NCL Sky Spring Break Punks 2014

[The Unknown Poster]

What an absolutely asinine thing to say!!

 

Hmmmm...you make a great point. Actually you didnt make any point. Please expand on your statement.

 

My 20 years in the security industry will be glad to debate it with you.

[DinaS]

I just can't understand why it took so long to restrain this guy. What would have happened if he had a knife or something?

 

While I am no expert, the people involved did not appear to be college kids.

 

I would also think that on ANY ship with a thousand or more people, there would be some type of security and someone available (on board and on call) on a moment's notice.

Edited April 14, 2014 by DinaS

[The Unknown Poster]

I just can't understand why it took so long to restrain this guy. What would have happened if he had a knife or something?

 

While I am no expert, the people involved did not appear to be college kids.

 

I would also think that on ANY ship with a thousand or more people, there would be some type of security and someone available (on board and on call) on a moment's notice.

 

I agree with you. I can totally appreciate being patient with a drunk and wanting to de-escalate a situation so it doesnt become worse (and you never want to get physical in front of other customers if it can be avoided), but the security made a few half-hearted attempts to grab the guy, let him get away several times and engage other passengers.

 

When one security finally did attempt to restrain the guy, he didnt seem aware of how to do so properly and the end result was a potentially dangerous spill into the hot tub.

[mitsugirly]

Unbelievable. I hope he was detained somewhere in the cruise room "jail" and then immediately kicked off. What if another innocent passenger would have been hurt by his actions. I don't quite understand what the entire thing was about? They kept asking him for the receipt and something about a drink?? All I could put together was maybe someone else purchased a drink and this guy ran off with it and claimed he bought it. :(

 

I have cruised during Spring Break and have never witnessed this type of behavior before thank goodness. I guess we're lucky that we have never seen this behavior no matter when we have cruised. :)

[Beaver1975]

Hmmmm...you make a great point. Actually you didnt make any point. Please expand on your statement.

 

My 20 years in the security industry will be glad to debate it with you.

 

Wow, someone who believes they are more knowledgable than a group of former Ghurkas who deal with cruiseline situations on a daily basis. Yea you!

[Seanote]

I’m just curious what in maritime law gives the ship’s security officers the power to apprehend and detain. I’m sure there has to be something to protect the passengers in the absence of law enforcement with legal authority.

In most US jurisdictions, private security’s power is pretty limited, with the exception for a merchant’s authority to detain shoplifters until police arrive.

What I see in the video are security officers trying to be as cordial as they can to a paying customer in a difficult situation. It is obvious that the video doesn’t tell the whole story, but besides being intoxicated and disorderly, there was no evidence of a crime being committed.

I wonder if there is any civil recourse that “gentleman” can pursue for being physically apprehended and detained against his will by a non-law enforcement officer.

Any maritime attorneys wish to chime in?

[mitsugirly]

I’m just curious what in maritime law gives the ship’s security officers the power to apprehend and detain. I’m sure there has to be something to protect the passengers in the absence of law enforcement with legal authority.

 

In most US jurisdictions, private security’s power is pretty limited, with the exception for a merchant’s authority to detain shoplifters until police arrive.

 

What I see in the video are security officers trying to be as cordial as they can to a paying customer in a difficult situation. It is obvious that the video doesn’t tell the whole story, but besides being intoxicated and disorderly, there was no evidence of a crime being committed.

 

I wonder if there is any civil recourse that “gentleman” can pursue for being physically apprehended and detained against his will by a non-law enforcement officer.

 

Any maritime attorneys wish to chime in?

 

It's obvious that he "stole" something since they kept asking him for the receipt and to prove it. Then there was several that mentioned they wanted their drink back (or something like that). So obviously he stole something (a drink perhaps) from another cruiser, or from the bar.

[Ilovesailing]

and this is why they should ban alcohol. alcohol makes people go crazy

 

 

Can you imagine how bad it would be if they sold the UDP to them.

And this is why we don't sail 2/3 nite cruises or at spring break or summer time.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Ilovesailing

[rvsullivan]

I’m just curious what in maritime law gives the ship’s security officers the power to apprehend and detain. I’m sure there has to be something to protect the passengers in the absence of law enforcement with legal authority.

In most US jurisdictions, private security’s power is pretty limited, with the exception for a merchant’s authority to detain shoplifters until police arrive.

What I see in the video are security officers trying to be as cordial as they can to a paying customer in a difficult situation. It is obvious that the video doesn’t tell the whole story, but besides being intoxicated and disorderly, there was no evidence of a crime being committed.

I wonder if there is any civil recourse that “gentleman” can pursue for being physically apprehended and detained against his will by a non-law enforcement officer.

Any maritime attorneys wish to chime in?

 

A captain has absolute authority aboard a ship at sea. His assigned security force (on NCL it is almost always Ghurkas and are usually led by a retired British military man) are his enforcers. They do also have a ships brig (jail) if needed.

[Fivehole]

I wonder if there is any civil recourse that “gentleman” can pursue for being physically apprehended and detained against his will by a non-law enforcement officer.

 

Any maritime attorneys wish to chime in?

 

That is what's become of "the American way" - isn't it? Don't feel like taking responsibility for your actions? Just launch a lawsuit in someone else's direction! Thanks for bringing it up. The video itself didn't bring enough bile into my mouth.

 

The guy is a piece of feces, as is anyone who even suggests he is due any civil recourse from his apprehension, IMO. The silver lining: Career stability for our corrections professionals.

 

In a perfect world, after he was cuffed, transported, processed through intake and thrown in a cell with someone who would teach him what it was like to be a) a real bada$$, and/or 2) his lover, I would say "thank you for contributing to my retirement".

[JMHAM1]

I have cruised during Spring Break before and said never again due to the large number of rude and drunken young adults but that was on CCL. I was actually thinking of booking Spring Break 2015 but seeing this video gives me pause.

[Buford T Justiice]

The presence of video / camera has certainly changed law enforcement everywhere.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Buford T Justiice

[Tralfie]

Not for nothing, but my very first cruise was a one-night Cruise To Nowhere on the Gem. I saw FAR worse behavior than this, and it had nothing to do with "spring breakers." I saw folks far older and who certainly should have known better behaving in outrageously bad behavior, and spoke to several very friendly crew members who admitted that they hated the CTN's for exactly that reason... they tend to attract a whole lotta people who are looking to get as drunk as possible during their big night at sea. My trip on the Breakaway in March had a group of spring breakers on board, and honestly, they were a nice group of young folks. VERY well behaved. So while it's always fun to pile on the spring breakers, it's worth noting that when it comes to alcohol-fueled idiocy, age really isn't a factor. LOL

 

Richard/Tralfie

[mitsugirly]

Can you imagine how bad it would be if they sold the UDP to them.

And this is why we don't sail 2/3 nite cruises or at spring break or summer time.

 

Somehow I don't think the Ultimate Dining Package would matter. :D Maybe the Ulimate Beverage Package. :p

 

Not for nothing, but my very first cruise was a one-night Cruise To Nowhere on the Gem. I saw FAR worse behavior than this, and it had nothing to do with "spring breakers." I saw folks far older and who certainly should have known better behaving in outrageously bad behavior, and spoke to several very friendly crew members who admitted that they hated the CTN's for exactly that reason... they tend to attract a whole lotta people who are looking to get as drunk as possible during their big night at sea. My trip on the Breakaway in March had a group of spring breakers on board, and honestly, they were a nice group of young folks. VERY well behaved. So while it's always fun to pile on the spring breakers, it's worth noting that when it comes to alcohol-fueled idiocy, age really isn't a factor. LOL

 

Richard/Tralfie

 

This is why I would never sail a cruise to no-where OR a small 3-4 day cruise because I'm told they are exactly the same way.

[bguppies]

Just saw similar behavior on the Dawn this past week.

 

The last sea day there was 3 completely empty hot tubs, but 17 kids jammed into one, with kids hanging off every inch of railing, all over the sides. (we were watching from the Garden Villa and waiting for one of the brats to fall and cave their skull in)

They weren't letting anybody use the steps beside that hot tub or the steps down into the pool behind it.

 

The ships's staff did nothing to reign these kids in.

 

One server, at the request of someone poolside, asked them to cool it, but the kids laughed at him and threw trash at him until he left.

 

Watched for 15-20 more minutes and nobody else came down.

 

The day before my Brother and his 4 year old twins were walking by the ping pong table outside Cagney's and the kids saw a used condom and an opened, yet still in the wrapper condom, sitting next to the ping pong table.

 

He went into the Star bar and asked the concierge to get somebody to clean the deck up.

 

Sad how boorishly kids act today.

[Ilovesailing]

Somehow I don't think the Ultimate Dining Package would matter. :D Maybe the Ulimate Beverage Package. :p

 

 

 

This is why I would never sail a cruise to no-where OR a small 3-4 day cruise because I'm told they are exactly the same way.

 

Hah hah yes that is what I meant. I mistook drink for beverage.

[mitsugirly]

Hah hah yes that is what I meant. I mistook drink for beverage.

 

I was just playing with ya. I knew what you meant. ;) :D

[sverigecruiser]

Just saw similar behavior on the Dawn this past week.

 

The last sea day there was 3 completely empty hot tubs, but 17 kids jammed into one, with kids hanging off every inch of railing, all over the sides. (we were watching from the Garden Villa and waiting for one of the brats to fall and cave their skull in)

They weren't letting anybody use the steps beside that hot tub or the steps down into the pool behind it.

 

The ships's staff did nothing to reign these kids in.

 

One server, at the request of someone poolside, asked them to cool it, but the kids laughed at him and threw trash at him until he left.

 

Watched for 15-20 more minutes and nobody else came down.

 

The day before my Brother and his 4 year old twins were walking by the ping pong table outside Cagney's and the kids saw a used condom and an opened, yet still in the wrapper condom, sitting next to the ping pong table.

 

He went into the Star bar and asked the concierge to get somebody to clean the deck up.

 

Sad how boorishly kids act today.

 

Could you have phoned someone? Since you were in the Garden Villa they had probably sent someone to at least talk to the kids in the hot tub.

 

I doubt that it's okay to throw trash at the staff.

Edited April 15, 2014 by sverigecruiser

[Doughboy139]

I’m just curious what in maritime law gives the ship’s security officers the power to apprehend and detain. I’m sure there has to be something to protect the passengers in the absence of law enforcement with legal authority.

 

In most US jurisdictions, private security’s power is pretty limited, with the exception for a merchant’s authority to detain shoplifters until police arrive.

 

What I see in the video are security officers trying to be as cordial as they can to a paying customer in a difficult situation. It is obvious that the video doesn’t tell the whole story, but besides being intoxicated and disorderly, there was no evidence of a crime being committed.

 

I wonder if there is any civil recourse that “gentleman” can pursue for being physically apprehended and detained against his will by a non-law enforcement officer.

 

Any maritime attorneys wish to chime in?

 

 

I think you should read up on maritime law or Admiralty Law as it is known...

"Under admiralty, the ship's flag determines the source of law. For example, a ship flying the American flag in the Persian Gulf would be subject to American admiralty law; and a ship flying a Norwegian flag in American waters will be subject to Norwegian admiralty law. This also applies to criminal law governing the ship's crew. But the ship must be flying the flag legitimately; that is, there must be more than insubstantial contact between the ship and its flag, in order for the law of the flag to apply. American courts may refuse jurisdiction where it would involve applying the law of another country, although in general international law does seek uniformity in admiralty law".

 

Admiralty law or maritime law is the distinct body of law (both substantive and procedural) governing navigation and shipping. Topics associated with this field in legal reference works may include: shipping; navigation; waters; commerce; seamen; towage; wharves, piers, and docks; insurance; maritime liens; canals; and recreation. Piracy (ship hijacking) is also an aspect of admiralty.

[pandacruisin30]

I hope they did some action against this punk. I hope it doesn't happen next year when I go on the Sky for my birthday cruise with my mom. I try to avoid spring break but sadly my birthday is during that time and I want to do a cruise for it next year.

Pam

[JLBKL]

We were on the Sky at the tail end of your American spring breaks (from what I understand), at the end of March. I had been very worried reading threads about behaviour during spring break etc. However, we were very fortunate that we didn't experience this type of behaviour a few weeks ago. There were a group or two of drunk young kids, but from what we saw, they were having fun, and were respectful, and just silly more than anything! They were entertaining with their dance moves, and danced with little kids that came around, and generally didn't bother anyone... It was fun! If something like this video occurred on our ship, then I didn't know about it and I'm glad me and my kids didn't witness it.

 

We can't judge all "spring breakers" by this group of morons (who look very old to be college kids if you ask me?!). This video is awful, I feel bad for security, certainly more I wish they would have done sooner, but they must have protocol to follow I can only assume. Would love to know what happened to that guy for the rest of the trip...!

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

[Seanote]

I think you should read up on maritime law or Admiralty Law as it is known...

"Under admiralty, the ship's flag determines the source of law. For example, a ship flying the American flag in the Persian Gulf would be subject to American admiralty law; and a ship flying a Norwegian flag in American waters will be subject to Norwegian admiralty law. This also applies to criminal law governing the ship's crew. But the ship must be flying the flag legitimately; that is, there must be more than insubstantial contact between the ship and its flag, in order for the law of the flag to apply. American courts may refuse jurisdiction where it would involve applying the law of another country, although in general international law does seek uniformity in admiralty law".

 

Admiralty law or maritime law is the distinct body of law (both substantive and procedural) governing navigation and shipping. Topics associated with this field in legal reference works may include: shipping; navigation; waters; commerce; seamen; towage; wharves, piers, and docks; insurance; maritime liens; canals; and recreation. Piracy (ship hijacking) is also an aspect of admiralty.

 

Thank you for this information. To the PP’s, please note I am not advocating for this drunk or suggesting that he file a lawsuit—I did not state that in my previous post. I was merely curios in the rule of law as it applies to authority and jurisdiction of a private security force while at sea.

If this incident had taken place at a US land-based resort, and hotel security grabbed him—this would be assault. If hotel security bound him and hauled him off, this would be kidnapping or unlawful imprisonment. I would think both items would be actionable under US civil law.

[triptolemus]

If this incident had taken place at a US land-based resort, and hotel security grabbed him—this would be assault.

 

That's not so cut and dry. This is why we are able to have bouncers in our bars and nightclubs and drag out people who misbehave.

 

In order to remain in the hotel a guest must behave properly. A guest must pay the amount charged. A guest becomes a trespasser when s/he conducts himself/herself in a disorderly manner and refuses to leave upon request. Additionally, an innkeeper can eject from the hotel, lodging house, any person who is unwilling or unable to pay for accommodations and services of the hotel or the lodging house. A guest can be ejected by resorting to necessary force. There is no necessary to acquire a right of action for ejecting a guest who behaves improperly or disorderly[iii].

 

A guest admitted to an inn can be removed thereafter by the innkeeper for:

 

• refusal to pay his bill;
  
• becoming obnoxious to the other guests by his/her fault;
  
• becoming a person of general bad reputation; or
  
• behaving in a disorderly manner.
  

 

[...]

 

When a guest is obnoxious for some reason, he may be forcibly removed without resort to legal process, provided no more force is used than necessary.

 

http://hotels.uslegal.com/removal-of-guests/

 

[Seanote]

That's not so cut and dry. This is why we are able to have bouncers in our bars and nightclubs and drag out people who misbehave.

 

Not according to this:

What Are Bouncers Legally Allowed to Do?

 

Many people have misconceptions about what bouncers are legally allowed to do. Contrary to popular belief and the way they are portrayed in the media, bouncers are not free to engage in excessive force or violence as they see fit.

 

Generally speaking, bouncers can only use force if it is first used against them. These are the same rights as any ordinary citizen (i.e. the right to self-defense). On the other hand, bouncers are legally allowed to perform such tasks as:

• Issue verbal warnings
  
• Ask you to leave
  
• Check for ID
  
• Refuse entry if the patron is too intoxicated, fails to comply with establishment policies, or engages in aggressive behavior
  
• Call the police
  
• Protect innocent bystanders from violence
  
• Break up fights that are not involved in
  
• Respond with equal force if necessary
  

http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/what-are-bouncers-legally-allowed-to-do.html

[The Unknown Poster]

Bouncers are regular citizens with the added factor that they represent the owner of the private property.

 

If someone enters your private property, even at your invitation, and causes a problem and you ask them to leave, you are permitted to use reasonable force to do so.

 

In a bar, there is an understanding that bouncers will exercise reasonable force to eject unruly patrons rather than call the poilce for every little thing. Trust me, the last thing the cops want is to respond for minor things. On the flip side, cops are usually (but not always) happy to respond with an incident might escalate.

 

I was bar security for twenty years. Threw out a lot of people. Had only minor issues with cops with poor attitudes. Most cops expressed that bouncers deal with many of the same issues as cops (fights, drunks, domestics, weapons, gangs, threats) with none of the protections. its all about being reasonable and using proper restraint techniques as well as documenting everything.

 

Im no maritime law expert but I sure as heck expect that the sucurity people on board have the right and the duty to protect the rest of the passengers. I imagine they took this punk into custody and kicked him off at the next port.