what passes for formal wear these days?

[CruiseTobey]

I would like to see Formal Night go away, anyway. We don't like wearing suits and this will save us from dry cleaning and carrying a garment bag aboard.

 

Don't worry, formal night will go away. Due to a more casual society, we are starting to see the end of it already. RCI is starting to realize what most of their target consumers want out of a vacation: happy times shared with family and friends. Does one need a tux or gown to do that?

 

I would not be surprised to see RCI go the opposite direction: change the MDR to a casual, table-service venue and provide fee-based "specialty" restaurants (with an accompanying strict dress requirement) for the tux-and-gown crowd. Everyone wins! Those who pine for the past can enjoy a "luxury" experience, while those who wish to dress less formally can still enjoy a full-service meal in a relaxed atmosphere. Walt Disney World does things this way and no one is complaining. Why not RCI?

[Paul65]

I have no idea what you are talking about other than the fact you appear to prefer insults to making lucid points to support your case.

 

Miopyk

 

Again, what was an insult? You posted the following:

 

And you're right, the cruise line has a choice to enforce a code or not and they have clearly made it, so on that basis I don't give a darn, why should I?

 

At most, I have slightly paraphrased what you said about yourself. Why would you consider that an insult? If it's not enforced, then you don't give a darn and don't see why you should. Correct?

[Paul65]

So what do folks mean when they say it "Ruined" their vacation. Do you al go around the rest of the cruise sulking and complaning that folks were not formally dressed?

 

People don't say it ruined their vacation. Those opposed to formal nights accuse others of saying that what other people wear ruined their vacation. It's a straw-man argument.

 

The closest I've seen to someone actually saying that is saying that it "ruined" the formal atmosphere of the dining room, but not that it ruined their entire vacation or even their entire meal.

[Eriksgarden]

Don't worry, formal night will go away. Due to a more casual society, we are starting to see the end of it already. RCI is starting to realize what most of their target consumers want out of a vacation: happy times shared with family and friends. Does one need a tux or gown to do that?

 

I would not be surprised to see RCI go the opposite direction: change the MDR to a casual, table-service venue and provide fee-based "specialty" restaurants (with an accompanying strict dress requirement) for the tux-and-gown crowd. Everyone wins! Those who pine for the past can enjoy a "luxury" experience, while those who wish to dress less formally can still enjoy a full-service meal in a relaxed atmosphere. Walt Disney World does things this way and no one is complaining. Why not RCI?

 

Until it goes away, though, we will drag the suits along for Formal Night.

[miopyk]

Don't worry, formal night will go away. Due to a more casual society, we are starting to see the end of it already. RCI is starting to realize what most of their target consumers want out of a vacation: happy times shared with family and friends. Does one need a tux or gown to do that?

 

I would not be surprised to see RCI go the opposite direction: change the MDR to a casual, table-service venue and provide fee-based "specialty" restaurants (with an accompanying strict dress requirement) for the tux-and-gown crowd. Everyone wins! Those who pine for the past can enjoy a "luxury" experience, while those who wish to dress less formally can still enjoy a full-service meal in a relaxed atmosphere. Walt Disney World does things this way and no one is complaining. Why not RCI?

 

This is exactly the point. If the dress code is clear it will be respected by all especially if the staff enforce it. I'd actually be happier if this was the case and would dress appropriately should it happen as we tend to use the speciality restaurants a lot.

 

The current situation in the MDR allows people to make a choice and this seems to get some people in a moody as seen in previous posts on this thread.

 

Miopyk

[miopyk]

Again, what was an insult? You posted the following:

 

 

 

At most, I have slightly paraphrased what you said about yourself. Why would you consider that an insult? If it's not enforced, then you don't give a darn and don't see why you should. Correct?

 

To be honest I don't think you're the kind of person I want to converse with let alone dine with.

 

Miopyk

[sbw80]

Don't worry, formal night will go away.

 

Hopefully i'll get a couple more in first. Might still dress up anyways, be the cruise formal version of a crazy cat lady, that would be fun. :)

[Eriksgarden]

Hopefully i'll get a couple more in first. Might still dress up anyways, be the cruise formal version of a crazy cat lady, that would be fun. :)

 

We'll join you; maybe even buy tophats for the occasion.

[ryano]

I would converse with Paul65 or dine at his table. We dont see eye to eye on a few subjects regarding cruising but that doesnt mean he is a bad person or someone I would want to avoid.

Edited June 4, 2013 by ryano

[Paul65]

To be honest I don't think you're the kind of person I want to converse with let alone dine with.

 

Miopyk

 

Fair enough. I just wanted to be sure I wasn't misrepresenting what you said about yourself.

 

And, if you ever happen to be stuck dining with me, it's highly unlikely that I'll be talking about dress codes, so no worries. In fact, the only time I can think of that it was discussed at dinner was with some table-mates who were considering skipping formal night, because they didn't think they had anything packed that was formal enough. We assured them that, if they wanted to come to the dining room anyway, it would be fine to just wear the nicest clothes that they had packed.

[miopyk]

I would converse with Paul65 or dine at his table. We dont see eye to eye on a few subjects regarding cruising but that doesnt mean he is a bad person or someone I would want to avoid.

 

Good for you. Everyone needs at least one friend otherwise they'll be sat fretting all on their own.

 

Miopyk

[texasgirl73]

I really enjoy dressing up and love the atmosphere of a formal setting. I can see both sides. On the one hand I love having the chance to wear formalwear (my husband and daughters love it too) but I also hate having to force my son to wear clothing he hates and listen to him whine. It's also annoying to have to spend money on clothing for both of my sons that will be worn just once (because they will outgrow it before the next opportunity to dress up arises.) And don't get me started on shoes!

 

In the end I would prefer that formal nights stay and do lament that casual attire is allowed and even encouraged but I wouldn't say it ruins my vacation. It's sort of like finding out that your favorite menu item is no longer being served or that a show that you were looking forward to see has been discontinued. It's not a deal breaker, I just would enjoy a more formal setting than I would a casual one.

[sbw80]

We'll join you; maybe even buy tophats for the occasion.

 

Ooooooohhh, i want a Top Hat too (Maybe without the rabbit inside, not sure i could get that through customs)!

[cjdixon4]

When something works, why change it?

 

The fact remains that there are fomal nights. Another fact is that there are people that want it and those that do not want formal nights in a sit-down venue with a waitstaff. Instead of this bickering about which is better, what solutions do you have to try and fix it?

 

One suggestion I have is to ask the passengers pre-boarding if they will be dining formal or not on those nights and try to arrange seating for the different levels of the MDR accordingly. This way passengers that want the formal dining can do so with other like-minded people, and those that do not want to be so formal can also enjoy a sit-down meal (without anyone being charged extra).

 

What suggestions do other CC members have to accommodate both the formal and non-formal passengers on formal night?

 

Hubby and I rather enjoy putting on a nice outfit for formal night; but then, that's US. I don't know how one would measure how dressed-up "dressy" is for the "different levels of the MDR" as you stated. Might be best to leave it alone; RCI already has the more upscale specialty restaurants, then the MDR, then Windjammer, then Park Cafe', and down from there. Separating people that way might be perceived by some as kind of 'elitist'. My thoughts... :cool:

[ryano]

........

Edited June 4, 2013 by ryano

[NJcruisenewbie]

So how do people feel about Speedos on the pool deck :D:eek:?

[bigque]

So how do people feel about Speedos on the pool deck :D:eek:?

 

[cjdixon4]

Goldstein's response was so wishy-washy. It is obvious that RCI does not know where to go with "Formal Night". Just like saying not to save seats in the theater, or chairs on deck. Why even "suggest"? Just drop the policies, if there is no intent to enforce? Carnival replaced Formal Night with some silly term like "Night of Elegance" or whatever. Sparkly flip flops? RCI should follow them.

 

I would like to see Formal Night go away, anyway. We don't like wearing suits and this will save us from dry cleaning and carrying a garment bag aboard.

 

Eriksgarden-

You are SO right about Adam Goldstein's response. MDR attire is probably NOT one of the things that keeps him up at night...LOL. It would appear to me that passengers have already pretty much changed the policies, by wearing what they personally deem appropriate. While hubby and I don't mind dressing up for one night (and ONLY one night), others like to be a bit more relaxed; and that's fine by me. It won't change my enjoyment of my meal. Yes, Carnival uses the term "Cruise Elegant" night, but that night on their ship is even more of a joke than on RCI! You ought to see what THEY wear to their MDR...LOL And NCL has that "Freestyle Dining" thing. I experienced it once; no fixed dining times or pre-assigned seating, wear anything. I thought that it was organized chaos, personally.

 

I think for those who are stuck on being surrounded by "hoity-toity" type of attire at dinner time, and I use that term loosely....RCI has some other options: Celebrity and Azamara. I'm told that they don't play around with their dining room standards. LOL :cool:

[jstraw20]

So how do people feel about Speedos on the pool deck :D:eek:?

 

LOL, now THERE'S a clear need for a dress code if ever there was one, hopefully based on BMI. I always fret a little over my beer belly but those worries vanish the second I hit the pool deck. Some of the speedo wearers make me feel positively svelte!

[sbw80]

So how do people feel about Speedos on the pool deck :D:eek:?

 

Ha ha, i find them a lot less offensive than white socks and sandals... :p

[cjdixon4]

So how do people feel about Speedos on the pool deck :D:eek:?

 

Oh Lord....:eek: The question should be, " So how do people feel about Speedos in the MDR?"

[Cigar King]

Ha ha, i find them a lot less offensive than white socks and sandals... :p

 

As a proud wearer of said white socks and sandals, all I can say, is they are so comfortable. Especially double souled white socks. Like walking on pillows. Offending people...that's just a bonus. ;-)

[Travel R]

I'm sorry it doesn't. The dress code is flexible not imposed as published on RCI's own website - quote:

"We don’t have strict rules on cruise clothing, so what you wear really is up to you. Even our optional ‘formal nights’ have flexible dress codes."

Oh, and when was the last time anyone believed what a president has said.

Would you care to have another go?

Miopyk

 

I had a bunch of time on my hands this morning . . . .

 

The quote you have provided comes from a BLOGGER on the RCI website. What this person (Adele) states has absolutely no bearing on RCI rules & guidelines. The RCI guidelines are clear. It states that there is a dress code. They divide the dress code into three different levels - Formal, Smart Causal, and Casual. Let's look at the official dress code as posted on the RCI website:

 

Q: What are the dress codes onboard?

A: There are three distinct types of evenings onboard: casual, smart casual and formal. Suggested guidelines for these nights are:

 

Casual: Sport shirts and slacks for men, sundresses or pants for women

Smart Casual: Jackets and ties for men, dresses or pantsuits for women

Formal: Suits and ties or tuxedos for men, cocktail dresses for women

 

Let's dissect the statement and see if there is any ambiguity.

 

The first sentence states that "There are three distinct types of evenings onboard: casual, smart casual and formal."

 

-> Is a dress code optional? The second word in the statement is "are." This is the key to whether the dress code is optional or if a dress code is being intentionally implemented. By using this word, they are spelling it out for you -- there is a dress code and it is not optional.

 

-> Are there any modifiers or conditions to the first sentence? RCI does not provide any conditions in this statement where the dress code guidelines are suspended. However, there is a modifyer. They do state that this is for "evenings" which is not being debated here.

 

-> Is formal night not formal? RCI even goes further and provides a list of what the three different types of dress are named. The first two being casual and smart casual. The third is specifically named "formal." I am not sure why there is any confusion over this. If they did not intend the evening attire on formal nights to be formal, then why did they call it "formal" attire? If they called it "dress up" night and left everyone to their own ways, then I can see where people may be confused. But not only do they call that evening's attire "formal," they even provide examples of what formal wear should be -- and compare them to the other types of attire (which I will discuss further below).

 

The second sentence states "Suggested guidelines for these nights are:"

 

-> Is the dress code a suggestion? Although it has been established above that the dress code is not optional and that there is a formal night, this second sentence is where the non-formalists try to find a loop-hole in the dress code. They point to the word “suggested” as meaning that the dress code and formal attire on the formal evening is only a suggestion. If that was RCI’s intention, they would have used the word “suggestion” in the first sentence stating that there is a suggested dress code.

However, RCI is using the word “suggested” in the second sentence to mean “to propose as desirable or fitting.” The reason it fits this definition (there is more than one definition of suggested) is because the sentence is subsequently followed by a list of each of three dress types and specific examples of each type. RCI is providing examples of what types of clothing are desirable and fitting for those specific evenings.

 

-> Are guidelines enforceable rules? This is another wiggle-word that anti-formalists also use in their argument against following the dress code. Once again, we will turn to Webster’s dictionary. A guideline is “an indication or outline of policy or conduct.” Some may try to turn this definition around in saying that guidelines are very malleable and can be extremely broad. However, a more careful understanding is that a guideline is broad because it encompasses many facets of the entire body of rules – but still must stay within the boundaries of those rules. More specifically, in this case, RCI is showing some flexibility with their guidelines. They are stating that there are various dress types for different evenings, and that there is flexibility in each of these three distinct types. For instance, on formal night, it does not limit male passengers to only a tuxedo, but also allows men to wear a suit and tie. Each of the other types also has some flexibility as well. The rules even allow the flexibility of what style of suit to wear on formal night.

 

-> Is the dress code enforced? This is the major issue with RCI. Although RCI is stating that they have these rules, what good are they if they are not being enforced? This is something that needs to be addressed at the corporate level. According to the answer from the Q&A by Goldstein (see a few posts above), they are aware of it and are working on it, and admits that there are many instances where they do not enforce the rules, or cannot because of the difficulty of the situation or the difficulty of the person. However, one thing he did not say was that a dress code did not exist or that RCI (and its staff) was unwilling to at least try to enforce it. [Yes, what a President of a company says is very relevant.] He stated “Across the fleet we follow the formal night dress guidelines that are printed in the Cruise Compass.” There is nothing ambiguous about the words “we follow the formal night dress guidelines.” It is in the enforcement of such guidelines that they are experiencing the problem – although RCI is trying to deal with it. I do not know how anyone can interpret those words as “we have rules, don’t care about them, so wear whatever you want.”

 

The last part of the RCI dress code provides:

 

Casual: Sport shirts and slacks for men, sundresses or pants for women

Smart Casual: Jackets and ties for men, dresses or pantsuits for women

Formal: Suits and ties or tuxedos for men, cocktail dresses for women

 

-> Can a passenger wear a polo and jeans on formal night? Since it has been established that there is a dress code that RCI is trying to enforce, and that one of three types of dress allowed is formal attire, one would have to logically conclude that one should wear the type of clothing listed for that evening. RCI provides examples of what is appropriate (i.e., “desirable and fitting”) to wear on formal night. That attire would include suits and ties for men, and cocktail dresses for women. Nowhere in the description of formal attire does it state anything about polo shirts/sport shirts or jeans/dungarees/fancy jeans in their examples. Even if someone even had the remotest notion that there is a grey area, that argument is invalid because RCI lists three types of dress, and the closest to a polo shirt and jeans would be the “sport shirts and slacks” listed under casual. I guess that someone could argue that there may be a grey area between casual and smart casual attire, so if someone wore a polo shirt and fancy jeans on a smart casual night, there is a weak argument to do so. One would also have to argue that “slacks” and “jeans” are also comparable. However, to get from the casual level of dress to the formal level of dress is not feasible. Just as a side note, the fact that RCI lists three different styles of dress and also provides distinct examples of all three is another fact that backs up the reality that formal nights and formal wear are not optional, but an actual rule.

 

Summary

 

What it comes down to is that there is a formal night that is not optional. There is a list of examples provided by RCI as to what formal wear is. When you signed up for the cruise and agreed to all the terms and conditions of RCI, you agreed to follow the dress code. Either follow the dress code in the MDR, or don't eat there.

 

However, once again, if the rules for formal nights are to be changes, what suggestions do you have. I had suggested dividing the levels of the MDR into formal and casual. Some have commented that this can be seen as being elitist. I do not agree. This has nothing to do with who has money or who does not. It is giving people a choice as to wear formal clothing or not. Same service, same food, and no one is denying anyone from selecting the formal or non-formal dining.

 

Another idea I have come up with is having different dress codes based on time of year and/or location. For instance, a Caribbean cruise in the middle of July should not have a formal night -- or maybe only one formal night.

 

A third idea I have is RCI having some itineraries that are all-casual or maybe even all-formal.

 

What other suggestions do you have?

[sbw80]

As a proud wearer of said white socks and sandals, all I can say, is they are so comfortable. Especially double souled white socks. Like walking on pillows. Offending people...that's just a bonus. ;-)

 

Lol. Go for it Mr king, who am i to judge :D:D

[sbw80]

What it comes down to is that there is a formal night that is not optional. There is a list of examples provided by RCI as to what formal wear is. When you signed up for the cruise and agreed to all the terms and conditions of RCI, you agreed to follow the dress code. Either follow the dress code in the MDR, or don't eat there.

[/color]

 

That's rubbish, on the cruise compass of Oasis it states "suggested" dress code. No one is going to charge me money to dictate what I can or can not wear beyond reasonable limits, which formal wear would fall under. It is and should be optional. I'd rather that the staff on the cruise ship that i am on have better things to do than police what people are wearing.