Bad experience with butler!?

[shanefm3]

That's not a tip it's a bribe IMHO.

 

 

Not a bribe at all. I travel alone, keep a tidy room and have no special requests . I'm appreciative of anyone who makes the bed, vacuums my room etc . In fact, I put the do not disturb sign on most of the time and rarely get turn down service

 

I always have tried to throw a few dollars to anyone in the service industry when I can. I also am painfully aware that I may not have that $50 at the END of the cruise :).

 

So, where's the bribe ?

 

 

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[SissasMomE]

Not a bribe at all. I travel alone, keep a tidy room and have no special requests . I'm appreciative of anyone who makes the bed, vacuums my room etc . In fact, I put the do not disturb sign on most of the time and rarely get turn down service

 

I always have tried to throw a few dollars to anyone in the service industry when I can. I also am painfully aware that I may not have that $50 at the END of the cruise :).

 

So, where's the bribe ?

 

 

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It's not. We do the same as you.

[dexddd]

Wow when I read the title of this thread I thought it was another butler thread of complaining the things I never asked my butler to do for me were never done. I always get a kick out of those complaining about things you never asked them to do as if the butler is a mind reader of some sorts.

But I was WRONG. The OP wrote about some crazy stuff that was way out of line. Even if it was the last cruise for the butler he would still be out of line begging for tips the first day but he could have been tactful about it like "I am honored to serve you on my last official NCL cruise. Let me know if you need anything" Subtle hint. But to keep asking about casino wins and connecting it to his tip is definately a bad butler. I thought NCL states they are trained at some top shelf butler academy. I guess this butler was asleep in class when it comes to tactful communications.

I feel very fortunate to have never experienced anything like this. I know they work alot and maybe overworked. My last cruise we did not use the butler that much but the 2 times I called him for some sort of coffee delivery he was too busy to make the delivery and other staff came for the delivery. No problem with that but it just made me realize how busy they are.

NCL reads these boards so its good for them to read some of this crazy stuff. I would imagine people want to be butlers or asked if they want the job? If you dont want to be a butler then don't be one. I hope NCL does not select who does what. Because it makes no sense for someone who does not take autogratuity tips and only gets personal tips to frown or make faces at customers if they ask for something. That makes no sense. These butler threads are getting crazier and crazier :eek:

 

Are you referring to "Certified Butlers" or similar marketing language used by NCL at one time?

[bear3412]

..... NCL has too many suites and cabins now and not enough service. .....

 

Agreed

[Linda the Book Lover]

Did you know that she is assumed to have received a % of the bill in tips for income tax purposes so she has to report a set amount regardless of getting a tip?

 

I am not posting this to advocate giving a tip for lousy service and I feel people who overtip are doing so for themselves just to feel good

 

Nor do I disagree with what you did

 

Nor do I agree with the tax reporting requirement she has to deal with

 

I am just saying that Uncle Sam has figured out a way to tax all those cash tips that can and sometimes do go unreported

 

It is assumed a waiter/ tress gets a tip for income tax purposes based on a w2 she gets from her employer

 

So if $2000 is earned at the low hourly rate wait staff MUST be paid by law..... They must report an additional % of that using a formula on their return

 

Just sayin and certainly not advocating tipping for bad service but that may have been what she meant

 

Btw. The cop would have just said you could press charges for harassment I would think

 

I never understood why wait staff actually chased down customers who don't tip. They are total strangers that they are chasing down a street and then the discussion/ argument is going to be about.... Cheapness and bad service!!

 

Yep that's a smart thing to do with a stranger who may have had a few drinks.

 

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I never understood why the waitress exhibited inappropriate behavior by chasing us down the street. (BTW - No alcohol was consumed by any of us) My mother was older so perhaps the waitress thought we would be an easy mark. When someone initiates a chase after you and makes you feel threatened that is assault. Based on my mother's fear and the waitress' irrational behavior towards my mother and us I would have pressed charges without hesitation.

 

I still tip and also not tip based on service. NCL offers nice suite perks which include a butler and I hope to have a nice one in March.

[dexddd]

Agreed

 

That is what I've said a few times as well. It also doesn't help when they have to service rooms on both the front and back of the ship. I know someone recently gave a breakdown of how the butlers were assigned on their sailing (basically rooms all in one area), but two recent ones the butler was servicing rooms on the Star on 12 forward and also back on 10. On the BA he was servicing 16 forward and suites on the aft. The butler galley is forward in the Haven area somewhere so when they have to service the rooms in the back they have to cart stuff back there.

[luvtheships]

I never understood why the waitress exhibited inappropriate behavior by chasing us down the street. (BTW - No alcohol was consumed by any of us) My mother was older so perhaps the waitress thought we would be an easy mark. When someone initiates a chase after you and makes you feel threatened that is assault. Based on my mother's fear and the waitress' irrational behavior towards my mother and us I would have pressed charges without hesitation.

 

I still tip and also not tip based on service. NCL offers nice suite perks which include a butler and I hope to have a nice one in March.

 

I would have to agree that she probably though you easy marks and not a threat

 

She was a threat to you actually

 

I have heard so many stories if wait staff chasing down customers it crazy.

 

 

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[DaisyGoldberg]

I really don't understand the rationale of making butlers run the length of the ship to service their suite guests, instead of just dividing staff to do sets of rooms in the same vicinity. The only reason I can come up with is that they can't/won't configure a storage/supply room for them at the rear of the ship so they're going to have to go back and forth anyway for glassware, etc. But that's just unreasonable. I also don't quite understand why they switch them around, unless it's to rotate who gets the very highest level suites for tip purposes. But that could still be done without constant rotation.

 

I'm really shocked at people throwing out salary numbers as if they're remotely equivalent to drawing the same salary for a day's work on land ... and going home to your family at the end of it. Or at the end of the week. Or at the end of the month. Seriously?

 

Yes, I'm sure it's amazing pay for most of the crew based on their other options at home - that's why they give up their family lives for YEARS to be able to provide handsomely for their families.

 

I think the least we can do as passengers is not snark on what a killing they're making, as if it's not coming at a far greater sacrifice than people making that money on land pay.

[SissasMomE]

I really don't understand the rationale of making butlers run the length of the ship to service their suite guests, instead of just dividing staff to do sets of rooms in the same vicinity. The only reason I can come up with is that they can't/won't configure a storage/supply room for them at the rear of the ship so they're going to have to go back and forth anyway for glassware, etc. But that's just unreasonable. I also don't quite understand why they switch them around, unless it's to rotate who gets the very highest level suites for tip purposes. But that could still be done without constant rotation.

 

I'm really shocked at people throwing out salary numbers as if they're remotely equivalent to drawing the same salary for a day's work on land ... and going home to your family at the end of it. Or at the end of the week. Or at the end of the month. Seriously?

 

Yes, I'm sure it's amazing pay for most of the crew based on their other options at home - that's why they give up their family lives for YEARS to be able to provide handsomely for their families.

 

I think the least we can do as passengers is not snark on what a killing they're making, as if it's not coming at a far greater sacrifice than people making that money on land pay.

 

Back in the 70's, my father-in-law went to Iran for a year and earned $100k tax free working in construction with some US project. It was his choice, and he made a crap load of money for the family doing it - and was not home for 1 year. Everyone makes career choices. While I never understood the fascination with how much money any of the crew make, or don't make, it is their career choice.

[SissasMomE]

That is what I've said a few times as well. It also doesn't help when they have to service rooms on both the front and back of the ship. I know someone recently gave a breakdown of how the butlers were assigned on their sailing (basically rooms all in one area), but two recent ones the butler was servicing rooms on the Star on 12 forward and also back on 10. On the BA he was servicing 16 forward and suites on the aft. The butler galley is forward in the Haven area somewhere so when they have to service the rooms in the back they have to cart stuff back there.

 

I know some really enjoy their butlers, but I wish NCL would offer suites without butlers for those who choose that. RCCL has it that way, and I prefer that! As for an assigned butler working both forward and aft cabins, that is just crazy. I do not understand how they are expected to do that.

[Fishbait17]

OP, you a bad butler, plain and simple, and it happens sometimes. It's a shame, and I'm glad you spoke to the HD and took care of it on the ship. It does sound like his contract was not renewed (likely for being unsatisfactory in the first place) and he was on his way home for good. I'm also glad you didn't let it ruin your vacation, but I am sorry for your poor experience.

 

OTOH, I keep reading here about how NCL butlers are not as professional ("glorified waiter"?) as butlers at other resorts, hotels, etc. Perhaps your limited experience with NCL butlers has left a sour taste in your mouth, but this is not my experience, not the experience of many others (and yes, I've had Sandals butlers, Four Seasons butlers, etc). I am almost always offered unpacking services, occasionally offered packing services, and a million things in between, and I know that even if not offered, all I have to do is ask. I have seen people on this board speak of many, many, many things their butler has done for them - pick up their child from the kid's club, bring them lunch and drinks at the main pool, hold seats for them at the theater, run them things from their cabin that they have left behind accidentally, serve drinks and snacks to friends they bring to their cabin, escort them to different places on the ship (dinner, theater, etc), going to the ship shop to pick them up something, carry their purchases back to the cabin, and I could go on and on and on. I do not ask any of these things from my butler as I am perfectly happy doing such things myself, but I do know that if I wished to, all I would do is ask and it would be done. I also recall that a few of the people who requested such things were boasting about their low tips for such services, and calling butlers "minimum wage service workers", but that's another matter altogether.

 

There is some discussion about overworked butlers being responsible for too many suites in distant locations on the ship, and I agree with this. It's ridiculous to expect a butler to service the GV, plus the OS's five floors below and half a ship forward, and several more in between. There is also usually discussion about butlers being more attentive to the highest level suites, and I agree with that as well - it does happen, and I expect it to (paying $20,000 for a suite does buy perhaps a bit more attentive service than someone who paid $3000). But that does not mean that you cannot receive excellent, attentive service in the $3000 suite, only that you maybe have to ask for it.

 

I have no problem with everyone deciding how much to tip - this is exactly how it should be. Tipping is discretionary based upon your requests and services, your own personal factors, and what the service means to you. But it should have NOTHING to do with how much you think the butler earns or deserves to earn from others for his services. Just because you did not ask for such services does not mean that they don't exist nor that others have not received them. Nor does it mean that others' vacations have not been greatly enhanced by their butlers' attention, just because yours wasn't. To repeatedly tell others that NCL butlers are NOT excellent nor worthy of a decent tip because of your limited experience is like telling people that the Four Seasons is a cheesy hotel based on the one time you stayed in the least expensive room and had less than divine service. Sometimes a butler is less than excellent, and occasionally they are downright bad. But you are telling people that it's how they ALL are - not providing any services that others have obviously been offered regularly - just because you haven't asked.. You have every right to tip for the services you requested and received, but you have no right to tell others that their tips are preposterous or they have NOT received services worthy of such a tip.

 

It's like everything else in life - you have to figure out who to believe and what's right for you. If you don't believe that NCL butlers provide such services, nor are they worthy of tipping well, so be it. But don't go around basically calling "Hogwash" about services offered, and telling people that NCL butlers do NOT do things that they obviously do. And most of all, don't try to manage the income of people you know little about. Just tip what you feel is appropriate, and let others do the same.

 

Robin

Edited December 5, 2014 by Fishbait17

[bear3412]

^^^^ What she said. :)

[Beaver1975]

Ditto!!

[Samstress]

Well stated Robin!

[shanefm3]

Yep

 

 

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[Linda the Book Lover]

Nicely stated Robin.

[Bailey & Sophie]

Not sure what math you are referring to. The math is just fine. I was responding to the post that suggested $10 per day pp is a reasonable tip. That means $20 per day 7 day cruise would equal $140 per cabin. 10 cabins equals $1400/week. Which equals roughly $67k per year just in tips. Plus salary. To me, it is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that even stellar butlers deserve a salary of $80-100k. Just plain silly.

 

Again, even the best butlers do little more than serve food, refill stuff in your room and respond to a few basic needs.

 

I am not anti- butler at all. On NCL, so far, I've had a terrible butler, and two okay butlers. I have not experienced a stellar one nor can I even imagine what that would look like given their limited scope/ role.

 

As for what to tip, my opinion is based on tip guidelines for butlers in other settings where they perform a much greater array of services in a much more personalized manner. In those cases, I think the $20 per day is much more warranted.

 

And no one said not to tip based on service. That's sort of my whole point, no? We simply have different opinions on what sort of tip different types of service warrants.

But they don't work an entire FULL year, so this math IS a bit skewed.

[watchdiva]

Totally agree with you Robin. I am appalled at some of the denigrating comments being made about the function and worthiness of butlers on NCL...totally déclassé. Flame retardant suit is now on!

 

 

 

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[cruzsnooze]

Not a bribe at all. I travel alone, keep a tidy room and have no special requests . I'm appreciative of anyone who makes the bed, vacuums my room etc . In fact, I put the do not disturb sign on most of the time and rarely get turn down service

 

I always have tried to throw a few dollars to anyone in the service industry when I can. I also am painfully aware that I may not have that $50 at the END of the cruise :).

 

So, where's the bribe ?

 

 

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In my opinion it is a bribe and not a tip when it is rendered before service is given I also think "throwing" a few dollars to anyone in the service industry sounds arrogant. If you were merely a generous tipper that would be different but that's not how it sounded to me. These are people and sometimes it comes off like they're pets being thrown a bone. Edited December 6, 2014 by cruzsnooze

[conandrob240]

Eh. I think 3 weeks experiencing butler gives me a good sense of the general quality and function. Sounds like the exceptional and the terrible aren't the norm. Which means the norm is a pleasant enough person who delivers room service, re-stocks your room and responds adequately to requests.

 

Any tip I have ever given is based on service rendered or lack thereof. My reference to an annual income was to suggest that the amounts of people tipping butlers $150-200 a week may be a bit out of line with services rendered. If you are receiving services that warrant that sort of tip, I am guessing that isn't typical just like the terrible butler isn't typical. So, I would basically not tell someone to not tip, just like I wouldn't to them to tip $150 a week as a baseline.

 

I'll add that if NCL wants to be well- regarded and respected for its butler a service, it needs to be more consistent than this and other threads reflect

Edited December 6, 2014 by conandrob240

[shanefm3]

In my opinion it is a bribe and not a tip when it is rendered before service is given I also think "throwing" a few dollars to anyone in the service industry sounds arrogant. If you were merely a generous tipper that would be different but that's not how it sounded to me. These are people and sometimes it comes off like they're pets being thrown a bone.

 

 

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion. It is quite a strange one but I obviously touched a nerve with you. Maybe you wait to be served on hand and foot and then feel all warm and fuzzy when you hand them a $2 bill and then expect them to gush all over you. I also tip a valet driver before he parks my car and again after . I tip ushers at a ballpark before they seat me. Wrong again I guess..

 

By your logic , everyone who prepays their tips should also be guilty of bribery or is just the fact that I do it in person that ruffles your feathers . An act of bribery suggests I am trying to influence them. I suggest you read my initial post again . I travel alone and want and ask for nothing . No ice, no demands , nothing.

 

I worked 8 years as a bartender before becoming a firefighter . I was never offended when someone said " throw him a few dollars" . :)

 

 

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[younglegend]

The diversity of opinions, some shocking, on this thread are indicative to the people butlers and anyone working in the service industry has to deal with on a daily basis. I spoke to my butler last month on Breakaway at length and they have a very tough job. They deal with demanding, sometimes unrealistic, rude, racist customers on a regular basis. Some specific examples he gave me:

 

1. Customers consistently opening the door and not saying so much as hello. Just bring what I asked for and don't say anything to me. No conversation.

 

2. Customers thinking that they have an exclusive butler and treating them as such.

 

3. Customers who wanted everything for free and thought their butler should be able to get it for them regardless of policy. e.g. Soda, Speciality Restaurant Meals, Laundry, etc.

 

He also enlightened me that on the Breakaway, one butler covers all of the FWD suites (10!), one covers all of the AFT Suites (12!). I assume butlers on the Haven floors cover a similar amount. The night butler covers (on Breakaway) 40 suites!

 

They wake up at 6 AM and work until 10 PM.

 

They share a bathroom with 3 other people. So if they all have to start work at 6 AM, then someone has to wake up much earlier.

 

They live in what is essentially a closet, where they can touch all of the walls by extending their arms.

 

They deserve every penny they get in tips and probably more to put up with idiots.

[cruzsnooze]

Well you're certainly entitled to your opinion. It is quite a strange one but I obviously touched a nerve with you. Maybe you wait to be served on hand and foot and then feel all warm and fuzzy when you hand them a $2 bill and then expect them to gush all over you. I also tip a valet driver before he parks my car and again after . I tip ushers at a ballpark before they seat me. Wrong again I guess..

 

By your logic , everyone who prepays their tips should also be guilty of bribery or is just the fact that I do it in person that ruffles your feathers . An act of bribery suggests I am trying to influence them. I suggest you read my initial post again . I travel alone and want and ask for nothing . No ice, no demands , nothing.

 

I worked 8 years as a bartender before becoming a firefighter . I was never offended when someone said " throw him a few dollars" . :)

 

 

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Nah, you didn't ruffle any feathers, I'm entitled to my opinion as you already are aware of. You can throw anybody you want a bribe., it's not for service rendered when given beforehand. Your money so spend it anyway you wish.

 

Here's websters definition of a gratuity:

gra·tu·ity noun \grə-ˈtü-ə-tē, -ˈtyü-\

: an amount of money given to a person (such as a waiter or waitress) who has performed a service

Edited December 6, 2014 by cruzsnooze

[cruzsnooze]

 

I worked 8 years as a bartender before becoming a firefighter . I was never offended when someone said " throw him a few dollars" . :)

 

 

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I just this month finished reading a book on a three week Mediterranean cruise about John Leonard Orr the firefighter / fire investigator. Edited December 6, 2014 by cruzsnooze

[lisakoivu]

I wish NCL would offer suites without butlers for those who choose that.

 

This