The Business of Cunard: a new President for North America and adjusting course?

[Bigmike911]

In 2015 I will make my 14th and 15th trips on Cunard. 10 have been Trans Atlantics. I have also cruised on other lines and at the end of the voyage, I always say get me back to Cunard. Some of the things I would like to see are the following, some of which might be pie in the sky.

 

A sister ship to Queen Mary 2 (perhaps Queen Ann) An ocean liner. Alternating with QM2 on Trans-Atlantics most of the time. I have missed the ability to go east bound, and then return shortly there after with a west bound. Now it seems you are stuck for a week or ten days on either side before you can return. Seven day crossings are terrific.

 

I actually like the opportunity to break the travel with a few days in the UK or Europe or the US, so ships on a schedule where One would have a few days a shore would be lovely. Maybe one departing on Saturday, and the other on Wednesday doing seven day turns.

 

I like the formality of Cunard, I like dressing for dinner and formal nights. I love the White Star Service, The Grills, etc.

 

I think moving a few of the Vista Class ships to Cunard and infusing them with White Star service would be terrific. These could do the non T/A cruises in North America and Europe, and timed with the T/As could offer great opportunities. More Cunard White Star ships would be terrific.

 

Don't reduce the service, but price it where you don't have to do heavy discounting, which benefits neither the line nor its booked passengers and tends to make everyone unhappy.

 

More single rooms and suites. Or price them so that singles in higher categories are not twice as expensive.

 

Well thats my wish list. I hope the Management of Cunard/Carnival will do the right thing.

 

I am already looking beyond my 15th voyage.

 

Cheers Mike.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Bigmike911

[keithm]

I have been on three crossings with Stephen Payne and we have talked many times. He told me that QM2 had paid for herself in her first 5 years of service.

 

As an add-on, the QE and QV have won me over. IMO, what makes Cunard Cunard is the ambiance and service that goes on inside the ship, not the hull.

Considering the QM2 was the most expensive ship at the time(at over $800million)that really says something.

[photosg]

Thank you japyke for starting this thread.

 

I would like to expand on the suggestions made by Skipper Tim.

 

QM3 (I do like Bigmike911's suggestion of Queen Anne!) should be less than 90,000 tonnes with less than 2,000 passengers. She should also have a space ratio no less than QM2. She should also have the lines and ocean going characteristics of a liner. When the QM2 was designed it was calculated that she would have to be that size to be cost effective. I wonder since it is claimed she made her money back in 5 years, a smaller ship could be designed which could make her money back say in 7 to 10 years?

 

Staying with the existing QM2, why don't they market a once a year "Blue Riband" cruise where she will try to get across the Atlantic (and back) in record time? (For practical reasons she might then have to dock somewhere outside of New York overnight. This will also allow her some catch up time for her next voyage in case weather or other unforeseen conditions cause her to slow down.) If they only had this crossing once a year I am sure they would have no problem selling it at whatever price they need to.

 

As to itineraries I would also suggest year round world cruising. or at least 2 consecutive round the world cruises per year. This is so that the "well-heeled" customers from other parts of the world may also do a full circumnavigation without having to fly to Southampton (or New York.) Instead of a 4th world cruise the 3rd could run from April - October with a more port intensive itinerary that more or less takes in every single port Cunard stops at so passengers could stitch together 4 - 8 week itineraries with only a few repeated ports. Again a smaller ship would be able to dock at more interesting ports or in the centre of cities.

 

Alternatively, what about an old school liner type itinerary that is not so much about touring exotic ports than getting to them without the discomfort of flying? i think it would be viable if the per-person cost was less than the business class airfare between the two cities.

 

Is there a reason why Cunard do not do a transpacific like Tokyo - Vancouver the way Silversea and Crystal (and others) do? Can you get away with less hull-strengthening, lower freeboard and the like on a ship designed for transpacific crossings than on a transatlantic one?

 

I would have to say that another valued aspect to the Cunard brand is the British "theme" of Cunard. It's a theme that is more consistently applied on Cunard than the more "genuinely" british P&O. (i.e. P&O IS British while Cunard is British "themed") I would also argue that the Cunard brand delivers a "British" experience more than it does a "luxury" experience. (although in comparison to both P&O and Princess, IMHO Cunard comes out slightly ahead in "luxury.") Apart from UK and US offices, I think there is already an Australian office (?) and I was told by the future cruise sales person onboard QE that an Asian office will be opening soon. While I detect that some cruisecritic members may not appreciate more non-UK/US passengers onboard Cunard there is no denying the appeal of a "British" themed cruise ship to the growing Asian market.

 

For Airlines having boasting rights to luxurious business and first-class cabins adds to the perceived value to their economy class too. Would you say having Grills on board a Cunard ship adds to the luxury factor of the Britannia experience? I would.

[Salacia]

If we can believe the powers that be, it would seem to be doing just that. In their article in Travel Weekly celebrating QM2's tenth anniversary, Rebecca Tobin and Donna Tunney quote Micky Anson as saying that QM2 has been "very profitable" for Carnival. To which the recently departed Peter Shanks added, "She's the best-performing Cunard ship by a mile, and she's always done well on the transatlantic," noting that sales of QM2's crossings tend to remain strong "even when the economy's tougher and airfares are higher." http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Queen-Mary-2---A-decade-at-sea/

 

Thaxed, call me an agnostic because I can't believe the powers that be in that press release, or quotes from those who provide speaking points to trade publications without facts to support their claims. Not that they are fabricating [althought I do suspect they are], but rather that what those of us who follow what is happening with transatlantic fares have a different take on the situation. -S.

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

...To which the recently departed Peter Shanks [/color][/url]

 

Thaxted, I just noticed this... Peter Shanks has recently departed?

[pmb1]

...

Staying with the existing QM2, why don't they market a once a year "Blue Riband" cruise where she will try to get across the Atlantic (and back) in record time? ...

Given QM2's top speed of ~30kts a record crossing is an impossibility. (google SS United States) However, given her greater stability than QE2, she just might beat QE2's best crossing even though QE2 was three knots faster straight line. Fuel prices would have to fall lots more than they have for Cunard to even consider it. I'll bet Stephen Payne would be in favor.

 

...

As to itineraries I would also suggest year round world cruising. or at least 2 consecutive round the world cruises per year. This is so that the "well-heeled" customers from other parts of the world may also do a full circumnavigation without having to fly to Southampton (or New York.)

As an only NYC-NYC roundtrip QM2 cruiser I think that full circumnavigations (westbound) are a great idea. And once the widened Panama Canal is available, they might be able to charge a premium fare for the extreme-low-tide-squeak-under-the-Bridge-of-the-Americas experience. Approval by the Canal Authority and QM2's insurers is something else again.

[Salacia]

Given QM2's top speed of ~30kts a record crossing is an impossibility. (google SS United States) However, given her greater stability than QE2, she just might beat QE2's best crossing even though QE2 was three knots faster straight line. Fuel prices would have to fall lots more than they have for Cunard to even consider it. I'll bet Stephen Payne would be in favor.

 

As an only NYC-NYC roundtrip QM2 cruiser I think that full circumnavigations (westbound) are a great idea. And once the widened Panama Canal is available, they might be able to charge a premium fare for the extreme-low-tide-squeak-under-the-Bridge-of-the-Americas experience. Approval by the Canal Authority and QM2's insurers is something else again.

 

Pmb, the recently published itinerary for the 2016 World Cruise did not include QM2 passage through the Panama canal. As to what will happen in 2017, my breath I will not be holding :) -S.

[photosg]

Given QM2's top speed of ~30kts a record crossing is an impossibility. (google SS United States) However, given her greater stability than QE2, she just might beat QE2's best crossing even though QE2 was three knots faster straight line. Fuel prices would have to fall lots more than they have for Cunard to even consider it. I'll bet Stephen Payne would be in favor.

 

oh! i wasn't suggesting that the QM2 try to beat the United States or even the original Mary (could she? fastest Cunard crossing ever still would have some marketing and news value.) but she can attempt the fastest crossing for the current year. or just faster than she does normally, trying to beat her own best time.

 

... and just in time for this discussion, oil prices are dropping! (how much more would Cunard have to charge for a top speed crossing to make up for the extra fuel burn?)

 

P.S. Having said all that, we might want to add another specification for the QM3 / Queen Anne: be able to cross the Atlantic faster than the SS United States.

Edited November 30, 2014 by photosg

[Skipper Tim]

P.S. Having said all that, we might want to add another specification for the QM3 / Queen Anne: be able to cross the Atlantic faster than the SS United States.

 

Yes! There is a market there. We all work on the move now. 5 days crossing the Atlantic with colleagues and prospective business partners may be far better than a stationery conference/meeting. Why be wiped out with lack of sleep from a flight, face expensive hotel and taxi bills when it can all be done aboard, in luxury, in the same time for less cost?

[balf]

 

... and just in time for this discussion, oil prices are dropping! (how much more would Cunard have to charge for a top speed crossing to make up for the extra fuel burn?)

 

P.S. Having said all that, we might want to add another specification for the QM3 / Queen Anne: be able to cross the Atlantic faster than the SS United States.

 

Are we not supposed to be burning less fuel to save the world?

 

And I wouldn't imagine a liner doing 50 knots would be an experience many would try twice.

 

David

[Underwatr]

Pmb, the recently published itinerary for the 2016 World Cruise did not include QM2 passage through the Panama canal. As to what will happen in 2017, my breath I will not be holding :) -S.

She doesn't quite fit under the Bridge of the Americas in most tidal conditions.

[travelberlin]

As some one who travels very often between the Americas and Europe, and who does not like long flights, I would be very happy if there were another scheduled transatlantic starting in Miami to Europe. I think this could atract more South Americans and Florida residents, and have a good demand. I do not think that the number of sailing days should be reduced, since many of the passengers do not necessarily have time limitations. An alternativ to the plane for me would be a good transatlantic ship, whose price for a solo pasenger is not higher than a business class ticket from the Americas to Europe.

[Thaxted]

PARTIAL QUOTE

 

Thaxted, I just noticed this... Peter Shanks has recently departed?

 

Departed Cunard, not this life, Salacia. I should have chosen my words more carefully!

[Salacia]

Departed Cunard, not this life, Salacia. I should have chosen my words more carefully!

 

Glad to hear he's still with us, albeit without Cunard:).

[Skipper Tim]

As to itineraries I would also suggest year round world cruising. or at least 2 consecutive round the world cruises per year. This is so that the "well-heeled" customers from other parts of the world may also do a full circumnavigation without having to fly to Southampton (or New York.)

 

An exellent idea. This is how MSC operate most of their cruises - completely circular with guests of different nationalities arriving and leaving at every port. Making this model global and continious would make a lot of sense.

 

Instead of a 4th world cruise the 3rd could run from April - October with a more port intensive itinerary that more or less takes in every single port Cunard stops at so passengers could stitch together 4 - 8 week itineraries with only a few repeated ports. Again a smaller ship would be able to dock at more interesting ports or in the centre of cities

 

Well the way to save fuel, maximise economies of scale and still get into the smaller ports is to have shorter and fatter ships with extra height that move slowly! Hardly the image of a graceful oceanliner. Length, not size is the restriction on ports, fuel is consumed roughly in propertion to the cube of speed (twice as fast = 8 times more fuel!), and volume above the waterline determines the guest capacity and hence economies of scale.

 

Perhaps Cunard could start a B-brand still with 'White Star service'. How about 'White Star' :). That would be a full turnaround.

 

Alternatively, what about an old school liner type itinerary that is not so much about touring exotic ports than getting to them without the discomfort of flying? i think it would be viable if the per-person cost was less than the business class airfare between the two cities.

 

Agreed. But please let it join Avos too!

 

I would have to say that another valued aspect to the Cunard brand is the British "theme" of Cunard. It's a theme that is more consistently applied on Cunard than the more "genuinely" british P&O. (i.e. P&O IS British while Cunard is British "themed") I would also argue that the Cunard brand delivers a "British" experience more than it does a "luxury" experience. (although in comparison to both P&O and Princess, IMHO Cunard comes out slightly ahead in "luxury.") Apart from UK and US offices, I think there is already an Australian office (?) and I was told by the future cruise sales person onboard QE that an Asian office will be opening soon. While I detect that some cruisecritic members may not appreciate more non-UK/US passengers onboard Cunard there is no denying the appeal of a "British" themed cruise ship to the growing Asian market.

 

Yes. No British line woud descend to offering a pub with fish & chips. They might as well offer a working man's club, sextist entertainment and football hooliganism. It is a fantasy British theme designed for North Americans. However, as you say, the 'British appeal' is on the ascendency to the economically ascendant and vastly populous Chinese.

 

For Airlines having boasting rights to luxurious business and first-class cabins adds to the perceived value to their economy class too. Would you say having Grills on board a Cunard ship adds to the luxury factor of the Britannia experience? I would.

 

The first class 'suites' on the new Middle-Eastern airliners are used mercilessly for promotion. They suites are frankly bonkers, with a seperate bed, sitting area with dining table and private bathroom - on a plane! They can only have been designed for marketing purposes. The ship-within-a-ship concept has proven its business merit. Some people will always pay the top rate, no matter how much it is. To cater for these variable few while still having the economies of scale to run the ship makes a lot of sense. Even without the extra luxury, many people are happy to pay more just not to be with people who have paid less.

 

So, perhaps we (fantasy cruise line managers) can ressurrect the historic "White Star" brand which were always slower than Cunard but had their better service standards, for a small (initially) fleet of short, fat, tall and slow cruise liners on permanent, port-intensive Word Cruises allowing a multitude of fascinating itineraries to people the World over?

 

I still would like to see a sister ship to QM2 with both on permanent scheduled transantlic duty. Yes extend the reach to Florida, and to France , Germany and Ireland. Much like public transport, once the frequency or regularity drops below convenient levels, the centre of gravity of the market shifts elsewhere. A regular, permanent service would attract a much larger market.

Edited December 1, 2014 by Skipper Tim

[Skipper Tim]

Oh, and buy back the QE2! Make her the Cunard Museum and floating hotel. She would have to be based in one of her regular ports of call with local funding so as not to smack of, as the Queen Mary now does, blatent commercialism.

 

Cunard never ever should have let her go.

[Austcruiser84]

Oh, and buy back the QE2! Make her the Cunard Museum and floating hotel. She would have to be based in one of her regular ports of call with local funding so as not to smack of, as the Queen Mary now does, blatent commercialism.

 

Cunard never ever should have let her go.

 

Cunard's books were bleeding red ink. They had to sell Queen Mary.

[DDBINK1]

She doesn't quite fit under the Bridge of the Americas in most tidal conditions.

 

I think I read somewhere that the suspension bridges are capable of being cinched up a bit by the cables making room underneath for taller ships.

 

Would this apply to the Bridge of the Americas ??

Is it a suspension bridge??

anyone know?

 

This would make the idea of a itinary from South Hamp. to say LA a great trip on QM2.

[Underwatr]

I think I read somewhere that the suspension bridges are capable of being cinched up a bit by the cables making room underneath for taller ships.

I can't imagine how.

[pmb1]

I think I read somewhere that the suspension bridges are capable of being cinched up a bit by the cables making room underneath for taller ships.

 

Would this apply to the Bridge of the Americas ??

Is it a suspension bridge??

anyone know?

 

This would make the idea of a itinary from South Hamp. to say LA a great trip on QM2.

The Bridge of the Americas is a steel arch bridge, same as the Bayonne Bridge between Bayonne, NJ, and Staten Island, NYC. The roadbed of the Bayonne Bridge is being raised as we speak (so to speak) to increase its clearance from ~150 feet to ~215 feet to accommodate the largest container ships. The cost of raising the roadbed is more than $10 million per foot raised. Don't expect anything similar to happen in Panama.

[bob brown]

The Bridge of the Americas is a steel arch bridge, same as the Bayonne Bridge between Bayonne, NJ, and Staten Island, NYC. The roadbed of the Bayonne Bridge is being raised as we speak (so to speak) to increase its clearance from ~150 feet to ~215 feet to accommodate the largest container ships. The cost of raising the roadbed is more than $10 million per foot raised. Don't expect anything similar to happen in Panama.

 

Why not? If they are going to the expense of building a new canal to accommodate primarily larger cargo ships, why not also raise that bridge (or replace it if more economic) to also allow these mega-freighter's to stack containers higher? In the total scale of the expense of the new canal, I would imagine that the bridge expense would be a fraction of it.....

[bob brown]

I would like to see a return of the 'garage' on TA crossings, along with the old program that allowed one to buy a European car, pick it up at the factory (sometimes with a factory tour), and then vacation in Europe in your own new car, before bringing it home with you aboard the QE2. That was a great program that I wish I could have taken advantage of while it lasted.....

 

I've heard it ended due to security issue's, but surely they could perform satisfactory screening for a few cars to prevent problems, if they can carry hundreds of cars on European overnite ferries?

[bob brown]

This is an interesting thread. The OP mentioned that Cunard has only three ships. But isn't Cunard more or less operated under the Princess umbrella, with common offices in the UK and California? Don't they share their central reservations and marketing offices, and don't they draw their officer's and crew from a common source? As well as purchasing and procurement? And probably a lot more on the business level.

 

While marketed separately, I believe that Cunard enjoy's much of the economy of scale of being with Princess, and to a lesser extant, the Carnival corporate ownership.....

[Salacia]

This is an interesting thread. The OP mentioned that Cunard has only three ships. But isn't Cunard more or less operated under the Princess umbrella, with common offices in the UK and California? Don't they share their central reservations and marketing offices, and don't they draw their officer's and crew from a common source? As well as purchasing and procurement? And probably a lot more on the business level.

 

While marketed separately, I believe that Cunard enjoy's much of the economy of scale of being with Princess, and to a lesser extant, the Carnival corporate ownership.....

 

Hi bob brown. Yes, I also had the sense the Cunard 'operated under the Princess umbrella" in the USA. But I'm thinking that because the new President of Cunard Line North America is also President of Seabourn, things may change for the better. Hopefully. Cheers, -S.

[Salacia]

I would like to see a return of the 'garage' on TA crossings, along with the old program that allowed one to buy a European car, pick it up at the factory (sometimes with a factory tour), and then vacation in Europe in your own new car, before bringing it home with you aboard the QE2. That was a great program that I wish I could have taken advantage of while it lasted.....

 

I've heard it ended due to security issue's, but surely they could perform satisfactory screening for a few cars to prevent problems, if they can carry hundreds of cars on European overnite ferries?

 

That's a coincidence, bob, since just tonight at dinner, I was bemoaning the fact that the Staten Island Ferry hasn't carried passenger cars for years. At least I had the chance to experience a few times before it was discontinued, but how nice it would be if was possible to do again.

 

Those were the days.;)