents worth. As far as kids, no biggie to me. I find greater problems (although minor) with drunken loud adults. As for C & A benefits at certain levels, I only know what level I'm at when I get to a cruise and it's on my card. It's a free program, so they can change the rules whenever they want. I don't pick RCI because of the C & A benefits, I pick it because I like cruising with them. I have only been cruising since 2000 and hear people complaining about how RCI has declined. I don't see it in the 12 years I've been cruising (change to survive in a tough economic times is not decline in my opinion) but maybe that's because I always keep in mind, when I'm in the Caribbean in February, I could be back freezing my butt off in Ohio, like today.

[rljrdn]

I couldn't agree with the OP. DH and I are childfree and are not kid haters. Rather we would like to see that the rules that are in place are actually enforced and that parents and their kids respect other passengers instead of looking at it as ME, ME, ME.

 

We cruised in February on Princess and I swear there were only 20 kids on the whole ship. It was great. But I think the average pasanger age was 55. lol.

 

I'm very nervous because in 10 days we are cruising with both sets of parents, my brother in law and his daughter, our niece, who is 4. She is often times NOT well behaved and the grandma lets her get away with everything. She is ok with just her dad but she knows she rules the roost with grandma. DH and I expect very different behavior out of her when she is around us and I'm scared that I will overstep my bounds on correcting her when grandma won't. I'm not worried about them trying to have her in adult only areas, that won't happen, it's more like grandma will say "don't do that" but there are no consequences so niece just does it anyway. Praying it goes well because we REFUSE to have the kid who is disrespectful and disruptive to others.

[Cruisin824]

We have two children, aged 7 and 10, and I have to agree with you. We've only done one cruise and recently booked our second, both with RCI. We loved Jewel of the Seas in 2006 - gorgeous ship, professional and friendly crew, super food and service, etc. We like RCI's combination of naval architecture, activities, and itineraries; it just seems to "fit" us.

 

I cringe when I read the threads about people bringing young children to Chops, Portofino, or 150 Central Park because the minimum age limit is "only a suggestion".

 

 

I personally do not understand this. Does my children being in a specialty restaurant that I am paying for make your Filet taste worse? I could understand an infant crying but you mention that you have a 7 and 10 year old. So do you not take them out of fear that someone may not like you bringing children into the specialty restaurant? My children will be there, well behaved, enjoying the cruise experience. If that offends anyone in the room they are welcome to use the same door they entered through to leave. Once again it all boils down to people not minding their OWN business.

[Karter]

One solution to the kids issue is to travel when there are no kids allowed on board. Examples - Freedom on 11/11/12, Jewell 1/28/13 and Freedom 11/10/13.

[Debde]

 

I think I will give you my flame proof vest once I am done with it as you will be crucified for not being adult only friendly. !

 

thank-you!! there is safety in numbers!!:D

 

BruceMuzz-spot on!!!

[vickiw0318]

Doesn't mass market mean something that appeals to everyone?

 

I understand that RCI doesn't always enforce its own rules because of concern that it might ofend a passenger. I have long thought and frequently posted that if the rules were consistently and politely enforced that no one woud be offended. Such as "I am sorry but there are no children under sixteen allowed in the Solarium since it is an adult area. Children are welcomed on at the .... We try to have facilities geared to all age groups." Or even "Children of Suite guests and D+ members are welcome in the Concierge Lounge. For the comfort of our other guests, please keep your children with you at all times."

[struther1]

I personally do not understand this. Does my children being in a specialty restaurant that I am paying for make your Filet taste worse? I could understand an infant crying but you mention that you have a 7 and 10 year old. So do you not take them out of fear that someone may not like you bringing children into the specialty restaurant? My children will be there, well behaved, enjoying the cruise experience. If that offends anyone in the room they are welcome to use the same door they entered through to leave. Once again it all boils down to people not minding their OWN business.

Excellent post :)