Age Discrimination

[ghstudio]

That was the point I was trying to make. Not being from USA, I have no idea about Medicare coverage but if you have private, or cruise line, travel insurance, an excursion that is not considered (by the tour operator) to be suitable for your age group would be regards as hazardous, so would not be covered.

Sheila

 

I keep stressing that you have to read whatever policy you are buying or thinking of buying. You can't guess whether a policy will cover something or not...policies are very specific. It does not matter what your tour guide or you think is hazardous...the only thing that matters is whether the insurance company defines it as hazardous. Most policies that I have read are very clear about what they exclude as hazardous.

[dana77kc]

Please don't confuse this nice thread with logical facts.

 

I've never been asked for proof of age on an excursion.

[phoenix_dream]

Found this interesting article on cruise critic and this is just a cut and paste about shore excursions

 

Q: What if something bad happens during my bungee-jumping shore excursion?

A: Cruise lines have been amping up the thrill factor with more adventurous shore excursions, but Harvey cautions that insurance often specifically exempts hazardous sports and activities. Bungee-jumping or zip-line-loving cruisers do have options, though: Travelex Travel Select lets you purchase an upgrade to waive the exclusion; Travel Guard Adventure Travel Protection is an example of a new breed of policy specifically designed for the modern adventurer and doesn't come with hazardous sport exclusions. And, policies often won't cover competitive sports, competitions and tournaments. So, for example, you aren't protected if you're injured while taking part in a 10-K race organized ashore.

Yes, one cannot definitely depend on the cruiseline or tour operator to pay, espcially for adventure type excursions. I was thinking more in the line of accidents where the driver is at fault, faulty equipment, etc.. Even in those cases, we are dealing with laws nowhere near as strict as the US or other first world countries so the word 'perhaps' in my original post must be taken very literally.

[smtcan]

I keep stressing that you have to read whatever policy you are buying or thinking of buying. You can't guess whether a policy will cover something or not...policies are very specific. It does not matter what your tour guide or you think is hazardous...the only thing that matters is whether the insurance company defines it as hazardous. Most policies that I have read are very clear about what they exclude as hazardous.

 

We have annual coverage and I am well aware of the terms. I also know that when there is any doubt, an insurance company doesn't go out of its way to help you. We had excellent service from our company when DH was taken ill on a cruise - we couldn't have asked for better care and support and we never saw a bill because they paid the hospital directly. Even so, I would be very wary of giving them any possible reason to deny coverage.

Sheila

[medcoder]

Gosh, this is an interesting thread. Since I've become somewhat older and don't do somethings quite the way I once did I realized that like some others have posted that I cannot do those things any longer. How nice I once did them but leave them to the younger people now. I enjoy so much cruising and probably will only stop once I can't climb a gangway and then will ask for a wheelchair. But, with all that said i think we all have to understand that age restrictions are in place for our own safety and we have to use our brains. I know I went on a cruise with a friend a few years back and ended up at some Mayan ruins that almost were our ruination. It was fine but wow was it ever humid and the heat truly got to both of us. I am glad I went but won't do it again. Use our heads, buy decent travel insurance and enjoy your trip!

[fleckle]

In Alaska, we could not book a white water rafting excursion for our then 11 year old through the cruiseline.... once on the cruise tour portion of the trip, there was no issue with his age...

Thank you for your reply. I know that many tour operators have minimum age restrictions, and in some cases height or weight restrictions, so I should have been more explicit in phrasing my original question.

 

What I had really intended to ask was whether or not they check people's ages for tours that have maximum age restrictions (other than in situations where a person's suitability for the activity may be questionable just from observation).

 

For example, if they state that the minimum age is 16, it would be obvious that a 6 year old would not qualify.

 

But if they state that the maximum age is 60, it would be hard to enforce based on appearance alone.

 

 

[rebeccalouiseagain]

If you book it through the cruise line- they have your age available. It will come up on their screen. So given the age restrictions- I doubt that you could get on said tour. This is the same with the youth program- they know your child's age. You can fool them because your child looks younger or older. The cruise line knows this information.

[QShip]

For the first time I find that I am the subject of age discrimination, and it strikes me as ridiculous. Setting an arbitrary mark such as age for engaging in an activity is a lazy, illogical method of avoiding possible problems. It is much more appropriate to establish qualifications that are pertinent to the task and measure potential participants against the qualifications. Yes, I know it is more time consuming and requires actually making decisions, but it also results in increasing your pool of customers and greater potential profits.

 

Besides, I am still trying to figure out the rationale behind a 65 year limit on a Segway tour in San Juan, PR? What is it about age that specifically affects the ability to ride a Segway? Have not been able to find another provider, either.

[Northeast Jake]

Very interesting thread! If the tour groups do not use age or weight as a benchmark, how would you suggest they determine a person fit to participate in the tour? Perhaps a fitness and physical test at the pier? This is just another problem in our society today, people of all ages are overweight, perhaps obese and not in good physical shape. Perhaps those that choose to take care of themselves are being targeted, but I cannot blame the tour company for trying to protect themselves. Before I get torched, I am a 53 yo male that runs 40+ miles a week and participates in several marathon and half-marathons each year, it's just a problem with our society today (entitlement).

[Jimsgirl]

I apologize for some of the people in our age group.We are 84 and 86 and dearly love cruising but you really need to know and accept your limitations.I cannot even imagine wanting to go on some of the trips mentioned above.The cruise ships provide so many things that make cruising doable why push your luck.Give me my kindle, the uncrowded pool,my balcony and I am happy---almost forgot, add an extra dry Bombay sapphire martini and I am in heaven.

 

I agree , I am 87, I cruise solo, but I do know my limitations, I walk around the ship, resting when needed, and I never go ashore now.

I am constantly suprised when I read of wheeelchair/scooter readers who expect the staff to carry them down to the tender, and complain if the transport does not have a place to carry their wheelchair/scooter on a tour.

 

These passengers obviously do not read the description or picture of man walking up steps/hill that accompany the tour booking forms

 

We are our own worst enemies.

 

Lynn

[Alg63]

Most insurance companies charge more .. Be it health, life, car .. Some may refuse policy altogether ... Why is this any different? At some point you have to evaluate your Loss/risk factor and draw a line somewhere .. Even though you may not like the line they draw.

[hcat]

Not sure about a segway ride as I never tried one but perhaps balance, visual perception issues, agility etc..may come into play??????

 

We took scooters all over Bermuda 30 yrs ago but woul never even think about them nowadays!!!

[dkjretired]

Most insurance companies charge more .. Be it health, life, car .. Some may refuse policy altogether ... Why is this any different? At some point you have to evaluate your Loss/risk factor and draw a line somewhere .. Even though you may not like the line they draw.

 

You are so right, in many ways we have to suffer for the actions or inactions of others. These limits are put there because of the lawyers and the insurance companies. This company or some other company may have been sued by some 66 year old guy who claimed they never should have allowed him to ride the segway at his age. You just never know. I do know a common injury with the segways is going down face first...

[bplazo]

I understand the minimum ages because some parents will put their child in dangerous situations. I remember that someone wanted to take a baby cave tubing and asking if they would be able to do this excursion. So I can understand why they set boundries.

[QShip]

My basic point is that arbitrary limits are for those who are too lazy or afraid to create meaningful, objective criteria to engage in their activity. It has nothing to do with any entitlement. It cannot be that hard to put someone on a Segway and see if they have the ability to properly control the device. To merely hide behind a characteristic (age) that actually has nothing to do with ones capabilities is cowardice.

[celle]

That is wrong. My DH is 70, weight 174, and hikes on a regular basis up to 9000 feet, and that is at least twice a week. I agree, it is age descimination.

 

Your DH may well be fit and active, but there is no way that the tour company can check each person's fitness level individually. That's why there has to be some arbitrary cut-off age. I'd say it was a practical measure, rather than age-discrimination.

 

A tired 4-year-old can be picked up and carried, while a tired, unfit 66-year-old cannot, without a great deal of difficulty.

[celle]

My basic point is that arbitrary limits are for those who are too lazy or afraid to create meaningful, objective criteria to engage in their activity. It has nothing to do with any entitlement. It cannot be that hard to put someone on a Segway and see if they have the ability to properly control the device. To merely hide behind a characteristic (age) that actually has nothing to do with ones capabilities is cowardice.

 

Yes, but your idea would be time-consuming and it would also prevent other people from being able to book the tour.

 

I don't think that local tour operators are into creating "meaningful, objective criteria". They just want to start a tour as fast as possible and cover themselves against possible, predictable problems.

[robsaw]

Yes, but your idea would be time-consuming and it would also prevent other people from being able to book the tour.

 

I don't think that local tour operators are into creating "meaningful, objective criteria". They just want to start a tour as fast as possible and cover themselves against possible, predictable problems.

 

As you've implied, meaningful, objective criteria can also be time-consuming, costly, complex and ultimately impractical. I could see an objective "test" taking far more time than the excursion itself (nevermind the time in port), costing more than the excursion and still failing to fully sort out the qualified from unqualified participants.

 

Yes, it is discrimination, which is not the same as illegal discrimination. Even on US soil, businesses are quite legally allowed to discriminate on many grounds, just not on grounds protected by various civil/human-rights legislation and even those aren't across-the-board in all circumstances and situations. And constitutional protections apply to government actions - not private businesses. Once you get to a foreign jurisdiction - it isn't business as usual.

 

I disagree that it is primarily laziness, rather it is a pragmatic expediency under the circumstances, which is naturally unfair to some.

[Jborosara]

It's tour operator dependent....has nothing to do with X. My 77 year old mom did a ship sponsored Segway tour in st. Martin. She did great and had a good time. She was not allowed to book the Segway in PR...different operators -different rules.

 

We also had the experience where rccl wouldn't let us book white water rafting in Alaska for our 12 year old but the tour company on our cruisetour said fine...

 

Who knowa

[phdiva]

What I had really intended to ask was whether or not they check people's ages for tours that have maximum age restrictions (other than in situations where a person's suitability for the activity may be questionable just from observation).

 

For example, if they state that the minimum age is 16, it would be obvious that a 6 year old would not qualify.

 

But if they state that the maximum age is 60, it would be hard to enforce based on appearance alone.

 

 

 

We experienced this situation when cruising with my BF's parents. We could not book a particular shore excursion for them in advance because they were above the age limit. When we got on board, we asked the shore ex desk and were told the tour company sets the policy. As I recall, the shore excursion person offered to see if they'd make an exception for BF's mom.

[jackdiamond]

It is really quite simple: these requirements or rules are simply CYA's,as are most of the admonitions on the medicines, and vitamins, etc., which you ingest.

[navyrotorhead]

My basic point is that arbitrary limits are for those who are too lazy or afraid to create meaningful, objective criteria to engage in their activity. It has nothing to do with any entitlement. It cannot be that hard to put someone on a Segway and see if they have the ability to properly control the device. To merely hide behind a characteristic (age) that actually has nothing to do with ones capabilities is cowardice.

 

...it would indeed, "not be that hard to put someone on a Segway and see if they have the ability to contol the device."

 

Just incredibly naive, risky, and potentially costly beyond comprehension or measure. :eek:

 

Welcome to the cold cruel world of our modern day, insanely litigious society/nation. :(

 

Which, unfortunately, has become a society/nation OF lawyers, BY lawyers and FOR lawyers. :rolleyes:

 

If you want to understand the gravity of the situation, just go to any store and buy a common household item such as a lamp, television, blowdryer or toaster. :confused:

 

Then sit down with a legal dictionary by your side as you read through the PAGES of safety precautions and legal disclaimers.

 

Have you EVER actually READ your cruise documents? Cowardice has absolutely NOTHING to do it.

 

It has EVERYTHING to do with The National Trial Lawyers Association.

[4774Papa]

...it would indeed, "not be that hard to put someone on a Segway and see if they have the ability to contol the device."

 

Just incredibly naive, risky, and potentially costly beyond comprehension or measure. :eek:

 

Welcome to the cold cruel world of our modern day, insanely litigious society/nation. :(

 

Which, unfortunately, has become a society/nation OF lawyers, BY lawyers and FOR lawyers. :rolleyes:

 

If you want to understand the gravity of the situation, just go to any store and buy a common household item such as a lamp, television, blowdryer or toaster. :confused:

 

Then sit down with a legal dictionary by your side as you read through the PAGES of safety precautions and legal disclaimers.

 

Have you EVER actually READ your cruise documents? Cowardice has absolutely NOTHING to do it.

 

It has EVERYTHING to do with The National Trial Lawyers Association.

I am a retired attorney that once defended the US government from discrimination cases. The entire three years that I performed that service, I handled over 50 discrimination cases. NONE of the cases were valid.

 

This thread pointed out that our country is an insanely litigious society/nation. I won't disagree with that, but you must include frivolous discrimination cases. Too many people are looking for easy cash.

 

This tread is not exactly a case designed to cash in on, but it is an example of how quick some people are to use the word discrimination.

 

I am 65 and in great health, but I know that my equilibrium is not what it once was. I ride my bike about 5000 miles a year for fun and exercise. Still, I understand the liability issues with who you give a segway to operate. I have no problem with the cruise line cutting off at a certain age.

[CruisinCadie]

In one of the earlier posts in this thread, it was noted that some cruise lines include information about how much walking, how many steps, etc., in their tour descriptions. I notice Celebrity is doing that on many of the tour descriptions on our upcoming cruise. Some even list the number of steps to get into a bus. As a senior citizen with mobility issues, I find this extremely helpful. While none of the ones I'm interested in have age cut-offs, I can understand tour companies covering themselves and would't resent it in the least.

 

Kathy