Southwest Airlines

[wieslaw]

Thank you clarea and thank you greatam.

 

I appreaciate the information. I do not travel often, so suggestions that I get are helpful. Wife and I do not like flying and all the extra hassle of getting to the plane ...... but if we want to cruise - we have to fly ( Michigan is a long way and many hours of driving from the major ports).

 

clarea and greatam both of you have been providing many very helpful posts and useful information on this CC board - I have read many of your posts.

 

I do appreciate your presence on this board and I am sure many others do.

 

Thank you - Wes

[tallyho8]

Fattony, I'm not concerned with my seat assignment on the next leg of our flight as that will be DTW and the end of our journey, so as long as I'm on that flight:rolleyes: or God forbid (not really), if we miss that connection, as DH will be newly retired by then, and having nowhere specific to be the next day(s) or days thereafter:eek:. I do plan on taking the next day off work myself. So here's to the final leg or adventure of our Alaskan cruise vacation. I did pay the extra $12.50 pp for early check-in in Seattle though. Hoping to be at the front part of the plane!

 

I believe you wasted your $12.50 pp for early bird because the last few times I flew Southwest they started boarding 30 minutes before takeoff. If your plane lands 40 minutes before takeoff it will probably be about 25 minutes before you are able to get off that plane and get to the next one and by that time most passengers will be boarded already so you just get to pick from the left-over seats.

 

If they start boarding the plane 15 minutes before you get there an early bird pass does no good.

[Ontario cruise duo]

Thanks for your input Tallyho8. I'm only really concerned about being at the front of the plane for our departure out of Seattle, hence the $12.50 early bird check-in. That way we can get off the plane quick in Atlanta to get on to the last leg of our flight to Detroit (with only 40 minutes to spare). As long as I make that flight (Detroit), I don't care if we are at the back of the plane at all.

[Bowie MeMe]

Does anyone know the policy for boarding and seat assignment for passengers in wheelchairs?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

It seems to me that they board the wheel chair passengers first using the first few rows in aisle seats. Especially if passenger frail. They seem to be last off.

 

Last week there were at least 15 wheelchair passengers and several more blue sleeved (needs assistance) passengers on a totally full flight (Weds. at noon -- it looked like lunch at a nursing home :p). I am totally not against wheelchair passengers and will be there myself sooner than I can bear! But the method of accommodating the wheelchair passenger seemed all wrong to me! Maybe needs to rethink boarding procedure. When you take the passenger down early and allow them to sit in an aisle seat nobody can get past them! When flights are full as they are most of the time on SWA these days those seats next to the wheelchair passenger must be used. Regular passengers have to stop the line for the other person to rise and move into the aisle for seats to be filled -- it took forever to fill the plane and FA just kept making the announcement to get in the seat!

 

My suggestion is to have the Boarding Agent place a reserve sign on the wheelchair passenger's seat and fill the plane and then bring the passenger to the seat. But then again at the other end can not get around that immobile person in the aisle seat. Where is the wisdom of Job in this situation?

 

Please don't flame -- I am just making an observation here and wondering if we travelers can come up with suggestions or guidelines that might work better. Rather a safety hazard too if the plane needed to evacuate if that many persons (close to 20) can not exit the plane and keep others from exiting plane and 4 FA only to assist. Oh the joys of modern travel in the steerage class. I actually think that Southwest method is better than any other method I have seen and I fly once a month or so. It can go very smoothly.

Edited May 14, 2014 by Bowie MeMe

[ducklite]

If the plane needs to be evacuated in a major emergency, I'm going right over the tops of the people blocking me. I'd rather try to save a couple of kids who would be able to run when they hit the ground (or who I could easily pick up like a sack of potatoes and run with) after I tossed them down the chute than the person who not only can't move themselves, but would be a major obstacle blocking the way for everyone else both in the plane and at the end if the chute. Kids bounce, elderly people break hips when you look at them wrong. In some cases you can't save them all, so you save the ones most likely to survive. Basic principles of MCI triage.

[6rugrats]

If the plane needs to be evacuated in a major emergency, I'm going right over the tops of the people blocking me. I'd rather try to save a couple of kids who would be able to run when they hit the ground (or who I could easily pick up like a sack of potatoes and run with) after I tossed them down the chute than the person who not only can't move themselves, but would be a major obstacle blocking the way for everyone else both in the plane and at the end if the chute. Kids bounce, elderly people break hips when you look at them wrong. In some cases you can't save them all, so you save the ones most likely to survive. Basic principles of MCI triage.

 

Well, with the obesity epidemic in this country, I'd agree that lots of kids will bounce. Maybe you could throw the older people down the chute (being frail, they just aren't that heavy). After you got a pile of a couple down at the bottom, you could use them to break your fall.

[ducklite]

 

In the event of a sudden onset emergency on a plane requiring immediate evacuation, anyone not able to move themselves or greatly assist with their own evacuation needs to be considered expectant. It is unrealistic to think that they can be removed from a burning or sinking plane when time is of the essence. The goal is to save as many as possible, and the priorities need to be those able to fully evacuate themselves followed by those who need minimal help such as children or the injured but mobile.

[wieslaw]

Please understand the Southwest business model. You will most likely do better on one of the legacy airlines booking BEFORE Southwest opens their schedule. Start looking now. When you see something you like, book it and don't look back.

 

WN business model: CHEAPEST FLIGHT ON THE DAY THEY OPEN THE SCHEDULE. But other airlines have been selling tickets for about 3 months BEFORE WN starts selling tickets. Very, very often those tickets are cheaper (even after tacking on luggage fees) than what you can find on WN when they open their schedule.

 

Hi again,

Today Southwest released the dates for booking to Jan 2015.

 

You were correct in your suggestions above -some of their prices are a little better than the present prices of some other companies but not as good as for example Delta's price for a similar ticket for the same DTW to TPA, that Delta had two or three months ago ( I should have taken advantage of that).

For someone that takes a lot of luggage with them, Southwest might be a good option ..... for someone with just a carry on ...... others might be better.

 

Thanks again

[Globaliser]

Please understand the Southwest business model. You will most likely do better on one of the legacy airlines booking BEFORE Southwest opens their schedule. Start looking now. When you see something you like, book it and don't look back.

 

WN business model: CHEAPEST FLIGHT ON THE DAY THEY OPEN THE SCHEDULE. But other airlines have been selling tickets for about 3 months BEFORE WN starts selling tickets. Very, very often those tickets are cheaper (even after tacking on luggage fees) than what you can find on WN when they open their schedule.

Today Southwest released the dates for booking to Jan 2015.

 

You were correct in your suggestions above -some of their prices are a little better than the present prices of some other companies but not as good as for example Delta's price for a similar ticket for the same DTW to TPA, that Delta had two or three months ago ( I should have taken advantage of that).

Here's another example of shock from someone who seems to have waited for Southwest to open for booking:-

OUCH!!!

 

PAINFUL Fares from Northeast for Christmastime...

 

MHT / BOS to FLL or MIA - $600pp x 4

[Former Goalie]

Here's another example of shock from someone who seems to have waited for Southwest to open for booking:-

SWA fares will react to supply and demand at peak times, just as cruise fares do. Often times, cruise fares will be doubled for holiday sailings.

That being said, if you're creative, and check SWA fares regularly, you can find very attractive pricing. When I started looking BWI-FLL and PBI-BWI return this fall, initial cost was about $277 pp RT (and the first leg was on an earlier flight than we wanted). Seats opened up on the leg that we did want out bound, and I booked at $218 pp RT. The out bound seats are no longer available at the price I paid now. I guess they allocate a certain amount at a certain price point based on supply/demand.

I have flown SWA dozens of times, despite the open seating/"cattle call" boarding procedure, it is our airline of choice. Courteous, efficient, reliable service, excellent routing nation wide.

[greatam]

SWA fares will react to supply and demand at peak times, just as cruise fares do. Often times, cruise fares will be doubled for holiday sailings.

That being said, if you're creative, and check SWA fares regularly, you can find very attractive pricing. When I started looking BWI-FLL and PBI-BWI return this fall, initial cost was about $277 pp RT (and the first leg was on an earlier flight than we wanted). Seats opened up on the leg that we did want out bound, and I booked at $218 pp RT. The out bound seats are no longer available at the price I paid now. I guess they allocate a certain amount at a certain price point based on supply/demand.

I have flown SWA dozens of times, despite the open seating/"cattle call" boarding procedure, it is our airline of choice. Courteous, efficient, reliable service, excellent routing nation wide.

 

You missed the point. Southwest, just like any airline, may lower prices at any time due to yield management. But WAITING for Southwest to open their schedule will very often result in a HIGHER fare (including the price of one checked bag) than booking when the legacy carriers open their schedules (usually 3 months before Southwest opens theirs).

 

All part of the WN business model-be the cheapest on the day they open their schedule BUT they know the legacy airlines have sold off most of their cheapest seats already so it appears WN is the cheapest. And as wieslaw posted in the other Southwest thread, he could have gotten a NONSTOP on Delta for $220 from DTW/TPA return a few months before but waited for Southwest to open their schedule thinking he would get a better price. So now he is paying $228-242 with a stop and change of planes.

 

More travel time, more chances to loose your luggage. And less chance of getting a desirable seat because the plane change MAY include passengers who are continuing on to TPA on the same plane and the middle seats may be the only thing that are open. When you add on the Delta bag fare, I sure would think an extra $3-7 would be worth the less hassle of shorter travel time and a CONFIRMED seat that the passenger chose. And let's not forget to mention miles accumulated in a FF program. Even with the Air Tran acquisition, not very many exotic places you can use those WN Rapid Rewards. NO upgrades to first class, no trips to Europe, Asia or South America. And all those miles on legacy airlines are a real bonus in "currency" when you can fly to Europe for the price of taxes/fees only.

[parody]

... the open seating/"cattle call" boarding procedure

 

I'm not sure that I would refer to their current open seating boarding procedure a "cattle call" anymore. Actually, I would say that it is quite orderly and efficient compared to certain legacy carriers. Last week I flew on a legacy carrier that follows the now normal procedure of charging for checked luggage. Most passengers, therefore, had (fairly large in my opinion), luggage on wheels. Since these can only be stored in the overhead bins and space is a premium on sold out flights, people would stand and congregate at the boarding gate much as they did on Southwest Airlines years ago. Since Southwest does not charge for the first 2 bags, this hoarding mentality is less of a problem.

[ducklite]

I just used some US miles to book BA FIRST CLASS to LHR. Only ran me 10K more miles over what business would have. Seats are chosen, looking forward to the Concorde Lounge, and very glad I don't fly WN who could get me to um... No where I really want to go.

[wieslaw]

You missed the point. Southwest, just like any airline, may lower prices at any time due to yield management. But WAITING for Southwest to open their schedule will very often result in a HIGHER fare (including the price of one checked bag) than booking when the legacy carriers open their schedules (usually 3 months before Southwest opens theirs). ......

 

.

 

Hi,

 

Your posts and a news paper article (link posted in another thread) educated me that Southwest is just like any other airline - price of tickets could be lower or higher than competition ..... and not lower as I belived up to now.

 

I flew on Southwest last year in early december from FNT to MCO and return to FNT ..... seemed to me the prices were lower at that time than any other airline ( except maybe spirit - with no luggage).

I was hoping for the same discounted prices this year on a flight in the same time frame from DTW / TPA or FNT / TPA ....... they are higher priced and now I am a beliver that others might have better prices at the 'righttime" if you lucky ..... I will check more often for next time.

 

I did book with Southwest for my december ( cruise) trip and I am happy that I did the booking as greatam suggest - as soon as they opened the time for booking ....... some of the prices went up two days later and now some prices are a lot higher than others have.

 

Thanks for your suggestions.

Edited May 25, 2014 by wieslaw

[parody]

Certainly there are factors other than fare in why individuals select to use a particular airline. But, there is no getting around the attraction of a nonstop flight. For example, between Providence (PVD) and Baltimore (BWI), the US DOT reports (http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-policy/domestic-airline-fares-consumer-report line 4986 in Table 1A) that in the third quarter of 2013, Southwest Airlines carried 99.3% of the passengers. This has increased over time as folks realize that they are the only airline to fly this route nonstop--something that one would not find on major airfare search sites like Expedia, etc.

[ducklite]

Certainly there are factors other than fare in why individuals select to use a particular airline. But, there is no getting around the attraction of a nonstop flight. For example, between Providence (PVD) and Baltimore (BWI), the US DOT reports (http://www.dot.gov/policy/aviation-policy/domestic-airline-fares-consumer-report line 4986 in Table 1A) that in the third quarter of 2013, Southwest Airlines carried 99.3% of the passengers. This has increased over time as folks realize that they are the only airline to fly this route nonstop--something that one would not find on major airfare search sites like Expedia, etc.

 

WN uses BWI as a hub. Of course they have more passengers there. The other carriers only use it as a terminus. How many people really want or need to fly PVD to BWI? If it wasn't for hub operations, WN wouldn't have any more than any other carrier.

[Former Goalie]

You missed the point. Southwest, just like any airline, may lower prices at any time due to yield management. But WAITING for Southwest to open their schedule will very often result in a HIGHER fare (including the price of one checked bag) than booking when the legacy carriers open their schedules (usually 3 months before Southwest opens theirs).

 

All part of the WN business model-be the cheapest on the day they open their schedule BUT they know the legacy airlines have sold off most of their cheapest seats already so it appears WN is the cheapest. And as wieslaw posted in the other Southwest thread, he could have gotten a NONSTOP on Delta for $220 from DTW/TPA return a few months before but waited for Southwest to open their schedule thinking he would get a better price. So now he is paying $228-242 with a stop and change of planes.

 

More travel time, more chances to loose your luggage. And less chance of getting a desirable seat because the plane change MAY include passengers who are continuing on to TPA on the same plane and the middle seats may be the only thing that are open. When you add on the Delta bag fare, I sure would think an extra $3-7 would be worth the less hassle of shorter travel time and a CONFIRMED seat that the passenger chose. And let's not forget to mention miles accumulated in a FF program. Even with the Air Tran acquisition, not very many exotic places you can use those WN Rapid Rewards. NO upgrades to first class, no trips to Europe, Asia or South America. And all those miles on legacy airlines are a real bonus in "currency" when you can fly to Europe for the price of taxes/fees only.

I am not missing your point. Yes, I am a very satisfied Southwest consumer. Makes sense, as BWI is nearby, and LUV has abundant routes from there. I fly almost exclusively domestically, for various reasons. I am a fan of the business model, regardless of schedules opening up later than the legacies. I can switch at no cost if fares soften, or cancel and apply the balance to a future flight. I have no problem with them reacting to price points of other airlines, that's what makes a market. Having been a stock broker for some time, I suspect share holders can't be too upset as the stock has more than doubled since Jan. 2013.

[parody]

WN uses BWI as a hub. Of course they have more passengers there. The other carriers only use it as a terminus. How many people really want or need to fly PVD to BWI? If it wasn't for hub operations, WN wouldn't have any more than any other carrier.

 

I don't believe what you say is true. The O/D's shown in the US DOT tables are true O/D's. That is they represent people who are flying just between PVD and BWI. Note that line 5098 shows trips between PVD and RSW. Southwest has no nonstop flights (any more) between these airports and folks need to transfer at other airports like BWI but they do not show up in the BWI figures unless they purchased 2 separate tickets for a one-way flight to RSW. Something that probably never happens. (BTW, many folks who fly to BWI are actually going to DC by way of MARC, thereby avoiding going to DCA.)

[ducklite]

I don't believe what you say is true. The O/D's shown in the US DOT tables are true O/D's. That is they represent people who are flying just between PVD and BWI. Note that line 5098 shows trips between PVD and RSW. Southwest has no nonstop flights (any more) between these airports and folks need to transfer at other airports like BWI but they do not show up in the BWI figures unless they purchased 2 separate tickets for a one-way flight to RSW. Something that probably never happens. (BTW, many folks who fly to BWI are actually going to DC by way of MARC, thereby avoiding going to DCA.)

 

 

I don't see the point. So a carrier offers direct service from one regional to another, with a limited passenger base. Big deal.

[parody]

I don't see the point. So a carrier offers direct service from one regional to another, with a limited passenger base. Big deal.

 

You are right, that is not an unambiguous way to address this issue. Rather, go to http://farereport.com/ where you can insert "Departure City" and "Arrival City" and you will still get the 99% market share for WN between PVD and BWI. I didn't cite this source initially as it is not clear whether they use the most current data from DOT. I certainly would like to believe that they are using true O/D information, however.

[janetz]

On May 19th I booked direct flights from FLL to Albany for 114.00 right when they opened for booking.

I have not seen anything as cheap as that.

Edited May 27, 2014 by janetz

[vjmatty]

On May 19th I booked direct flights from FLL to Albany for 114.00 right when they opened for booking.

I have not seen anything as cheap as that.

 

I did the same for nonstop ALB to MCO, when August flights opened on March 3.... no one, not even my regular legacy carrier UA could come close, even months before when UA flights first opened up.

 

I don't know why this board gets into such a dramapalooza over Southwest.... sometimes it's a good choice, sometimes it isn't. Just like anything else in this world ;)

[waterbug123]

 

I don't know why this board gets into such a dramapalooza over Southwest.... sometimes it's a good choice, sometimes it isn't. Just like anything else in this world ;)

 

You're right- sometimes it's a good choice, sometimes it isn't. What causes the "dramapalooza" as you call it is numerous posts along the lines of "...but we are waiting for Southwest because they are always cheaper." And they truly believe that.

[vjmatty]

You're right- sometimes it's a good choice, sometimes it isn't. What causes the "dramapalooza" as you call it is numerous posts along the lines of "...but we are waiting for Southwest because they are always cheaper." And they truly believe that.

 

For some cities it actually is true, and if that is the poster's home airport it may very well be a good idea to wait.... especially if the legacy flights have been released for some time. In their case Southwest may always be cheaper. I attend two conventions every year, and the dates are only given to us six months in advance... by that time the lower priced fares from both Albany and Burlington are gone so I wait for Southwest fares out of Albany.

 

But really, why should such a statement cause drama? Why do you care if others wait for Southwest fares? Obviously they've done it before and it works for them. And if you are worried about others following their lead, a simple clarification that they aren't always cheaper depending on the city is enough without getting snarky and talking about drinking Kool-aid. I am not accusing you personally of doing this but there is contempt for Southwest on this board and it gets tiring.

Edited May 28, 2014 by vjmatty
bad grammar

[Kayaktom]

Fly SW with confidence. I've flown for business for over 30 years...and in my opinion, SW has their act together. I really can't say that about the others.