Age Discrimination

[boogs]

Celebrity selects the excursions. Since the majority of cruisers are over 65 these days- perhaps they shouldn't select tours that wouldn't be available to their cruising base. Just my two cents (I'm 47 btw but I won't always be- God willing.)

 

Most guests on a Celebrity Cruise are in their late 40s and early 50s. Guests on Celebrity's European cruises are generally 55 or older, while Caribbean cruises during school vacation weeks attract families with teens and younger children.

 

Source: http://seniortravel.about.com/lw/Travel/North-America-and-Caribbean/Celebrity-Cruises-Profile-of-Celebrity-Cruises.htm

[Suzy Smith]

I have been unable to participate in cycling tours at some ports, because they impose a minimum height restriction and as I am only 5ft 1, I did not qualify. There are always plenty of other things to do and I just chose another activity and had a great time.:)

 

But now you have me thinking. Was I being discriminated against? Should I be indignant? Should I have posted a call to arms on CC for all short people to rally round and petition Celebrity to put an end to this injustice? Even though my legs may be too short for me to sit on the saddle, I could cycle while standing on the pedals and would probably manage far better than somebody who may be taller than me but is less fit or carrying more weight.

 

Now I am really annoyed!!:mad: I am also over 65, so after reading about the age discrimination, I am doubly annoyed!!:mad::mad:

[Floridiana]

You guys are really funny and all over the place with your arguments. :D

 

In the meantime, I have found accurate descriptions of the hikes on St. Kitts.

[ORV]

Most guests on a Celebrity Cruise are in their late 40s and early 50s. Guests on Celebrity's European cruises are generally 55 or older, while Caribbean cruises during school vacation weeks attract families with teens and younger children.

 

Source: http://seniortravel.about.com/lw/Travel/North-America-and-Caribbean/Celebrity-Cruises-Profile-of-Celebrity-Cruises.htm

 

I appreciate you citing your source, I wish more people would do that, but I find this:

 

"Cruise Participant Demographics

 

Celebrity Cruises does not release this information, but, according to Cruisecritic.com and Cruisemates.com, most guests on a Celebrity Cruise are in their late 40s and early 50s."

 

still rather suspect. I'd love to know where CC and Cruisemates got their information.

 

From my limited Celebrity experience I would think it trends more toward that than over 65, but obviously itinerary and time of year will certainly play a factor in the age groups on board.

[fleckle]

Reading this thread, I am wondering if the age restrictions on excursions are enforced or if they are just listed for the legal protection or convenience of the tour operator.

 

When we order tickets for ship excursions and they are delivered to our cabin, although it is possible that the shore excursion people might actually check birth dates, it seems more likely that they merely charge the stateroom account and put the tickets into the envelope for delivery.

 

I have never been on an excursion where the tour operator asked for proof of anyone's age (other than for purposes of driving a vehicle), although I have been on a number where they checked weight.

 

It is understandable that they might question someone who appears extremely frail or otherwise unfit but it seems unlikely that a tour operator would routinely be asking people for proof of age.

If any have had such an experience, I hope they will post here and tell us about it.

 

[smtcan]

I just turned seventy and regard myself as being quite fit. I have undertaken a 60 KM fundraising walk seven times in the last eight years. However, I would hesitate to book a tour that was age restricted, even though I am sure the cruise line doesn't cross reference bookings with ages. I think that the reason there are restrictions is an insurance issue, and if an accident occurred, even for a reason not connected with individual fitness, someone who had knowingly circumvented the regulation would not be covered. It would be annoying to be excluded from a hike that I am sure I would be fully capable of completing, but sometimes that is life!!

Sheila

[VillaHappy]

...almost forgot, add an extra dry Bombay sapphire martini and I am in heaven.

 

That sounds almost too pretty to drink!!! :D

[boogs]

I appreciate you citing your source, I wish more people would do that, but I find this:

 

"Cruise Participant Demographics

 

Celebrity Cruises does not release this information, but, according to Cruisecritic.com and Cruisemates.com, most guests on a Celebrity Cruise are in their late 40s and early 50s."

 

still rather suspect. I'd love to know where CC and Cruisemates got their information.

 

From my limited Celebrity experience I would think it trends more toward that than over 65, but obviously itinerary and time of year will certainly play a factor in the age groups on board.

 

I'm in my early sixties, and my wife in her late 50s. Neither of us are retired. We typically take 12 to 14 day cruises that require overseas travel, always in March or April, or September to November. On most Celebrity cruises we have been on I have met and seen more people younger than me than older. If I had to guess, I would say that the average age of the passengers on our cruises was somewhere between 50 and 60. I would not consider that to be "old" by any means. :)

[Merriem]

I just turned seventy and regard myself as being quite fit. I have undertaken a 60 KM fundraising walk seven times in the last eight years. However, I would hesitate to book a tour that was age restricted, even though I am sure the cruise line doesn't cross reference bookings with ages. I think that the reason there are restrictions is an insurance issue, and if an accident occurred, even for a reason not connected with individual fitness, someone who had knowingly circumvented the regulation would not be covered. It would be annoying to be excluded from a hike that I am sure I would be fully capable of completing, but sometimes that is life!!

Sheila

 

It is my understanding that if you do not have cruise insurance, you are not covered for anything. Correct me if I am wrong.

[smtcan]

We always have our own insurance but I doubt very much if it would cover us if we were doing something that had a condition on it that we had deliberately circumvented. Insurance companies are notorious for looking for reasons not to pay out. Companies providing tours should also carry insurance for participants in their activities.

Sheila

[dkjretired]

It is my understanding that if you do not have cruise insurance, you are not covered for anything. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Medicare doesn't cover out of the country....

[Jborosara]

Reading this thread, I am wondering if the age restrictions on excursions are enforced or if they are just listed for the legal protection or convenience of the tour operator.

 

When we order tickets for ship excursions and they are delivered to our cabin, although it is possible that the shore excursion people might actually check birth dates, it seems more likely that they merely charge the stateroom account and put the tickets into the envelope for delivery.

 

I have never been on an excursion where the tour operator asked for proof of anyone's age (other than for purposes of driving a vehicle), although I have been on a number where they checked weight.

 

It is understandable that they might question someone who appears extremely frail or otherwise unfit but it seems unlikely that a tour operator would routinely be asking people for proof of age.

If any have had such an experience, I hope they will post here and tell us about it.

 

 

In Alaska, we could not book a white water rafting excursion for our then 11 year old through the cruiseline.... once on the cruise tour portion of the trip, there was no issue with his age...

[ghstudio]

It is my understanding that if you do not have cruise insurance, you are not covered for anything. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

I assume this is meant to be a us statement for those on Medicare...because those just on Medicare a and b are not covered outside the us. However if you have a medigap policy, it may cover expenses incurred outside the us up to some limit....additionally some Medicare alternative policies cover expenses incurred outside the us.

 

As always, it pays to understand your insurance and not guess what you think it's may cover. Read the policies. This is especially important if you buy travel insurance because they are very specific in what they cover and there are big differences which you won't see if you just read the marketing summary or think that if celebrity or your ta sells it, it must be a good policy..please don't assume that.

[travel gal 1953]

years ago we went up dunns river falls.my x husband was young and in great shape.he ended up having to pull half the older geezers up the slippery path.i didnt think that right since why should someone else risk their safety and also possible injury..now im a geezer and if i cant do something i wont complain.until recently there is nothing i cant do.after hruting my foot i wont walk our usual 25 miles a day!

[Going Coastal]

From a different perspective, I think Celebrity and Royal are better than most of the lines at offering at least one tour at each stop which is not as strenuous for those of us who want to see as much as possible but are not up to 'climbing the falls'.

[Merriem]

I assume this is meant to be a us statement for those on Medicare...because those just on Medicare a and b are not covered outside the us. However if you have a medigap policy, it may cover expenses incurred outside the us up to some limit....additionally some Medicare alternative policies cover expenses incurred outside the us.

 

As always, it pays to understand your insurance and not guess what you think it's may cover. Read the policies. This is especially important if you buy travel insurance because they are very specific in what they cover and there are big differences which you won't see if you just read the marketing summary or think that if celebrity or your ta sells it, it must be a good policy..please don't assume that.

 

Insurance doesn't pay anything. Some secondary policies will reimburse you when you return, and if you buy cruise insurance and decide to have a heart attack, make sure you bought the higher policy which pays for it at the time, and not something you have to pay and wait to get reimbursed. We did buy that kind of policy on our trip to Vietnam and Hongkong. We didn't need it, thankfully, but if something had happened we would have been covered by the premium trip insurance. I cannot imagine that many people could write a check for $50,000 for medical care or evacuation in another country and then have to file on their cruise insurance after they get back.

 

Our secondary insurance does cover us, but we would also have to pay upfront and then submit and accept what they would allow, which certainly wouldn't cover the full bill.

 

I got sick on a cruise on Celebrity and had about an $800 bill. I submitted it to our insurance and got about half back. That was our primary as we did not have medicare at the time.

[cruzsnooze]

Not allowing 2 year old in the specialty restaurants or allowing 6 months to cruise IS THAT age discrimination too?

[ghstudio]

Insurance doesn't pay anything. Some secondary policies will reimburse you when you return, and if you buy cruise insurance and decide to have a heart attack, make sure you bought the higher policy which pays for it at the time, and not something you have to pay and wait to get reimbursed. We did buy that kind of policy on our trip to Vietnam and Hongkong. We didn't need it, thankfully, but if something had happened we would have been covered by the premium trip insurance. I cannot imagine that many people could write a check for $50,000 for medical care or evacuation in another country and then have to file on their cruise insurance after they get back.

 

Our secondary insurance does cover us, but we would also have to pay upfront and then submit and accept what they would allow, which certainly wouldn't cover the full bill.

 

I got sick on a cruise on Celebrity and had about an $800 bill. I submitted it to our insurance and got about half back. That was our primary as we did not have medicare at the time.

 

Lots of mixed and incorrect messages in the quoted post...

 

1) Secondary insurance automatically becomes primary insurance if you have no primary insurance....eg. medicare a/b with no other coverage.

 

2) The fine print in your policy will tell you if the insurance company will authorize payment for services directly...and that's unrelated to primary/secondary. It will also tell you who has to approve payments, etc. I just checked a random secondary coverage policy at squaremouth.com and the policy says: "The company will advance payment to a hospital, up to the maxium benefitif necessary to secure your admission to a hospital because of accidental injury or sickness"

 

3) The insurance covers what it covers. If you had a policy with a deductable or copay, the insurance would not reimburse you the full amount. I believe that the medigap plans that do cover out of USA medical costs have a deductable, but check your policy. If your primary has a deductable, I don't know if a secondary will cover that portion of the bill....I'd have to read the policies. The policies most always have a statement that they will cover usual and customary charges in the locality where you need coverage. Again, read the fine print...it's pretty clear.

 

4) The safest way to travel is with a credit card with a large credit limit...for emergencies. Some can't do this, but before travelling, you might call your credit card company and ask for an increased credit limit. Sometimes it doesn't matter if the insurance will cover you or not...if you have to get home, you have to get home, etc.

[phoenix_dream]

It is my understanding that if you do not have cruise insurance, you are not covered for anything. Correct me if I am wrong.

I think the statement about insurance here is meant to mean that both Celebrity and the tour operators have insurance (at least the ones coordinated through the cruiseline). If they are deemed to be at fault for an incident, then perhaps they will be required to pay - although it may take a lawsuit to make it happen.

[Merriem]

I think the statement about insurance here is meant to mean that both Celebrity and the tour operators have insurance (at least the ones coordinated through the cruiseline). If they are deemed to be at fault for an incident, then perhaps they will be required to pay - although it may take a lawsuit to make it happen.

 

Found this interesting article on cruise critic and this is just a cut and paste about shore excursions

 

Q: What if something bad happens during my bungee-jumping shore excursion?

A: Cruise lines have been amping up the thrill factor with more adventurous shore excursions, but Harvey cautions that insurance often specifically exempts hazardous sports and activities. Bungee-jumping or zip-line-loving cruisers do have options, though: Travelex Travel Select lets you purchase an upgrade to waive the exclusion; Travel Guard Adventure Travel Protection is an example of a new breed of policy specifically designed for the modern adventurer and doesn't come with hazardous sport exclusions. And, policies often won't cover competitive sports, competitions and tournaments. So, for example, you aren't protected if you're injured while taking part in a 10-K race organized ashore.

[Merriem]

More good info, and I would say "you are on your own" in the case of an accident.

 

Cruise ship passenger Injuries and accidents sometimes occur while visiting ports of call during a shoreside excursion. Cruise lines often argue that they are not responsible for “off-ship” injuries to their cruise passengers because of a signed waiver of liability clause or, alternatively, that the shoreside concessionaire is an “independent contractor” over whom the cruise line had no control.

 

Is the Cruise Line Liable for an Accident that Occurred on an Excursion?

 

 

Possibly: Often times, an excursion ticket or contract contains exculpatory clauses purporting to relieve a cruise line and/or shoreside excursion company from liability arising from an accident or injury occurring during a shoreside excursion. These exculpatory clauses if narrowly and unambiguously worded have been enforced by certain courts to the benefit of shoreside excursion companies and cruise lines. Courts, however, generally do not like to enforce such clauses and an experienced maritime practitioner is needed to convince a judge why a particular clause is unenforceable thus, paving the way to a successful monetary resolution of your law suit against the cruise line and/or shoreside excursion company. Independent of your claim against a shoreside excursion company, a claim may exist against the cruise line for the negligent selection of the excursion company or based upon other legal theories

[ghstudio]

I think the statement about insurance here is meant to mean that both Celebrity and the tour operators have insurance (at least the ones coordinated through the cruiseline). If they are deemed to be at fault for an incident, then perhaps they will be required to pay - although it may take a lawsuit to make it happen.

 

That's no different than normal everyday life. If a sign falls off a building, hits you and you are taken to the hospital, if you have no insurance, you have to pay yourself and then hire a lawyer to collect the money.

 

My guess is that if celebrity was clearly at fault, they would do everything they could to make sure you are OK because they know it will cost them far more in court. "since the passenger wasn't able to pay the doctor, we let them bleed to death when they were hit by a piece of the ship that fell on them" would not play well in court. Excursions are a much greyer area because Celebrity would claim that they have nothing to do with them, etc. They also would probably lose in court, but the excursion company might be far less willing to pay in advance.

 

Obviously, everyone should have some insurance that covers them while on the trip....or self insure realizing the potential costs.

[Merriem]

http://cruisewithmike.wordpress.com/2011/07/06/secrets-of-cruise-ship-shore-excursions-revealed/

 

More good information.........

[smtcan]

Found this interesting article on cruise critic and this is just a cut and paste about shore excursions

 

Q: What if something bad happens during my bungee-jumping shore excursion?

A: Cruise lines have been amping up the thrill factor with more adventurous shore excursions, but Harvey cautions that insurance often specifically exempts hazardous sports and activities. Bungee-jumping or zip-line-loving cruisers do have options, though: Travelex Travel Select lets you purchase an upgrade to waive the exclusion; Travel Guard Adventure Travel Protection is an example of a new breed of policy specifically designed for the modern adventurer and doesn't come with hazardous sport exclusions. And, policies often won't cover competitive sports, competitions and tournaments. So, for example, you aren't protected if you're injured while taking part in a 10-K race organized ashore.

 

That was the point I was trying to make. Not being from USA, I have no idea about Medicare coverage but if you have private, or cruise line, travel insurance, an excursion that is not considered (by the tour operator) to be suitable for your age group would be regards as hazardous, so would not be covered.

Sheila

[Merriem]

It is a very interesting topic