Holland America - Premium or Mainstream cruiseline?

[taxmantoo]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']No one was saying they were alike. Comparing their service levels without recognizing the massive price differential is pointless.[/QUOTE]

Never even alluded to anyone saying they were alike :rolleyes: All I said was there was nothing wrong in comparing them but concluding they were alike was wrong!

[earljr]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']No one was saying they were alike. Comparing their service levels without recognizing the massive price differential is pointless.[/QUOTE]

agree, spot on

[Tampa Girl]

[QUOTE=Augie's mom;43824333]We had cold towels and cold drinks when we came back to HAL when in Bermuda, friends who have done warm climate cruises with HAL said they did it too.
Terri[/QUOTE]

We have taken 8 HAL cruises and have always been welcomed back after an excursion with cold towels and cold drinks.

[Jade13]

Mainstream, mass market

[Jade13]

[quote name='iancal']HAL is perfect for the Panama Canal IF, and it can be a big IF, the AC is working properly. If not...take the next ship![/QUOTE]

We experienced the Panama Canal without proper working air conditioning. It wasn't a problem in South America or on our way to NYC, but Panama was hot.

[iancal]

We view HAL as mainstream/mass market. Same with Celebrity, Princess,etc.

At one time we viewed HAL, Celebrity, Princess as about equal given our preferences. Now we view HAL as second to both. Age of the HAL fleet and maintenance issues have put us off. Edited May 10, 2015 by iancal

[cruisemom42]

[quote name='eandj']I see Oceania and Azamara as "Premium". Then comes the luxury lines like SilverSea and Regent.

[U]All [/U]the rest from NCL to HAL and everything in between are "mainstream". HAL doesn't do anything that Celebrity doesn't. And the fact that X has all the new S class ships with interesting categories of rooms and services puts it above the traditional HAL for many people.
Others like the older smaller ships of HAL. Just a matter of taste. And for many frequent travelers, the matter of itinerary choices becomes real important when comparing different ships.[/QUOTE]

This comes closest to what I think.

HAL perhaps was once closer to a Premium line, but that was before we truly had "Premium" or "Luxury Lite" lines like Oceania and Azamara that fill the niche. Edited May 10, 2015 by cruisemom42
Edit: Never mind, just realized this is not a new thread.

[summer slope]

[quote name='iancal']We view HAL as mainstream/mass market. Same with Celebrity, Princess,etc.

At one time we viewed HAL, Celebrity, Princess as about equal given our preferences. Now we view HAL as second to both. Age of the HAL fleet and [B]mice issues [/B]have put us off.[/quote] The bolding is mine. What mice issues?

[iancal]

Autocorrect....should read maintenance issues have put us off Edited May 10, 2015 by iancal

[rkacruiser]

Personally, I have not experienced, thankfully, the maintenance issues that some unfortunately have. The age of the ships do not concern me. (Perhaps the problems that HAL, thus Carnival Corporation, have with some of these ships ought to be of concern to them. When I was on Veendam, she was barely 2 years old and I saw quality of construction issues that, if my name was Micky Arison, would have found me "in the ear" of the CEO of the Italian shipyard that built her.)

I have no issues with the service crew. They are well-trained, most very guest-oriented, and provide the HAL service that I expect, to the best of their ability.

Entertainment is improving, with an exception or two that has been noted on CC during this past Winter cruising season.

Cuisine is, and I don't think ever was, like Cunard's Queen's Grill. Silver service is long gone and, probably, not missed by the lady on Rotterdam V whose Steward lost control of his platter and spilled au jus down the woman's back. Yes, some of the more expensive preparations, items have disappeared from the menus. But, the food quality always has satisfied me. The quality of the preparations depends upon the ship's Executive Chef's interpretation of the receipes; some are better than others, not surprisingly.

It is the ship management area that needs work. If HAL wants to be a "cut above the rest", those on the ship: the Captain, the Hotel Director--the two most Senior Management officers aboard--need to be in tune with the Company's Signature of Excellence slogan and the stated desire "to make each voyage a memory of a lifetime". And, they need to so direct those who work under them, in all departments. As I think about it, one might be amazed that the cabin, dining room, lido, deck, and lounge staff do as well as they do when the "Seniors" lack that guest-friendly attitude. The difference: training.

Mr. Ashford, the new CEO, has a Human Relations background. Maybe Mr. Kruse et al have recognized where the problem, if it exists in their eyes, lies. Lots of concern about an outside-the-industry hire of Mr. Ashford when it happened. But, maybe it is designed to address the management side of HAL.

To address the OP's question of Mainstream or Premium: HAL is more than Mainstream(NCL, Carnival, RCI). It is a cut above Princess. But, struggling to keep even with Celebrity. I cannot address where it stands in comparison with Oceana having no experience with them.

Just my opinion. Edited May 10, 2015 by rkacruiser

[Typhoon1]

Premium twenty years ago. Slowly, HAL has begun the slide toward mainstream.

[rkacruiser]

[quote name='Typhoon1']Premium twenty years ago. Slowly, HAL has begun the slide toward mainstream.[/quote]

If so, why? It is not the marketing message that I see.

There is something systemically not right in Seattle. It's management. And, I hope that is why Mr. Ashford was hired; correct the list of the ship!

[Aquahound]

I've only cruised HAL twice...the first was on Nieuw Amsterdam in Europe and the second on Zuiderdam in Alaska. Nothing about HAL strikes me as "premium."

I know "premium" has a certain definition and if memory serves me right, it includes enrichment seminars. I saw no such thing on either of my HAL cruises.

Besides, I find it very difficult to consider the only mainstream line who still allows balcony smoking as a premium line. Edited May 11, 2015 by Aquahound

[SoCal Cruiser78]

[quote name='Typhoon1']Premium twenty years ago. Slowly, HAL has begun the slide toward mainstream.[/QUOTE]

I agree, unfortunately. I find it most noticeable in the MDR; staffing cuts in the waitstaff have left those who remain appearing rushed during dinner, and the service reflects that. Ship maintenance appears to have slipped as well.

I now put HAL on a par with Princess; I feel they are no longer a cut above :(.

[Iwant2BatC]

IMO corporate mentality has changed in all industries. No longer do corporations try to please the consumer or customer. The name of the game is to make the most money for the least amount of product or service. Do you see any of the airlines giving customers more now that gas prices are down? Nope, they are squeezing us in like cattle and still charging for all the extras. Same with cruise lines. For the last 10 years I have cruised 3 or 4 times s year with Holland America. This year none! Eventually all these little things begin to erode one's feeling of loyalty and certainly one's enthusiasm for a company. Senior staff often act like passengers are an irritant rather than the reason they have a job. I am not saying I will never cruise them again but I have lost the great sense of loyalty I once had.

[Bill B]

[quote name='Iwant2BatC']IMO corporate mentality has changed in all industries. No longer do corporations try to please the consumer or customer. The name of the game is to make the most money for the least amount of product or service. Do you see any of the airlines giving customers more now that gas prices are down? Nope, they are squeezing us in like cattle and still charging for all the extras. Same with cruise lines. For the last 10 years I have cruised 3 or 4 times s year with Holland America. This year none! Eventually all these little things begin to erode one's feeling of loyalty and certainly one's enthusiasm for a company. Senior staff often act like passengers are an irritant rather than the reason they have a job. I am not saying I will never cruise them again but I have lost the great sense of loyalty I once had.[/QUOTE]

Perfectly put.

[Cruzaholic41]

HAL's days as a premium cruise line ended in 1988 when they were purchased by Carnival - a company whose model is quantity over quality.

[Hlitner]

[quote name='Cruzaholic41']HAL's days as a premium cruise line ended in 1988 when they were purchased by Carnival - a company whose model is quantity over quality.[/QUOTE]

In interests of full disclosure one could also speculate that the purchase by CCL of HAL is what saved HAL. Although quality might have been better prior to the acquisition, the bottom line was thought to not be healthy enough guarantee the future of HAL. CCL was able to infuse large amounts of capital into the HAL brand and finance new ships.

Hank

[frankc98376]

Nobody likes seeing cutbacks in product or service. IMHO as long as we see 7 night cruises advertised at $299 or $399 there will need to be cutbacks.

For many years I had a Personal Shopper at Macy's. There is a reason Walmart or Target has no Personal Shoppers- bottom line.

I looked back at my records and we paid $899 per person on HAL for a seven night Alaska cruise in 1984 in an outside cabin with portholes. Put in today's dollars would be around $2000 per person. That is a far cry from $399. I'm sure if fares were that high now we'd see most of the "old" refinements return.

Crystal has all of them and I've never seen a $299 seven night cruise. Edited May 11, 2015 by frankc98376

[sammiedawg]

HAL has really declined in the last six to eight years. It has always been mainstream but it used to be one of the nicest mainstream lines, nicer than Princess. Corporate Carnival seems to have devalued HAL, especially in the ship maintenance department, service levels and food quality. Celebrity has moved to the top of mass market with their Soltice ships. Princess service levels are now much better than HAL. Princess food is now a little better.
I consider HAL to be a value mass market line, it is an inexpensive cruise line to see the world. I have a price in mind to pay for it. I deviated one time from my value pricing to try the Prinsendam and was very disappointed in the ship. Food and service levels were standard for the fleet, no better.

[I_r_a]

I'm getting old.

When I first cruised on Cunard and on HAL they were both Premium.

Ira

[Granny DI]

[quote name='eandj']I see Oceania and Azamara as "Premium". Then comes the luxury lines like SilverSea and Regent.

[U]All [/U]the rest from NCL to HAL and everything in between are "mainstream". HAL doesn't do anything that Celebrity doesn't. And the fact that X has all the new S class ships with interesting categories of rooms and services puts it above the traditional HAL for many people.
Others like the older smaller ships of HAL. Just a matter of taste. And for many frequent travelers, the matter of itinerary choices becomes real important when comparing different ships.[/QUOTE]



I would not consider Cunard or Azamara as premium lines. We've sailed both and the only premium thing about either one is the price.

[Bedruthen]

[quote name='sun~']I know this may ruffles few feathers, but I consider HAL the lower end of the mainstream cruise lines. The ships are plain jane, no bells and whistles. And for those of us who have been on a few other cruise lines, the over all service is nothing special.[/QUOTE]

This.
We cruise according to itinerary, so experience a range of cruise lines and agree that service on board is nothing special. Would always choose Celebrity or Cunard over HAL

[wildflower71]

[quote name='jaguarstyper']It's definitely a mainstream cruise line, in my opinion. However, I would categorize it as somewhat of a boutique mainstream line. Smaller ships than most mainstream competitors, arguably nicer accommodations, slightly better service and an air of elegance not found on most others. Kind of along the lines of Starwood's "W" brand or Marriott's "Renaissance" and "AC" brands.[/QUOTE]

My thoughts exactly

[iancal]

We see HAL as a mainstream line that is not aging well due an older fleet and to maintenance issues.

Older ships, different layouts, different decors. It depends on your personal tastes.

Service, food, entertainment, etc variable and inconsistent-similar to most other mainstream/mass market lines.

HAL is in desperate need of a shot in the arm if it is going to be successful in attracting new customers. Lots of good competitors out there. Edited June 4, 2015 by iancal