Carnival follows RCI and others - bans smoking on balconies

[Ladysilver]

It's funny, I just read a post this morning on the facebook Carnival page about someone complaining they were going to cancel their cruise and rebook with RC so they could smoke on their balcony. NOT I'm still laughing! :D

[LindaO]

The Carnival Paradise experiment was 16 years ago. Since then, the smoking rate has fallen from 25% to 18% (17% if you exclude those living below the poverty level who are unlikely to cruise).

 

Oh My... 16 years... really... seems like just yesterday!!! Time does go quickly doesn't it! I remember being on a RCI ship in Nassau berthed next to the Carnival Ship... so many people just barely off the ship smoking!! It was a good attempt, but unrealistic.

 

Since the Casino is not run by RCI, but is rather contracted out I believe you will not ever see a smoke free casino. Unless some fool manages to catch the Casino on fire, and if you have watched the dealers watching the smokers, that won't happen, thank goodness! The last few cruises the casino wasn't that bad, but I can see where it could be just horrible.

[joepeka]

It's funny, I just read a post this morning on the facebook Carnival page about someone complaining they were going to cancel their cruise and rebook with RC so they could smoke on their balcony. NOT I'm still laughing! :D

 

I saw a similar post on the Carnival board a day or two ago, the person was switching from Carnival to RCI because of the cigar bars on Voyager and Freedom class (I assume RCI still has those?). Funny how the tide of these things flow as policies change.

Edited July 11, 2014 by joepeka

[LetsGetWet!]

Since the Casino is not run by RCI, but is rather contracted out I believe you will not ever see a smoke free casino.

The casinos on RCI are operated in exactly the same manner as the casinos on Celebrity, and the casinos there are already smoke free. In fact, if its contracted out, I'd argue that makes it even MORE likely it will go smoke free relatively soon. The contractor makes no money whatsoever from smokers using it as the smoking lounge and not gambling, while their smoke drives non-smoking gamblers away. And there are more and more reports of just that.

[negc]

Oh My... 16 years... really... seems like just yesterday!!! Time does go quickly doesn't it! I remember being on a RCI ship in Nassau berthed next to the Carnival Ship... so many people just barely off the ship smoking!! It was a good attempt, but unrealistic.

 

.

 

That was then, LindaO, but times and attitudes towards smoking have changed considerably since those days, so what was unrealistic when the Paradise experiment failed might not be doomed to failure now (or in the not too distant future). Reinstituting a ban on smoking in the casino at least on formal nights would be a small but significant step in the right direction. The casino manager and staff can't be too pleased to have smokers congregating there, not gambling, but driving away non-smokers who would otherwise be sitting at the tables or the slot machines and leaving their daily donation.

[LindaO]

That was then, LindaO, but times and attitudes towards smoking have changed considerably since those days, so what was unrealistic when the Paradise experiment failed might not be doomed to failure now (or in the not too distant future). Reinstituting a ban on smoking in the casino at least on formal nights would be a small but significant step in the right direction. The casino manager and staff can't be too pleased to have smokers congregating there, not gambling, but driving away non-smokers who would otherwise be sitting at the tables or the slot machines and leaving their daily donation.

 

I totally agree with you... I would love non-smoking hours or even one evening. On one of my last cruises there was a group of smokers, very close to tables. Some sitting on stools by tables, not gambling at all. It was apparent they were there to just smoke. The pit boss went over and talked to them... and they broke up their group. I don't know how they would enforce a policy of smoking only while participating in casino activities... but that would help. I know that idea isn't going to be popular with smokers.

 

I didn't realize all Celebrity ships had non-smoking Casinos. Maybe they will come up with some more FLorida sailings.

[Clarea]

That was then, LindaO, but times and attitudes towards smoking have changed considerably since those days, so what was unrealistic when the Paradise experiment failed might not be doomed to failure now (or in the not too distant future). Reinstituting a ban on smoking in the casino at least on formal nights would be a small but significant step in the right direction. The casino manager and staff can't be too pleased to have smokers congregating there, not gambling, but driving away non-smokers who would otherwise be sitting at the tables or the slot machines and leaving their daily donation.

I agree that bringing back non-smoking nights might be instructive to the casino people. It could help them determine if the potential players being driven away by smoke is outweighed by potential loss of some of the smokers that are currently gambling. From talking to officers familiar with the profit numbers, they are loathe to lose the smoking gambler.

[LetsGetWet!]

I agree that bringing back non-smoking nights might be instructive to the casino people. It could help them determine if the potential players being driven away by smoke is outweighed by potential loss of some of the smokers that are currently gambling. From talking to officers familiar with the profit numbers, they are loathe to lose the smoking gambler.

It seems that they already should have at least some useful information, if they really go and look. Just compare casino revenue on Celebrity vs. casino revenue on similarly-sized RCI ships. Demographics might make some difference, but I think the data would still be useful.

[CP3o]

It seems that they already should have at least some useful information, if they really go and look. Just compare casino revenue on Celebrity vs. casino revenue on similarly-sized RCI ships. Demographics might make some difference, but I think the data would still be useful.

 

I would think die hard gamblers, smoker or not, would accomidate either rule b/c it gambling was important to them. I don't tolerate smoke well but I know some non-smoker gamblers that figure out how to make due even though they wouldn't stand for it in other venues. They don't like it but they deal, being able to gamble is huge, they would never sail DCL.

 

I'd assume smokers who really enjoy gambling would find a way, chew nicotine gum and find something to fiddle and duck out to smoking area as needed and then get back to gambling. If it was something they really thought of as a priority, they wouldn't let the no smoking rule stop them.

 

It's the "sometimes I gamble for fun" pax that may be turned off enough not to participate b/c they don't agree with smoking rules casino has chosen.

 

The smoker who is annoyed can no longer smoke in casino may choose not to gamble at all. The non-smoker, who might be able to tolerate occasional outdoor smoking among friends but doesn't want to reek of smoke the rest of the night, may chose not to gamble because the casino allows smoking (and has poor ventilation).

 

With more pax being non-smokers, I'm guessing things would sway toward the casino going non-smoking and draw in the occasional gambler that might go to watch a friend play and end up hitting some slot machinces. But, there could be some increase in casino business among smokers who cannot smoke on balcony so now go into casino and while they are there.......... drop a few coins in..........

 

It does seem casinos will become more smoky as pax congregate there. I'd think even some smokers might be turned off about how smoky it is and how their clothes smell if they are the type that usually just smokes outdoors.

[gordiej]

Banning smoking in casinos is bad for business. Empirically, land-based casino revenues decline between 4% and 20% in the first year after the ban is put in place. The main reason is likely that smokers will take breaks to go outside, and they're obviously not losing money if they're not playing. Any benefit from nonsmokers who may play longer or more frequently isn't enough to offset this.

 

I think there are some different dynamics on a cruise ship, but I think there will need to be regulatory pressures to ban smoking in cruise ship casinos, the lines are unlikely to do it voluntarily.

[Constance331]

Banning smoking in casinos is bad for business. Empirically, land-based casino revenues decline between 4% and 20% in the first year after the ban is put in place. The main reason is likely that smokers will take breaks to go outside, and they're obviously not losing money if they're not playing. Any benefit from nonsmokers who may play longer or more frequently isn't enough to offset this.

 

Three casinos in Atlantic City closing down this September. This just could be one reason why. Just sayin'.....

[Yorkvillain]

Three casinos in Atlantic City closing down this September. This just could be one reason why. Just sayin'.....

 

Smoking was not banned in Showboat or Trump Plaza.

[CP3o]

Banning smoking in casinos is bad for business. Empirically, land-based casino revenues decline between 4% and 20% in the first year after the ban is put in place. The main reason is likely that smokers will take breaks to go outside, and they're obviously not losing money if they're not playing. Any benefit from nonsmokers who may play longer or more frequently isn't enough to offset this.

 

Sort of interesting. If 20% or less smoke, and so 80% or more don't smoke, seems like smoking and gambling are very tied together to have this sort of impact by not allowing smoking. More gamblers are smokers as oppose to assuming gambling interest is independent of smoker/nonsmoker status.

 

Sort of opposite of my guess, but it was just that, a guess, no numbers behind it. If fewer gamble on ships like Celebrity where casinos are smoke free, perhaps a much bigger % of smokers gamble than do non smokers. This would be a logical reason for casinos to cater more to the smoker.

 

I wonder if those who like gambling are more likely to enjoy smoking and they are somehow related. If so, all casinos have to worry about the decreasing smoking population.

 

It sort of fits with me............ I'm a non smoker and non gambler so taking smoking out of casino doesn't really affect $ to the casino. Perhaps slightly my comfort level being willing to travel near or thru the casino or possibly dropping a few coins into slots as go to watch friend play, but nothing substantial. RCCL or the casino manager specifically, wouldn't have cause to me me, the nonsmoking non gambler, happy over the gambling smoker.

 

I guess I don't have a dog in this race so if there must be an indoor smoking area, it being the casino doesn't affect me. When it affects enough for non-smokers to affect their profit numbers, then they may change. I can't honestly say the casino will make much more from me either way.

[Captain Jake]

Banning smoking in casinos is bad for business. Empirically, land-based casino revenues decline between 4% and 20% in the first year after the ban is put in place. The main reason is likely that smokers will take breaks to go outside, and they're obviously not losing money if they're not playing. Any benefit from nonsmokers who may play longer or more frequently isn't enough to offset this.

 

I think there are some different dynamics on a cruise ship, but I think there will need to be regulatory pressures to ban smoking in cruise ship casinos, the lines are unlikely to do it voluntarily.

not true,revenues actually increased ,Smokers actually have less money for gambling and other activities due to the cost of their habit. Also smokers decrease profits due to the extra cost of cleaning and repairs from smokers and the loss of revenue from non smokers avoiding venues. Banning smoking is win-win for business

:cj

Edited July 13, 2014 by Captain Jake

[time4u2go]

Banning smoking in casinos is bad for business. Empirically, land-based casino revenues decline between 4% and 20% in the first year after the ban is put in place. The main reason is likely that smokers will take breaks to go outside, and they're obviously not losing money if they're not playing. Any benefit from nonsmokers who may play longer or more frequently isn't enough to offset this.

 

I think there are some different dynamics on a cruise ship, but I think there will need to be regulatory pressures to ban smoking in cruise ship casinos, the lines are unlikely to do it voluntarily.

 

not true,revenues actually increased ,Smokers actually have less money for gambling and other activities due to the cost of their habit. Also smokers decrease profits due to the extra cost of cleaning and repairs from smokers and the loss of revenue from non smokers avoiding venues. Banning smoking is win-win for business

:cj

 

Can either of you cite your references? I'd be curious to read more about both positions.

[Constance331]

 

This is a joke, right?

 

Whatever I pay for cigarettes has nothing to do with how much I gamble. If money was that tight - for me - I would have NO business indulging in either vice.

[oneputt18]

not true,revenues actually increased ,Smokers actually have less money for gambling and other activities due to the cost of their habit.

:cj

 

I hope your not serious, as a one pack as day smoker $6 is one pull of the slot.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

[DON M.]

The casinos on the ship are going to be getting alot more smoke. Its 10:00 and you cant smoke in your room or on your balcony. You can go up to the pool deck but you could go into the casino maybe with the intention of not gambling at all. I know want Iam doing.

Studies have shown in Las Vegas, that the % of gamblers who smoke is about the same as

the national ave. 18-20%. Now throw in all the people who are just in the ships casino to smoke. A place where a few years ago would be one of a few options.

If I were a non-smoking zealot I would not be going into the casino.

[momof3cruisers]

It may get worse now. That's my fear. (my upcoming cruise is with Royal, but I mostly cruise NCL lately)

 

According to the Carnival smokers, vast numbers of them will switch to NCL thus making profits soar at NCL and completely destroying any hope for Carnival. It's rather amusing, really. They have forgotten about those of us who will now book balconies as we don't have to worry about cigarette smoke.

[rummenroman]

This does not surprise me... and whether you like it or not expect all cruise lines who are members of IMO (International Maritime Organization) and participate and abide by SOLAS (International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea) to follow suite in the near future. Or... they have the option to install extremely expensive fire suppression systems and enhanced firewalls, etc, which is nearly cost prohibitive. The reason... after the 2006 fire on the Princess Ship SOLAS outlined guidelines to prevent future such events. People still debate the origin of this fire, but no matter how that fire started, SOLAS outlined several items that needed to happen to all member cruise ships. One choice was to ban smoking on balconies... or make very expensive changes to existing structures and furnishings. It wasn't a difficult decision for most cruise lines.

 

Wait you mean to tell us that it really wasn't the whining of the non-smokers that caused the change? Don't tell them that!

[Captain Jake]

I hope your not serious, as a one pack as day smoker $6 is one pull of the slot.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

 

6 dollars a day is 2200 dollars a years .

Knock,Knock,Helloooooooooooooooooo .Quit kidding yourself .That would pay for a couple cruises :D

Needless to say the cruise lines know this .They want part of the 2200 bucks that's not going up in smoke.

River cruises that are becoming BIG and do not have casinos .Bars and spa services are growing faster than casinos

:cj

Edited July 13, 2014 by Captain Jake

[Captain Jake]

Wait you mean to tell us that it really wasn't the whining of the non-smokers that caused the change? Don't tell them that!

Whatever the reason ,The results are fantastic

:cj

[Captain Jake]

Can either of you cite your references? I'd be curious to read more about both positions.

needless to say I more cleaning is needed in smoking rooms than non smoking rooms adding to cost along with repairs from the occasional smoking mishaps.

Revenue in certain casino is mainly due to average incomes down due to the economy ,the price of gas and casinos opening in neighboring states .

With the addition of Maryland casinos people in the Washington,DC region no longer have to drive to Delaware,New Jersey, West Virginia to gamble which is bringing down revenues by millions.

:cj

[marshalls1963]

Just got off the explorer yesterday- plenty of balcony smokers

[time4u2go]

needless to say I more cleaning is needed in smoking rooms than non smoking rooms adding to cost along with repairs from the occasional smoking mishaps.

Revenue in certain casino is mainly due to average incomes down due to the economy ,the price of gas and casinos opening in neighboring states .

With the addition of Maryland casinos people in the Washington,DC region no longer have to drive to Delaware,New Jersey, West Virginia to gamble which is bringing down revenues by millions.

:cj

 

So the answer is, no, you can't provide references. I didn't think so.