ms Amsterdam GI outbreak World Cruise 2015

[gymswim]

For the past three weeks, some passengers have defied the pleas from the edicL staff and crew and continued to spread two different GI related illnesses by self medicating, not reporting it, or violating quarantine. The crew have been incredible, but they are losing patience with those passengers who selfishly put those of us at risk, who have remained healthy. The Captain announced they may have to consider stricter measures including possibly quarantining the ship or canceling the remained of the World Cruise.

[Boytjie]

Would be interested to know how you know people were self medicating and violating quarantine.

[CruiserBruce]

Would be interested to know how you know people were self medicating and violating quarantine.

 

 

Good question. I would also like to know how a pax knows it is "two different GI related illnesses". After many years in emergency services, I know it takes sophisticated testing to identify a bug, and to say it is two different bugs severely complicates things, perhaps beyond the capability of the ship to determine. I would more likely expect it to be the same bug, that perhaps eased a bit, and then came back.

[gymswim]

The Captain as well as medical staff.

[PathfinderEss]

I hate to hear this, it is such a wonderful cruise. I think it is very selfish of these passengers not to follow the instruction of the Captain and medical staff. Hope they get a handle on it for the sake of the other passengers and crew that seem to be keeping well.

[Iwant2BatC]

Several years ago I was on the vile dam in Asia and came down with an acute intestinal disorder. I immediately reported it to medical but it took them 36 hours to notify housekeeping! In the meantime all my linens went in with the regular laundry. Even though I isolated myself I was so concerned I sent a note to the Captain Cohen things started to happen. People often just don't use their heads. Although I didn't start the epidemic is was horrible. So many crew came down with it. And because the crew share space if one got sick the others had to also be isolated. It went on for weeks and weeks. They were in code red for a very long time. My cruise was mostly ruined and I missed the overland tour. Even when you get through the acute stage it can leave you weak for days. I hope to never go through that again. Ugh

[gymswim]

The crew have been excellent in all respects trying to combat this outbreak. The crew are really tired from dealing with this outbreak. Specialized cabin crew sanitize the infected cabins, including handling the towels and linens. In the past few days, Holland has tried to incentivize sick passengers, by waiving the medical treatment fees as well as offering refunds for any shore excursions. The crew has not been responsible for spreading it, the Captain says they know of instances where sick passengers are deliberately not following the requested protocol. The level of "entitlement " among a few seems to be abnormally high on this particular World Cruise.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I am sorry to hear this.

Sure wish people would follow the rules.

Hope the rest of the cruise doesn't get cancelled because of a few dis-respectful people.

[take us away]

How terrible - do know people on that cruise and now I know why we have had few recent contacts. Was on a HAL cruise where they made these people stay in their cabins and if that was violated, they posted guards! Maybe they should implement something similar. Then there are the 'entitled' who never feel like rules are to be applied to them..... If people are not reporting their illness, everyone is doomed for possible exposure.

[Himself]

I learned years ago: "Others first, self last, God always." Sounds like we have some who put self first, others last. I suspect that a few in that group also have God as never.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

I feel for the crew and the passengers who are behaving on the current World Cruise. We were in a 14 day code red on the Amsterdam a few years ago when the dreaded virus appeared on the Asia Pacific cruise before us and continued on our cruise. The crew work tirelessly to fix the situation and some passengers go merrily on not caring about anyone else. It really must be bad if the Captain has to threaten to cancel the rest of the World Cruise. I hope it can be gotten under control.

[rkacruiser]

Sorry to know that some on the Grand World Cruise feel so "entitled" that the rules don't apply to them. From my experience on the 2008 world cruise, such individuals make this cruise less than truly "grand".

[headhunterke]

When working in the travel industry, you'd be surprised how few people actually behave like complete lunatics and don't even think about other for a split second.

Traveling seems to bring out the worst in a lot of people.

[sail7seas]

I wish Captain would put those he can identify as not following his order off the ship at next port. They know the exposure they present to everyone else and evidently don't care. Why should anyone care about them continuing to cruise?

 

[SilvertoGold]

I wish Captain would put those he can identify as not following his order off the ship at next port. They know the exposure they present to everyone else and evidently don't care. Why should anyone care about them continuing to cruise?

 

 

Lawyers would have a fun time of it if HAL kicked of some pax in such circumstances.

[chengkp75]

Lawyers would have a fun time of it if HAL kicked of some pax in such circumstances.

 

Not really. From the HAL ticket contract:

 

Authority to Deny Transportation, Confine and Remove Passengers: We may determine that for your safety, the safety of the Ship or other means of transportation or the safety or comfort of other passengers or our employees, you should be denied transportation or other services either before or during the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey or Land Trip. In any such circumstance you may be confined to your stateroom, quarantined, restrained or refused participation in any conduct or activities of any nature without liability to us for a refund, payment or compensation whatsoever. By way of example, these would include situations where: (a) you are or become in such condition as to be unfit to travel or dangerous or obnoxious to other passengers or employees; (b) you are inadmissible under the immigration or other laws of any country included in the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey or Land Trip itinerary or fail at any time to possess required travel documents; © you fail to abide by the rules or orders of the Master or other Ship’s officers; or (d) you solicit other passengers or employees for commercial or professional purposes or advertise goods or services on board the Ship without our prior written permission. If transportation is denied after departure, you and your baggage may be landed or transported to any port or location that we select, without any resulting liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit on our part. If you are disembarked or any other actions are taken for any reason pursuant to this paragraph A.6, you will not be entitled to any refunds or damages

 

As with all cruise lines, the Captain can actually remove you for nearly any reason he wishes to. I would think that infecting others with noro would classify as detrimental to "the comfort of other passengers".

[Himself]

Not really. From the HAL ticket contract:

 

Authority to Deny Transportation, Confine and Remove Passengers: We may determine that for your safety, the safety of the Ship or other means of transportation or the safety or comfort of other passengers or our employees, you should be denied transportation or other services either before or during the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey or Land Trip. In any such circumstance you may be confined to your stateroom, quarantined, restrained or refused participation in any conduct or activities of any nature without liability to us for a refund, payment or compensation whatsoever. By way of example, these would include situations where: (a) you are or become in such condition as to be unfit to travel or dangerous or obnoxious to other passengers or employees; (b) you are inadmissible under the immigration or other laws of any country included in the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey or Land Trip itinerary or fail at any time to possess required travel documents; © you fail to abide by the rules or orders of the Master or other Ship’s officers; or (d) you solicit other passengers or employees for commercial or professional purposes or advertise goods or services on board the Ship without our prior written permission. If transportation is denied after departure, you and your baggage may be landed or transported to any port or location that we select, without any resulting liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit on our part. If you are disembarked or any other actions are taken for any reason pursuant to this paragraph A.6, you will not be entitled to any refunds or damages

 

As with all cruise lines, the Captain can actually remove you for nearly any reason he wishes to. I would think that infecting others with noro would classify as detrimental to "the comfort of other passengers".

 

The Captain is law on the ship!

[SilvertoGold]

Not really. From the HAL ticket contract:

 

Authority to Deny Transportation, Confine and Remove Passengers: We may determine that for your safety, the safety of the Ship or other means of transportation or the safety or comfort of other passengers or our employees, you should be denied transportation or other services either before or during the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey or Land Trip. In any such circumstance you may be confined to your stateroom, quarantined, restrained or refused participation in any conduct or activities of any nature without liability to us for a refund, payment or compensation whatsoever. By way of example, these would include situations where: (a) you are or become in such condition as to be unfit to travel or dangerous or obnoxious to other passengers or employees; (b) you are inadmissible under the immigration or other laws of any country included in the Cruise, Land + Sea Journey or Land Trip itinerary or fail at any time to possess required travel documents; © you fail to abide by the rules or orders of the Master or other Ship’s officers; or (d) you solicit other passengers or employees for commercial or professional purposes or advertise goods or services on board the Ship without our prior written permission. If transportation is denied after departure, you and your baggage may be landed or transported to any port or location that we select, without any resulting liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit on our part. If you are disembarked or any other actions are taken for any reason pursuant to this paragraph A.6, you will not be entitled to any refunds or damages

 

As with all cruise lines, the Captain can actually remove you for nearly any reason he wishes to. I would think that infecting others with noro would classify as detrimental to "the comfort of other passengers".

 

Maybe. Would HAL take the chance of such publicity?

 

The reason I am thinking about the fun lawyers would have with this is related to how HAL would be able to prove much legally.

[chengkp75]

Maybe. Would HAL take the chance of such publicity?

 

The reason I am thinking about the fun lawyers would have with this is related to how HAL would be able to prove much legally.

 

HAL would prefer the publicity of protecting passengers over tweets that they did nothing to prevent a noro outbreak.

 

Given the amount of surveillance cameras onboard, proving that someone who went to medical and was placed on quarantine and was then seen outside their cabin is really easy. Statements from cabin stewards and restaurant staff would also be used. All they would need is one sighting of a quarantined passenger outside their cabin.

[SilvertoGold]

HAL would prefer the publicity of protecting passengers over tweets that they did nothing to prevent a noro outbreak.

 

Given the amount of surveillance cameras onboard, proving that someone who went to medical and was placed on quarantine and was then seen outside their cabin is really easy. Statements from cabin stewards and restaurant staff would also be used. All they would need is one sighting of a quarantined passenger outside their cabin.

 

And if not quarantined?

 

So, this would apply only to those who had gone to the medical center. That would help, of course. Lots of pax don't bother to, though.

 

Thanks for your expert info!

[rkacruiser]

If one of the offenders are part of the "entitlement" minority aboard, putting them ashore might help the Amsterdam's management begin to get some control over those who think the cruise revolves around them.

[sail7seas]

And if not quarantined?

 

So, this would apply only to those who had gone to the medical center. That would help, of course. Lots of pax don't bother to, though.

 

Thanks for your expert info!

 

Keep in mind the venue where suit has to be brought against the cruise line. In HAL's case, it likely would be Seattle if not Miami.

 

I don't see it as a hard case to defend. I think Plaintiff has a big burden in such a lawsuit.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2015 by sail7seas

[threeedogmedia]

Good question. I would also like to know how a pax knows it is "two different GI related illnesses". After many years in emergency services, I know it takes sophisticated testing to identify a bug, and to say it is two different bugs severely complicates things, perhaps beyond the capability of the ship to determine. I would more likely expect it to be the same bug, that perhaps eased a bit, and then came back.

 

CruiserBruce, We've been lucky in that we have never been on a ship that had Norovirus. We've primarily cruised Oceania and Regent and they never let you touch any serving utensils and they are always wiping down the rails etc. Other lines don't seem to have the same rules but we've been very lucky.

 

Being as you are in emergency services, is there any particular medication we should have in our kit for a "just in case" outbreak on any of the ships we travel on? We always have Cipro with us and on a land program once, there were a number of people that seemed to catch a 24 hour bug that left them weak but after talking on the phone with our travel doctor, he put us on a preventative course of cipro. If you know of anything more suitable for Norovirus or any other GI virus, we would appreciate knowing if there is anything that protects us?

Thanks for any answer you can provide.

Karen

[chengkp75]

And if not quarantined?

 

So, this would apply only to those who had gone to the medical center. That would help, of course. Lots of pax don't bother to, though.

 

Thanks for your expert info!

 

No, those would be the easy ones. Again, statements from the cabin stewards about possible messes in the cabin (and believe me, I've seen noro where the "losses" were completely uncontrolled as to time and place) could be used. Its pretty obvious when someone has noro, and there is no limitation on quarantine to only noro cases, or any GI illness, just that noro tends to be completely debilitating.

[Iwant2BatC]

Once on the Statendam we had an outbreak ( which I didn't get) but the captain got so angry he yelled over the PA that if people who were ill didn't stay in their cabins he was going to announce their cabin numbers for everyone to know! He was angry and frustrated. Now he reminds passengers in his ships to wash their hand ( ad nauseum. Pardon the pun.)