Dress Code Offenders

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather, I have to disagree with you on this one. First of all, who are "they" as in "their opinion". Are you saying that "they" are the inhabitants of all foreign countries you've been to and they are all envious and dislike us? That has not been my experience overseas. Are there people who dislike Americans and are envious of us? Sure there are, but it has been my experience that the majority of people from different countries are curious, friendly and open to American visitors.

 

Of course it helps if we, as visitors to a foreign country, don't act like we own the place. Trying to speak a little bit of their language helps also (and I mean learn a couple of words like "please" and "thank you"). We spent four days in Paris last fall and beforehand, I heard all the stories about the Parisian's atititudes towards Americans. With very few exceptions, we didn't encounter any of that. A great deal of the older generation of Europeans are still very grateful of what the Americans did for them in WWII and will never forget that. I have also seen examples of the "ugly American" who expects to be spoken to in English at all times while abroad and makes comments about "the hell hole" they are in, followed by "I can't wait to get out of this godforsaken place". It's all a matter of respecting them in their environment and treating them like we would like to be treated. It's been my experience that if you do that, you will get a lot in return.

 

Take care and be safe!

 

John

 

John, by "they" I refer to an all-encompassing group, as in "many" or "most". I said that Europeans (mostly that's who I was talking about) dislike Americans in general ... not as individuals. I have learned this partly from behavior I have witnessed in other countries, but mostly from what I have read over many years about this subject. And, yes, I am saying that for the most part we are disliked and envied by other countries ... not we as individuals, but "we" as Americans.

I've never been treated anything but well overseas because I try my best to speak the language of the country I'm in and adapt to their customs.

You didn't encounter the problem because you obviously do not fit the description of "ugly American", but you know that many do. It is those people that have given us this reputation overseas.

Most people I know have had the same experience you and I have had. My comments refer to a general opinion ... we might even be safe calling it a bias against Americans that has been formed over many years of us travelling and behaving as if people in other countries should be adapting to us rather than the other way around.

On a trip to Montreal several years ago, I'm sad to say I was embarrassed to be an American. There were a few Canadians speaking French and 3 ill-dressed, bad mannered Americans got on the elevator carrying bottles of beer. They proceeded to shout, howl, laugh and make comments about the Canadians before exiting the elevator. The Canadians all looked at each other with knowing glances and I cowered in the corner of the elevator.

 

BTW, you began by saying you disagreed with me and then went on to support everything I said. Thanks!:)

[Cracker Ken]

dakrewser - I agree with what you say. If there is a venue or community where the wearing of a hat indoors for dinner or other events is acceptable , not a problem. I'd probably join them, if I had a Stetson (and in those areas, it would probably be best to get one:) ).

 

It's all about rules and what is socially acceptable at certain places and times.

 

Though I expect people to follow the rules set forth, their refusal to do so certainly doesn't effect the taste of my food one bit.

 

Everyone be nice now.:)

 

Ken

[Copper10-8]

Heather, you're welcome! :) There is no doubt we, as Americans (and I'm from Holland and became a U.S. citizen in 1984), have a certain reputation "earned" by the actions of some. I still don't think that the majority of Europeans are envious of us and dislike us. But you know what? Like you stated in your previous post, we live in a country where we can beg to differ ;) .

 

You don't sound like an "ugly American" either! Enjoy your future trips to Europe or wherever your final destination might be (sound like a flight attendant now:rolleyes: )

 

Take care and be safe!

 

John

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thanks, John:) . You're a real gentleman. When I was a baby, my nurse and Godmother was from Holland. A magnificent woman.

 

And I hope you're right. I'd much rather you be right than me;)

[RevNeal]

I believe the dress codes for the three types of evenings should be published clearly, with no ambiguous language, in both the cruise docs and printed in the daily bulletin.

 

The cruise Docs (the "Know Before You Go" booklet) make it clear what the dress code is ... and what it states can be found on HAL's website and has been posted here by others. ONLY those who are looking to find loopholes so they can break the rules will find somewhere in the Code where they believe it states that its ok for them to ignore the code -- hence, the harping of the term "suggestion" in the code, while totally ignoring the phrase "not allowed" relative to shorts, jeans, t-shirts, and swim suits.

 

As for the Daily Program ... it also states what the code is. Here is a scan of what a HAL Daily Program (from the Oosterdam in Feb of this year) says regarding formal night:

 

 

Now, I ask all those who argue this point: what can be more clear than the above statement?

[RevNeal]

The HAL Daily Program (again, from the Oosterdam in Feb of this year) is equally clear regarding the dress code for informal night:

 

 

I don't know about anybody else, but that seems rather clear to me.

[Copper10-8]

I don't know about anybody else, but that seems rather clear to me.

 

Chrystal, Rev!

 

John

[HeatherInFlorida]

Yup! Pretty darned clear to moi!!!:D

[wwinfl91]

I think they should throw dress code violaters into the Brig for the first offence and then make them walk the plank for the second one.

 

No more seriously it is tough for cruise lines to enforce the rules since we are "paying guests" and they don't want to make anyone too unhappy or have anyone make a big scene.

 

Have a great next cruise in spite of what other people wear.

[ryansmemom]

So there it is. Clearly stated in "grey and white?"

 

Here's a little story. Related and true. I was president of my condo association for 4 years. These were the first four years of my condo's existance. Ok, it was a major transition for most homeowners who were used to living in homes that they had complete control over. However the lure of no exterior mainentance is a strong one. We have lovely quads, nice lawns, streets, etc. The association provides snow removal to the front door and clears the driveway. We do all lawn work and landscaping as well as all exterior mainenance. Nice deal.

 

However, their is a price. In addition to the monthly fee, people must give up control of these issues to a board of directors and follow the rules. The rules are stated in black and white before the condo is purchased. Additions and amendments are distributed through the mail and posted for all to see. I have been told that people cannot be expected to abide by these rules. I have been told that it is too much to expect that people would actually read these documents. I have even been told that it is too much to expect that people can actually read. Several people have told me that as adults they should not be expected to follow any rules at all. If they did read their documents they would know that the association can actually fine them for breaking the rules. It does get a bit more complicated than where one will eat. The fines can get quite costly and although it is rare, people have actually been taken to court.

 

Mind you, no one forced any of these people to buy into this condo association. Mind you these people are all adults. Also, these are not inexpensive homes, they are a major investment.

 

This year I am vice-president. My family thinks I am a masochist.

 

Just a little story that may shed some light on people who don't want to follow the rules and the lengths they will go to in order to do this. They do not seem to mind that it makes them seem utterly ridiculous. Until I held the position of president of my condo association I had no idea that that many people were unable to read the simplest things. ;)

 

Linda

[Vic The Parrot]

 

Have a great next cruise in spite of what other people wear.

 

 

Or what people 'don't wear'

 

 

I looked at Candy's photo album, and there's a guy with no shirt eating inside the Lido. Does that mean HAL is starting 'topless meals' in the alternative dining areas?

 

:rolleyes:

[jhannah]

Linda ... Great analogy! I could also compare them to folks at work who think the company's policies are stupid and shouldn't apply to them for some reason or another. But that would be sorely OT.

[Copper10-8]

I looked at Candy's photo album, and there's a guy with no shirt eating inside the Lido. Does that mean HAL is starting 'topless meals' in the alternative dining areas?

 

:rolleyes:

 

I think that story dealt with man boobs:eek:

[Vic The Parrot]

Lmao!!

[Opinions]

I don't know about anybody else, but that seems rather clear to me.

 

Why are dresses or blouses and slacks "suggested " for ladies and jackets are "required" for men?

[jhannah]

Good question. Why are pants not "required" of the men?

[gizmo]

Linda ... Great analogy! I could also compare them to folks at work who think the company's policies are stupid and shouldn't apply to them for some reason or another. But that would be sorely OT.

 

LOL. I am now going on topic with Baseball Caps. We have a guy where I work that is the Imelda Marcus of baseball caps. In over two years, I have only seen him once without his cap. Some of us often wonder if this guy sleeps with one.

We had a fancy dinner earlier this year. Suites and ties were required for men, ladies all wore fancy dresses. We were taking bets if he would show up with his baseball cap. We all lost. He didn't show up at all. :D

[RuthC]

Good question. Why are pants not "required" of the men?

O.K. Now that's funny. Good one, Jim.

[HeatherInFlorida]

 

 

This year I am vice-president. My family thinks I am a masochist.

 

 

Linda

 

Oh, Linda, I know so well what you go through. Your family is right ... you are a masochist. I've been there and I've done that. Past tense;)

And your analogy is right on. Besides, a lot of the people you're talking about are getting on ships. And ... after all ... it's their vacation. You certainly can't expect them to read there!!!!:D

[Oceanwench]

The HAL Daily Program (again, from the Oosterdam in Feb of this year) is equally clear regarding the dress code for informal night:

 

 

I don't know about anybody else, but that seems rather clear to me.

 

 

I have my Daily Program from the Zuiderdam, 5/14 cruise.

It says -- Tonight's dress: informal

Sports jackets for men

 

So apparently from ship to ship there is a difference in what is printed in the program. There is no mention on what women are to wear -- at least in the Daily Program.

 

Those who did not read their docs may be puzzled by "informal" night, at least as far as what women should wear.

[HAL92]

QUOTE= I am now going on topic with Baseball Caps. We have a guy where I work that is the Imelda Marcus of baseball caps. In over two years, I have only seen him once without his cap. Some of us often wonder if this guy sleeps with one.

We had a fancy dinner earlier this year. Suites and ties were required for men, ladies all wore fancy dresses. We were taking bets if he would show up with his baseball cap. We all lost. He didn't show up at all.

First of all, why would someone like wearing baseball caps so much? It is okay to wear them at appropriate times such as baseball games, but formal dinners and cruises are not appropriate times for a baseball cap. Very funny story.

[Oceanwench]

Ask Ron Howard ... he wears one all the time.

[gizmo]

First of all, why would someone like wearing baseball caps so much? It is okay to wear them at appropriate times such as baseball games, but formal dinners and cruises are not appropriate times for a baseball cap. Very funny story.

 

This guy is a character and could fall into the "good old boy" category. He owns quite a few guns, and drives a pick up. Jeff Foxworthy may know this guy.:D

 

For the longest time I though maybe he did not have much hair on the top of his head. Not so ! I was shocked to see hair that one and only time he was minus the baseball cap. :eek: Believe me, this guy owns as many baseball caps as Imelda had shoes.

 

As far as why a person would wear a baseball cap all the time I have no idea.

It is really a mystery to me.

 

(P.S. I do not mean to offend anyone that drives a pick up , owns guns, or wears a baseball cap or may know Jeff Foxworthy)

[Copper10-8]

(P.S. I do not mean to offend anyone that drives a pick up , owns guns, or wears a baseball cap or may know Jeff Foxworthy)

 

Thank you kindly for that last clarification! ;)

[Oceanwench]

This guy is a character and could fall into the "good old boy" category. He owns quite a few guns, and drives a pick up. Jeff Foxworthy may know this guy.:D

 

For the longest time I though maybe he did not have much hair on the top of his head. Not so ! I was shocked to see hair that one and only time he was minus the baseball cap. :eek: Believe me, this guy owns as many baseball caps as Imelda had shoes.

 

As far as why a person would wear a baseball cap all the time I have no idea.

It is really a mystery to me.

 

(P.S. I do not mean to offend anyone that drives a pick up , owns guns, or wears a baseball cap or may know Jeff Foxworthy)

 

I don't drive a pickup, own a gun, wear ball caps or know JF ...

But I have really enjoyed this story! :)