Age Discrimination

[natshala]

I agree 100%. about a year ago I joined a local hiking group. they classified hikes as novice, moderate, advanced, strenuous. I showed up one morning for a moderate hike and saw a bunch of people with white hair sticking out from under their caps.......

 

I thought to myself this should be "no problem" if all these "old people' can do it..........

 

 

I'm sure you can figure out the rest........suffice it to say I learned my lesson on that one :):):)

 

A nice "older" couple hung back with me to encourage me and they told me they hike the Canadian Rockies in the summer....and all of these other mountain ranges.........

 

Never judge a book by its cover.......

 

I loved this post!

[bplazo]

There was a age limit on a tour with for an ATV excursion of 55. My husband was not too happy but we found an independent guide.

 

I sometimes think that there has to be some discrimination because some tours are not appropriate for some of the real young children. For example, I would not take a 2 year old cave tubing.

[Travel Writing Mary]

A forest hike is advertised as minimum age 4 and maximum age 65 .... So a 4 year old can do what a 65 year old can't? It's one of the shore excursions on St. Kitts. Did anyone take a hike on St. Kitts? Not the 6 hour volcano one but the 4 hour tour with a stop at the batik factory.

We did some hikes in the Caribbean and my husband was over 65, but he is in amazing shape and has hiked many high points in the U.S. 12 miles with a 35-pound backpack is a walk in the park for him. That said, a couple hikes we did were very tricky because the terrain was muddy and slippery. One hike (I forget which Caribbean island it was, now) we were putting our feet down under leaves and couldn't see exactly where we were putting them. There were a lot of STEEP up and downs. I wish I had had hiking poles...I got some for Christmas after that cruise! You can always check the tripadvisor descriptions and ratings of the various hikes to help you decide.

[coolbluegreenseas]

There should not be an age restriction for exactly the reasons mentioned earlier. I have kicked the butt of kids half my age on hikes, and I am in my later 40s. Also, I have had my butt kicked by a 70 year old woman in spinning class. The human body is amazingly resilient, provided you take care of it. Just ask my father at 71 who still has no trouble ticking off a 5 mile run on hills with nary a thought! :D

[rebeccalouiseagain]

When I was 27 (and I looked hot back then), I asked a group of 70 something's if I could join in their volleyball game. They said "are you any good?" I was thinking- "I'm 27! How bad can I be?"

 

Well those 70 something's were really good- no kidding. I wasn't any better than them and I was in good shape for a 27 year old.

[cruisestitch]

Stories like these are memorable because they are the exceptions.

 

The odds are heavy that persons over the designated age would have trouble on these excursions, in the opinion of the operator of the tour. And the tour operator's opinion is really all that matters in these cases, isn't it?

[susietb]

It is age discrimination. There are no age restrictions on Princess, Holland America or Cunard. Why Celebrity does this escapes me.

 

We and several of our very fit 68 year plus friends just hired a private guide and did it on our own and saved a lot of money as well.!!!

[coolbluegreenseas]

Ah, Susie, stereotypes die hard as does false logic and poor reasoning skills.

 

So, tell me, who makes it to the caldera first? A 70 year old who trains for mini-triathlons or a 25 year old who does not exercise and smokes?

 

I know who I pick in that contest!

 

:):p

[Denny01]

Not going to get into the descrimination yes/no discussion, but just an observation on the comment on suing. In what court? St Kitts? international Maritime? certainly not the US or your home country.

 

Good luck. It maybe discrimination in our eyes, but probably not under whatever jurisdiction that is germane.

 

But then after I pontificate on something I'm not an expert on, some lawyer will come on and point put my errors.

 

Den

[johnb0529]

It's really pretty simple:

 

1) develop iron-clade contracts that the cruiseline/tour operator is not responsible for your heath or ability to participate as long as they disclose the physical requirements in detail. If you cannot keep up, you are responsible for supplemental/emergency transportation/care! Let people take responsibility for themselves (something 51% of Americans seem to have forgotten) and they will have no reason to complain about being discriminated against by age, weight, fitness, etc.

 

2) treat timeliness as non-optional. the bus is leaving at xx:xxPM if you are not on, you are left behind! airlines do it, public transit does it, cruise ships do it, why not tours? people have a sense of entitlement to hold up a cruise tour as they fart around and behave as self-centered a**es (health not withstanding). If they know the bus is leaving, they will find a way to get back in time.

 

3) sell premium tour services that include mobility assistance. if you want to take a certain tour, someone will be there to help you as needed, you pay for the incremental services you require.

 

4) better educate cruisers about private tours where none of this is an issue as they will personalize to your needs for the appropriate fees.

[4774Papa]

I really think the arbitrary age limits actually make the cruise line and tour company more apt to get sued because that doesn't address the real issue of limited mobility. The tour does say strenuous but if they really want to drive home the restrictions- they should state that instead of the age limits for adults because not all adults are created equal.

I agree. This is probably one of the main reasons for the age restriction.

I must say that at 64, that I find people half my age can't keep up with my DW and myself on some tours. We did the walk up 800 plus stairs to a fort in Greece and passed several young persons that had to stop to catch their breath.

DW and I ride our bikes over 100 miles a week and would not be happy with this kind of restriction.

[babyher]

As someone previously said, it's likely due to the tour operator's insurance and liability. And, what part of "strenuous" is ambiguous and needs defining? A strenuous hike sounds pretty clear to me it's not a stroll in the park given where it is.

 

 

 

 

Exactly.

 

My mom is 84 . on a straight flat area or sidewalk, she can walk all day (had no trouble walking around Disney World and Las Vegas the past couple of years.) But too many stairs , or cobblestone streets ,, or walking on slippery ledges under waterfalls is definately out!!!!!!! And she will be the first one to admit it.

[cruzeluver]

It is age discrimination. There are no age restrictions on Princess, Holland America or Cunard. Why Celebrity does this escapes me.

 

As others have pointed out, it is the tour operators who set the restrictions, not Celebrity. And a couple of others also explained that the country in which the tour is taking place may very well have no laws on the books regarding what we in America call "age discrimination" and therefore it would be lawful for them to set those restrictions.

[Nebr.cruiser]

Exactly.

 

My mom is 84 . on a straight flat area or sidewalk, she can walk all day (had no trouble walking around Disney World and Las Vegas the past couple of years.) But too many stairs , or cobblestone streets ,, or walking on slippery ledges under waterfalls is definately out!!!!!!! And she will be the first one to admit it.

 

There's a lot of difference between 84 and 65! I'm 67 and I would be unhappy to be denied an excursion like this simply on age, as I am in good shape and exercise a lot.

 

I do understand this rule somewhat, as I have been on tours with people who obviously did not belong there, due to mobility or fitness problems, and held everyone else back.

 

But, I wouldn't spend time worrying about it, I'd just find another excursion with a private operator that meets my needs. We never take ship excursions anyway.

[ORV]

As others have pointed out, it is the tour operators who set the restrictions, not Celebrity. And a couple of others also explained that the country in which the tour is taking place may very well have no laws on the books regarding what we in America call "age discrimination" and therefore it would be lawful for them to set those restrictions.

 

Please don't confuse this nice thread with logical facts.

[cruzeluver]

Please don't confuse this nice thread with logical facts.

 

You are so correct. My humble apologies. ;)

[JFontaine]

I'm curious to know how anyone here knows who set these rules - Celebrity and/or the tour operator. Under many jurisdictions Celebrity would have liability as an agent; advertising, accepting money and issuing refunds, facilitating, sending its staff on the excursion etc. Just because in some small print Celebrity disclaims liability does not automatically make it so. (And watch the Costa litigations play out for more on the ability to sue a cruise line.)

 

That said - a well-drafted release of liability should be able to take care of the liability issue easily if executed by those competent to release (generally, not minors, and the age varies by jurisdiction). Obviously a 4 year old can't legally consent to anything; and in some jurisdictions a parental consent might not waive liability.

 

In case someone hasn't said it yet, allowing a 4 year old on any kind of excursion but not a fit adult of any age is just silly.

[Asma]

I'm curious to know how anyone here knows who set these rules - Celebrity and/or the tour operator. Under many jurisdictions Celebrity would have liability as an agent; advertising, accepting money and issuing refunds, facilitating, sending its staff on the excursion etc. Just because in some small print Celebrity disclaims liability does not automatically make it so. (And watch the Costa litigations play out for more on the ability to sue a cruise line.)

 

 

 

That said - a well-drafted release of liability should be able to take care of the liability issue easily if executed by those competent to release (generally, not minors, and the age varies by jurisdiction). Obviously a 4 year old can't legally consent to anything; and in some jurisdictions a parental consent might not waive liability.

 

 

 

In case someone hasn't said it yet, allowing a 4 year old on any kind of excursion but not a fit adult of any age is just silly.

 

 

Ok, this post confuses me. You are comparing the Costa incident to a shore excursion. Well I see a big difference. First off, the Costa incident was Costa's fault. They didn't sail with a "privately contracted captain". They messed that up all on their own.

 

Shore excursions are booked through a private vendor. In these countries those vendors have to abide by their own laws, and if it allows them to pick an age, then so be it. They certainly have a reason for it. Such is life. Its not something people should take personal.

 

And I say this as a 25 year old who has been left in the dust by a man in his 70's rock climbing.

 

Sent from my BlackBerry

[rebeccalouiseagain]

Celebrity selects the excursions. Since the majority of cruisers are over 65 these days- perhaps they shouldn't select tours that wouldn't be available to their cruising base. Just my two cents (I'm 47 btw but I won't always be- God willing.)

[Merriem]

Stories like these are memorable because they are the exceptions.

 

The odds are heavy that persons over the designated age would have trouble on these excursions, in the opinion of the operator of the tour. And the tour operator's opinion is really all that matters in these cases, isn't it?

 

No they are not! My husband at almost 71 can out hike, bike, walk, etc, etc most 25 year olds. It should be up to the person. I personally wouldn't want to do it.

 

Our last trip to the Galapagos, he found the most difficult outings to be not difficult at all, I went for the easy ones.

 

Don't group people by age! If you think 70 is old, you should rethink that. It sure isn't.

[Merriem]

Ok, this post confuses me. You are comparing the Costa incident to a shore excursion. Well I see a big difference. First off, the Costa incident was Costa's fault. They didn't sail with a "privately contracted captain". They messed that up all on their own.

 

Shore excursions are booked through a private vendor. In these countries those vendors have to abide by their own laws, and if it allows them to pick an age, then so be it. They certainly have a reason for it. Such is life. Its not something people should take personal.

 

And I say this as a 25 year old who has been left in the dust by a man in his 70's rock climbing.

 

Sent from my BlackBerry

 

I doubt if most of these countries even have laws, and just see if you fall down and get hurt if anyone is going to cover your expenses. I doubt it.

[JFontaine]

This is what Celebrity says about their excursions:

 

"•Peace of Mind – our tours are led by reputable, insured operators. And we keep in touch, so if your tour is delayed, the ship waits for your return.

•Knowledgeable Service – our experienced team helps schedule your time efficiently so you get to all the must-see sights and if a tour or itinerary changes, Celebrity assists with the details.

•Convenience – We transport you from the ship to each tour. Plus, there are no hidden costs—unlike those that other tour operators may charge."

 

They call them "our" tours "led" by those who they find "reputable". And "we" transport you. Sounds like Celebrity has more than a casual relationship with these tours.

 

The connection with the Costa tragedy was in response to the poster who said you can't successfully sue a cruise line because of the fine print in their cruise contract. My point is: there are some very smart lawyers about to challenge this (again).

[phoenix_dream]

It is age discrimination. There is also often weight discrimination (although sometimes I know there are truly issues in that regard due to maximum vehicle weight or ability to fit in equipment). In other countries there may be no laws preventing it. it's not fair. Life isn't fair. Nothing we can do about this one IMHO.

[Christine Frances]

There are a lot of things with age restrictions, Driver's License, voting, drinking, etc. Are they discriminatory? There are probably a lot of responsible 15 yr olds who would love to get their DL. I think these restrictions are in place because the "majority" should wait to reach the applicable age. Maybe the majority of 65yr olds shouldn't take this tour but we all realize that there are some that are perfectly capable. I'm 68 and if I saw that restriction I sure wouldn't book it:eek:

[teltrainer]

OK...let everyone and anyone go on tours and then sit back watch for the following:

 

1. lawsuits from those injured complaining "they didn't tell me I couldn't go with my (condition, age, weight) so it's the company's fault".

 

2. lawsuits settled for millions so

A. cruise line raises fares to cover all these handouts (so now we ALL pay for those people)

B. tour company goes out of business or goes back to saying no to some who want to go.

 

Based on lawsuits and complaints mentioned on the Boards here, I don't think I'm too far off ....even without a crystal ball for predictions. :-)