Carnivalization of Celebrity??

[southernbreezes]

Could this just be a Caribbean sailing Miami decision? We just got off the Millie (28 days) in Asia and we loved the music. Pre dinner at the Martini Bar we listened every evening to a jazz/pop singer/guitarist who also entertained at the sunset bar. The pool band was great but we were disappointed that they only played 45 min sets lol. Last summer in Europe the Eclipse and Silhouette had great music at "normal" levels. I haven't sailed the Caribbean in years so maybe that is why we haven't run into loud music.

 

 

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I really think this was just one Cruise Director not company wide and this was a caribbean cruise. WE have had good and bad entertainment on all ships. We have cruised on most of the lines (59 Cruises) and love Celebrity but I do not think it has anything to do with passenger age as it does "class". By class I mean the class of people 25 years old or 65 years old it really does not matter people do not change that much. The old farts were that way when they were 30. The drunks age 45 were drunks age 25. We are both 60 started cruising at 18 like Carnival ships fine but not the class of people or the food. Holland American has great ships, great service, great food but BORNING. They play the harp and violin at the pool! Disney ships the best of the best but way to many kids. Really glad to see younger more affluent couples cruising on Celebrity. ;)

[Ship's Wake]

There are really two possibilities here:

1. Celebrity has data that shows that younger folks spend MORE on average when they are onboard. Mabye it's specialty restaurants, or spa visits or excursions or whatever, but they have data that shows this so are trying to attract more and more younger pax to maximize that higher spend.

 

2. Celebrity wants to hook a generation of cruisers who will continue with them long after the current folks have moved on.

 

3. Or actually, and more likely, it's a combination of the two. They see a generation of younger cruisers who aren't hung up on "how it used to be when everything was included" and thus don't mind paying a lot for a la carte items, AND figure that if they hook them now, they can build a loyalty and allegiance that will last for decades to come, long after the current "senior" crop of loyal pax can no longer cruise.

 

It's a Miami decision for the following reason: louder music means more beverage sales.

 

A study on this showed than when a bar's music was 72 decibels, people ordered an average of 2.6 drinks and took 14.5 minutes to finish one. But when the volume was turned up to 88 decibels, customers ordered an average of 3.4 drinks and took 11.5 minutes to finish each one.

 

Read the research yourself:

http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/09/why-loud-music-in-bars-increases.php

 

Celebrity is putting your onboard spend ahead of your onboard enjoyment. As another poster stated, what a way to run a business!

[cle-guy]

Celebrity is putting your onboard spend ahead of your onboard enjoyment. As another poster stated, what a way to run a business!

 

Indeed! mored drinks = more money = more shareholder return! exactly how a business runs.

 

Until such time as the bean counters may notice declining overall occupancy pushing people away that isn't offset by a new incoming generation of cruisers.

 

As the music has been in discussion now for several months, it would seem that the decision is working. Looking at stock prices that continue to rise with RCII, it is also a good indicator that the policy is working favorably.

[TravelerThom]

We are Elite Plus, and while we are still sailing multiple times a year, we find ourselves sailing Celebrity less and less. Celebrity ships are very nice, food is good, we can find some very attractive pricing, but far too often the noise level is painful. I would rather stay home than be subjected to the noise levels that seem more and more common on Celebrity. I am amazed that I find it far harder to find peace and quiet on Celebrity than on RCI - which may explain why we are getting ready for our third RCI cruise of 2014 versus none for Celebrity (we do have a fall Celebrity TransAtlantic on the books). Not sure how many of you followed the thread on the Celebrity HQ meeting on Constellation in Dec 2013, but it appears that the disdain that Celebrity has for its long term passengers is quite high. If they don't want my money, I'll find somewhere else to spend it - we had a very nice 17 day cruise on Oceania within the last year, and the sound levels were quite pleasant.

 

Thom

[yayvacation!]

If it is true that Celebrity is going to try to attract the 30-something crowd in preference to its current demographic, I must say that I am quite disappointed.

 

But Celebrity may need to reconfigure their ships. The younger crowds want fancy sliding boards, climbing walls, rope courses, FlowRiders, ziplines, bowling with VIP lanes and bottle service, bumper cars, and so much more that the older generatiosn do not list as top priorities on a cruise ship.

 

The current elegant Celebrity ships really don't have all that much (besides loud music evidently, that 30-somethings seek.

 

I have to very strongly disagree here.

 

I'm 32, H is 34, sailing X exclusively for 6 years precisely because they offer a more subdued, relaxing, higher class sailing experience.

 

Plenty of 20 and 30 somethings choose X because of it's reputation and offerings. There are such things in life as young people enjoying X for what it is. I personally don't even find X all that refined and opt for a Four Seasons when we want our vacation to truly be luxurious.

[RDC1]

We sail on multiple cruise lines. Next week we will be boarding Solstice. In the past on Celebrity we have enjoyed the different music in different venues. Of course that means having different music in different venues. In the past that included more relaxing music (piano, guitar, classical string trios, etc.) in the foyer area. If that choice is gone then most likely so are we. Most likely to Princess.

[wolfpackmom]

Have you guys not been inside a trendy bar or restaurant lately? It's loud everywhere, not just on cruise ships. Everyone is complaining about it, especially the employees.

[miched]

It could be that Celebrity is playing to the existing clientele. They may feel that the older passengers need the volume up higher to hear it. Many of those don't feel that it is too loud either need a hearing aid or don't have it turned on.

 

Then it may be because they are planning on placing vending machines selling ear plugs next to areas where the music is intentionally played very loud as a way to increase revenue.

 

Then another is they may be planning on adding hearing loss seminars conducted by on board hearing aid sales personel like those fat loss and arch support seminars.

 

🌊🚢🇺🇸🌅

[SUSIEK]

We will be sailing on Reflection this Saturday. I will be checking on the volume!! LOL

 

We have been on several Carnival ships. I have never noticed overly loud music on their ships. 20 & 30 somethings seem to be ok with that as their ships are full of younger crowds.

 

It seems so ridiculous that the higher ups at Celebrity would think that playing overly loud music (outside of a late night club) would attract a younger age group??? Who is the Einstein that came up with this? Annoying is annoying. It doesn't matter what your age is.

Even classical music played loud is annoying!

 

BTW...We are in our 30's & 40's with some disposable income.

[jsf]

Was this CD Alexander the guy from Argentina? We've had him on a cruise a couple of years ago, he's a piece of work.

J.

[southernbreezes]

:cool:

Indeed! mored drinks = more money = more shareholder return! exactly how a business runs.

 

Until such time as the bean counters may notice declining overall occupancy pushing people away that isn't offset by a new incoming generation of cruisers.

 

As the music has been in discussion now for several months, it would seem that the decision is working. Looking at stock prices that continue to rise with RCII, it is also a good indicator that the policy is working favorably.

 

I will see for myself on April 5th but I only hope the high volume does not ruin our love of Celebrity and our 14 day cruise. But I think you are wrong about making more money is the goal here. Celebrity offers a great price on all you can drink package, so if drinking more is the goal they are going to lose money. Most of us have been getting the all you can drink package for free so your reasons do not make good sense. :confused:

[wwcruisers]

This just has to be a corporate issue. We just got off Century, and never had a single drink in our favorite place, the Martini Bar. No matter what time of day it was, or how empty the place was, nobody could get the music turned down. Two years ago, when we last sailed Century, there was no problem getting the volume lowered in the Martini Bar. :rolleyes:

[Johnny Heedless]

I so wonder the age of these passengers who hate the music. It is becoming amusing.

 

I absolutely love these threads (along with all the dress code threads). The hyperbole (i.e., the risk of hearing loss) by some posters are really great entertainment.

 

Here's my theory....

 

Celebrity is using a oppressively loud techno, the Miami DJs, and other forms of hearing-loss-inducing noise to chase away hyperbolic complainers. It very similar how certain merchants use The Mosquito (described in this article) to chase away anti-social teens from their storefronts.

[ORV]

It's a Miami decision for the following reason: louder music means more beverage sales.

 

A study on this showed than when a bar's music was 72 decibels, people ordered an average of 2.6 drinks and took 14.5 minutes to finish one. But when the volume was turned up to 88 decibels, customers ordered an average of 3.4 drinks and took 11.5 minutes to finish each one.

 

Read the research yourself:

http://www.spring.org.uk/2008/09/why-loud-music-in-bars-increases.php

 

Celebrity is putting your onboard spend ahead of your onboard enjoyment. As another poster stated, what a way to run a business!

 

With many passengers having the included drink package wouldn't this backfire on them. It would seem if all drinks are included then they would want people to drink less, not more. Just a little something to consider.

[Ma Bell]

What's really funny is that people think the drink packages are free.

[Christine Frances]

I still think it is a Caribbean "policy" to turn up the music. The itinerary's are shorter, more affordable and attract a younger demographic. These "loud music" threads only seem to pop up in the winter months but hardly any complaints in the summer when most of the ships are in Europe or on longer (ie more expensive) itineraries.

[matondo]

I have sailed on Carnival one time. It was 4 months ago and the price was fantastic. I really got more than my money's worth. We will be sailing on Celebrity in November and I am paying 3X what I paid for my Celebrity cruise I am breaking it down to price paid per day. It will be interesting to see if I get my money's worth.:rolleyes:

[biomedbob]

FWIW our group of 7 cruisers left the theater because of sub-par entertainment and headed for the Martini Bar. Ordered drinks, but found we could not converse without shouting above the music. Asked our server if they could turn it down, and was told no.

 

We left, bringing our drinks to a quieter venue.

 

(In the Crystal lounge, where most of the Elite events were held, the volume of the music was adjusted several times a day. The room where the equipment controlling the volume is on the starboard side has an unlocked black door. Access and pull the slider down. Better solution than cutting the speaker wires)

[TravelerThom]

...I attended the Cruise Critic gathering, along with 60 or 70 others, and several ships officers. When the issue of the loud music was raised by several guests, the Cruise Director explained that the Reflection, as the flagship, was leading the way introducing a new entertainment concept, which would be taken fleet wide! The key was a shift in the demographic profile of their target guests, from 50s to 30-something. The loud music reflected this new direction. Apparently someone in Miami thinks that ultra-loud music = 30 something demographic!

 

There was a lot of dissenting discussion. During the course of this the Cruise Director made it very clear that if the loyal, traditional Celebrity customer did not like this direction, they should find another line to cruise :eek:...

Apparently X Reflection is more successful at driving current customers away than getting new customers. All winter long Reflection seven day cruises have been regularly flogged on Xciting Deals, usually with an entry price of $499 (this week they were offering 29 Mar and 12 Apr at $499; 5 Apr at $549). Even those prices aren't getting me to bite, and I spend the winter in Florida and can drive to the pier.

 

Thom

[cle-guy]

:cool:

 

Celebrity offers a great price on all you can drink package, so if drinking more is the goal they are going to lose money. Most of us have been getting the all you can drink package for free so your reasons do not make good sense.

 

Of my 5 cruises in the last year, only 2 had a free drink package. And I know I don't use the full value of the package, but when I had it, it was nice to just keep it simple and not deal with slips. Also with the drink package, I upgrade to premium, then also purchase drinks priced above the limit to try new things, and pass the extra revenue to X. I imagine many pay the extra $11 a day to get the better package since it was already free - more ancilliary revenue.

 

I think people think everyone takes the free drinks, there are plenty who don't see the value, or are recovering alcoholics, and use prepaid grats or OBC.

 

Again none of us have access the the financials to have the answer here, but have to assume the X people are monitoring carefully and must be finding that:

 

 

• A) The free drink packages are enhancing bookings at higher cabin fares - which is providing positive revenue. We've all seen cabin fares fall when the drink packages go away so the drink package isn't really FREE anyway, the cost/revenue is buried in the cabin fare. I even booked a cruise next spring and took the captain's club discount offer that was in place rather than free drinks package.
   
  
• B) Free drinks are priming folks to be looser with onboard spend and are spending ancillary evens elsewhere.
   
  
• C) Free drinks are pulling the younger demographics in now, to get them hooked and will go away.
  

 

I've read elsewhere that X is considering going all-inclusive much like Azamara. So perhaps the free drinks now is a "bridge" to get people crossed over to the inevitable cabin fare increases that would naturally come with the drinks inclusive. I don't have any official X word to back this. However there was an official press release a couple months ago saying changes are coming this fall, that guests and shareholders are going to be very happy about. I can see free drinks making guests happy, and higher fares making shareholders happy.

 

I simply point to the continue upward growth of the stock price over the last 5 years, from $11/share to $56 a share, one year returns, from $44 to $56. Those are some good gains on shares I think and lend credence that the actions they are taking ARE increasing shareholder value.

[cle-guy]

What's really funny is that people think the drink packages are free.

 

Yep. History shows the cabin fares go down when drink package offer goes away.

 

Or as I found, when drink package was introduced, cabin fares increased 15% over night when I booked The Century Dubai sailing in October. However as I booked a suite, keeping the discounted cabin was a far better value than a drink package would have been - although the package wasn't available on that sailing in April next year anyway, the cabin fares still increased when the package came.

[floridatravelersforlife]

Ding, ding, ding.... we have a winner!

 

EVERY decision made by Celebrity or any other cruise line is ultimately about money. If they are changing the music, you can bet it comes back to money. Maybe they've done some trial and error and found higher spending at the martini bar when the atrium music is loud, or maybe they've looked at the spending of various demographics and found, as cle-guy suggests, that the incoming generation spends more onboard on average.

 

Now before someone replies to tell me "we're in our 60's and we always spend blah, blah, blah" just understand that all any of us have are our own personal anecdotal experiences and somewhat limited observations. There are folks in their 70's who spend a ton onboard, and folks in their 30's who spend little. But Celebrity has actual data that tells them what this group spends ON AVERAGE or what that one spends. If they are trying to attract a younger demographic, it's either because they spend more already and/or Celebrity wants to hook them for the next 20-30 years so maintain a customer base when the 60 and 70 year olds move into nursing homes and stop cruising.

 

Whether they have factual data that shows a link between the music and younger pax, or are just stereotyping that that's the music younger folks want, or they see a link between the music and higher spend in general, I can't say. But one way or another it comes back to money.

 

Now having said all of that, here's my .02 on the atrium and pool music last week on Reflection. I am 48, my BF is 58. We were with a big group but hung out mostly with a few couples in late 40's to mid 50's:

 

Pool music: We spent no time at the pool. We stayed in the alcoves, which were booked solid by the way. During the day, we enjoy the relative quiet up there, the guaranteed seating, and the shade. Only ventured to the pool deck once in the late afternoon to get in the hot tub and didn't notice any loud music at that point.

 

Atrium music: During the day, we didn't notice loud music, although there were various demonstrations from time to time etc. with folks talking on microphone that obviously would have been heard in the library etc. At night, there was music, but personally I never noticed it being so loud as to be bothersome. Was it loud at times? Absolutely, and sometimes it was loud in the martini bar when we were trying to converse, but I kind of liked that it made the whole place feel alive. If the music at night bothered someone sitting in the library or hideaway trying to read a book, I would suggest that maybe 10pm isn't really the appropriate time to be searching for peace and quiet in a public area anyway.

 

 

 

There are plenty of people sailing Celebrity who are in their 40's 50's and 60's -the group folks seem to observe as being Celebrity's current mainstay demographic- who subjected themselves to plenty of loud music in nightclubs and discos when they were younger, and probably have some hearing loss as a result. Yet here they are, going on cruises. If Celebrity is going in the direction of loud music, you can bet this is or will become typical of the other mass market lines. If the older pax leave, they'll be replaced with new ones, who likely spend more money. If those pax still want to cruise, they'll have to decide on a cruise line on some basis other than music. Either way, Celebrity and the other lines will continue to fill their ships. They don't really care who the pax are, as long as the money comes in.

 

As for the dining comment... good grief! Just because a pax may like loud music doesn't mean they want it 24/7.

 

I agree it's the $$$. I just want to add another possible motivation for Celebrity -what better way to get rid of all those Elite , Elite Plus pax by driving them off the ship. X doesn't have to front the bennies if the Elites don't sail. Affinity Rewards are treated today as a liability. Delta Airlines just changed its program, which seems to be harbinger of change.

 

All I know, is if my cruising experience is ruined on our upcoming cruises, bye bye Celebrity, bennies and all.

[Johnny Heedless]

I agree it's the $$$. I just want to add another possible motivation for Celebrity -what better way to get rid of all those Elite , Elite Plus pax by driving them off the ship. X doesn't have to front the bennies if the Elites don't sail. Affinity Rewards are treated today as a liability. Delta Airlines just changed its program, which seems to be harbinger of change.

 

All I know, is if my cruising experience is ruined on our upcoming cruises, bye bye Celebrity, bennies and all.

 

Celebrity is not trying to run off Elites. I'm sure they like the loyalty. What they're trying to run off is Elites who don't like so-called loud and modern music.

 

I'm sure Celebrity has figured out that those that do like louder, modern music also don't spend much on booze (as on others have posted) or specialty restaurants. They probably spend little in the casino, stores, or the photo studio. They probably don't need internet (other than the freebies) unlike those of us who are still in our working years. They probably spent little to nothing on excursions.

 

This has less to do with age and Captain's Club levels and everything to do with spending patterns.

 

People who like louder, modern music ("fun" people based on my perception) are boozers, gamblers, adventurers, and thrill seekers (hence, expensive excursions).

 

People who don't like louder, modern music ("boring" people based on my perception) sit around all cruise reading their paperbacks and complain about the music, unrestrained children, and dress code violations.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Johnny Heedless

[blueboro]

What's really funny is that people think the drink packages are free.

 

Actually mine was. I got a quote on 4 balcony cabins without the beverage package. I came back 2 weeks later after the package was re-implemented and the price was almost identical. Plus a $150 OBC on top.

[southernbreezes]

Celebrity is not trying to run off Elites. I'm sure they like the loyalty. What they're trying to run off is Elites who don't like so-called loud and modern music.

 

I'm sure Celebrity has figured out that those that do like louder, modern music also don't spend much on booze (as on others have posted) or specialty restaurants. They probably spend little in the casino, stores, or the photo studio. They probably don't need internet (other than the freebies) unlike those of us who are still in our working years. They probably spent little to nothing on excursions.

 

This has less to do with age and Captain's Club levels and everything to do with spending patterns.

 

People who like louder, modern music ("fun" people based on my perception) are boozers, gamblers, adventurers, and thrill seekers (hence, expensive excursions).

 

People who don't like louder, modern music ("boring" people based on my perception) sit around all cruise reading their paperbacks and complain about the music, unrestrained children, and dress code violations.

You are 100% right and I could not agree more!:) I will glad to see all of them go to Holland American and cruise. With the number of new ships out there the cruise line needs to appeal to the largest market of people possible or go out of business.