Carnivalization of Celebrity??

[clmom]

Alexander might not have said what some people wanted to hear but that doesn't mean that he's not a nice person. Because he is. I hope you have the chance to talk to him and get to know him. He's very accessible and takes a real interest in all the guests. Try to meet him before you form an opinion. ;)

I agree, Alexander is a really nice guy. We liked his style and confidence. He has a staff position which puts him in the hot seat. I felt sorry for him because he must be confronted with critics and complainers hundreds of times every cruise. He understands that comes with the job responsibilities. He's just the messenger, so don't shoot him! I heard him say in the last day announcements that he was leaving the ship for vacation the same day we did (March 1st). I would happily have him as a CD on a future cruise.

[NLH Arizona]

We encountered loud music in Blu on our most recent Millie cruise my wife and I did not notice but our friends pointed it out to us on a number of dinning occasions and we agreed it did not need to be as loud as it was. I thought they might be doing it as an attempt at white sound.

 

Funny that you didn't notice it, until it was pointed out.

[wallie5446]

and was surprised that 23 of the available 25 RCI cruises start at a higher rice than any/all of the 13 Celebrity cruises. Even the cheapest pricing on the thirteen year old Adventure of the Seas is higher than any Celebrity starting

 

Thom

A tad bit of math homework and marketing concept is needed here. The % of inside entry price point cabins on Celebrity is in the 8% of total cabins and most times are not eligible for any of the perks the other cabin classes are. Hence they are offered at a lower bargain basement price. The % of inside cheap-0 cabins on the monster twins is higher, hence a higher price point. Celebrity gives nothing away to those few that book these cabins, so therefore someone can get a great cost for 7 days of the most basic benefits. It has nothing to do with poor bookings as the rest of the cabins are a lot higher.

Edited March 5, 2014 by wallie5446

[baldercash]

Funny that you didn't notice it, until it was pointed out.

We were aware of the volume but for us it did not rise to the point of an irritant which it was for our friends. But as stated once they pointed it out to us we agreed it was louder then it needed to be as it was not enhancing the ambiance of the dinning room.

[Seapoint]

The fact that in a little over 24 hours this thread has had 5800 views and 130 posts, and the similar thread about the loud music has had over 3,000 views in a short time, should make the point that the concern about the loudness of the music is not restricted to a few old passengers. It is a big and real issue, which Celebrity needs to address. Not one person at the large CC gathering on the Reflection said they felt the loudness of the music was ok!

 

Part of the problem is the configuration of the ships which makes the loud music almost impossible to avoid.

 

Loud music at the main pool is a problem, as there is only one open air pool area. (The Solarium, which is quiet, is enclosed).

 

Loud music in the lobby impacts the entire core of the ship…the Library, Game Room, I-Lounge, Future Cruises, Hideaway, Martini Bar, Cellar Masters, Bistro on 5, Cafe Bacio, Guest Relations, Elevator lobbies, Shore Excursions and the Passport Bar!! There really is no place to hide!

 

The solution is so easy…just lower the volume. This is an easy enhancement that won't cost Celebrity a cent! I just don't understand why Celebrity is so obstinate about this.

 

Many, many people are complaining the music is too loud. Some of us will take this into consideration when we book our next cruises. (My next cruise is on Oceania).

 

A key point is when we and other loyal Celebrity customers booked a Celebrity cruise, we did so expecting a Celebrity experience. I feel that they changed the game on us, and inflicted an unpleasant experience we had not signed up for.

 

If the music was still modern and varied, but at a reasonable volume, I wonder if anyone would complain that the music volume is too low. It seems to me that the all the risk to Celebrity is on the side of having the volume too loud.

Edited March 5, 2014 by Seapoint

[takemewithyou]

The fact that in a little over 24 hours this thread has had 5800 views and 130 posts, and the similar thread about the loud music has had over 3,000 views in a short time, should make the point that the concern about the loudness of the music is not restricted to a few old passengers. It is a big and real issue, which Celebrity needs to address. Not one person at the large CC gathering on the Reflection said they felt the loudness of the music was ok!

 

Part of the problem is the configuration of the ships which makes the loud music almost impossible to avoid.

 

Loud music at the main pool is a problem, as there is only one open air pool area. (The Solarium, which is quiet, is enclosed).

 

Loud music in the lobby impacts the entire core of the ship…the Library, Game Room, I-Lounge, Future Cruises, Hideaway, Martini Bar, Cellar Masters, Bistro on 5, Cafe Bacio, Guest Relations, Elevator lobbies, Shore Excursions and the Passport Bar!! There really is no place to hide!

 

The solution is so easy…just lower the volume. This is an easy enhancement that won't cost Celebrity a cent!

 

Many, many people are complaining the music is too loud. Some of us will take this into consideration when we book our next cruises. (My next cruise is on Oceania).

 

A key point is when we and other loyal Celebrity customers booked a Celebrity cruise, we did so expecting a Celebrity experience. I feel that they changed the game on us, and inflicted an unpleasant experience we had not signed up for.

 

If the music was still modern and varied, but at a reasonable volume, I wonder if anyone would complain that the music volume is too low. It seems to me that the all the risk to Celebrity is on the side of having the volume too loud.

Thank you for starting this thread and making your points, which I happen to agree with. I hope Celebrity reads them and considers them and agrees to make some changes. At any rate, maybe we will have the pleasure of meeting you onboard Oceania where we can actually talk with music appropriately playing in the background. :cool:

[cle-guy]

I think X realizes that what we have mostly here is a "Vocal Minority" complaining about volume.

 

Most people don't even realize the volume levels.

 

Frankly, as many people I've seen here post how it hurts, how it ruins their hearing etc. clearly had some sort of hearing issue prior to boarding the ship. If these people seriously can not hear their table mate or the person in standing next to them at martini bar, then there is a pre-existing condition, because I can hear just fine, as can all my friends and companions when we travel on X.

 

Those that say the younger ones have hearing loss already since we listen to loud music, well WRONG again, I get my hearing checked at annual physical, because I do go to loud concerts, to be sure all is in order, and it's fine according to the Hearing Doctors at the Cleveland Clinic. I've had testing don several yard in a row to keep a 'baseline' for comparison as I age, and its' all steady so far.

 

And the poster that suggests they play music all enjoy like the Beetles, well that was my Parent's music, not mine....!

 

Now if I could just get my close vision to maintain.... LOL

[NLH Arizona]

The fact that in a little over 24 hours this thread has had 5800 views and 130 posts, and the similar thread about the loud music has had over 3,000 views in a short time, should make the point that the concern about the loudness of the music is not restricted to a few old passengers. It is a big and real issue, which Celebrity needs to address. Not one person at the large CC gathering on the Reflection said they felt the loudness of the music was ok!

 

Part of the problem is the configuration of the ships which makes the loud music almost impossible to avoid.

 

Loud music at the main pool is a problem, as there is only one open air pool area. (The Solarium, which is quiet, is enclosed).

 

Loud music in the lobby impacts the entire core of the ship…the Library, Game Room, I-Lounge, Future Cruises, Hideaway, Martini Bar, Cellar Masters, Bistro on 5, Cafe Bacio, Guest Relations, Elevator lobbies, Shore Excursions and the Passport Bar!! There really is no place to hide!

 

The solution is so easy…just lower the volume. This is an easy enhancement that won't cost Celebrity a cent! I just don't understand why Celebrity is so obstinate about this.

 

Many, many people are complaining the music is too loud. Some of us will take this into consideration when we book our next cruises. (My next cruise is on Oceania).

 

A key point is when we and other loyal Celebrity customers booked a Celebrity cruise, we did so expecting a Celebrity experience. I feel that they changed the game on us, and inflicted an unpleasant experience we had not signed up for.

 

If the music was still modern and varied, but at a reasonable volume, I wonder if anyone would complain that the music volume is too low. It seems to me that the all the risk to Celebrity is on the side of having the volume too loud.

Out of all the posts and views, how many have a problem with the loud music and how many don't. You also have to remember that there are many, many more passengers on the Reflection than those of us that belong to cruise critic and I think their opinion should count as well.

 

Just as you will take the loudness of the music into consideration, I'm sure that many passengers who like the more fun loud music experience will as well.

[dansprite]

I think it presumptuous to assume that any age group likes a certain type of music. Perhaps most people like many genres but have particular preferences toward one over another.

 

For me, on the 2/22/14 sailing of theCelebrity Reflection, the music in the Atrium was much too loud the first two days. I believe it was a little bit better after that, but I would have preferred even less volume.

 

I do have a major complaint about that sailing. The easy listening music, the symphony music, and the string quartet were completely eliminated. For those who think that symphony music (to group all that type into one genre - "symphony") is on its way out, kindly consider that it has been around for centuries and most likely will be around for many more. Perhaps you have enjoyed the music of one of the most prolific and renown composers, conductors, musicians of our times, John Williams, who besides many other works, is known for his many movie scores, such as Jaws, Starwars, ET, the Indiana Jones series, Jurassic Park, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan, the first three Harry Potter films, War Horse, Catch Me If You Can, Lincoln, and The Book Thief, to name just a few, and also for NBC Sunday Night Football and NBC Nightly News.

 

There was no music in the Atrium upon embarkation, and there was no ballroom music offered until the third evening of the cruise, and then only from 5:15 - 6 P.M. and delivered via disc, rather than by actual live musicians. The DJ, by the way, was very nice and concerned that those who liked to dance to this music were not being accommodated. This is not limited to ballroom dancers but is enjoyed by any person who enjoys holding his/her partner close and moving to the music in whatever way suits them. Although I totally agree with those who felt the volume was too loud, the bigger problem for me is that, by eliminating strings and easy listening music, Celebrity has taken away choices; consequently, affecting a majority of Celebrity's clients.

 

I have sailed many times and with 8 different cruise lines and this was the first time that there was not a choice for everyone.

 

I sincerely hope that Celebrity will reconsider the planning and reinstate the symphony music, the strings, and the "easy listening" music, especially in the Atrium, which is a gathering place for many of us.

[waterbug123]

I would agree with you that Celebrity is probably trying to appeal to a wider audience. But if even with support from terrible weather in the Northeastern US (a major market, especially for winter cruises) you are having to sell the newest ships (with significantly larger staterooms, a "luxury" reputation and a reputation for upscale food) at bargain basement prices, management is doing something wrong. $409 for a week on Celebrity's "flagship" Reflection in the middle of hurricane season would be a steal; for the first week of March that is a ridiculous price.

 

Again, I have no specific data, but maybe Celebrity discounts the insides because more of their pax want/are willing to pay for balconies and above.

 

A tad bit of math homework and marketing concept is needed here. The % of inside entry price point cabins on Celebrity is in the 8% of total cabins and most times are not eligible for any of the perks the other cabin classes are. Hence they are offered at a lower bargain basement price. The % of inside cheap-0 cabins on the monster twins is higher, hence a higher price point.

 

That would seem to bear out what I said above. Maybe Celebrity pax on average are a bit more discerning and particular about cabin type, so they sell insides as a loss leader to get people who might not otherwise cruise, onboard. Other lines perhaps have more folks willing to book an inside or OV, so they command a higher price.

 

Obviously I can't say for certain if that's the case or not, but neither can TravelerThom and others like him be certain that Celebrity is screwing up/driving away pax/losing money etc. simply because they see some cheap prices on low level cabins. Regardless of what anyone would like to think, I think it's safe to say that it's much more complicated than "OMG they're giving away insides, they must be sailing half empty," and I would trust that Celebrity is not just grasping at straws, but rather looking at some solid data (which none of us are privy to) as the basis for their decisions. The American public can be fickle, and only time will tell whether a particular business decision turns out to be a good one on the long run or not, but anyone who expects a company to not adapt and change is destined to be disappointed.

[waterbug123]

I'm having difficulty grasping the marketing concept that more supply of insides on O-class results in higher price. In the world I live in, more supply generally results in lower price.

 

When you're comparing apples to apples, yes. But this isn't an apples to apples comparison. Different cruise lines, different ships, all with subtle and some not-so-subtle differences, different itineraries etc. So you can't just say, "Oasis has more insides than Reflection, ergo their insides should be cheaper according to the laws of supply and demand."

[awhfy]

We just got off a marvelous Caribbean 10 day cruise on the Equinox. The music at times in the atrium was a bit loud, but that's because the sound expands in that open area. We were sitting at both the Martini & Passport Bars (with canned music), the bartenders didn't have any problem turning the music down so we could talk comfortably (we asked once). As soon as the music was turned down the bar(s) became much more well attended. Didn't notice the music being exceptionally loud at the pool, it's the pool! We really did miss the acapella group tho, had looked forward to them.

 

 

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[Dunelm]

I am wondering if Celebrity may be trying too hard to be trendy. "Trendy," of course can appeal to all age demographics up to some point. Perhaps shorter cruises will appeal to younger people and the longer cruises can be geared to those who are older.

[K.T.B.]

I love the Celebrity experience, and have done some 20 cruises with them. I see this as the Carnivalization of the brand! Given that they already own Royal Caribbean, which appeals to a younger demographic, I do not see the business sense in taking Celebrity in this direction, and upsetting their large established loyal base of customers.

 

I would be interesting in hearing from other Cruise Critic members who were at that infamous CC gathering.

 

Based on your signature, how would you know? You've never been on a Carnival ship, so you've got nothing to compare it to.

 

Now then, considering I have been on a few Carnival ships I will say this: Only ONE cruise had extremely loud music playing and that was my first cruise back 2003. It was also during spring break and the ship was full of people who definitely enjoyed that type of music at that time. Every other cruise, the music was not excessively loud. The same for Celebrity.

 

Anyway, if you're going to be derogatory towards another line, at least know what you're talking about.

[baldercash]

The acapella group was an interesting diversion we would listen for awhile and then walk away. After a week or so it grows old. I find it similar to Dixieland or Ragtime great for a one off outing but not an immediate repeat.

On the Millie in Nov they had a piano player / singer by the cafe alternating with a guitarist they could be heard at the different levels of the mezzanine. It was romantic to walk through maybe stand for a song or two or stop sit and listen have a drink and then move on.

We would walk by the Jazz ensemble and have a dance or two sit and listen or move on.

 

We enjoy RCCL for their street party atmosphere and participate in the Quest but that is a different venue and we know what to expect.

I rock climb and wave board on RCCL but don't miss it or expect it on X.

 

My wife prefers X and I RCCL but we enjoy both.

[TravelerThom]

When you're comparing apples to apples, yes. But this isn't an apples to apples comparison. Different cruise lines, different ships, all with subtle and some not-so-subtle differences, different itineraries etc. So you can't just say, "Oasis has more insides than Reflection, ergo their insides should be cheaper according to the laws of supply and demand."

Although I didn't say exactly that, it far more likely to be true than "The % of inside cheap-0 cabins on the monster twins is higher, hence a higher price point."

 

Certainly vastly different itineraries:rolleyes::

Reflection does seven night cruises to San Juan, St, Thomas and St. Maarten.

Oasis does seven night cruises to Nassau, St, Thomas and St. Maarten.

Quite frankly I have to give a substantial edge to Reflection, as I enjoy San Juan a lot more than Nassau.

 

It is never easy to compare non-identical products, but Celebrity has the newer ship, significantly larger staterooms, a "luxury" reputation and a reputation for upscale food

Yet Reflection is asking me to sail for $200+ less than Oasis. I'm glad that you think Celebrity's marketing is working.

[BecciBoo]

I like most genres, except perhaps Country is not my fave, and I prefer Smooth Jazz, BUT...if the music is so loud you cannot hear the other person you are conversing with...it's TOO LOUD! Period!

 

I hope our first cruise with X coming up does not resemble the Op's cruise.

 

Unfortunately, this is almost anywhere in public these days.

 

And the op has one thing wrong....Royal Caribbean owns Celebrity not the other way around. Both companies belong to Royal Caribbean Cruises LTD.

Edited March 5, 2014 by BecciBoo

[BecciBoo]

BTW comparing Allure with Reflection( apples for apples and all that), the difference in same category (Veranda stateroom versus Oceanview Stateroom which are comparable) the difference is around 10 sq. ft. (184 for RCCL and 194 for X). A 5x2 ft square if you will, the balconies being 54 and 53 sq ft respectively.

 

I don't see that as "significantly larger" by a long shot. I couldn't even lay down in that square! But...different strokes for different folks.

Edited March 5, 2014 by BecciBoo

[going2cruz]

I'm a seasoned Carnivore and I'm trying Celebrity hoping to get away from the loud scream MUTS.........Dang it...........this industry must have a bad consulting firm steering them .....none of the brands playing Calypso Reggae on Caribbean cruise....what's going on:confused:

[dansprite]

I'm a seasoned Carnivore and I'm trying Celebrity hoping to get away from the loud scream MUTS.........Dang it...........this industry must have a bad consulting firm steering them .....none of the brands playing Calypso Reggae on Caribbean cruise....what's going on:confused:

 

I missed that on the Reflection. There was no steel band in the pool area and I did not hear the usual Caribbean and Latin music. Love to dance to them all!

[Hlitner]

Oh My! That is my reaction as one who really enjoys Celebrity and is a senior who happens to be Elite Plus. So not sure why anyone thinks that just blasting loud music is going to attract a younger generation. When we cruise on Celebrity we bring our noise cancelling headphones and a bag of soft ear plugs (ever notice that some band members wear ear plugs). Now I guess I am a strange senior because much I love all kinds of music and even some of the more contemporary stuff is on my iPod (please spare me the rap).

 

As to younger (in my world lets call this under 35) clientele this is a ripe market for shorter cruises (10 days or less) but not a great market to tap for longer cruises. Younger cruisers, with disposable income, are working folks who have to cram as much as they can into relatively short vacations (we have a DD in this category). The Reflection is currently doing their 7 day cruises (some folks do back to back) so we are not overly shocked about Celebrity trying to market to a younger crowd. These younger cruisers will develop some loyalty to their favorite cruise line...and then they will become older and hopefully keep their loyalty. On the other hand, when I was young RCCL (now RCI) was my favorite cruise line. Now, we seldom cruise on that line because of their short itineraries, cut-backs in food and service, etc. But we do like X (and Azamara) as well as Princess and HAL.

 

Hank

[SUSIEK]

I'm a seasoned Carnivore and I'm trying Celebrity hoping to get away from the loud scream MUTS.........Dang it...........this industry must have a bad consulting firm steering them .....none of the brands playing Calypso Reggae on Caribbean cruise....what's going on:confused:

 

 

I agree! I am sure some consulting firm, who probably never cruised, is feeding them these new ideas. It pains the mgmnt that they could be wrong. After spending all that money they don't want to change back. YIKES! A little bit of calypso would be appropriate for the Caribbean ........don't ya think???

[waterbug123]

Although I didn't say exactly that, it far more likely to be true than "The % of inside cheap-0 cabins on the monster twins is higher, hence a higher price point."

 

Certainly vastly different itineraries:rolleyes::

Reflection does seven night cruises to San Juan, St, Thomas and St. Maarten.

Oasis does seven night cruises to Nassau, St, Thomas and St. Maarten.

Quite frankly I have to give a substantial edge to Reflection, as I enjoy San Juan a lot more than Nassau.

 

It is never easy to compare non-identical products, but Celebrity has the newer ship, significantly larger staterooms, a "luxury" reputation and a reputation for upscale food

Yet Reflection is asking me to sail for $200+ less than Oasis. I'm glad that you think Celebrity's marketing is working.

 

I give up. You've obviously made up your mind that Celebrity is better and therefore the fact that you've seen cheaper prices for them means they must be totally screwing up. You've decided that it couldn't possibly be that there are some people who actually prefer Oasis (or whatever) for any of a hundred various reasons and that that demand warrants a premium. You prefer San Juan to Nassau, but apparently there is no chance in your mind that a lot of others may prefer Nassau. 10 extra square feet means a lot to you, so there couldn't possibly be people for whom that's a non-factor. And on and on. No, you've decided that Celebrity is failing miserably and desperately discounting cabins to make up for it. Ok, you win. Celebrity is failing miserably and desperately discounting cabins to make up for it. So, you know.. don't book any cruises with them; they'll probably be out of business before your sail date and you'll lose your money. :rolleyes:

[cle-guy]

Yet Reflection is asking me to sail for $200+ less than Oasis. I'm glad that you think Celebrity's marketing is working.

 

Choose either ship, the bottom line to the Corporation will be the same.

 

Generally seems Oasis and Allure get a premium price due to their newness and uniqueness.

 

Maybe they do things such as inflating prices on one line to discount cabins on another line. In the hotel business we'd do this often, especially in an area where there were 3 within a chain brand, like a Fairfield, Courtyard and Residence Inn all in same location. As one hotel was filling, we'd keep price high, and lower price at next door property to fill that one up, while getting last top dollar from the busier hotel on final sale rooms.

Edited March 6, 2014 by cle-guy

[cle-guy]

I am sure some consulting firm, who probably never cruised, is feeding them these new ideas. ?

 

Do you honestly think a CEO of a corporation this large would actually allow such a misguided selection? Do you not think the Board of Directors or shareholders would oust him for making such a choice in firms?

 

Or is this just more rhetoric.....

 

I do not know wheat firm (if any) they've hired, but I do continue to point to the general upward rise of the share price in the last 5 years time. So whatever consultants they do have on board, seem to be providing sound guidance overall.