Selfish or Sensible...Saying no to a tagalong

[Dreacrusingaway]

So, my family is going on our 1st cruise May 25th on the Carnival Sunshine, but my kids REALLY want to go on a Disney Cruise.

 

I found a decent priced (by DCL standards) 3 day cruise next April that amazingly coincides with my kids Spring Break. The weekend prior the same cruise would be $1800 more for my family! :eek:

 

So I am going to book it and invited my brother and his family (wife and 2 kids ages 4 and 2) to come along as they want to give DCL a try too and we are close.

 

The issue is that there is my sister's son who would be the only child in the family not coming. She is a single mom and frankly is a hot mess. She recently moved out of my parents house and my nephew who is 5 refused to go and they allowed him to stay with my parents. (He pretty much gets his way in everything)

 

So not wanting to leave him out, I told my mom about our plans and gave her the pricing for coming along with him in case they (my mom and dad) wanted to come too.

 

Well her response was to ask how much it would cost to add him to my cruise and just bring him with us. :eek::eek::eek:

 

I consider myself pretty much a superstar in the "auntie" department. BUT my kids will be 9 and 13 on this cruise and are quite independent and looking forward to the kids clubs. If I wanted to cruise with 5 year olds, I would have done it when my kids were young, I waited for a reason. He however is quite clingy. He NEVER spends the night anywhere. My sister moved out 2 months ago and he has refused to stay with her a SINGLE night. When my brother's family tries to have a sleepover with him, he goes home every time because he has a fit at bedtime.

 

Now I know it's cheaper for them to pay his fare to come on MY vacation. But if I am paying a few grand for a family vacation. I would prefer not to have him having a hissy fit about wanting to go home when we are in the middle of the Atlantic. Plus he is a bit spoiled and used to having his way. I worry that if I bring him he is going to have a blast in the day, but ultimately ruin my experience at night by crying for my parents.

 

So I am going to tell my mother no and she is going to be ticked and feel like he is being left out since the other 4 grandkids are going and I will be on the family naughty list.

 

I think they (my parents) just don't want to go on a cruise. They live in FL in a city with a cruise port and have never cruised. Plus I think they don't want to pay for it either. Asking my sister to take him is not even an option. She can't afford it. She just does not manage her life very well.

 

Am I being selfish or is my mother being totally unreasonable? I am going to have to deal with the fallout on this and it's not going to be pretty. :(

[Dayenu]

Tell your parents, 4 people per cabin is maximum, and Disney will not allow a small child to be in a cabin by himself. Also tell them, you want some "quality time" with your husband while your children are in kids' clubs.

 

It's a big responsibility to have a small child with your on vacation. By the way, to take a child on a cruise you (or your parents) would need verified letters from his parents to take him out of the country and to make medical decisions for him.

 

You are not unreasonable. The child has a mother to take care of him, and grandparents who assumed responsibilities.

[Eileen G]

No you are not being selfish. I'm not sure you can take him anyway. Going on a cruise is leaving the country and if you don't have custody I'm not sure you could take him even if you wanted. Most staterooms are only for 4 people. Of course DCL might have some for more. There are a ton of reasons to give your mom on why you can't take him so you may not be the bad guy.

[CowPrincess]

I don't think you are being selfish. Choosing to not take him THIS time does not mean you won't take him in the future, when he is more independent or more mature or more adaptable or more whatever.

 

the "4 to a cabin" that dayenu mentions is the perfect "out" for you this time. Now you know you need to be careful when/if you make suggestions like this again to your parents.

 

You have a right to spend time focussing on your immediate family. I hope everyone understands!

[Cruisin' Chick]

IMO (even though I only went as far as a BA in Psych), that kid needs some major therapy. Not being funny at all about this. Taking him along will not be pleasant and if your parents are delusional that taking along a reluctant and spoiled 5-year-old on a cruise without the caretakers (grandma and grandpa) that he seems to trust would be a good thing...it's just boggling my head. He'll be screaming his head off the first night and not be able to get off the ship and making everyone on board miserable. That's selfish on her part if she can't see that.

 

If you can stand to lie (especially if your brother can be counted on to back you up), tell her that cabins have a max of four (or tell her that any cabins that can hold more than 4 are sold out -- which actually may be the truth).

 

Don't let your mother guilt you into it. But I hope she does get some help for him as I can just imagine what he'll be like when he starts school, if he hasn't already. Just be happy that you won't be the one getting the calls from school about his behavior. Sorry, but I can't see him not having issues.

[cruiseryyc]

It's your sister who is being selfish - it's her kid, she needs to learn to take care of him. Absolutely do not take him along, the legalities alone could prove to be too big an issue.

 

Sorry, my first statement might be harsh as I don't know the entire circumstances of your sister's life but ...

Edited April 17, 2014 by cruiseryyc

[Ethel5]

I don't think you're being selfish at all. Your goal is quality time with hubby and your kids...not babysitting a little tyrant who gets his own way all the time. Go and enjoy your cruise. If the family wants to throw darts at you, so what? BTW, I do understand that the little guy is having problems and he is acting out, BUT it's still no reason to ruin your time.

[Algebralovr]

I agree with all the above. You are not being selfish, you are being realistic.

 

I would tell your mother that you are sorry, but you do not want to be responsible for him. You are looking forward to time with your husband and kids, and while you would be happy to see your nephew on occasion on the trip, you don't want to be responsible for him. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Dreacrusingaway]

Thank you so much for the replies, you are correct. Everyone involved would be miserable.

 

We are getting a Family room that sleeps 4-5 but my mom will never know that. My sister in law's mom will likely come so they will have 5 in their cabin, (3 adults and 2 young kids) but I will just say they are able to do that because their kids are both under 5 years old and I cannot. Total lie but oh well.

 

But while I love and adore him I am not his mother or primary caretaker. I live in another state and he only sees me 2-3 times a year max. If he will not spend the night with my brothers family that he sees several times a week or his own mother there is no way he is getting on that ship with me under my care.

 

And yes, he is going to have issues unfortunately. He does go to preschool and is fine with that. His issue will be when he finds out the world does not revolve around him. Unfortunately he is being "grandparented" instead of "parented". Which basically means he gets everything he wants and his way at all times the way grandparents often do....only he has lived in their home since birth so he has never had proper discipline or boundaries. If he only wants to eat hot dogs and chicken nuggets and never eats a vegetable all year, that is what happens.

 

Anyway. Thanks for the assurance that I am doing the right thing by saying no.

[Shmoo here]

Another vote here for "you're not being selfish". You did you part by letting everyone know about the cruise and saying "you're welcome come also", and providing the information.

 

But you weren't volunteering to be a group leader.

[jamessemaj]

I think you are not being in the least bit selfish, but I do wonder why you made the offer to your parents in the first place. Too late now, but it seems that might have just opened a can of worms. Not to offend or be accusatory, but you knew the dynamics at play, including your parents reluctance (refusal?) to cruise even from their own city and the child"s discomfort at being away from them not to mention the difficulty in dealing with him. I would try to set it all aside and tell mom that you didn't intend to assume full responsibility for the child, and sorry if she is unhappy with that.

[Dreacrusingaway]

It's your sister who is being selfish - it's her kid, she needs to learn to take care of him. Absolutely do not take him along, the legalities alone could prove to be too big an issue.

 

Sorry, my first statement might be harsh as I don't know the entire circumstances of your sister's life but ...

 

 

Not harsh at ALL. Believe me, she has pushed the entire family over the edge and my dad's health is suffering. They are too old to be raising a preschooler. I have even offered to have him live with me but I live 6 hours away and they do not want to part from him. Even though it would probably be the best thing in the long run. But it's not my decision to make.

[NMLady]

I also say you are not being selfish. What is your mother thinking??

Somehow you have to find the backbone to say No, stick to it, and don't feel guilty.

[Dreacrusingaway]

I think you are not being in the least bit selfish, but I do wonder why you made the offer to your parents in the first place. Too late now, but it seems that might have just opened a can of worms. Not to offend or be accusatory, but you knew the dynamics at play, including your parents reluctance (refusal?) to cruise even from their own city and the child"s discomfort at being away from them not to mention the difficulty in dealing with him. I would try to set it all aside and tell mom that you didn't intend to assume full responsibility for the child, and sorry if she is unhappy with that.

 

 

The reason my SIL and I agreed it would be best to let them know about it and offer is so that they would not find out about the cruise later and accuse us of intentionally excluding him. Because he has lived in their home since birth they tend to favor him. They are very sensitive to the things that he misses out on because of his situation and try to make up for it, only in the wrong ways.

 

If we had planned this vacation without mentioning it . World War III would have broken out when they found out. We would have been called selfish and insensitive and uncaring plus more. They just get a bit nuts when it comes to him.

 

So we decided to give them a chance to bring him on their own if they choose to. In an effort to avoid drama later. Knowing that he will not even spend the night with his own mother, I honestly did not expect her to suggest that we bring him with us on a cruise out of the country! :eek: So yeah, that one was a shocker for me.

[spookwife]

 

Am I being selfish or is my mother being totally unreasonable? I am going to have to deal with the fallout on this and it's not going to be pretty. :(

 

 

NEITHER.

 

first of all it was presumptuous of your Mother to assume you'd be willing to be the de facto caregiver.

 

BUT something tells me THEY need a freaking break from Junior.

 

it is not your responsibility to make sure he gets to go on vacation. so what if he is left behind? life ain't fair. if I threw a fit every time a set of cousins went on a trip and I couldn't I would have spent my entire childhood in a snit.

[jamessemaj]

Maybe mom assumed you really, really wanted him on the cruise even though she didn't want to cruise and thus her surprise response. So to add to my suggestion to set it aside by saying you didn't intend to assume full responsibility for the child, add plenty of sugar based on what she and everybody seems to know...he would just not be happy and would be unmanageable without her with him. Maybe she would accept that with a smile?

[notentirelynormal]

I wouldn't take him. I've taken my 4 grandkids on a road trip. Started in LA with a 8 YO and a 5 YO and drove up to Seattle and picked up the other 2, a 4 YO and 2 YO. The first two see me all the time. The second two only a few times a year, if that. Frankly I was surprised they second two took to us so well. We spent a week in Canada together.

 

Here's the big kicker you can also use with your parents. In order to take your nephew you must have written notarized permission from both parents. If you can't get that then it's pretty darn simple - "sorry mom, without the documentation we can't take him, darn it". If you really want to go overboard you can ask that they get him a passport :D.

[Ethel5]

...........................SNIP.......................

And yes, he is going to have issues unfortunately. He does go to preschool and is fine with that. His issue will be when he finds out the world does not revolve around him. Unfortunately he is being "grandparented" instead of "parented". Which basically means he gets everything he wants and his way at all times the way grandparents often do....only he has lived in their home since birth so he has never had proper discipline or boundaries. If he only wants to eat hot dogs and chicken nuggets and never eats a vegetable all year, that is what happens.

 

Anyway. Thanks for the assurance that I am doing the right thing by saying no.

 

My heart goes out to you, the grandparents and the little boy. You seem to have a good handle on what's going on with the grandparents doting on him. They are tired and too old to cope with a kid who can't be told "no" to. It takes a lot of strength to do so. The kiddo is going to come to a rude awakening one day when he realizes he is not the center of the Universe. Is there a social worker involved in his care? If not, maybe you could find out what community resources are available for him-maybe through his school? Anyway, please stick to your guns and enjoy your away time with your family.

[Seago2]

I represent children in custody and visitation matters and I see a lot of situations like your nephew has going on. He's just a munchkin at this age and may very well straighten out and "normalize" in a year or two. He's probably been panic stricken that his mom would take him out of the home.

 

You're absolutely not being selfish and you're right, it's a waste of a lot of money to have your vacation ruined if things go badly. You owe it to your own kids.

[wassup4565]

Agree with others, you should take your vacation without adding this (probably) unhappy and needy child.

 

After your vacation, however, please don't hold it against the child that he has become a "problem" for everyone in the family. He didn't ask to be born, and it isn't his fault that his parents (your feckless sister and the father who you don't even mention) have dumped him on your parents. Please try to help this little boy, who apparently offends everyone by his existence. No wonder he is a mess. Nobody wants him. What a sad situation for a little child to be in.

 

I hope the rest of the family can find it in their hearts to give this little child a family - since he seems to have no parents who care.

[Dreacrusingaway]

Thanks. I do want to say that I love my nephew dearly. He can be a bit difficult because he is not used to hearing "no" and when he is with me, I treat him just like I do my own kids. With love AND directing him to behave correctly. He is a sweet child at heart, he just needs a little more direction in his daily life and needs to hear "no" sometimes.

 

I did call my mom and tell her no, we cannot take him with us because if we are out in the Atlantic and he wants to go home and cannot be comforted, it would be a bad thing for me and traumatic for him.

 

So they are considering booking the same cruise and taking him themselves. It turns out my mom has a fear of ocean water and boats (not all water as they have a pool, but being on a ship in the ocean worries her) I never realized it. So that is the primary reason she did not want to go. But she is considering giving it a try so he can come.

 

The one thing I do not want to see is them pay for my sister to take him. THAT may very well make my head explode since they are her main enablers and she needs a bit of tough love so she can grow up.

 

So it will work out fine in the end. Maybe they will come along after all. If not, he can go on a cruise with me when he is a little older.

 

Thanks again!

[Shmoo here]

Thanks. I do want to say that I love my nephew dearly. He can be a bit difficult because he is not used to hearing "no" and when he is with me, I treat him just like I do my own kids. With love AND directing him to behave correctly. He is a sweet child at heart, he just needs a little more direction in his daily life and needs to hear "no" sometimes.

 

I did call my mom and tell her no, we cannot take him with us because if we are out in the Atlantic and he wants to go home and cannot be comforted, it would be a bad thing for me and traumatic for him.

 

So they are considering booking the same cruise and taking him themselves. It turns out my mom has a fear of ocean water and boats (not all water as they have a pool, but being on a ship in the ocean worries her) I never realized it. So that is the primary reason she did not want to go. But she is considering giving it a try so he can come.

 

The one thing I do not want to see is them pay for my sister to take him. THAT may very well make my head explode since they are her main enablers and she needs a bit of tough love so she can grow up.

 

So it will work out fine in the end. Maybe they will come along after all. If not, he can go on a cruise with me when he is a little older.

 

Thanks again!

 

I'm glad it's worked out for you without a lot of bloodshed. If they decide to pay for your sister, just take a breath a let it go. I totally get that that's not what should happen, but please be prepared that it might, and don't let it affect your cruise experience.

 

I think it's great that you're talking about bringing him later. :)

[SadieN]

Tell your parents exactly what you told us---You didn't take your own kids when they were 5. If he cannot spend the night at a relative's house then he is not ready to go on vacation, or anywhere out of his 'element' over night.

There's no shame in you not having him come with you. At times you need to be selfish. YOu have to do what's right for you and yours.

 

How are they holding up? (No need to answer)

Sounds like they could use some Caretaker Relief.

Edited April 18, 2014 by SadieN

[wassup4565]

Thanks. I do want to say that I love my nephew dearly. He can be a bit difficult because he is not used to hearing "no" and when he is with me, I treat him just like I do my own kids. With love AND directing him to behave correctly. He is a sweet child at heart, he just needs a little more direction in his daily life and needs to hear "no" sometimes.

You are a very good aunt. I hope you can find it in your heart and in your busy life to bring this boy in your world as much as you can, as time goes on. He knows nobody wants him, and that`s why he is always demanding -when you don`t believe there`s any more coming in the future, of course you demand as much as you can right now. Maybe that`s all you`ll ever get, whatever you can grab right now.

 

Makes it hard on your kids, however, this demanding little boy, with no manners and no discipline. I really hope your family can rally around and find a way to make him feel like he matters.

 

Have a great cruise! Don`t be too hard on your sister (if she comes) in front of her son. She may deserve it, but he will feel the need to defend her if it happens in front of him.

[5326jan]

What I don't understand is how Grandma got thrown under the bus!!! :eek: :rolleyes: :(

 

She was loving enough to keep her grandchild so that he could have a more stable environment (or so it seems). You say you didn't take cruises because you wanted your children to be more independent, well Grandma didn't wait til she was her age to have a 5 year old to take care of.... but there she is! Speaking as a grandmother, I bet she just wants a few days of peace and quiet!

 

Do I think you should take him? No. It's your family's vacation and since you don't live next door and interact with him on a daily basis, he'll never know. I just don't think Grandma is being portrayed well here and in my eyes she's the hero in this whole drama. Someone should thank her for the unconditional love she is showing her grandson and taking up the slack of your sister, not whine about her "being unreasonable".

 

PS He's probably not spoiled as much as he is traumatized by abandonment. I agree with the previous poster that suggested he should have counselling. Plus, Grandma needs to be shown some appreciation!