Uh OH, Pin Credit Card Requested

[CPT Trips]

Then I hear "tapping" a card, I think RFID, not chip. Does it have this RFID symbol? The symbol in the red circle.

 

[banditoo]

Then I hear "tapping" a card, I think RFID, not chip. Does it have this RFID symbol? The symbol in the red circle.

 

In Canada, our cards are chip and pin and tap. You can tap with that symbol up to a certain dollar amount (usually up to $50-$100) and after using tap for a certain number of times, you will also have to enter PIN as an extra security feature.

Edited December 25, 2014 by banditoo

[north29]

I can tell you that at most places that take CC's no pin is necessary chipped or not. However, my chipped cards would not work at unattended gas stations like Le Leclerc(not all are unattended). Even in Hondaribba Spain(nice quite city in the Basque area), Madrid, and Malaga, No pin was ever necessary where we travel last Spring.

I have found out that if they will not take a non chipped card, it is mostly because they do not know how. This usually occurs in non touristy areas. Dang that is where we prefer to travel LOL so we keep a number of euros hidden away.

[thinfool]

Locally, we have zero retailers that have chip reading capacity.

 

Your location doesn't reveal much about where you are in the USA, but in my part of the USA, ALL of the Walmarts and Lowes have chipped card slots in their CC readers.

 

Using my (Citibank) card at Walmart, you cannot remove the chipped card until the transaction is complete.

Edited December 25, 2014 by thinfool

[pinotlover]

Thinfoil;

 

Our local Walmart has installed the chipreaders, but they are not yet functional. One still has to do the swipe there, as elsewhere. They tried to have the tap or paypal/applepay software working before the holidays and that didn't happen here either.

 

Citibank does not yet have a true Chip and Pin, only a Chip and Signature with the availability of getting a PIN. The PIN only works at ATMs mostly, all other places the cards default to signature and won't accept the PIN.

 

It has been explained to me that there exists 3-4 large processing companies that route all the transactions between the retailers and the banks. These companies have not put in the technology to accept true chip and PIN here in the States.

[bmorris53]

For those of us eligible for USAA, they are an excellent source for a chip and pin card.

 

For HydroKitty. Ensure you take at least chip and sign cards to Europe. Many places of business no longer have the magnetic strip swipe card readers. Many have gone all chip and pin, but in the touristy areas, for the next year, they'll still do chip and signature. But, you have to have that chip.

 

Great tip for USAA. I just got mine thanks to your info. We've used chip and sign for the last couple of trips without problems, but having a chip and pin as well is good insurance. (Guess we have both military and wine in common!!!!)

[jpalbny]

Chip and signature worked flawlessly everywhere in Paris this past weekend. That included multiple purchases from unattended kiosks throughout the Metro system, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. Still wondering why we came back so soon but that's another story! :rolleyes:

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Chip and signature worked flawlessly everywhere in Paris this past weekend. That included multiple purchases from unattended kiosks throughout the Metro system, restaurants, grocery stores, etc. Still wondering why we came back so soon but that's another story! :rolleyes:

 

Please explain how "chip and signature" works at an unattended kiosk? (I'm ignorant, I'm Canadian.)

 

Glad you had a good time!

Edited December 31, 2014 by Wendy The Wanderer

[jpalbny]

No ignorance; it does seem counterintuitive. It just works by reading the chip instead of reading the stripe. Put the card in, leave it there, and let the machine read the chip. It usually doesn't bother to ask for a PIN, but completes the transaction, and you're on your way. Somehow it must know that it's a chip card without a PIN.

 

IME the kiosk has asked for a PIN only a very few times out of the many times I've used unattended kiosks. When that happened, I enter the PIN that is theoretically only for ATM use. It seems to work.

 

I found that I consistently needed a PIN when traveling in Iceland - they seem to be obsessive about needing PINs for CCs, even if you are purchasing from a live person. Outside of Iceland, this has almost never happened.

 

Happy New Year!

[Langoustine]

It just works by reading the chip instead of reading the stripe. Put the card in, leave it there, and let the machine read the chip. It usually doesn't bother to ask for a PIN, but completes the transaction, and you're on your way. Somehow it must know that it's a chip card without a PIN. IME the kiosk has asked for a PIN only a very few times out of the many times I've used unattended kiosks. When that happened, I enter the PIN that is theoretically only for ATM use.

 

I had this exact experience last year in Montreal at the Metro kiosks with my US chip and signature cards. I assume the Canadians have figured out that the US is still using obsolete technology...

Edited January 1, 2015 by Langoustine

[Emperor Norton]

Also check how many digits the pin has to be .

 

This also applies to your ATM card...

I almost found out the hardway that ATMs outside the US aren't fond of 10 digit pins.

[nana541]

This also applies to your ATM card...

 

I almost found out the hardway that ATMs outside the US aren't fond of 10 digit pins.

 

 

What company/bank does 10 digit pins???? Mine have always been 4!

 

 

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[Kamloops50]

In Canada our debit cards are 8 to 16 digits pins. The CC are 4 to 16 digits.

 

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[jpalbny]

In Canada our debit cards are 8 to 16 digits pins. The CC are 4 to 16 digits.

 

This also applies to your ATM card...

I almost found out the hard way that ATMs outside the US aren't fond of 10 digit pins.

 

That would keep my account very safe...because I wouldn't be able to remember the PIN to make a withdrawal! :D

Edited January 1, 2015 by jpalbny

[Kamloops50]

Most banks and Credit Unions in Canada now require Chip and Pin debit cards to do transactions in the bank.

[nana541]

That would keep my account very safe...because I wouldn't be able to remember the PIN to make a withdrawal! :D

 

 

This exactly!!! :D

 

 

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[Wendy The Wanderer]

No ignorance; it does seem counterintuitive. It just works by reading the chip instead of reading the stripe. Put the card in, leave it there, and let the machine read the chip. It usually doesn't bother to ask for a PIN, but completes the transaction, and you're on your way. Somehow it must know that it's a chip card without a PIN.

..

 

Well that's strange and kind of creepy. The whole idea of a PIN is to increase security. Yes, we have the "tap" in Canada, for small purchases, but it's discretionary, and as someone said, if you keep using it, you'll be asked for a PIN. But where's the security for pin-only if somebody's stolen your card?

 

In Canada our debit cards are 8 to 16 digits pins. The CC are 4 to 16 digits.

 

Not necessarily. My debit PIN is 4 digits so I can use it in Europe and Asia. Never has it been more than 5.

Edited January 1, 2015 by Wendy The Wanderer

[banditoo]

In Canada our debit cards are 8 to 16 digits pins. The CC are 4 to 16 digits.

 

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My Canadian Debit and Credit card pins are both 4 digit. Readily used and accepted in machines requiring pins anywhere we have traveled in the world.

[Kamloops50]

My Canadian Debit and Credit card pins are both 4 digit. Readily used and accepted in machines requiring pins anywhere we have traveled in the world.

 

If you go to the bank or credit union and want to change your pin. The system won't except a 4 digit pin anymore . I tried at both my banks to change 4 digit about a year ago . The system wouldn't let me do it.

[nana541]

If you go to the bank or credit union and want to change your pin. The system won't except a 4 digit pin anymore . I tried at both my banks to change 4 digit about a year ago . The system wouldn't let me do it.

 

 

That is crazy and a real disservice to their customers!

 

 

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[banditoo]

If you go to the bank or credit union and want to change your pin. The system won't except a 4 digit pin anymore . I tried at both my banks to change 4 digit about a year ago . The system wouldn't let me do it.

Maybe there is a difference between Canadian Banks? I deal with RBC and they are the ones who have told me consistently that I should only have a 4 digit pin if traveling to Europe or other countries as longer pins are not accepted. :confused: My 4 digit pins for CC and Debit cards all work at Canadian banks, ATMs and overseas.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I also bank with RBC--no problem, and I believe I got a new debit card this year sometime. I'm trying to remember the last time I changed my PIN--a couple of years I think. I also changed it so that I could travel to some country, can't remember, maybe Turkey?

[banditoo]

I also bank with RBC--no problem, and I believe I got a new debit card this year sometime. I'm trying to remember the last time I changed my PIN--a couple of years I think. I also changed it so that I could travel to some country, can't remember, maybe Turkey?

Hubby just changed his RBC credit card and debit card pins and they are still 4 digit.

[jpalbny]

Well that's strange and kind of creepy. The whole idea of a PIN is to increase security. Yes, we have the "tap" in Canada, for small purchases, but it's discretionary, and as someone said, if you keep using it, you'll be asked for a PIN. But where's the security for pin-only if somebody's stolen your card?

 

Hi Wendy. You mean chip-only, right?

 

Assuming so, there isn't. Anyone could use it if the card is lost or stolen - so in that way, the chip and sign card is no more secure than a swipe card. I agree, but it's all I can get here at the moment, and as long as it works for me I am happy. We rent cars and take public transportation constantly on vacation, and if I had to wait in a line to pay with cash every time I wanted a Metro ticket I would be crazy.

 

However, the chip and sign card is more secure than the stripe card in one important way - it's very easy to steal the information from the magnetic stripe, and clone a credit card. Someone can put a card skimmer on an unattended gasoline pump (for example) and steal the cc numbers. They can then put that information onto a cloned card and voila - they have a working copy of your credit card, and they can use it, and you don't even know it's been stolen. The bank will catch them pretty fast once the fraudulent transactions start showing up but they can steal and clone new numbers as fast as the old ones stop working.

 

I've read (but don't know this firsthand) that it's "virtually" impossible to clone a chip. Who knows if that's even true, or how much longer it will be true...obviously the technology exists or the chips couldn't be made by the cc issuer in the first place, so it's only a matter of time before someone on the wrong side gets that technology and figures out how to clone them. But until then, chip and sign is theoretically more secure - in this way - than a magnetic stripe card.

 

One last thought just occurred to me... Any European criminal who finds my chip card won't know that it's chip and signature, will they? Wouldn't they assume it's chip and PIN? So would they even bother to try using it? I wonder.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Hi Wendy. You mean chip-only, right?

 

Assuming so, there isn't. Anyone could use it if the card is lost or stolen - so in that way, the chip and sign card is no more secure than a swipe card. I agree, but it's all I can get here at the moment, and as long as it works for me I am happy. We rent cars and take public transportation constantly on vacation, and if I had to wait in a line to pay with cash every time I wanted a Metro ticket I would be crazy.

 

However, the chip and sign card is more secure than the stripe card in one important way - it's very easy to steal the information from the magnetic stripe, and clone a credit card. Someone can put a card skimmer on an unattended gasoline pump (for example) and steal the cc numbers. They can then put that information onto a cloned card and voila - they have a working copy of your credit card, and they can use it, and you don't even know it's been stolen. The bank will catch them pretty fast once the fraudulent transactions start showing up but they can steal and clone new numbers as fast as the old ones stop working.

 

I've read (but don't know this firsthand) that it's "virtually" impossible to clone a chip. Who knows if that's even true, or how much longer it will be true...obviously the technology exists or the chips couldn't be made by the cc issuer in the first place, so it's only a matter of time before someone on the wrong side gets that technology and figures out how to clone them. But until then, chip and sign is theoretically more secure - in this way - than a magnetic stripe card.

 

One last thought just occurred to me... Any European criminal who finds my chip card won't know that it's chip and signature, will they? Wouldn't they assume it's chip and PIN? So would they even bother to try using it? I wonder.

 

Yes, you're right Chris, obviously the chip card is more secure. And as for European criminals, they might know, if they're serious about it--I'm sure they have access to the internet too.

 

What I was talking about previously was the Canadian case--chip & pin, but "tap"-only transactions, no PIN required. I'm still on the fence about this--I've used it a few times, but it feels insecure to me.