"Never again in the Haven"

[Frick_&_Frack]

This will not happen to us They dont call me mighty mouth for nothin you know

 

LOL - you're too much Joe!

 

Can't wait for September!!

[graphicguy]

These parents are probably the same types of people who feel free to walk into a store or post office, and talk on their cell phones in the clerk's face. I am a retired postal window clerk, and found that to be extremely rude.

 

Oh Boy...pet peeve of mine. Thanks for your patience, Barb.

 

It's unfortunate, but this isn't an NCL issue, nor is it exclusive to NCL. Rude people seem to be more prevalent to a cruise ship for some reason.

 

Personally, I have no problem bringing a child's issues to the parents attention. If that doesn't work, I verbally correct the child myself. At that point, I really don't care what the parent thinks of me.

[Gregor4500]

I think Adult only hours would only make the rest of the time worse. Its like an invitation to do what ever they want outside of adult hours.

 

I think some parents are not educated as to what other guest expect the haven to be and think its for kids to do what they want, which I guess is true.

A sign on all entry doors stating a behavior policy while inside the haven would be a good start. While it would be hard to enforce or discipline it would at least make people think about their and their kids behavior.\

Something along the lines of.

 

We want all our guests to enjoy the Beautiful Haven so we kindly request

 

That noise be kept to a reasonable level.

That all kids be supervised at all times.

No running.

No jumping in the pool.

No splashing in the pool.

 

We appreciate your cooperation

NCL

 

Good point, I retract my idea of adult only time.

[MsTabbyKats]

actually I was thinking in terms of drug kingpins and those types.

 

maybe even from the gang populations that hail from places not thought to produce gangs in the past, but causing lots of problems nowadays......you know what I am saying, I just don't want to say it.

 

Lots of money there and I bet they go to a local neighborhood TA and pay for the Haven in cash...it's not like they can put it on a credit card and earn points.

 

based on the horror stories on this thread, I do not believe we are talking about spoiled rich people, I actually believe we are talking about criminal types flush with cash. Who else acts this way and says what they do to other pax?

 

I must be slow today. You're right. They can't put that cash in the bank either.

 

And these are the people extremely unlikely to co-operate with NCL security. I doubt NCL security (a minimum wage earner from "somewhere else") is going to want to tell "The Drug Lord" that his child is being disruptive.

 

I don't think signing a rule prior to boarding or having rules posted would have any affect. It would be more like a joke.

[MsTabbyKats]

I think Adult only hours would only make the rest of the time worse. Its like an invitation to do what ever they want outside of adult hours.

 

I think some parents are not educated as to what other guest expect the haven to be and think its for kids to do what they want, which I guess is true.

A sign on all entry doors stating a behavior policy while inside the haven would be a good start. While it would be hard to enforce or discipline it would at least make people think about their and their kids behavior.\

Something along the lines of.

 

We want all our guests to enjoy the Beautiful Haven so we kindly request

 

That noise be kept to a reasonable level.

That all kids be supervised at all times.

No running.

No jumping in the pool.

No splashing in the pool.

 

We appreciate your cooperation

NCL

 

But...if my new assumption is correct....these kids are being brought up with "the rules don't apply to me". Neither the kids nor parents will care.

[shaun07]

Part of the problem is there is no point of reference. If there is a sign with rules at least staff and other people have something to reference . Now there is nothing

[MsTabbyKats]

Part of the problem is there is no point of reference. If there is a sign with rules at least staff and other people have something to reference . Now there is nothing

 

This is the problem as I see it (keep in mind, I would never spend $20,000 for a week of my life...we worked too hard to earn it...and I'm "thrifty")

 

Children will be children. They make noise. They splash. It's all part of being a child. As someone pointed out...there are more "child oriented" activities on an NCL cruise. Most parents watch their kids and want their kids to have fun. But most are actively involved by either monitoring or taking the kids where they can "be kids" without disturbing others.

 

These are not that kind of parents. These parents "are on vacation" and are happy that their brats can stay in a confined area without them (the parents) doing anything. It's kind of like sticking your kid in front of the TV.

 

These parents don't think the rules of society include them. They therefore teach (by seeing) their children to do likewise. They also have money to burn. So...someone complains. And security says "your kid is blah blah". The dad with the gold chains is probably proud of the kids behavior...and slips the security some cash. Problem solved.

 

Not saying it's right....just saying what I think will happen with posted rules when the parents don't think their children are doing anything wrong.

 

The parents who care don't need posted rules.

[psycomac]

I'm planning on booking a Haven suite on the Breakaway, took one look at the photos and video of the Haven area and figured there's no way in hell I'm spending any kind of time there with my 4 year old. The 'pool' is scarcely larger than a glorified bathtub, she doesn't need to be in a hot tub and there's no way she's going to sit still long enough to actually enjoy the loungers.

 

That being said, you're going to find parents in any and every venue who are more concerned with their own personal space than that of the people around them or even their own kids. I work retail and cannot count the number of times on a daily basis that parents will walk in the door with their children only to completely lose track of them within 10 feet of the door because they simply don't care. These people pay more attention to and place more value on their wallets and purses and cell phones than they do to their own children. There's no way in hell they'd leave their purse just sitting on the floor while they went and checked something out yet they have no problem whatsoever losing all track of their children in the same situation (how many times have we all been in a store and heard some parent yelling for their child or the child yelling for their parent?).

 

As for what sort of behavior should be classified as 'disruptive', it's not a very hard line to draw. If you're on the phone and your child is standing right next to you doing whatever it is that they are doing, would it disturb your phone call? If the answer is yes, it is disruptive and needs to be halted. Period. Anything less is lazy, irresponsible and quite frankly rude parenting. We live in an apartment on the 3rd floor and are constantly telling our daughter not to run. Not only because when she runs she inevitably ends up running into something or tripping an falling but also because there are people who live below us and they should not have to live with the constant fear of their ceiling caving in on them under what sounds like the weight of a herd of elephants. To say nothing of the annoyance the noise brings.

 

If this is how I handle my child when we're home and not in public, you can imagine the sort of discipline she's subjected to when we're out and about. She knows there are rules and she knows what happens if/when she doesn't follow them.

 

I for one will not hesitate to confront a parent when I think they're doing a crappy job parenting and I don't see that changing just because I'm on a cruise ship and we've all 'paid to be there'. As several others have said, they're not only annoying you, they're doing their kids a disservice by teaching them that they can act however they want with no regard to how it impacts others with little to no fear of reprisal. And I don't care *how* big the parent is or how intimidating they may feel they think they are. In the case of someone who's going to try to get in my face physically, then I can just add an assault charge to laundry list of things I'll contact the authorities about. Maybe time away from a lousy parent would end up benefiting the child in the long run.

[mommyto2girls]

actually I was thinking in terms of drug kingpins and those types.

 

maybe even from the gang populations that hail from places not thought to produce gangs in the past, but causing lots of problems nowadays......you know what I am saying, I just don't want to say it.

 

Lots of money there and I bet they go to a local neighborhood TA and pay for the Haven in cash...it's not like they can put it on a credit card and earn points.

 

based on the horror stories on this thread, I do not believe we are talking about spoiled rich people, I actually believe we are talking about criminal types flush with cash. Who else acts this way and says what they do to other pax?

 

I believe that you are 100% off base with this conclusion. I have been in the Haven 6 times in 2 years some good some bad. Do not try to make this into a bad movie script!!

[psycomac]

I believe that you are 100% off base with this conclusion. I have been in the Haven 6 times in 2 years some good some bad. Do not try to make this into a bad movie script!!

 

I'm glad somebody said it because I couldn't quite find the right words to express what I've been thinking with the 'impression' I was getting from the poster's comments and thinly veiled 'disdain' for what she 'doesn't want to say' regarding the people she doesn't quite want to 'identify' (read: profile).

[maggie cruises]

I must be slow today. You're right. They can't put that cash in the bank either.

 

And these are the people extremely unlikely to co-operate with NCL security. I doubt NCL security (a minimum wage earner from "somewhere else") is going to want to tell "The Drug Lord" that his child is being disruptive.

 

I don't think signing a rule prior to boarding or having rules posted would have any affect. It would be more like a joke.

 

these types will snap back at you in the nastiest of ways and you can't suggest anything to them because they know it all.

 

Came across one of these "new age gangsters" when bringing my kid to college....he was the father of another student and the man was a total brute..bully..etc....he knew everything and everyone else was stupid.

 

They do what they want and that is it. They grew up in a police state.

 

They blend in...so they fly under the radar and know how to avoid the law and have scripted answers for everything and will lie and cheat. if you called ncl security, these types would be able to convince them that you are the nut and their kids are angels.

 

Until you actually have the misfortune to speak to one of them, you might think they are typical middle class folks with families and jobs. They are dangerous and best kept away from.

 

This is not the same type of gangster that is always portrayed in the movies.....different region altogether.

[maggie cruises]

I'm glad somebody said it because I couldn't quite find the right words to express what I've been thinking with the 'impression' I was getting from the poster's comments and thinly veiled 'disdain' for what she 'doesn't want to say' regarding the people she doesn't quite want to 'identify' (read: profile).

 

......

[maggie cruises]

I'm glad somebody said it because I couldn't quite find the right words to express what I've been thinking with the 'impression' I was getting from the poster's comments and thinly veiled 'disdain' for what she 'doesn't want to say' regarding the people she doesn't quite want to 'identify' (read: profile).

 

Thank you and yes I have a serious disdain for cash rich people who think that they have a right to treat others in the bullying manner which has been described in this thread, and being from NY and being somewhat well read, I know all too well of this up and coming cash rich bully that is on the scene in NYC these days.

 

Not Wall Street either...

 

any person who can afford to spend $20,000 and treat other that way deserves my disdain.

 

Most people I know that can afford $20,000 to cruise are well manner, polite, decent folks and would not act out like the ones described here.

 

You can't honestly believe these people portrayed in this thread actually deserve any respect, do you?

 

The deserve to be put off the ship.

 

How dare some kid throw water on an oxgen using man?

How dare the parent say..get out of the pool because I won't let my kid in with a stranger?

 

Stop the political correctness...there are people out there that deserve disdain and classless pax belong in that group.

 

.

 

The unfortunate reality is that some cash rich people earn that cash in illegal ways and there is no denying that.

[maggie cruises]

I believe that you are 100% off base with this conclusion. I have been in the Haven 6 times in 2 years some good some bad. Do not try to make this into a bad movie script!!

 

the scene the OP and others describe is the bad movie script and it is obvious that there are times in the Haven when really nasty pax are booking...and that is unacceptable and sounds dangerous as well and NCL should be putting some security guidelines into place.

 

Tell me I am wrong about this....not

[NLH Arizona]

OMG, why am I picturing the father as either a mobster with a gun strapped to his leg or a overly tatooed drug smuggler with hundred dollar bills streaming from his pockets as he walks. LOL!

 

Bad parenting comes from every level of life from the well heeled to those without a pot to tinkle in. From very education people to those that can't spell their own name.

 

No one know how much this family has, what they do for a living, etc. If they paid cash for the cruise, if they charged the cruise, etc. We don't know if they are in debt up to their chin to go on this vacation or have more money than all of us. We don't know that they didn't came into an inheritance. Actaully, we don't know anything about this family, other than they were bad parents on this cruise in The Haven and their children are learning by their example.

 

BTW, you don't need to be a mobster or drug lord or a fortunate 500 executive, etc., to spend $20,000 for a weeks vacation. And bullying has no economic level either.

 

Classless, yes, but untill someone knows what they really do to earn their living, it should just be left at classless.

[MsTabbyKats]

Well Maggie....

I'm thinking these people live a few stops from the B/Q terminal.

[psycomac]

Actually I think 'profile' is exactly what she's talking about. To take someone and set them aside for judgment and/or additional scrutiny based solely upon how they look, what they wear, how they talk, etc is the definition of profiling.

[maggie cruises]

I'm glad somebody said it because I couldn't quite find the right words to express what I've been thinking with the 'impression' I was getting from the poster's comments and thinly veiled 'disdain' for what she 'doesn't want to say' regarding the people she doesn't quite want to 'identify' (read: profile).

 

ok....how about this...I have disdain for people that earn money somehow and have so much of it that they throw it on an overpriced cruise and ruin that cruise for those others who paid the same amount for the cruise but are descent and respectful...got it?

 

The pax described by the op were thugs and bullies....regardless of their career

[Padwin12]

Well, I was thinking about getting a pass for the Haven, just my husband and I so we did not want a suite when a nice balcony would do. Now I'm seriously reconsidering. Will probably just go to the main pool with people who just want to have fun! I can't believe anyone would tell someone else to get out of the pool, I would go up the ladder until I got satisfaction with that one (not good with confrontation myself). I would also take anybody who would go with me, NCL might listen when you have numerous complaints. I just wish I could get "big mouth" to sit next to me on my cruise!

[psycomac]

Thank you and yes I have a serious disdain for cash rich people who think that they have a right to treat others in the bullying manner which has been described in this thread, and being from NY and being somewhat well read, I know all too well of this up and coming cash rich bully that is on the scene in NYC these days.

 

Not Wall Street either...

 

any person who can afford to spend $20,000 and treat other that way deserves my disdain.

 

Most people I know that can afford $20,000 to cruise are well manner, polite, decent folks and would not act out like the ones described here.

 

You can't honestly believe these people portrayed in this thread actually deserve any respect, do you?

 

The deserve to be put off the ship.

 

How dare some kid throw water on an oxgen using man?

How dare the parent say..get out of the pool because I won't let my kid in with a stranger?

 

Stop the political correctness...there are people out there that deserve disdain and classless pax belong in that group.

 

.

 

The unfortunate reality is that some cash rich people earn that cash in illegal ways and there is no denying that.

 

 

Unfortunately I have seen just as many 'non-cash' rich people treat others far worse than what you describe. Rich people, regardless of how they acquired their wealth, sometimes think that just because they have money means they can s**t all over anybody else simply because they have money to throw around and shut others up. I'm reminded of a thread I read the other day regarding what a butler can and should be asked to do for you when booking a suite and how someone in another suite observed the 'guests' of the DOS behaving in an absolutely appalling manner with regard to how they were treating their butler.

 

You're going to run into people with no class regardless of their financial standing and/or how they came to be in that financial situation. To distinguish 'new money' from 'old money' with regard to how they treat others is just as foolish as to say that only people with no money really appreciate what it means to suddenly have some.

 

A**holes comes in all shapes, sizes, financial backgrounds. It has nothing to do with how they made their money or how much of it they have.

[maggie cruises]

Actually I think 'profile' is exactly what she's talking about. To take someone and set them aside for judgment and/or additional scrutiny based solely upon how they look, what they wear, how they talk, etc is the definition of profiling.

 

so? I am profiling them as thugs and bullies based on how they acted.

 

and what is wrong with profiling? It is an extremely useful tool...don't keep your head in the sand...

[Frick_&_Frack]

Well, I was thinking about getting a pass for the Haven, just my husband and I so we did not want a suite when a nice balcony would do. Now I'm seriously reconsidering. Will probably just go to the main pool with people who just want to have fun! I can't believe anyone would tell someone else to get out of the pool, I would go up the ladder until I got satisfaction with that one (not good with confrontation myself). I would also take anybody who would go with me, NCL might listen when you have numerous complaints. I just wish I could get "big mouth" to sit next to me on my cruise!

 

Hi Betty -

 

I think you may be referring to Posh or Spice (or whatever it's called on Epic and Breakaway - I keep getting the names confused).

 

This particular discussion is about the Haven on the Gem (Jewel class ships). Jewel class do not have that extra space that Epic/Breakaway do.

 

No passes are sold to The Haven - you have to have one of the suites with Haven access.

 

(I know, all these names get confusing - I keep reading and I still confuse them all!)

 

Happy Cruising!

 

Heidi

[psycomac]

OMG, why am I picturing the father as either a mobster with a gun strapped to his leg or a overly tatooed drug smuggler with hundred dollar bills streaming from his pockets as he walks. LOL!

 

Bad parenting comes from every level of life from the well heeled to those without a pot to tinkle in. From very education people to those that can't spell their own name.

 

No one know how much this family has, what they do for a living, etc. If they paid cash for the cruise, if they charged the cruise, etc. We don't know if they are in debt up to their chin to go on this vacation or have more money than all of us. We don't know that they didn't came into an inheritance. Actaully, we don't know anything about this family, other than they were bad parents on this cruise in The Haven and their children are learning by their example.

 

BTW, you don't need to be a mobster or drug lord or a fortunate 500 executive, etc., to spend $20,000 for a weeks vacation. And bullying has no economic level either.

 

Classless, yes, but untill someone knows what they really do to earn their living, it should just be left at classless.

 

Thank you! Exactly what I was getting at. You have no idea if that person in line paying for food with their food stamps while talking on an iPhone didn't actually get that iPhone as a gift and you don't know if the guy with a mouth and chest full of gold is selling crack or stocks out of his living room.

 

I have seen far more people with 'old money' treat their fellow human beings like complete s**t than I have those without.

 

At the risk of getting flamed again (in another thread not this one) for bringing it up at all, the only reason I'll be able to book a Haven is because of an inheritance. I have NO CLUE what we're supposed to actually do with this level of service and I'm only hoping not to embarrass myself or my butler with what I might request as part of what I'm 'paying for'. But that has to do with the type of person that I am, and how I was raised, not with how much money I have or how I got it.

[maggie cruises]

Unfortunately I have seen just as many 'non-cash' rich people treat others far worse than what you describe. Rich people, regardless of how they acquired their wealth, sometimes think that just because they have money means they can s**t all over anybody else simply because they have money to throw around and shut others up. I'm reminded of a thread I read the other day regarding what a butler can and should be asked to do for you when booking a suite and how someone in another suite observed the 'guests' of the DOS behaving in an absolutely appalling manner with regard to how they were treating their butler.

 

You're going to run into people with no class regardless of their financial standing and/or how they came to be in that financial situation. To distinguish 'new money' from 'old money' with regard to how they treat others is just as foolish as to say that only people with no money really appreciate what it means to suddenly have some.

 

A**holes comes in all shapes, sizes, financial backgrounds. It has nothing to do with how they made their money or how much of it they have.

 

well of course! but don't kid yourself there is a very serious problem in the boros of NYC at the moment with gang activity...and not talking about Crips and Bloods my friend....do some research and it will shock you....it is very upsetting

 

as an extremely law abiding person who is more than respectful to other pax, I see this Haven issue as somewhat serious as it can easily attract the wrong kind of person...one who feels all too entitled or one who needs to unload some possibly illegally earned cash...

 

NCL needs to police this issue...no doubt about it.

[psycomac]

so? I am profiling them as thugs and bullies based on how they acted.

 

and what is wrong with profiling? It is an extremely useful tool...don't keep your head in the sand...

 

wait until someone profiles you and then ask that same question again...