Herded around like cattle

[MichaelCMTX]

a Seabourn cruise for Christmas & the new Year.

 

This year we have done the same. Greeted by name as we went in for breakfast on the first morning, dining when ever you want and with whoever you choose, everything all found onboard and I do mean everything. Champagne (not fizzy wine) and caviar included! No fighting for sun loungers, drinks brought to you when you wanted. Truly living the dream.

 

This Christmas we looked around and would you believe it Seabourn was actually cheaper then Royal Caribbean when we priced up a suite. The standard cabin on Seabourn Sojourn is somewhere between a Junior and a Grand Suite.

 

It's not lost on us the closeness in prices between the luxury lines and what we're looking at for a GS. Problem usually is we still need to get to and back from the port they sail from, and we really can't yet be away from work for more than 7 days. The opportunities just aren't right, but it doesn't keep me from thinking about it.

[monkeyinhat]

I get some of what the OP is saying. However, the herding feeling is what I get at Disney World. that is a whole different vacation.

 

We have been cruising a relatively short time since 2005 but are definitely hooked. I have seen changes since we first started cruising. I understand they have to change to get the mass marketing and affordable cruising to a whole new clientele than what cruising a few years ago was.

 

I do get that rushed off the ship feeling on departure day and I HATE IT. But know there are the ones that show up at 10 or 11 just dying to get on board rushing me off. Lots of work for staff to do.

 

The check in..ugh...go to this line ...get x rayed...go to that line...do you have your papers....go to that line....take your picture no? why not?...buy this, buy that. I am exhausted

 

The claiming luggage or carrying off yourself and the your vacation has ended feeling you get at 8 am is deflating

 

I despise the Windjammer. Hate rude people hogging tables cutting in line etc. Others love it. I get it. I do like having choices. Pizza and sandwich shops for snacks.

 

ANNOUNCEMENT!!! bingo, spa, art auction....shut up.

 

Movies on the deck. I think are cool. like the old drive in days. others I am sure cringe at this.

 

I personally don.t need or care for characters, Merry go rounds etc. but may enjoy them when the grandbabies come along

 

We are in the minority I am sure that cruise to relax. I want to go where cell phones and internet is a hassle and expense so work cant get me.

We love huge aft balconies. park ourselves enjoy the wake and read. If I want to get off in port fine if not fine. Do a few comedy shows, little casino , don't care for parades belly flops etc. Personally don't like singing waiters at dinner prefer quiet relaxing meal. I am ok with a fixed time. I like the waiters knowing my name and preferences. Have made great lifelong friends with dinner companions.

 

I will never do the Mega ships. I am sure I would love the luxury lines but cant afford them. Thank goodness we can get some of the small line feel still with smaller Royal ships. The prices are very good. We couldn't go to Myrtle Beach for a week anytime for what we pay for a week on a cruise I enjoy the loyalty perks received on Royal and X. Free stuff is nice

 

We considered a Viking cruise. Even went to a information night. I would do it for the sights, hubs didn't like the limited food choices.

 

I know what to expect on a cruise and the good still outweighs the aggravating for me. I am so looking forward to some jerk knocking into me at the windjammer in 15 days and will be ok being rushed out of bed and off the ship at 8 am 7 days later because it was better than a lot of other land vacations I have had.

 

As they say "Whatever floats your boat"

[xpcdoojk]

I think that sounds about right. For most of the year Royal is going to be quite a bit cheaper than Seabourne because you are getting so much less. It is no different than the lack of service at a Wal-Mart or a Target versus shopping at a Neiman-Marcus. If you want to really good service, you are going to need to pay for it.

 

Royal now caters to a customer that prefers things like zip lines and flow-riders over customers who just want to lay in a lounger and have drinks brought to them

 

So Seabourne has a Flowrider? Sign me up!

 

Basically, Seabourne provides, really yummy food, no no entertainment and better sheets..

 

Sounds super special... or maybe just makes me feel special because I spent $8000 to spend a week floating around the Caribbean...

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

I think that sounds about right. For most of the year Royal is going to be quite a bit cheaper than Seabourne because you are getting so much less. It is no different than the lack of service at a Wal-Mart or a Target versus shopping at a Neiman-Marcus. If you want to really good service, you are going to need to pay for it.

 

Royal now caters to a customer that prefers things like zip lines and flow-riders over customers who just want to lay in a lounger and have drinks brought to them

 

Gosh, now I am confused, shop regularly at NM and Nordstroms, but because I like the flowrider, I am now shopping at Walmart. For those, without a clue, the flowrider is a multi million dollar toy that the blue hairs on Seabourne don't use. I am approaching blue hair status, but still don't just want to sit on my bottom and have people pretend to be my man-servants. Really, it is the 21st century, and most people don't have man servants and those that do have their own yachts..... just saying you folks are pretty laughable.

 

jc

[Able Seaman H]

I am approaching blue hair status, but still don't just want to sit on my bottom and have people pretend to be my man-servants. Really, it is the 21st century, and most people don't have man servants and those that do have their own yachts..... just saying you folks are pretty laughable.

 

jc

 

I shared your fears before our first cruise on Seabourn. We chose one of the larger ships (Sojourn) and nothing could be further from the truth in terms of what you describe. For one thing Seabourn pay their staff rather well so whilst they do a very good job they do so as your equal rather than as someone from a third world country who has been shoved in a monkey suit and doesn't really understand what's going on.

 

Because of the intimate nature of the ship you actually get to know the staff very well. We spent a lot of time with the entertainment staff (singers & dancers) who really punched above their weight. I had all but written off the entertainment before departure. The reality was we didn't miss a show. Whilst the concert pianist might not be my thing the Frank Sinatra act - young lad not unlike Michael Buble and someone we spent time with in the evenings), the blues / country act, the magician - very unique, and the production shows all hit the spot.

 

At one port I ended up playing beach volleyball with the crew and sharing a few beers whilst we all let off steam by the pool. The cocktail bartender in the pre-dinner lounge had a passion for cars back home in Portugal so there was common ground and so it goes on. Surely patronising your Royal Caribbean cabin steward by bringing back toiletries or some trinket from one of the islands is worse? How many times on here do you hear the phrase, "they really appreciate it", as if back home they are living in mud huts.

 

Henry :)

Edited September 13, 2014 by Able Seaman H

[Starry Eyes]

I shared your fears before our first cruise on Seabourn. We chose one of the larger ships (Sojourn) and nothing could be further from the truth in terms of what you describe. For one thing Seabourn pay their staff rather well so whilst they do a very good job they do so as your equal rather than as someone from a third world country who has been shoved in a monkey suit and doesn't really understand what's going on.

 

Because of the intimate nature of the ship you actually get to know the staff very well. We spent a lot of time with the entertainment staff (singers & dancers) who really punched above their weight. I had all but written off the entertainment before departure. The reality was we didn't miss a show. Whilst the concert pianist might not be my thing the Frank Sinatra act - young lad not unlike Michael Buble and someone we spent time with in the evenings), the blues / country act, the magician - very unique, and the production shows all hit the spot.

 

At one port I ended up playing beach volleyball with the crew and sharing a few beers whilst we all let off steam by the pool. The cocktail bartender in the pre-dinner lounge had a passion for cars back home in Portugal so there was common ground and so it goes on. Surely patronising your Royal Caribbean cabin steward by bringing back toiletries or some trinket from one of the islands is worse? How many times on here do you hear the phrase, "they really appreciate it", as if back home they are living in mud huts.

 

Henry :)

I am glad you found a line that suits you now. Enjoy. please sail with them and enjoy yourself. Still, when I read your posts, I think, that line is not for me, at least not now. Might you politely refrain from comparing others to animals?

[dancinman66]

I shared your fears before our first cruise on Seabourn. We chose one of the larger ships (Sojourn) and nothing could be further from the truth in terms of what you describe. For one thing Seabourn pay their staff rather well so whilst they do a very good job they do so as your equal rather than as someone from a third world country who has been shoved in a monkey suit and doesn't really understand what's going on.

 

 

 

Because of the intimate nature of the ship you actually get to know the staff very well. We spent a lot of time with the entertainment staff (singers & dancers) who really punched above their weight. I had all but written off the entertainment before departure. The reality was we didn't miss a show. Whilst the concert pianist might not be my thing the Frank Sinatra act - young lad not unlike Michael Buble and someone we spent time with in the evenings), the blues / country act, the magician - very unique, and the production shows all hit the spot.

 

 

 

At one port I ended up playing beach volleyball with the crew and sharing a few beers whilst we all let off steam by the pool. The cocktail bartender in the pre-dinner lounge had a passion for cars back home in Portugal so there was common ground and so it goes on. Surely patronising your Royal Caribbean cabin steward by bringing back toiletries or some trinket from one of the islands is worse? How many times on here do you hear the phrase, "they really appreciate it", as if back home they are living in mud huts.

 

 

 

Henry :)

 

 

Thanks for this feedback

Nice to know when I eventually go seabourn

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[B-52]

It's the nature of cruising nowadays...but you can get around it....

Only times I really feel herded is when the show lets out of the Theater,

and the Windjammer....

We are D+, and I will never eat in the WJ...for so many reasons I find repulsive.

The only time I will go in there is if I am one of the first in when they open.

But even then, I am not impressed with what is offered.

 

Herded? The WJ is where the herd is set loose at the feeding trough frenzy...

[Able Seaman H]

I am glad you found a line that suits you now. Enjoy. please sail with them and enjoy yourself. Still, when I read your posts, I think, that line is not for me, at least not now. Might you politely refrain from comparing others to animals?

 

You probably won't have read the whole thread. I have a foot in both camps. A few weeks ago we took a party of 19 onto Adventure of the Seas and in December we re-board Sojourn.

 

My choice of words was entirely based on my own feelings, I'm not suggesting other passengers are lesser mortals. I am questioning how Royal Caribbean views us though.

 

Henry :)

[Able Seaman H]

It's the nature of cruising nowadays...but you can get around it....

Only times I really feel herded is when the show lets out of the Theater,

and the Windjammer....

We are D+, and I will never eat in the WJ...for so many reasons I find repulsive.

The only time I will go in there is if I am one of the first in when they open.

But even then, I am not impressed with what is offered.

 

Herded? The WJ is where the herd is set loose at the feeding trough frenzy...

 

 

I have never eaten an evening meal in the WJ, for us the dining room experience is to large a part of the cruise. The problem is for lunch (and breakfast when you get up at our time of the day) there is no alternative on port days.

 

Henry :)

[Able Seaman H]

Azamara Club.

 

I have kept a casual eye on Azamara since Royal Caribbean bought Pullmantur and created the brand. I was initially quite excited. The strength and buying power of Royal Caribbean behind it, we knew the RC brand, were established in their loyalty programme and thought this could well be the answer. The problem is Royal Caribbean just can’t help themselves, they always revert to form.

 

Carnival have done a much better job with Seabourn, they re-wrote the script rather than trying to re-size it. Sojourn and Odyssey are the same size as Journey and Quest but whilst Seabourn limited it to 450 guests Azamara have turned up the revenue button and squeezed 650 people on board.

 

The standard cabin on Seabourn is around 360sq ft but Azamara stick to the Royal Caribbean 180sq ft offering, they also include inside cabins to beef up revenue. The problem is on a luxury cruise ship your cabin is more than just somewhere to sleep before rushing out and using all the amazing on board facilities. Some people choose to dine in their cabins, you want a big bathroom with a separate bath and shower, his and hers sinks, a walk in wardrobe - all the things that help set the cruise apart from mainstream product.

 

The Azamara argument is that by keeping cabins small and having inside cabins they are able to offer cheap tickets, but we’re back to the problem of a ship geared around it’s lowest revenue group. The whole idea is by paying a bit more people have more space and can be bowled over by what that extra money multiplied by an incredible buying power provides in terms of cruise experience.

 

I don’t think Royal Caribbean has it in them to do luxury six star cruising. They are masters of the 4 star experience but that’s it. The irony is that Seabourn is owned by Carnival and if anything you would have expected Royal Caribbean to be the ones who adapted best not Carnival, but RC are simply too set in their formula.

 

I haven’t been on an Azamara cruise so my views are merely an outsiders take on things but we looked at them before booking Seabourn and obviously chose the latter.

 

Henry :)

[karena1]

We are D+ and have been on many cruises and I can honestly say I have never felt "herded". Yes, sometimes there are long lines, but nothing compared to dealing with TSA at the airports. That is by far the worst thing ever. Even on Oasis and Allure, other than coming out of shows, we never felt crowded.

 

We never have to fight for sun loungers as we get our butts out of bed and get up to the pool early. That way I can get the lounger I want and spend the whole day laying in the sun by the pool. That is what we enjoy, relaxing at the pool or beach.

 

Love MTD and enjoy eating by ourselves for the most part. Normally get the same waitstaff and they always call us by name and we always get good service.

 

We love to cruise and hence why we cruise almost every month. We have found that if we are friendly with the staff they are very friendly right back to us. We cruise everything from Majesty on up as far as size of the ship and have found things of each style/class of ship that we love.

 

Great value for the $$. We don't do suites, but either balconies or OV's depending on the length of the cruise.

 

Very happy with what we get from Royal and the occasional Princess and Celebrity.

[gw2fll]

I get some of what the OP is saying. However, the herding feeling is what I get at Disney World. that is a whole different vacation.

 

We have been cruising a relatively short time since 2005 but are definitely hooked. I have seen changes since we first started cruising. I understand they have to change to get the mass marketing and affordable cruising to a whole new clientele than what cruising a few years ago was.

 

I do get that rushed off the ship feeling on departure day and I HATE IT. But know there are the ones that show up at 10 or 11 just dying to get on board rushing me off. Lots of work for staff to do.

 

The check in..ugh...go to this line ...get x rayed...go to that line...do you have your papers....go to that line....take your picture no? why not?...buy this, buy that. I am exhausted

 

The claiming luggage or carrying off yourself and the your vacation has ended feeling you get at 8 am is deflating

 

I despise the Windjammer. Hate rude people hogging tables cutting in line etc. Others love it. I get it. I do like having choices. Pizza and sandwich shops for snacks.

 

ANNOUNCEMENT!!! bingo, spa, art auction....shut up.

 

Movies on the deck. I think are cool. like the old drive in days. others I am sure cringe at this.

 

I personally don.t need or care for characters, Merry go rounds etc. but may enjoy them when the grandbabies come along

 

We are in the minority I am sure that cruise to relax. I want to go where cell phones and internet is a hassle and expense so work cant get me.

We love huge aft balconies. park ourselves enjoy the wake and read. If I want to get off in port fine if not fine. Do a few comedy shows, little casino , don't care for parades belly flops etc. Personally don't like singing waiters at dinner prefer quiet relaxing meal. I am ok with a fixed time. I like the waiters knowing my name and preferences. Have made great lifelong friends with dinner companions.

 

I will never do the Mega ships. I am sure I would love the luxury lines but cant afford them. Thank goodness we can get some of the small line feel still with smaller Royal ships. The prices are very good. We couldn't go to Myrtle Beach for a week anytime for what we pay for a week on a cruise I enjoy the loyalty perks received on Royal and X. Free stuff is nice

 

We considered a Viking cruise. Even went to a information night. I would do it for the sights, hubs didn't like the limited food choices.

 

I know what to expect on a cruise and the good still outweighs the aggravating for me. I am so looking forward to some jerk knocking into me at the windjammer in 15 days and will be ok being rushed out of bed and off the ship at 8 am 7 days later because it was better than a lot of other land vacations I have had.

 

As they say "Whatever floats your boat"

 

I'm with you - getting away from the cellphones, internet, etc. One of the main reasons we love cruising because we can completely disengage from the "real world".

[Paulette3028]

Ryano - just a quick note to remind you that you can also get the cooked to order fried eggs in the MDR for breakfast.

 

M

 

What I learned on Allure this past summer was you could NOT get cooked to order eggs in the WJ.....WOW my disappointment!

[Paulette3028]

It's the nature of cruising nowadays...but you can get around it....

Only times I really feel herded is when the show lets out of the Theater,

and the Windjammer....

We are D+, and I will never eat in the WJ...for so many reasons I find repulsive.

The only time I will go in there is if I am one of the first in when they open.

But even then, I am not impressed with what is offered.

 

Herded? The WJ is where the herd is set loose at the feeding trough frenzy...

 

I can say there are only a few times that I feel uncomfortably crowded on almost any ship.

 

Yes, getting out of the theater -- but that is the same if you go to the theater at home or a very HOT movie.

 

The first night going into dinner in the MDR.....there should be a better way to navigate it so that there isn't a line waiting to get in (generally the rest of the cruise it is much better). Because we are D's disembarking the ship isn't an issue.

 

I always seem to find a table easily in the WJ, so that isn't a problem. Some of the casual eateries on Allure this past summer were more crowded than the WJ, and fellow cruisers in line, are too often rude rather than simply polite. One advice I could give to fellow cruisers is -- while you are on line, decide what you want....then when it is YOUR TURN -- order it....gee how much faster the line will move....there may not even be a line if everyone did that.

 

It is a given that parades in the Promenade or some activities in the Centrum will be very crowded and difficult to navigate when they complete for a few minutes.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Paulette3028

[Starry Eyes]

You probably won't have read the whole thread. I have a foot in both camps. A few weeks ago we took a party of 19 onto Adventure of the Seas and in December we re-board Sojourn.

 

My choice of words was entirely based on my own feelings, I'm not suggesting other passengers are lesser mortals. I am questioning how Royal Caribbean views us though.

 

Henry :)

 

I read enough to know you were just on AOS with a group. Traveling with 19 might contribute to some humans feeling like part of a "herd." seaborne seems to suit you better now, so enjoy.

[Folk Singer]

Since RCCl has to fill about 20 ships every week, they must keep the prices low. As they add more capacity, it puts even more pressure on prices. We all need to remember that a cruise is a low priced, high value vacation for most people onboard; you are not on a luxury vacation like 30 years ago.

I do feel for many of the suite passengers, who are paying for a more upscale vacation but for most of everyday, share the same overcrowded facilities as all the other passengers.

 

 

They do get other perks that the rest do not and as we travel suites when we can; have never felt that we were wasting money. It is our choice to do this and we still enjoy the total cruise experience.

Edited September 13, 2014 by Folk Singer

[BonTexasNY]

 

or ... 7 or more days on a beautiful ship with meals, cabin service, entertainment, transportation, lovely ports, smiling staff, comfortable bedding, music, drinks, lovely company, leisure time, optional spa and beauty treatments, lounges, room service, tv with choices, places to store/hang up your things, purser's desk for questions/issues (try that on the airlines!:rolleyes:) and many more optional things like shopping, bingo, etc.

 

For my money i'll take what you call cattle herding any day. :d

 

ditto !!

[TEXASMUNK]

The OP makes a good point. But, over the years, we have learned to become cattle WATCHERS!!!!

The I gotta be there first mentality tends to cause the crush of folks. Ever wonder how smoothly things would go if folks actually listened and went down to catch a tender based on their REAL need to get ashore?

My favorite is now self-disembark......the following scenario is my point of view:

"Hey, Mertyle, get up! We gotta drag our bags and get off"

Mertyle: "Harry, I thought we were supposed to relax on our vacation, isn't this still our vacation?"

Harry: " Heck no! Today we get to roll play! We are now Tibetian Shurpas! We get to drag our luggage all over the ship, out the gangway, then get to stand in line with lots of other folks playing Sherpas. It is such a relaxing way to end our cruise, let's get going!!!!"

[Ti2m]

Well, the only thing that comes to mind is that I am paying roughly the same for an international flight as I am for a cabin on my next cruise with RCI - and guess which one will be more enjoyable?

 

I agree with you!

 

Moo .... Timm

[2004corvette]

when we are waiting in lines...fellow cruisers feel free to.....

 

"MOO".......and i will acknowledge you and "MOO" in return.......:):D

[griffy116]

While we aren't D+, we are Diamond and have cruised on RCCL because we really haven't felt like we were herded like cattle. Is it crowded when the theater lets out? Sure. Are the elevators crowded after muster drill? Of course. Other than that, we've never had a problem with being herded on a RCCL ship. Our reasons for choosing a Royal ship are different from the OP because when we first started cruising, we had small children. We now have a Grandson who will be turning 21 and while he has enjoyed our Med cruises because he's into the history, he's just looking forward to he and a friend from college being able to enjoy the ports and activities on their own. We like the idea that they will be joining us for dinner and that we get to hear about their day. It gives us the opportunity to spend time with him, while giving him the freedom to enjoy things he enjoys while we are able to enjoy different activities. We love being able to tempt him to go with us and still be able to afford a vacation that we can all enjoy. It offers something for all of us...differences and choices for everyone.

[venicia]

just off the Allure 3 weeks ago and had fresh cooked eggs several mornings in the WJ, either fried egg or omelet. We really liked Johnny Rockets breakfast!

 

We've been on over 40 cruises, we liked Seabourn, but IMHO too fussy, do not like being hovered over... love RC, really, really love Allure and Oasis and we have been sailing since the Big Red Boat, Sovereign of the Seas and Carnival Fantasy! I even remember a really fun ship called The Dolphin from Port Canaveral I think.

Other ships we sailed: Celebrity, Princess, Regent( not a favorite) NCL

 

Can't wait for Quantum, going in April. We did some river cruises in Europe, like them, did one here in the States, lets just say that will never happen again. That was herding as bad as airlines. :eek: Moondawgie, I feel your pain as far as the airlines go, that is HERDING to the 10th degree.

 

Don't care if the waiter remembers our names, want to eat with each other, no longer want to get dressed up for dinner. As others have mentioned, some go for the good old days, we just go for a nice relaxing time away together.

 

So, my take on this is, isn't it great there is something out there for each one of us?:D

[Paulette3028]

just off the Allure 3 weeks ago and had fresh cooked eggs several mornings in the WJ, either fried egg or omelet. We really liked Johnny Rockets breakfast!

 

Well then something has changed in WJ on Allure. After going to breakfast in WJ on Monday morning, to find NO STATION set up to make fresh omelets or over easy eggs, I was disappointed. Asked and was told that was available only in Johnny Rockets or Wipe Out Café for breakfast. Both places were very nice, Johnny Rockets for breakfast was better IMO. When questioned our waiter at dinner that night, he had the Head Waiter come over to explain. As the Head Waiter said, they get lots of complaints about not being able to have fresh omelets or fried eggs in WJ, but to provide better service all around the ship and to alleviate overcrowding this decision/plan for breakfast service was made.

 

IF they have changed it, after all the complaints they have gotten -- GOOD!!!

[alfaeric]

The standard cabin on Seabourn is around 360sq ft but Azamara stick to the Royal Caribbean 180sq ft offering, they also include inside cabins to beef up revenue.

Henry :)

 

While I see your point, I ask what ANYONE could do about a 180sqft cabin for Azamara?

 

Both of the ships were built in 2000, whereas Azamara became part of the RCCL corporate system in 2007.

 

So I'm not sure how they would be able to magically make the cabins bigger. Or massively change the layout.

 

They stuck with the size because that's what the ships had.

 

Now if we are thinking that RCCL is going to build a new Azamara ship or two, then you have more of a point.