Why I may just have to permanently switch from Royal to X

[beacholdfart]

Personally I think the workers on most ships, especially Celebrity, do an great job and work their butt off. I normally tip more than expected but if a restaurant automatically adds a tip then that's what I pay. I normally pay at least 20% so adding a 15-18% is fine by me. However, on a cruise with these people it is different. I enjoy talking with them and get to know a bit about them and their background. You will find some really touching stories and Mom's and Dad's that go long periods of time without seeing their families. I enjoy seeing their smiling faces (most of them) every day, morning till night, helping me have a WONDERFUL CRUISE EXPERIENCE. For you who pay thousands of dollars to enjoy a vacation but bitch about a couple of extra dollars in tip, sit back and thank GOD you are fortunate enough to do so. There are some that also come in the casino and don't know a lick of how to play then go out screaming and cursing because they lose...go figure. All you cheap, mad at the world people, please stay home!!! I enjoy tipping at the end of the cruise and will do so to those who helped make my week!!! Now, for my next cruise...:) Reflection soon!!!!!

[Big_G]

Just to play the devil's advocate, the cost of living where many of them are from is also much less than it is in the US and many European countries. Beyond that, I'd be curious to know what some of you would consider an acceptable % limit for automatic gratuities. If an increase from 15-18% is acceptable, what if it was raised to 21%? Would that be ok? What about 25%? or 30% or 50%? Is there a point at which you'd say, "whoa, that's enough" or would it all be justified in light of the fact that the servers are paid so little?

 

(Note: Personally, I am not complaining. We ALWAYS tip way more than whatever is required. We get the drink package, so don't get a slip to sign, but carry a stack of $1's and $5's on board with us specifically to use as extra tip money for bartenders and cocktail servers throughout the week, tip cabin staff additional cash as well over and above prepaid grats, and add a significant extra tip to specialty restaurant servers.)

 

 

In the US, I think many are pretty comfortable with 18 percent because they pretty much tip at least that already. I'm sure RCCL already knew that.

 

 

 

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[dmk]

I absolutely agree about how hard the servers work, hours and hours a day, 7 days a week, with a smile. And how they are often from poorer countries and a few cents a drink may not mean much to me, but might mean a lot to them.... But I never understand why Celebrity pays them so little and we are expected to supplement their salary. Why? I am not against tipping but the fact that employers pay so little and it's up to the clientelle to supplement has always left me in wonderment!

[ailetoile]

I've never been in a place that I would consider poor . . . . . .

I have, many of them.

 

My wife was pretty shocked during an excursion on Roatan Isl., I told her that was nothing !!

 

As for tips onboard, we often tip extra in the bars etc and glad to do it.

 

I meant with my own finances. I've been to Roatan and to other poverty-stricken places before. It absolutely puts my own financial struggles in perspective!

[Full90]

We have to keep remembering that Cruise Critic participants are a very small percentage of the cruising population. I heard less than about 8% on any given cruise?? The vast majority that we've come into contact with on cruises are lovely and gracious and most haven't even heard of this forum. I just ignore all the rude ones.

 

 

So true! And may I add that the Censor Police on this forum are....well very sensitive.

[parallax]

I absolutely agree about how hard the servers work, hours and hours a day, 7 days a week, with a smile. And how they are often from poorer countries and a few cents a drink may not mean much to me, but might mean a lot to them.... But I never understand why Celebrity pays them so little and we are expected to supplement their salary. Why? I am not against tipping but the fact that employers pay so little and it's up to the clientelle to supplement has always left me in wonderment!

 

If they raised the salaries of the staff, the increases would be passed onto the customer. Put simply, the fares would go up.

[hypercafe]

I think the crew is underpaid however really dislike the whole tipping, service charge thing. I prefer lines which include tips in the fare. If I feel someone is doing a great job I will tip more, that's when a tip is really a tip.

 

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[NLH Arizona]

I absolutely agree about how hard the servers work, hours and hours a day, 7 days a week, with a smile. And how they are often from poorer countries and a few cents a drink may not mean much to me, but might mean a lot to them.... But I never understand why Celebrity pays them so little and we are expected to supplement their salary. Why? I am not against tipping but the fact that employers pay so little and it's up to the clientelle to supplement has always left me in wonderment!

Look at it this way, we will supplement the pay with the current setup or Celebrity could raise the fares for our cruises and we would pay for it that way. One way or another, we still pay!!! It is like that for all businesses, they factor in the costs of their employees and we pay for it in the price of the goods we buy, etc. Edited February 23, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[suite dreams]

I also stop reading when a particular thread turns into serial rants. I have no problem with the increased gratuities. We normally tip 20 percent on land anyway. I too believe the crew works so very hard on these cruises and deserve whatever extra one can afford. Some cruisers can afford more than others. You do what feels comfortable to you and Hopefully, it all evens out.

 

We always add more on top of our charges (I don't like to carry a lot of small bills on board). If it is a specialty restaurant for which we have prepaid or free drinks during the elite gatherings, we ask for a zero balance check so we can add a gratuity.

 

At the end of the cruise, we use the tip envelopes and are very generous to crew members with whom we have had daily interactions. Also, when during the course of the cruise we notice a crew member cleaning the stairs, or the lounges or somewhere, and that person always has a smile and good morning, afternoon or evening for us, we frequently will put $20 in a tip envelope and hand it to him or her and say thank you.

 

We, of course do not have to do any of these things. But, as others have said, after spending so much on the cruise, these extras really do not impact us that much. But, to the crew member, when you put my tips together with all the other tips it really adds up. And in someone's life, it may make all the difference.

[yorky]

If they raised the salaries of the staff, the increases would be passed onto the customer. Put simply, the fares would go up.

 

Or looking at the profits many of the cruise companies are making, increase staff wages and not put up cruise prices ? I don't actually think gratuities should be upped, the cruise lines are simple expecting cruisers to increase staff wages when it should be their job.

[cruise47]

I'm with you , law girl. It is upsetting to me also, that anyone fortunate enough to be able to enjoy a cruise would be so stingy. Even more upsetting is the rudeness of some passengers to crew members. I just don't get it.

 

Your observation are right own target.

[wallie5446]

I absolutely agree about how hard the servers work, hours and hours a day, 7 days a week, with a smile. And how they are often from poorer countries and a few cents a drink may not mean much to me, but might mean a lot to them.... But I never understand why Celebrity pays them so little and we are expected to supplement their salary. Why? I am not against tipping but the fact that employers pay so little and it's up to the clientelle to supplement has always left me in wonderment!

 

The concept you mention was tried by HAL in the late 1980'ties thru the mid 1990'ties. We sailed on the old Westerdam, no tipping required. Bar service was so-so, and getting a cocktail server by the pool, in the casino or theater was next to impossible. Why? They would get paid weather they served 1 drink or 50, it mattered not, so why bust their tail.:(

 

Our DD has worked 2 contracts on ship for RCCL, they don't work all day. Most have 2 half days. Think back to your last cruise, right beside you getting off at a port are many workers going ashore for the day just as we do.

 

My wife and I met while we were managing restaurants, and no matter what our servers were paid, no tips has always = so-so employees, which = so-so service.

[Adidas4fun]

So if you all feel these people deserve a good income why not do away with tipping and just pay them a decent income included in the ticket cost?

[waterbug123]

Our DD has worked 2 contracts on ship for RCCL, they don't work all day. Most have 2 half days.

 

What position(s) did she work?

[beacholdfart]

I kinda like it the way it is. The slackers get minimum tip and those that put forth the extra service get rewarded with additional tip from those they serve. I have no problem slipping extra money to those that make my vacation one to remember!! (as most cruises are) Cheers!

[attilamom1217]

I agree - the servers work very hard. DH and I are easy to get along with, but I've seen passengers be difficult and/or rude. The servers (as well as the rest of the staff) work hard and earn the tips they receive. If we don't have beverage package, we usually tip an extra dollar per drink especially, if we received wonderful service. Even with the raise of 15% to 18%, I will continue the practice of the extra $1 per drink.

[phoenix_dream]

I believe the crew works hard, and I always am respectful as well as generous with extra tipping. That said, I did not like the increase. I don't like the concept of added on tips, period. If you are going to add on tips of whatever amount it is not really a tip in the true sense, it is a roundabout way of making you pay a part of the staff's salary.

 

Again, I treat the crew with respect - always! I tip generously - always! So please don't lump all of us into the group of those that are truly selfish, entitled, rude, etc., etc., just because we don't agree with the practice or the raise.

 

We could take this argument to the ridiculous level. Would you be ok with a 20% tip? With a 50% tip? With a 100% tip? You would likely need a 300% tip to make their salaries comparable to what would be acceptable in the US. Are you ok with that if your reasoning is that they work hard for the money?? The bottom line is that the argument is really not whether the crew works hard or not. The bottom line is requiring something that in theory, and by definition, should be an individual decision and optional. In the meantime I will continue to tip the now required 18% and add more in many cases. But I still don't agree.

Edited February 23, 2015 by phoenix_dream

[DirtyDawg]

I believe the crew works hard, and I always am respectful as well as generous with extra tipping. That said, I did not like the increase. I don't like the concept of added on tips, period. If you are going to add on tips of whatever amount it is not really a tip in the true sense, it is a roundabout way of making you pay a part of the staff's salary.

 

Again, I treat the crew with respect - always! I tip generously - always! So please don't lump all of us into the group of those that are truly selfish, entitled, rude, etc., etc., just because we don't agree with the practice or the raise.

 

We could take this argument to the ridiculous level. Would you be ok with a 20% tip? With a 50% tip? With a 100% tip? You would likely need a 300% tip to make their salaries comparable to what would be acceptable in the US. Are you ok with that if your reasoning is that they work hard for the money?? The bottom line is that the argument is really not whether the crew works hard or not. The bottom line is requiring something that in theory, and by definition, should be an individual decision and optional. In the meantime I will continue to tip the now required 18% and add more in many cases. But I still don't agree.

 

Well said. We all know that the cruise lines 'gratuity' is not really a gratuity at all. It's more of a 'tax' to supplement the poor wages paid by the cruise lines. Of course if wages increased so would the basic cost of cruise so it's a pay now or pay later type of thing, but I can understand when reasonable people bristle at a forced increase in a supposedly voluntary 'gratuity'. This is especially true for my American friends, didn't you guys fight a war over unfair taxation?;)

[ailetoile]

I believe the crew works hard, and I always am respectful as well as generous with extra tipping. That said, I did not like the increase. I don't like the concept of added on tips, period. If you are going to add on tips of whatever amount it is not really a tip in the true sense, it is a roundabout way of making you pay a part of the staff's salary.

 

Again, I treat the crew with respect - always! I tip generously - always! So please don't lump all of us into the group of those that are truly selfish, entitled, rude, etc., etc., just because we don't agree with the practice or the raise.

 

We could take this argument to the ridiculous level. Would you be ok with a 20% tip? With a 50% tip? With a 100% tip? You would likely need a 300% tip to make their salaries comparable to what would be acceptable in the US. Are you ok with that if your reasoning is that they work hard for the money?? The bottom line is that the argument is really not whether the crew works hard or not. The bottom line is requiring something that in theory, and by definition, should be an individual decision and optional. In the meantime I will continue to tip the now required 18% and add more in many cases. But I still don't agree.

 

I won't say that NO ONE is lumping you with anyone else since I have learned better than to speak for everyone on this very diverse forum, but I think I can say that the vast majority of us aren't. :)

 

I think that the issue that was raised in this thread wasn't necessarily about the gratuities increasing to 18% or about tipping in general. I think the original poster was upset about the attitude that she saw her fellow Cruise Critic members taking towards the people who would be receiving those gratuities -- the mentality of thinking of the people who work on cruise ships as "those people," as though they are a lower class and deserve less consideration than those of us who can afford to cruise for leisure. All financial considerations aside, I agree with that sentiment. The staff and the crew work very hard to give us a nice time, and whether it is with our dollars or simply our civility and our gratitude they absolutely deserve to be treated well.

 

And just to be clear, I'm not saying you or even anyone else who has commented in this thread has made me feel that you would treat the staff and crew as anything less than that! I'm simply pointing out that this was my interpretation of the original poster's original sentiment. :o

[wallie5446]

What position(s) did she work?

 

Meg,

She was on the CD staff and roomed with a cocktail server, who is still with RCCL, and just visited Dallas while on her 2 month coast to coast tour of the US between contracts. After she sent the final pymt home on her 2nd rent property at 34 yrs old.

[lawgirl]

I won't say that NO ONE is lumping you with anyone else since I have learned better than to speak for everyone on this very diverse forum, but I think I can say that the vast majority of us aren't. :)

 

I think that the issue that was raised in this thread wasn't necessarily about the gratuities increasing to 18% or about tipping in general. I think the original poster was upset about the attitude that she saw her fellow Cruise Critic members taking towards the people who would be receiving those gratuities -- the mentality of thinking of the people who work on cruise ships as "those people," as though they are a lower class and deserve less consideration than those of us who can afford to cruise for leisure. All financial considerations aside, I agree with that sentiment. The staff and the crew work very hard to give us a nice time, and whether it is with our dollars or simply our civility and our gratitude they absolutely deserve to be treated well.

 

And just to be clear, I'm not saying you or even anyone else who has commented in this thread has made me feel that you would treat the staff and crew as anything less than that! I'm simply pointing out that this was my interpretation of the original poster's original sentiment. :o

 

Thank you for correctly interpreting my OP. Reasonable minds can disagree, and in fact, I, like others, have seen the cost cutting measures over the last years... I never mind seeing discussions (even fervent ones) about cruise lines cutting costs. Or both good and bad opinions about certain cruises or cruise lines. I, too, miss some of the niceties of cruising. And I get increased prices in light of decreased perks is hard to accept. And I think most posters, in fact, probably tip well and treat crew very well.

 

But I guess it got to me when the discussion moved from talking about big business to discussing the crew. I cannot tell you how many crew members have gone above and beyond on cruises. they work so hard and generally with a smile. Frankly, compared to service overall in the world, most cruise employees simply excel and do so to make cruisers feel special.

 

The thought of calling crew "those people" as though they are less... or saying they are lucky to have a job..... That they should appreciate whatever they get.... Or it is not our duty to pay them. It got to me. It is just dumb luck I got to be born in the US, instead of a third world country. Any of us could be one of "those people."

 

I know I sound all soap boxy. I do my fair share of complaining in life and about cruises at times. And increased costs stink. But it is good to stop and think sometimes. I doubt many of us would trade places with most of the crew.... On the other hand, I suspect most of them would gladly trade with us, even it cost them an extra 25 cents per drink.

[ailetoile]

I know I sound all soap boxy. I do my fair share of complaining in life and about cruises at times. And increased costs stink. But it is good to stop and think sometimes. I doubt many of us would trade places with most of the crew.... On the other hand, I suspect most of them would gladly trade with us, even it cost them an extra 25 cents per drink.

 

Amen. And honestly, I don't know who among us couldn't do with a gratitude check every once in a while. :o I know that personally it helps me to appreciate what I have even more.

[wallie5446]

Now those are 2 very good comments to end the evening with!

 

We would be very happy to attend a Meet n Mingle or Conections party with either of ya'll.

EW

[waterbug123]

Meg,

She was on the CD staff and roomed with a cocktail server, who is still with RCCL, and just visited Dallas while on her 2 month coast to coast tour of the US between contracts. After she sent the final pymt home on her 2nd rent property at 34 yrs old.

 

Oh, got it. As the thread was about tipping, I thought your daughter was employed in a tipped position and I found that curious, as my understanding is that cruise lines almost never hire Americans (was also assuming since you're from TX that your family is American) for those positions.

[LabGuy64]

Well, perhaps it is Royal's obligation to pay those "few pennies" as part of his wage.....the thought is nice....but this is how tips have gone from being a thank you for exceptional service to an obligation. The tip levels get higher and higher...and these days, EVERYONE expects to be tipped just for doing their basic job. I can see 50-100% tips being the norm in the not so near future....and don't like the view...

 

 

Ok.... I just have to vent a little.... There is a thread on the Royal forum cursing the increase of tips for servers from 15% to 18%. I get people don't like increases. No one does. But I pointed out how hard the servers work, hours and hours a day, 7 days a week, with a smile. And how they are often from poorer countries and a few cents a drink may not mean much to me, but might mean a lot to them....

 

I don't mind if people disagree... Reasonable minds can. But the posts on that thread! Folks saying "these people" (referring to the servers) are not our problem and that "these people" should be happy to have jobs given where they are from. I don't know why this is bothering me so..... I am fine with complaints of other passengers, or cabins, or costs or less amenities. But this is really getting to me.... I just think the crew works so hard and would love to be able to be as fortunate as we, who can vacation. it makes me sad and frustrated and I guess it could happen on any cruise line forum but, it is on the Royal thread....ok, I am done now.

Edited February 25, 2015 by LabGuy64