Carnival Corporation BIG Announcement today

[sail7seas]

[quote=lvz2cruz;46753091

 

 

<snip>

 

]I would love to suggest this to our missions team for our church to pick a week and go together. I wonder if evangelism is allowed. We would not be interested otherwise.

I think this is very exciting!

 

I doubt evangelism is permitted on the ship with a general passenger mix. Perhaps if a full charter.

 

[wander]

I do see this as a way to entice a whole new segment of folks to cruising. Organizations like Earthwatch have been doing this type of travel (although not by cruise ship) for many years (since 1971) and successfully. Each year they offer dozens and dozens of trips for a purpose to help folks directly, or work in animal conservation, habitat protection/restoration, and such. They are relatively expensive and the living conditions are frequently not up to what is being offered for this venture.

 

I truly DO NOT think this offering is to entice mainstream cruisers to "purpose" cruising (or whatever term you want to use), but to offer an alternative to folks who already do this type of volunteer work. I know a number of retired folks who do several "work or service oriented travel trips a years - this certainly might appeal to them as an alternative. Just my thoughts.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I don't think it was mentioned yet, but do we know for a fact they were selling that ship past the planned transfer date?

 

Last cruise on Adonia on P&O's website as of right now is 19FEB-04MAR 2016, a 14 night Barbados roundtrip cruise. Here's the link: http://www.pocruises.com/d604/mode-itinerary/

 

So safe bet that after that Grand Bahama will be the shipyard of choice for any refit.

 

Edit: Looks like at least one sailing was cancelled...

Here's the post from the P&O boards:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=46751127&postcount=18

 

 

Thank you for this information.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Why would it be a HAL ship?

 

P&O UK recently added a new ship (Britannia) so they may not need a replacement for Adonia.

 

 

 

As to the cost....

I, too, thought the price was a little high if they are trying to attract younger people.

 

Adonia only has about 30 interior cabins so maybe that is why they only mention oceanview and above cabins.

 

 

I mentioned HAL because HAL keeps pushing back the dates of when the fall cruises will be released.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Haiti can be quite a dangerous place, still. My niece adopted from this country and she was advised against going there at all for safety reasons.

 

Haiti is a long way from being a tourist place, even when people come bearing gifts! This new fathom tourism is a very "soft" adventure: DR will do just fine for those interested.

 

 

 

I agree about how bad Haiti is. There are 2 young ladies from our area working at an orphanage there. They had to leave for a couple of years but since have gone back.

I would not want to visit there for any reason.

[take us away]

Open my mailbox yesterday and there was a travel magazine from a cruise consortium. So I am paging thru the magazine and bam - #41 and 42 of their top 100 travel trips are about voluntourism! Timing definitely is everything. #41 talks about the fact that the travel consortium can 'customize vacations' to include volunteer activities, #42 talks about Crystal cruises voluntourism shore excursions, which they have been doing for a while. There is also mention of an organization called Hope Floats. Bet none of these spent $85 million developing a cruise terminal, big $$ putting together new branded product complete with management staff in place, $$ refurbishing a cruise ship, then charging at least $230 a day for less of everything while on board. Sorry CCL - but I think you missed the boat on this idea.....

[peaches from georgia]

I have been chairwoman of our church's missions council for the last three years and this cruise/project is priced very well for an international trip.

We have looked at trips to Haiti, Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador, Peru and I am sure others. They would involve staying in places that do not have a/c, no hot water and in some thankful for showers at all. I remember a mission trip where we went to a public pool and showered every other day. One included breakfast as in Nutrigrain bars and lunch and dinner out of pocket. They all priced more than this.

It would be wonderful to go "home' at night to a nice bed, shower, and meal. The only thing is you feel guilty that some will never have that.

It seems most places charge alot to cover their admin staff and diapers, food for the kids, etc. in addition to your room and board. You also pay for construction materials and we usually bring suitcases of supplies which would add to the cost.

I would love to suggest this to our missions team for our church to pick a week and go together. I wonder if evangelism is allowed. We would not be interested otherwise.

I think this is very exciting!

 

I doubt evangelism is permitted on the ship with a general passenger mix. Perhaps if a full charter.

 

I'm sure she means evangelism in the areas and with the people they are helping on the island, not on the ship. This is what church mission groups do and their main purpose.

Edited June 5, 2015 by peaches from georgia

[sppunk]

I was traveling yesterday so didn't get a chance to read much or digest this news.

 

I say kudos to Carnival Corporation for launching this venture. Philanthropy cruises are a big seller (Crystal does these) so there is a market there.

 

I have zero qualms about the pricing. They are providing the volunteer materials, a hotel, food, etc. If you've ever done volunteer work outside of the U.S. you know these things are NOT cheap and are even worse scarce and inadequate.

 

And I see no issues with the Dominican Republic being the target. There are unfortunately MANY places this help is needed. Hell, I can argue why not sail into Baltimore or Philadelphia and lend a hand at the decaying inner city but of course that won't happen.

[cruisemom42]

I know quite a few Volunteers at our local school, who happen to be retired & not one of them, to my knowledge, has ever taken Selfies & posted them! Even when the local press came in to do an expose' (sp?), they had low key attitudes..

 

I don't think this new line is necessarily targeting retirees (who I wouldn't guess are big on selfies....) but younger people. And with a son in his 20s I've seen plenty of posts on FB and other social media of selfies of his friends on volunteer missions and trips.

 

 

When our area was hit by a devastating hurricane years ago, those who volunteered for a week or two were a big help to many families who needed them..

 

There is a huge difference , imo, between providing some necessary temporary aid in a developed country hit with a one-time calamity versus long-term aid in a country with little or no infrastructure and organized government support.

 

 

See my responses above.

Edited June 5, 2015 by cruisemom42

[cbr663]

Open my mailbox yesterday and there was a travel magazine from a cruise consortium. So I am paging thru the magazine and bam - #41 and 42 of their top 100 travel trips are about voluntourism! Timing definitely is everything. #41 talks about the fact that the travel consortium can 'customize vacations' to include volunteer activities, #42 talks about Crystal cruises voluntourism shore excursions, which they have been doing for a while. There is also mention of an organization called Hope Floats. Bet none of these spent $85 million developing a cruise terminal, big $$ putting together new branded product complete with management staff in place, $$ refurbishing a cruise ship, then charging at least $230 a day for less of everything while on board. Sorry CCL - but I think you missed the boat on this idea.....

 

I agree with you. CCL is actually late to the voluntourism bandwagon.

 

For those who are in Canada, CBC aired, just 8 weeks ago, Volunteers Unleashed, a very controversial documentary on this trend that you can watch here: http://www.cbc.ca/doczone/episodes/volunteers-unleashed.

 

It was Pippa Biddle, a young, volunteer tourist herself, who helped shine the spotlight on this practice by writing this blog in 2014: http://pippabiddle.com/2014/02/18/the-problem-with-little-white-girls-and-boys/

 

And, of course, there is also the "White Saviour" aspect of volutourism (http://ignatiansolidarity.net/blog/2014/07/02/white-savior-industrial-complex/).

 

The question that I have is whether CCL is doing this to do good or whether it is trying to capture a segment of the profit-making business that currently caters to this need?

 

When I watched the news conference, it seemed to me that the focus was on CCL, not on the need. CEO Donald has made no bones about this being a for-profit venture, that he hopes that it attracts new people to cruising and that it offers a solution to deploy a ship to a more friendly fuel-usage standpoint. (http://www.travelweekly.com/Cruise-Travel/Carnival-Corp-launches-philanthropic-cruise-brand).

 

So it seems that CCL has taken the worst criticisms of the voluntourism movement and decided to build a new brand upon it.

Edited June 5, 2015 by cbr663

[peaches from georgia]

CCL is a corporation whose sole purpose is to make a profit for its shareholders. That's not a criticism, it's just how it is. If they think this will be good for business, which they obviously do, they will try it. If it helps people where the fathom program goes that's a benefit, too, but not the mission of CCL.

[sail7seas]

Do any of us doubt CCL, a very successful corporation, spent many hours doing in depth studies as to the impact this would have on their bottom line? Nothing wrong with that. We want our corporations to be successful, provide lots of jobs, pay lots of taxes and contribute to the public good but anything a publicly traded company does is studied as to the bottom line consequence. They would be negligent if not.

Edited June 5, 2015 by sail7seas

[Hlitner]

You are aware that Haiti and the Dominican Republic are on the same island? The fact that you own CCL stock, as do we, does not make one iota of difference.

 

Walt - Please feel free to delete this post so that we can post it elsewhere.

 

No, I was not aware of the island of Hispaniola. Having been to both Haiti and the DR (multiple times) why would I have a clue that the countries share an island :). But, having been to both those countries they are as different as night and day. The DR does quite well compared to its neighbor. In fact, although both Haiti and the DR have a similar population (about 10 million each) the economy of the DR is about 800% bigger then its poor neighbor. So we continue to find it strange that CCL builds a new port in the DR and will move "volunteers" to that part of the island. If CCL really wanted to make a difference they should have built that port in Haiti.

 

I should add that both DW and I enjoy vacationing in the DR. Its actually a great tourist destination for those that enjoy All Inclusive resorts. And their privately owned Punta Cana Airport is one of the busiest in the Caribbean and I think its the fastest growing airport in the entire hemisphere.

 

So one wonders why CCL would choose the DR for this volunteer project? And yes, stockholders certainly have every right to question management investment decisions....not that it makes much difference.

 

Hank

Edited June 5, 2015 by Hlitner

[ScriptOhio]

I agree about how bad Haiti is. There are 2 young ladies from our area working at an orphanage there. They had to leave for a couple of years but since have gone back.

I would not want to visit there for any reason.

 

Just sayin': RCL's Labadee (i.e. Haiti) is very nice:

 

Edited June 5, 2015 by ScriptOhio

[pms4104]

Just sayin': RCL's Labadee (i.e. Haiti) is very nice:

 

RCL's Labadee looks quite lovely ... but I understand that the cruiseline area is separated from the "locals" with a high chainlink fence watched over by well-armed police ... with locals pn the non-RCL side of the fence begging for food and such from cruise peeps who wander too far off the beaten path.

Edited June 6, 2015 by pms4104

[pms4104]

Do any of us doubt CCL, a very successful corporation, spent many hours doing in depth studies as to the impact this would have on their bottom line? Nothing wrong with that. We want our corporations to be successful, provide lots of jobs, pay lots of taxes and contribute to the public good but anything a publicly traded company does is studied as to the bottom line consequence. They would be negligent if not.

 

Of course we would like corporations to have a business model that would create gobs of jobs, make lots of money and pay a healthy tax on their revenues.

 

But when a corporation, such as Carnival, is registered in Panama, I question whether they indeed pay thair fair share of taxes.

[POA1]

[Removed,]

Edited June 6, 2015 by POA1

[cbr663]

Of course we would like corporations to have a business model that would create gobs of jobs, make lots of money and pay a healthy tax on their revenues.

 

But when a corporation, such as Carnival, is registered in Panama, I question whether they indeed pay thair fair share of taxes.

 

From CCL's 2014 Annual Statement, p.24:

 

"...substantially all of Carnival Corporation’s income is exempt from U.S.

federal income and branch profit taxes."

 

We can debate whether CCL pays its fare share of taxes, but it certainly doesn't pay these taxes in the U.S.

[Third]

CCL isn't a saint. So, be glad they take this initiative. It is easy to have critics, but have you sent 700 people a week to help? I hope it is a help for the people in need, life changing for the people who go and a profit business for fathom.

[Hlitner]

I will again put on my stockholder (and active investor) hat regarding CCL tax avoidance. The Board of Directors of most for profit corporations has a fiduciary obligation to its stockholders to maximize profits. Tax reducing strategies are now a very important part of any large corporation's business plan. The reality about US Corporate taxes is that we now have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. This has forced most corps. to implement off-shore strategies. There have been several proposals for Congress to modify our corporate tax code to encourage companies to bring their money/assets back to the USA. But like all things political various agendas have blocked any helpful legislation.

 

Actually, the cruise industry is forced to work around several unhelpful laws. Besides the high corporate tax rate there is the PVSA (and Jones Act) which causes cruise lines to often avoid US Ports (costing both jobs and revenue to port communities). And US labor and tax laws, which are not compatible with ship operations, also drive all cruise lines to register their ships in other countries (often flags of convenience). Another sad reality is that tax, labor and other maritime laws/regulations have just about destroyed the US ship building industry. There is a good business reason why nearly all cruise ships are built in Italy, Finland, France and even Japan. None of these are third-world low income countries, but yet they are able to attract the ship building industry. But in our country we are just too darn good at throwing away good opportunities to satisfy the political whims of a few. So our old ship yards rust away while American-based cruise lines and shipping countries spend billions a year building ships in Europe and Asia.

 

Hank

[POA1]

I will again put on my stockholder (and active investor) hat regarding CCL tax avoidance. The Board of Directors of most for profit corporations has a fiduciary obligation to its stockholders to maximize profits. Tax reducing strategies are now a very important part of any large corporation's business plan. The reality about US Corporate taxes is that we now have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. This has forced most corps. to implement off-shore strategies. There have been several proposals for Congress to modify our corporate tax code to encourage companies to bring their money/assets back to the USA. But like all things political various agendas have blocked any helpful legislation.

 

Actually, the cruise industry is forced to work around several unhelpful laws. Besides the high corporate tax rate there is the PVSA (and Jones Act) which causes cruise lines to often avoid US Ports (costing both jobs and revenue to port communities). And US labor and tax laws, which are not compatible with ship operations, also drive all cruise lines to register their ships in other countries (often flags of convenience). Another sad reality is that tax, labor and other maritime laws/regulations have just about destroyed the US ship building industry. There is a good business reason why nearly all cruise ships are built in Italy, Finland, France and even Japan. None of these are third-world low income countries, but yet they are able to attract the ship building industry. But in our country we are just too darn good at throwing away good opportunities to satisfy the political whims of a few. So our old ship yards rust away while American-based cruise lines and shipping countries spend billions a year building ships in Europe and Asia.

 

Hank

All excellent points.

[qsuzi]

I will again put on my stockholder (and active investor) hat regarding CCL tax avoidance. The Board of Directors of most for profit corporations has a fiduciary obligation to its stockholders to maximize profits. Tax reducing strategies are now a very important part of any large corporation's business plan. The reality about US Corporate taxes is that we now have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. This has forced most corps. to implement off-shore strategies. There have been several proposals for Congress to modify our corporate tax code to encourage companies to bring their money/assets back to the USA. But like all things political various agendas have blocked any helpful legislation.

 

Actually, the cruise industry is forced to work around several unhelpful laws. Besides the high corporate tax rate there is the PVSA (and Jones Act) which causes cruise lines to often avoid US Ports (costing both jobs and revenue to port communities). And US labor and tax laws, which are not compatible with ship operations, also drive all cruise lines to register their ships in other countries (often flags of convenience). Another sad reality is that tax, labor and other maritime laws/regulations have just about destroyed the US ship building industry. There is a good business reason why nearly all cruise ships are built in Italy, Finland, France and even Japan. None of these are third-world low income countries, but yet they are able to attract the ship building industry. But in our country we are just too darn good at throwing away good opportunities to satisfy the political whims of a few. So our old ship yards rust away while American-based cruise lines and shipping countries spend billions a year building ships in Europe and Asia.

 

Hank

I've learned so much from reading your posts Hank. Thank you!

[Sow There]

I will again put on my stockholder (and active investor) hat regarding CCL tax avoidance. The Board of Directors of most for profit corporations has a fiduciary obligation to its stockholders to maximize profits. Tax reducing strategies are now a very important part of any large corporation's business plan. The reality about US Corporate taxes is that we now have the highest corporate tax rate in the world. This has forced most corps. to implement off-shore strategies. There have been several proposals for Congress to modify our corporate tax code to encourage companies to bring their money/assets back to the USA. But like all things political various agendas have blocked any helpful legislation.

 

Actually, the cruise industry is forced to work around several unhelpful laws. Besides the high corporate tax rate there is the PVSA (and Jones Act) which causes cruise lines to often avoid US Ports (costing both jobs and revenue to port communities). And US labor and tax laws, which are not compatible with ship operations, also drive all cruise lines to register their ships in other countries (often flags of convenience). Another sad reality is that tax, labor and other maritime laws/regulations have just about destroyed the US ship building industry. There is a good business reason why nearly all cruise ships are built in Italy, Finland, France and even Japan. None of these are third-world low income countries, but yet they are able to attract the ship building industry. But in our country we are just too darn good at throwing away good opportunities to satisfy the political whims of a few. So our old ship yards rust away while American-based cruise lines and shipping countries spend billions a year building ships in Europe and Asia.

 

Hank

Hank, you are right on point in your post. Consider that Carnival Corp, Royal Caribbean International and Viking, all huge cruise line companies with headquarters based here in the good old USA. The support staff (reservations, etc.) for these companies also are all based here in the USA so they do contribute their share of corporate payroll and other taxes as, of course, do their employees.

 

The loss of corporate income taxes and the unmeasurable loss to the US employment and tax revenues because of seriously outdated government regulations is shameful.

 

Interestingly, those who decry CCL's new "fathom" product because CCL can deduct the cost of their contribution to, in this case, the Dominican Republic totally misunderstand that CCL gets no tax benefit at all for this effort.

 

As a satisfied CCL shareholder (good dividend and even better shareholder on board credit benefit) I am pleased by this new move and hope that it is emulated by other cruise lines.

[Hlitner]

Hank, you are right on point in your post. Consider that Carnival Corp, Royal Caribbean International and Viking, all huge cruise line companies with headquarters based here in the good old USA. The support staff (reservations, etc.) for these companies also are all based here in the USA so they do contribute their share of corporate payroll and other taxes as, of course, do their employees.

 

The loss of corporate income taxes and the unmeasurable loss to the US employment and tax revenues because of seriously outdated government regulations is shameful.

 

Interestingly, those who decry CCL's new "fathom" product because CCL can deduct the cost of their contribution to, in this case, the Dominican Republic totally misunderstand that CCL gets no tax benefit at all for this effort.

 

As a satisfied CCL shareholder (good dividend and even better shareholder on board credit benefit) I am pleased by this new move and hope that it is emulated by other cruise lines.

 

I wish I could share your positive view. But it seems like the "fathom" product is just one more profit center, not a real contribution. The projected pricing of the cruises is at a pretty normal level. And we still have a problem getting our hands around using the DR for this "project." Besides having an economy 8 times larger then its neighbor (Haiti) the DR has a literacy rate better then 90% when compared to literacy in Haiti (about 50%). And the DR's literacy rate among younger folks is even higher. If CCL shifted its efforts to Haiti we would think much better of the corporation. My goodness, we have cities inside the USA with more literacy and poverty problems then in the DR.

 

Hank

[DaveOKC]

I wish I could share your positive view. But it seems like the "fathom" product is just one more profit center, not a real contribution. The projected pricing of the cruises is at a pretty normal level. And we still have a problem getting our hands around using the DR for this "project." Besides having an economy 8 times larger then its neighbor (Haiti) the DR has a literacy rate better then 90% when compared to literacy in Haiti (about 50%). And the DR's literacy rate among younger folks is even higher. If CCL shifted its efforts to Haiti we would think much better of the corporation. My goodness, we have cities inside the USA with more literacy and poverty problems then in the DR.

 

Hank

 

I wonder if using DR is more of a "safety" factor for CCL's passengers and perhaps an easier "sell" for them (to its passengers) than using Haiti?

 

Hopefully CCL will spread this concept to other areas, as it refines its new program (and procedures).