Holland America - Premium or Mainstream cruiseline?

[marym933]

I will let you know after our July cruise. Of the many lines I have sailed, Disney is at the top for service. NCL at the bottom.

[jvalentine]

You get what you pay for. You can't expect a premium/luxury cruise for $399...and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you want a more refined experience pay for it in a suite upgrade, dining add-ons or on another line. A $399 seven day cruise is roughly $57 a day for lodging and all regular meals. Everyone loves a great deal, but if you are wanting luxury...you pay for it.

I've been on a few cruises, certainly not as many as most on here, but it seems pretty simple to me. I know pretty much what I'm getting when I book and if something is not up to snuff on the cruise (whatever line I'm on) then they've always been able to fix the issue if at all possible.

[cruz chic]

[quote name='jvalentine']You get what you pay for. You can't expect a premium/luxury cruise for $399...and that's not necessarily a bad thing. If you want a more refined experience pay for it in a suite upgrade, dining add-ons or on another line. A $399 seven day cruise is roughly $57 a day for lodging and all regular meals. Everyone loves a great deal, but if you are wanting luxury...you pay for it.

I've been on a few cruises, certainly not as many as most on here, but it seems pretty simple to me. I know pretty much what I'm getting when I book and if something is not up to snuff on the cruise (whatever line I'm on) then they've always been able to fix the issue if at all possible.[/QUOTE]

The problem is many of us pay multiples of this for various reasons. I wish hal would have an early booking bonus and then they wouldn't have to cheapen the experience by giving the farm away to so many.

[scamper]

My first cruises on HAL in the early 90s were much more upmarket than in the last few years. I still enjoy my HAL cruises, but I can remember having pre-dinner cocktails on the Crow's Nest every evening and they always had an hors d'oeuvre table set up. I don't remember the last time I saw one. They also passed around dinner menus then, but not seen one since. At least they provide them for Neptune Suite passengers in their suites. I think I saw where they offer a canape table in rotating lounges for maybe an hour a night nowadays, but I could be wrong here. I also remember afternoon tea at least once in the CN where the waiters passed food on trays and brought the tea selection to your seat. Not anymore. It's little things like these plus good food and service that, for me at least, make the difference between a mass market line and a premium line,

[Granny DI]

If you read the posts at Celebrity, Cunard, RCL, NCL, Princess etc everyone is complaining about the same things. It is not brand specific. This is why we now cruise in suites and eat in specialty restaurants. Prices for our cruises now are about the same as when we sailed in the lowest balcony category and ate only in the MDR. You get what you pay for.

[Tante Amalie]

I'm amazed that anybody would even consider calling HAL a premium line. If so, I suspect that they've never cruised on an upscale line.

Having said that, HAL can still offer good value for a mainstream experience. They do have some attractive prices, especially after the final payment date. It all comes down to getting what you pay for. Cost cutting is evident for every cruise line, but HAL has been particularly aggressive in this domain. You get banquet/cafeteria food and a cattle car approach to excursions. If that's what you're looking for, HAL is right up your alley. If you want something better, you'll have to pay for it.

[frankc98376]

[quote name='Granny DI']If you read the posts at Celebrity, Cunard, RCL, NCL, Princess etc everyone is complaining about the same things. It is not brand specific. This is why we now cruise in suites and eat in specialty restaurants. Prices for our cruises now are about the same as when we sailed in the lowest balcony category and ate only in the MDR. You get what you pay for.[/quote]

I fully agree. This is why ships have so many more suites and more specialty restaurants

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='frankc98376']I fully agree. This is why ships have so many more suites and more specialty restaurants[/QUOTE]

I predicted this years ago when the ships started getting larger, and saw that fares were being lowered to fill them. We are going back to a multi-class system at sea without officially announcing it...

[sammiedawg]

HAL is a value line nowadays, especially if you get a good deal on ocean view. Balconies and suites are not worth the mone due to the smoking issues. IMO go to a premium line for a better experience, especially to get better food and nicer ships.

[rjrpar]

You get what you pay for. HAL is less than half of a premium line. If anyone thinks otherwise, you are living in the distant past.

[Jean1946]

Last cruise I booked I called the TA that I always used and she told me she had been promoted the luxury cruise department. She said she would assist me until they made her stop. So, to not get her in trouble I went with someone else who is amazing. I like HAL, but they are giving much less and wanting more for it.

[Tante Amalie]

I sometimes wonder if HAL is making a strategic error by marketing itself as a premium/upscale line. I get the feeling that they are setting themselves up for disappointed clients by creating expectations that they can't meet. There's nothing wrong with being mainstream. But if you tell your customers that they will get a higher quality experience, you better deliver it.

[Lottie A]

Having not yet sailed on HAL ....but will be doing so in 3 weeks, I probably can't yet compare accurately. However I have sailed many times on "luxury" and "premium" cruise lines and I am not expecting the HAL experience to be anything like that. My favourite cruise lines are Azamara, Silversea, Crystal, Celebrity Aqua and Cunard but in my mind I do not class or expect HAL to be at the same level.

 

However I am expecting a great cruise on Zuiderdam, the itinerary is interesting and we are going to try the alternative restaurants with an open mind. I have heard good things about The Pinnacle Grill and the extra cost seems very reasonable to me. I think the deal we got on a Gty balcony was excellent and while I think HAL may be more "mainstream" than the above cruiselines, does it really matter what the label is if they provide value for money and a good cruise experience?

 

Just by the way though....I totally disagree with Granny Di's earlier post about Azamara. IMHO it is the best cruise experience to be had anywhere and will always be my preferred cruise line of choice. However, I do have a feeling that in future, HAL will be part of my preferred group too. :)

[sammiedawg]

I sometimes wonder if HAL is making a strategic error by marketing itself as a premium/upscale line. I get the feeling that they are setting themselves up for disappointed clients by creating expectations that they can't meet. There's nothing wrong with being mainstream. But if you tell your customers that they will get a higher quality experience, you better deliver it.

 

I think some HAL loyalists on CC set up expectations that cannot be met. This happens a lot but especially when a newbie asks how does HAL compare to other lines. I laugh out loud reading the posts that ensue. Especially when someone insists the food is better on HAL than a premium or luxury line.

[Bostonjetset]

This is such a subjective topic that answers are all over the board. I have noticed, however, that many people who say HAL is not a premium line are people who either always sail "luxury" lines [which is always going to be a step or more above "premium"] or those who have been sailing HAL for years and have noticed cutbacks from how things used to be.

 

A case can be made that almost ALL lines are mainstream with the exception of those ultra-luxury lines that do unique "one-off" itineraries for a very small group of extremely affluent customers with personalized service and only gourmet food offerings.

 

Among the popular cruise lines marketed to North American passengers, I have often seen the opinions of travel experts to go like this [in no particular order within each category]:

MAINSTREAM = Carnival, Norwegian, Royal Caribbean

PREMIUM = HAL, Princess, Celebrity, Disney

ULTRA-PREMIUM = Cunard, Oceania, Azamara, Windstar

LUXURY = Seaborne, Silversea, Crystal, Regent

 

My experience so far is much less than many members on here but IMO, there is a marked difference between CCL/NCL and HAL/Princess with the latter offering much more refined service, better food, and nicer interior fittings on the ships. To group them all in the same category is, again IMO, inaccurate.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Bostonjetset

[iancal]

We cannot speak to Disney, but we certainly do not see any difference between the mainstream the premium lines on that list.

 

They are different to a certain extent-yes. But we have had great service and some very good meals on Carnival, just as we have on HAL, Celebrity, etc. Service has been very good on all of them...save for the one or two times on all lines when you hit a poor sailing. Some people make fun of NCL's paint job and like to denigrate the line because of it. We would rather have a painted bow than be on a ship in a cabin with AC, HVAC, or plumbing challenges.

 

If we decide on a Carnival ship, we are very careful as to what ship we sail. Exactly the same when we are considering a HAL cruise. Our last RCI cruise this past March, was mediocre. The one before, last October, was wonderful-certainly as good as any HAL, Princess, or Celebrity cruise that we have had. Inconsistency and expectation gap seems to be the order of the day on many cruise lines-just as it is on HAL. So we simply reset our expectations or move up to a true premium cruise line. Despite this, we consider them all to be good values if the price is right. We would not pay full bore on any of them. We would rather move up to what the OP refers to as an ultra premium line (never Cunard though) that delivers better value to us.

 

I think that cost cutting and oversupply has blurred those so called lines of mainstream and premium.

 

HAL might be considered a premium line by those who only cruise on HAL. Our reality is that it is very much mainstream/mass market. What we see in HAL is cost cutting. We see it on other lines but not to the same extent. What we do see on other lines is a focus on other revenue streams. It is almost as though HAL has opted to stay afloat by cutting costs rather than finding ways to really increase on board spending. IMHO, that is a going out of business strategy in these days of oversupply.

Edited June 7, 2015 by iancal

[Hlitner]

This is such a subjective topic that answers are all over the board. I have noticed, however, that many people who say HAL is not a premium line are people who either always sail "luxury" lines [which is always going to be a step or more above "premium"] or those who have been sailing HAL for years and have noticed cutbacks from how things used to be.

 

A case can be made that almost ALL lines are mainstream with the exception of those ultra-luxury lines that do unique "one-off" itineraries for a very small group of extremely affluent customers with personalized service and only gourmet food offerings.

 

Among the popular cruise lines marketed to North American passengers, I have often seen the opinions of travel experts to go like this [in no particular order within each category]:

MAINSTREAM = Carnival, Norwegian, Royal Caribbean

PREMIUM = HAL, Princess, Celebrity, Disney

ULTRA-PREMIUM = Cunard, Oceania, Azamara, Windstar

LUXURY = Seaborne, Silversea, Crystal, Regent

 

My experience so far is much less than many members on here but IMO, there is a marked difference between CCL/NCL and HAL/Princess with the latter offering much more refined service, better food, and nicer interior fittings on the ships. To group them all in the same category is, again IMO, inaccurate.

 

We suspect that anyone who compiled that list has not been on all those lines (at least in the past decade). We have been on most and would not agree with much of the categorizations. We would add HAL, Princess and even Celebrity to the Mainstream Category. However, within that category there are some major differences not just between the lines but also between various ships (and classes of ships) within the lines. We would also add Cunard to the mainstream list with a caveat that this line does operate a class system. So if you are one of the few in a "Grill" Suite you would have a Premium Experience. But it is now the same with Norwegian. While this is a very average mainstream line, for those booking a "Haven" Suite it becomes a Premium Line (some argue its Ultra Premium).

 

As to Celebrity, it is a very tough line to categorize. Sometimes we think its a very premium line and other times we think its just a mass market line (we are Elite Plus with Celebrity). But for those in Aqua Class (we often do this since the cost is very reasonable) or the Suites it is definitely a premium line.

 

As to HAL, 5 years ago we would have called it a premium product. This is no longer true as we now find their food and entertainment to be in a class that is sometimes even surpassed by Carnival! But again the ships do matter as our experience on the Prinsendam (over 150 days on this ship) has always been Premium cuisine....even if the physical ship was falling apart :).

 

Hank

[VioletHorse]

We suspect that anyone who compiled that list has not been on all those lines (at least in the past decade). We have been on most and would not agree with much of the categorizations. We would add HAL, Princess and even Celebrity to the Mainstream Category. However, within that category there are some major differences not just between the lines but also between various ships (and classes of ships) within the lines. We would also add Cunard to the mainstream list with a caveat that this line does operate a class system. So if you are one of the few in a "Grill" Suite you would have a Premium Experience. But it is now the same with Norwegian. While this is a very average mainstream line, for those booking a "Haven" Suite it becomes a Premium Line (some argue its Ultra Premium).

 

As to Celebrity, it is a very tough line to categorize. Sometimes we think its a very premium line and other times we think its just a mass market line (we are Elite Plus with Celebrity). But for those in Aqua Class (we often do this since the cost is very reasonable) or the Suites it is definitely a premium line.

 

As to HAL, 5 years ago we would have called it a premium product. This is no longer true as we now find their food and entertainment to be in a class that is sometimes even surpassed by Carnival! But again the ships do matter as our experience on the Prinsendam (over 150 days on this ship) has always been Premium cuisine....even if the physical ship was falling apart :).

 

Hank

 

I absolutely agree with everything that you've said. In the last 5 years we've sailed on HAL, Princess, Celebrity and Carnival. While there are some differences among these lines, our impression is that these lines are much more similar in overall operation and experience than they are different.

 

We have an upcoming cruise on Celebrity, and yes, we once again booked Aqua Class as we found it to be a significant improvement over the regular Celebrity product.

 

We are not high maintenance travelers, and choose cruises based on itinerary and price. Specific ships are off our list based on their itineraries specifically because of issues with physical plant. HAL's R & S class ships for warm weather cruises come to mind as their HVAC is problematic for us - much too warm. The Caribbean Princess is another with the same problem.

 

We'll be embarking on a Carnival ship this week, and fully anticipate that we'll have a great cruise.

[Bostonjetset]

We suspect that anyone who compiled that list has not been on all those lines (at least in the past decade). We have been on most and would not agree with much of the categorizations. We would add HAL, Princess and even Celebrity to the Mainstream Category. However, within that category there are some major differences not just between the lines but also between various ships (and classes of ships) within the lines. We would also add Cunard to the mainstream list with a caveat that this line does operate a class system. So if you are one of the few in a "Grill" Suite you would have a Premium Experience. But it is now the same with Norwegian. While this is a very average mainstream line, for those booking a "Haven" Suite it becomes a Premium Line (some argue its Ultra Premium).

 

As to Celebrity, it is a very tough line to categorize. Sometimes we think its a very premium line and other times we think its just a mass market line (we are Elite Plus with Celebrity). But for those in Aqua Class (we often do this since the cost is very reasonable) or the Suites it is definitely a premium line.

 

As to HAL, 5 years ago we would have called it a premium product. This is no longer true as we now find their food and entertainment to be in a class that is sometimes even surpassed by Carnival! But again the ships do matter as our experience on the Prinsendam (over 150 days on this ship) has always been Premium cuisine....even if the physical ship was falling apart :).

 

Hank

 

I absolutely agree with everything that you've said. In the last 5 years we've sailed on HAL, Princess, Celebrity and Carnival. While there are some differences among these lines, our impression is that these lines are much more similar in overall operation and experience than they are different.

 

We have an upcoming cruise on Celebrity, and yes, we once again booked Aqua Class as we found it to be a significant improvement over the regular Celebrity product.

 

We are not high maintenance travelers, and choose cruises based on itinerary and price. Specific ships are off our list based on their itineraries specifically because of issues with physical plant. HAL's R & S class ships for warm weather cruises come to mind as their HVAC is problematic for us - much too warm. The Caribbean Princess is another with the same problem.

 

We'll be embarking on a Carnival ship this week, and fully anticipate that we'll have a great cruise.

 

I can appreciate all these points of views and certainly do not diminish others' experiences. I, too, have had wonderful cruises on both Carnival and Norwegian; they both offer a great product for the price [although I haven't been on NCL since Frank del Rio took the helm and started extra charges for just about everything].

 

However, I still would not place CCL and NCL in the same category as HAL and Princess, based on my limited experiences. When travel publications rate products [ships, hotels, restaurants, etc] they generally use a scale that includes various aspects of the experience such as service, cuisine, ambiance, etc. [much like Michelin ratings]. When looked at from this point of view I have noticed a more premium product on HAL and Princess.

 

Things like the changing of silverware between courses, the proper method of serving dinners and clearing empty plates, white-glove tea service, addressing passengers as Sir/Madame and then adding their given names to the end of the address after learning and remembering it, fresh flowers throughout the ships, etc. may not be important to a lot of people in this increasingly casual day and age, but they do weigh in on a professional's rating of a product. As I said before, I didn't have any bad experiences on CCL or NCL but I did find their service to be less refined and less pampering. The aforementioned examples were found in abundance on both Princess and HAL but not so much on CCL and NCL.

 

And since many on these boards like to mention price, it is true that HAL has "fire sales" close to sailing date to fill the ships but their average price is still higher than those of NCL and CCL. All lines have dramatic price drops at the last minute [with the general exception of the highest end luxury lines] but many people paid much more.

[iancal]

These categories seem to be so personal to people and guess they always will be.

 

I understand the comments about silver service, white gloves, fine china etc.

But our view is if the food on those plates is mediocre a large percentage of the time and the service is cut back so much that wine comes between the entrée and the coffee then what is the point?

 

We have been politely addressed as Sir and Madam on every cruise that we have been on. This is certainly not a unique attribute of premium cruise lines. It is the standard in the hospitality industry.

 

Price for us does not make a Premium cruise line or a premium product. It can be an indicator only. You have only too look at some of the expensive so called premium/luxury automobiles produced by the big 3 US manufacturers to see that.

Edited June 7, 2015 by iancal

[Aquahound]

However, I still would not place CCL and NCL in the same category as HAL and Princess, based on my limited experiences. When travel publications rate products [ships, hotels, restaurants, etc] they generally use a scale that includes various aspects of the experience such as service, cuisine, ambiance, etc. [much like Michelin ratings]. When looked at from this point of view I have noticed a more premium product on HAL and Princess.

 

You are correct. The categories of cruise lines come with specific definitions. Several years ago, I remember those categories being Mainstream, Premium and Luxury. Now, if you Google cruise line categories, every site seems to have different categories with different definitions. Regardless, HAL, Princess and Celebrity are almost always grouped into the same category, which is one step above CCL, NCL and RCI. One site even had CCL in a lower category by itself called "Popular Oriented."

Edited June 7, 2015 by Aquahound