Uh OH, Pin Credit Card Requested

[thinfool]

I know it's fashionable to bash big banks these days, but this isn't the banks' fault. They have been pushing this. It's the merchants who refused to buy the new machines. If you want to blame somebody, blame Mom and Pop at the corner deli.

 

Ok...I get the mom and pop thing for new machines. There are, however, thousands upon thousands of chip enabled machines in the US. Walmart, Staples, Lowes, Home Depot, Walgreens, CVS, Winn Dixie all have machines and while some arent yet enabled, they will be when their software is upgraded.

 

What I don't get is why US consumers STILL have to stand on their head to get a chip n pin card?

 

You cannot shift this to mom n pop. It is the ISSUING authority that will or will not make these available.

 

Citibank currently offers chip and pin to commercial accounts, but not to consumers. This is not the fault of mom n pop.

 

Slow as the govt is at times, passports and TWIC cards (likely other govt ID also), are chip configured (my TWIC is chip n pin).

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Ok...I get the mom and pop thing for new machines. There are, however, thousands upon thousands of chip enabled machines in the US. Walmart, Staples, Lowes, Home Depot, Walgreens, CVS, Winn Dixie all have machines and while some arent yet enabled, they will be when their software is upgraded.

...

 

Yeah, well the small merchants protested, especially when the chip and pin migrated from debit cards to credit cards. Restaurants at first had you walk over to the cash to validate your payment, but eventually they got onboard and now universally have those little machines they carry to your table. All the merchants get onboard as they can--supermarket machines couldn't accept taps for a while, now they mostly do. It's a migration process, that's all.

[Host Jazzbeau]

We have met the enemy, and he is us. -- Walt Kelly

 

According to a front-page article in today's Wall Street Journal, the reason for the back-tracking by banks over PINs is resistance from consumers:

"J.P. Morgan Chase, the nation’s biggest card issuer, had initially planned to issue chip-and-PIN credit cards in 2014, but the bank put those plans on hold after testing them with consumers, according to a person familiar with the bank’s strategy."

http://www.wsj.com/articles/why-new-credit-cards-may-fall-short-on-fraud-control-1420423917?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection

[may require subscription]

 

This is not a cost-saving measure, since banks are still expected to issue 575 million Chip cards this year (replacing about half the cards in circulation).

 

"Merchants are also scrambling to install new technology at the cash register to accept the cards, spending billions of dollars on upgrades. A payment-industry group estimates that roughly half of U.S. merchant terminals will be ready to accept the new chip cards by the end of 2015, representing 80% of U.S. purchases" but "many merchants don’t have PIN pads to accommodate the technology."

[Host Jazzbeau]

So what can you do?

 

There are 3 types of credit cards with Chips:

1. Signature only -- this is where most banks are going

2. Signature priority -- will do PIN only if signature isn’t possible -- the card may claim "EMV technology"

3. PIN priority -- will do signature if PIN isn’t capable -- the standard in Europe, but almost impossible to get in the US

 

Type 2 cards are available in the US now -- and these should work anywhere in Europe even if there is a slight hassle going through the priorities. The Barclaycard Arrival Plus MasterCard is an excellent choice for US travelers ($89 fee waived first year).

 

If you absolutely must have a type 3 card, there is apparently only one choice: the United Nations Federal Credit Union (UNFCU). But you can't get one unless you work for the UN. [The Andrews FCU card was type 3 but has been downgraded to type 2.]

[CPT Trips]

I sure hope USAA's chip and pin card is the type 3 that it seemed to be last March. Otherwise, I expect a lot of if there is any hassle for the merchant in Europe.

[CPT Trips]

No WSJ subscription for me, so I did not read the whole article. But comments here - http://muckrack.com/link/oX6E1/why-new-credit-cards-may-fall-short-on-fraud-control - lead me to wonder whether there is more to the story. Are the card issuers using this to keep retailers on the hook for fraudulent use? Are Europeans that much smarter than Americans?

[Host Jazzbeau]

I sure hope USAA's chip and pin card is the type 3 that it seemed to be last March.

 

Maybe you should get your frowner ready:

"Early this year my wife and I received chip and PIN cards from USAA. By separate mail we received the PIN stored in the chip. We tested the cards at Walmart and they did indeed require us to enter the PIN. In August we traveled in England, France, and Spain and all transactions took place without a hitch. It was obvious to us that true chip and PIN was the appropriate technology for European travel.

 

Earlier this month (October, 2014) USAA claimed our account had been “threatened” and they replaced our cards. We received no PIN by separate mail. We promptly took the card to Walmart to test it and discovered it did not ask for a PIN. We contacted USAA twice and both times, when we mentioned Walmart, we were told USAA is not responsible for how the merchant validates the card. No matter what we said, we repeatedly received this same speech, which obviously was a script. Our conclusion was that USAA had abandoned the true chip and PIN card they had been offering, replaced our true chip and PIN on the ruse that the account was threatened, and sleazily avoided admitting to us that what we now had was not what we had applied for. We didn’t close the account but we did cut up the new cards and throw them away."

creditcardforum.com/blog/chip-and-pin-credit-cards-usa/

[CPT Trips]

You mean "Gallic shrug." :p

[deec]

hmmmm....USAA has not re-issued our cards yet......

we will see

[CPT Trips]

So what can you do?

 

There are 3 types of credit cards with Chips:

1. Signature only -- this is where most banks are going

2. Signature priority -- will do PIN only if signature isn’t possible -- the card may claim "EMV technology"

3. PIN priority -- will do signature if PIN isn’t capable -- the standard in Europe, but almost impossible to get in the US

 

Type 2 cards are available in the US now -- and these should work anywhere in Europe even if there is a slight hassle going through the priorities. The Barclaycard Arrival Plus MasterCard is an excellent choice for US travelers ($89 fee waived first year).

 

If you absolutely must have a type 3 card, there is apparently only one choice: the United Nations Federal Credit Union (UNFCU). But you can't get one unless you work for the UN. [The Andrews FCU card was type 3 but has been downgraded to type 2.]

 

This was on the thread on the other board you cited . . . From Jan of 2014

 

The United Nations Federal Credit Union just opened up membership to anyone who joins the United Nations Association ($25 fee). This is the only true Chip and PIN card that has open membership right now. USAA is also true Chip and PIN but has restricted membership.

 

I can't vouch for it, but . . .

[SrTrPro]

I received a "chip" card from AX about 3 months ago. Our local WM has the proper terminal's and for a short time after I received the card, I had to insert the card to read the chip (and leave in until transaction complete). Would not accept the standard "swipe" with the chip card. No pin required - I do not have a pin # for it anyway. Signature depends upon WM's mood at any give moment and amount of charge.

 

Then WM went back to just the "swipe" only - no trouble with the swipe once they had deactivated the chip reader on the terminal.

 

Wife has not yet received an updated chip card (cards on same acct).

 

We will be doing the Cities of Light - Viking beginning on March 26th.

 

As we are "convenience" card users - pay all CC bills in full each month, we plan to use our cards for all but incidental expenses for our trip. We also carry a BA MC as a backup card (no chips for these). Hopefully we will have no issues during our trip - we are staying an extra week in Paris at end of cruise (on our own).

 

Should I contact AX and have them issue a chip card for my wife?

 

Bruce

[jpalbny]

Bruce - it depends on what you will be doing while there. If you're staying in large chain hotels and eating in touristy areas (most of the center city, probably), and doing guided tours, you might not have much of a problem. It's true that AMEX isn't as widely accepted as MC/Visa, but I've found that for some reason, it's more accepted in France than in other European countries. Go figure; we like French Fries, they like American Express...

 

The chip vs the stripe may well be an issue for your MC. There are places that don't take AMEX, and you'd probably have better luck with a chip-enabled MC/Visa for those situations. That said, I have not tried a swipe card overseas in several years; for all I know, some places still take them...

 

One place that comes to mind is the Paris Metro. If you're there for a week on your own you'll probably want to get tickets, and I know that their kiosks don't take AMEX (I was just there a week ago). My BofA chip and signature Visa worked perfectly well in their kiosks, though. You can't count on having a staffed window in every station where you can buy tickets from a person, and only some of the machines take notes, so if you don't have a chip MC/Visa, you'll have to carry a ton of coins...

 

For the way that we travel, chip cards are a necessity, as we use lots of trains, public transport, and buy our tickets from unattended kiosks. Whether you get a second chip AMEX is probably less important; my AX Platinum has a chip and Chris' doesn't; no big deal there. Personally, I'd get a chip MC or Visa as a safer backup. There are a lot of options out there now.

 

Enjoy! We will be back in Paris for a day before our March cruise on the Rhone.

[Host Jazzbeau]

I would get a backup. DW and I had brand new Barclay Arrival Plus cards with Chip and PIN for our recent trip to Spain. My card never worked properly -- turned out the Chip was defective. Luckily hers worked perfectly.

 

Also pay attention to Foreign Transaction Fees. You don't mention which Amex card you have. Platinum has no fees but most others do.

[SrTrPro]

We have rented an apartment for our extra week in Paris - this is on top of the 2 nights we have at the end of the Viking cruise.

 

Not sure what my AX FTF is, my MC is 3% (know that based upon the FTF charged when I made the 25% down payment on our apt rental a few weeks ago).

 

Our AX is Costco Rewards Card - I believe they have a lower FTF. I prefer to use this card as much as possible with the MC as backup.

 

I will contact BA to see about getting a chip card.

 

Bruce

[Hydrokitty]

We have rented an apartment for our extra week in Paris - this is on top of the 2 nights we have at the end of the Viking cruise.

 

Not sure what my AX FTF is, my MC is 3% (know that based upon the FTF charged when I made the 25% down payment on our apt rental a few weeks ago).

 

Our AX is Costco Rewards Card - I believe they have a lower FTF. I prefer to use this card as much as possible with the MC as backup.

 

I will contact BA to see about getting a chip card.

 

Bruce

 

Bruce: since you plan on getting an additional card, look into Capital One, they have a free card and do not charge any FTF. Only thing to be careful of is the merchant who offers to "convert for you", tell them No, thanks! because they will use the highest rate possible so they get paid more.

[SrTrPro]

Only 3 weeks left till we leave on March 25th.

 

Taking to heart all of the good advice offered by the kind people at CC, we now have the following in addition to our AX card (2.7% FTF) and "old" MC (3% FTF):

 

New BofA VISA card - chip and sign - No FTF - this will be our primary card.

 

New Capital One 360 (online bank) ATM / Debit card (MC logo) - no chip, but 4digit pin. This card also has no FTF although MC may (or may not) charge a 1% fee. In addition, there are no "network" ATM machines for the card in the CR, Ger., or FR., so I would be liable for whatever fee is charged by the network the ATM machine is on. We will use this for our cash needs - probably no more than 3 or 4 withdrawals. We will start with $1500 in the acct, but can transfer more if needed even while away.

 

We have never used ATM cards, before, but I will be using it a couple of times before we leave to get comfortable with it. Even though on the same account, my wife's ATM card has a different # on the card then mine and a different pin. If by chance either of the cards were compromised (and CO notified), would the other card still be good to use?

 

Looks like according to one of the posts above, the VISA card my work in the automated kiosks even though no pin associated with this card. This card would also be backup cash card (high interest I know).

 

We will also carry several hundred USD with us.

 

Thanks,

 

Bruce

[JVilleGal]

Wow you have been really reading up on the advice in this thread!! Have a great trip !

[Hydrokitty]

Wow you have been really reading up on the advice in this thread!! Have a great trip !

 

Good for you!! Have a wonderful time! :D

[snookie1]

So I am confused by all this chip and pin talk. Before we went to Europe last fall I called my Capitol One and Bank of America cards to see about getting chip and pin. Both said that technology was not available yet here. They said if a vendor asked for one, just tell them to run it through the old way and sign for it. We had no problems using our signature cards on that trip. This fall we will be spending a week in Paris before our Viking cruise in Southern France. We will most likely be using the metro, and needing a card in restaurants, shops, etc. Did I read correctly that these are still accepted most places? Someone mentioned they have a chip and pin Capitol One card. How did you get that? I am hopelessly technologically naïve, and dread having to figure out how to use a new card before our trip. :confused:

[rjscott]

If they want a pin it's usually a chip as well. Only debit cards can be pin without a chip. Also check how many digits the pin has to be .

 

Not true. I have always had credit cards with pins. Used both VISA and Amex in Europe last year (France and Eastern Europe) without issue. Well, only issue was fewer shops wanted to take the Amex than would take the VISA. Some restaurants wanted me to input a pin on their little POS machines, which I did, and I then also signed the receipt. My pins are 4 digits.

 

Becki

[MinotLight]

I just got a Barclay's Arrival + this week. When I called to activate the card it prompted me to select a 4 digit pin. The recording said if I used the card with pin in Europe with a real person like at a hotel then the pin would be activated to use at self service stations in Europe.

[JVilleGal]

So I am confused by all this chip and pin talk. Before we went to Europe last fall I called my Capitol One and Bank of America cards to see about getting chip and pin. Both said that technology was not available yet here. They said if a vendor asked for one, just tell them to run it through the old way and sign for it. We had no problems using our signature cards on that trip. This fall we will be spending a week in Paris before our Viking cruise in Southern France. We will most likely be using the metro, and needing a card in restaurants, shops, etc. Did I read correctly that these are still accepted most places? Someone mentioned they have a chip and pin Capitol One card. How did you get that? I am hopelessly technologically naïve, and dread having to figure out how to use a new card before our trip. :confused:

 

 

Just make sure when going to restaurant to have enough funds (Euros) to pay in cash if your CC does not work ...

[pinotlover]

The answer is complex and varying. Since getting a true chip and pin card in the US is extremely difficult, I would recommend ensuring that you have at least one chip and sign card. What we have found is that many restaurants and other smaller businesses no longer have magnetic strip readers. They have transitioned to chip readers only. So for "most" of those establishments, you give them your card and tell them no pin. The card will alert the machine to print out a receipt for signature. For most US based chip credit cards, the default is signature, even if you have a pin. The pin typically only works in ATMs.

 

Large hotel chains along with large retail stores still have magnetic strip readers, but these are disappearing. Magnetic strip readers are to risky for the retailers in that they are responsible for any fraudulent transactions.

 

The arrogance of the US Banking system, the intermediate card processor companies, and American retailers is astounding in this matter. Pure arrogance and greed on all three levels of the credit card industry continues to leave the American consumer more vulnerable than anywhere else in the world. We should have been chip and pin at least 5 years ago, but Congress has continued to allow the banks and retailers to screw the American public.

 

My recommendation is to cut up any swipe only card and only use a chip based card, at this time. Let your cc company know what you've done and why.

[jc foster]

After making this original post back in December I have found it extremely difficult to obtain a true chip and pin card that I would trust overseas. The lady at Chase bank did not even seem to know what I was talking about and Wells Fargo was not much help either. However, I have obtained a Chip and Sign card from Amex. Express ,and I guess that will have to do for now. Funny how something so simple can be such as pain.

[banditoo]

Still amazes me that the US of A is still so far behind in this chip and pin technology when we have had in Canada for a number of years now. Surely it will have to change in the US soon. We also have tap technology which is a quick chip reader for lower dollar purchases.