CONCERN about late night captain announcement on Riviera

[warburg]

Right on, hondorner. My husband and I were in two terrorist attacks in Israel on our first trip, albeit when they were still amateurs, We returned to Israel after that. The incidents did not influence our decisions. We also became pickpocket experts in Barcelona after being pickpocketed on our first trip in 1985. On our six visits after that, we were not robbed there or anywhere else since.

Mary

[GeorgesGal]

Beautfully said Hondorner, I'm with you one hundred percent!

[computerworks]

We visit Istanbul regularly and I can't say that anything has impacted adversely on our recent visits. We are going back in 5 weeks time and can't wait. Generally local people are very grateful of your visit in difficult times.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/584278/Terror-threat-MILLIONS-holidaymakers-ISIS-target-TURKEY-Foreign-Office

[ORV]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/584278/Terror-threat-MILLIONS-holidaymakers-ISIS-target-TURKEY-Foreign-Office

 

No warnings on the US state dept site.

 

I'm curious as to the credibility of the Express?

[tabatha1]

No warnings on the US state dept site.

 

I'm curious as to the credibility of the Express?

 

I certainly wouldn't consult the Express newspaper for travel advice.

[Mura]

I just googled "Travel Warnings re Turkey" and came up with a general notice from Canada advising extreme caution. There is no travel advice in general but they warn about travel near the Syrian border and some other areas because of terrorism and crime in general. Australia has a similar warning regarding the same areas (basically the border areas with Syria, Iran and Iraq) suggesting that people reconsider the need to travel there.

 

So the Express article may have been somewhat over the top but the situation doesn't look exactly reassuring. As they say, exercise extreme caution.

 

If we were planning a visit to Turkey right now we wouldn't be going to those areas anyway ...

 

I didn't see anything recent from the U.S. site. (If you specific concerns you can contact them during normal business hours ...) "Travel Alerts are issued when the State Department believes a situation exists that seriously threatens the lives of American citizens."

 

Mura

[Caroldoll]

and not overly concerned. It seems that you never know what will happen in any particular place...just think Dallas a couple of days ago. Who would have thought? Can't spend every minute worrying.

[cbb]

While he's certainly not with the state department, arthur frommer has something to say about Turkey & Egypt.

 

http://www.frommers.com/community/blogs/arthur-frommer-online/_recent-eventss-egypt-turkey-created-two-totally-different-conditions-visiting-countries

[kekilia]

But can't bring myself to go. IMO, there are different threats. One is the random, one-off type of thing one hears about on the news - Dallas, a mall shooting, escaped convicts! I believe these are million (or more) to one odds that any given individual on any given day will face such a threat, even greater that they will be harmed. To me these are like airplane crashes - you hear about them, but you don't stop flying.

 

Then, there are the statistical threats. These are more predictable and carry greater odds of threat - being in a bad part of town, late at night alone, on foot or going to a country that has a high crime rate, poor infrastructure and/or radicalized groups. While more dangerous than the first type, most likely one will come to no harm, but the risk is there.

 

Finally, there are the targeted threats. These are known risks, have a history of terror and are actively being sought out for incidents, great and small. I have to admire those who would choose to go to these places at such risk, but I could not. I believe it is especially dangerous to be in a large group in a concentrated area, such as a busload of tourists at a highly visited site in an unstable region. This, for me, is tempting fate. Akin to flying on an airliner after it had been found to be unsafe.

 

I understand those arguments that say we mustn't let the terrorists win by being intimidated, and, when it comes to my country and the freedom to keep it safe and free - I AGREE! But, for me, I will leave Iraq, Iran, Syria, Turkey, and all of North Africa to be sorted out by those who call it home and I won't visit until they do. Call it a form of boycott - remove our tourist dollar until those places can ensure safety. JMHO:o

[Pet Nit Noy]

No warnings on the US state dept site.

 

I'm curious as to the credibility of the Express?

 

The US State department was warning against all but essential travel in Egypt predating the most recent events in Luxor. There was nothing to change.

 

On the day of the bombing in Luxor, the UK Foreign Office posted information about the attack but was still claiming the Nile River Valley was safe to visit. And that's the way the web site still reads today. However, here's a link to an article in The Daily Mail which states that the Foreign Office is now warning against non-essential travel everywhere in Egypt except Sharm El Sheikh:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2563686/Egypt-bombing-New-Foreign-Office-advice-UK-holidaymakers-wake-terror-attack.html

[SellaVee]

The date on the article in the Daily Mail is 20 February 2014, so it would appear to be more than a year old.

 

I should think the Foreign Office website would be more up to date.

[Pet Nit Noy]

No warnings on the US state dept site.

 

Not so. The text that follows was copied from the State Department site. It was posted February 4, 2015.

 

"Political Violence, Demonstrations and Public Disorder: Political protests often occur without warning throughout Egypt. We remind U.S. citizens to avoid demonstrations as even those intended to be peaceful can turn confrontational and possibly escalate into violence. Egypt’s demonstrations law prohibits gatherings of more than ten persons without advance notification to the Ministry of Interior. Demonstrations have led to frequent violent clashes between police and protesters, resulting in deaths, injuries, and property damage. Peaceful demonstrators and bystanders may be subject to questioning, detention, arrest, and conviction for participating in or being in proximity to unauthorized demonstrations. In some areas, protesters have blocked major streets and bridges, burned tires and debris, established unofficial checkpoints, and thrown rocks and Molotov cocktails. Security forces have responded with tear gas, crowd-control measures, and firearms to disperse demonstrations. Protests can occur with little to no warning in any area, but Nasr City near Rabaa El-Adaweya; Dokki near Cairo University; Mohandeseen; Al Haram Street in Giza; and Al-Matareya in northeast Cairo have witnessed the most regular protest activity over the past year. In addition, the Al Qaed Ibrahim, Sidi Gaber and Sidi Beshr areas of Alexandria have been favored locations for rallies and demonstrations, particularly on Fridays. Protests and incidents of political violence have occurred with greater frequency at universities.

 

Women in particular are advised to avoid demonstrations as there have been multiple reports of gender-based violence and sexual assaults against both foreign and Egyptian women. U.S. citizens are advised that it is illegal to photograph certain facilities in Egypt, and enforcement of this law is particularly strict at demonstrations. U.S. citizens have been detained, questioned and in some cases deported for taking pictures or videos of protests or military and police personnel, facilities and equipment. Foreign journalists have been harassed by both security forces and Egyptian citizens while attempting to report on demonstrations and political news/events. Some have been detained or imprisoned for prolonged periods on various charges, such as supporting terrorist organizations, reporting false news, or endangering national security.

 

Protests and public disorder are not confined to Cairo and Alexandria. Sohag, Suez, Port Said, Fayoum, Minya, Qena, Asyut, and the Sinai Peninsula have also witnessed incidents of political violence. U.S. Embassy personnel traveling to these areas require advance approval. Egyptian authorities also restrict the travel of foreigners to certain locales. U.S. citizens planning to travel beyond Cairo and Alexandria should contact the Embassy prior to travel. We strongly urge you to avoid crowds, to exercise extreme caution if within the vicinity of any large public gatherings, and to stay well away from demonstrations.

 

U.S. citizens are urged to remain alert to local security developments and to be vigilant regarding their personal security by knowing the locations of police and fire stations, hospitals, and other places to relocate to feel secure. If you are concerned for your security, you should exercise personal responsibility, remove yourself from the situation, and relocate to an area where you feel secure. U.S. citizens should also carry identification and a cell phone or other means of communication that works in Egypt; it is advisable to have the U.S. Embassy’s number and email pre-programmed into the device. U.S. citizens are encouraged to make common sense plans to deal with security situations and to investigate alternate means of communication in country, evacuation insurance, and alternative destinations both within and outside the country in case of emergency.

 

Terrorism: Terrorists and extremists have used explosive devices, car-bombs, and drive-by shootings to target police, security officials, government institutions and civilians, resulting in deaths, casualties, and damage to infrastructure. A large number of these incidents specifically targeted Egyptian security forces and infrastructure, including the attempted assassination of the Minister of Interior, attacks on police stations, and the discoveries of explosive devices in Cairo and elsewhere. Police officers and civilian bystanders have been killed and injured by drive-by shootings in Cairo and elsewhere. The authorities have made arrests and responded with a heavy police and military presence throughout the country. Responsibility for these attacks has been attributed primarily to jihadist elements operating out of the Sinai Peninsula, which remains a particularly restive region.

 

In November 2014, Egyptian terrorist organization Ansar Beyt Al-Maqdis (ABM) pledged allegiance to the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant. ABM’s association with ISIL increases the risk that terrorist attacks could target U.S. or other western interests, including civilians. ABM has taken credit for the August 2014 murder of a U.S. citizen in a car-jacking incident in the western desert region. In addition to ABM, there are a number of other terrorist groups operating in Egypt and terrorist attacks can occur anywhere in the country.

 

Foreign tourists, including U.S. citizens, were kidnapped in the Sinai in 2012 and 2013. In February 2014, a bomb was detonated on a tourist bus, killing four persons in Taba, a Sinai resort near the Israeli border. U.S. citizens who plan to visit Taba in spite of the persistent threat of kidnapping and terrorist attacks should exercise extreme caution. U.S. citizens should be especially vigilant in crowded tourist areas, practice good personal security measures, and be alert to their surroundings. Travelers should avoid resorts and hotels that lack significant physical setback from roads and adequate security procedures. The Egyptian government maintains a heavy security presence at major tourist sites, especially the resort town of Sharm El-Sheikh.

 

U.S. citizens are encouraged to visit the U.S. Embassy Cairo website for the most up-to-date security information.

 

Alexandria: The State Department lifted ordered departure status for employees of the U.S. Consulate General Alexandria and their family members on December 16, 2013. Even though ordered departure status has been lifted, security upgrades required for U.S. government facilities in Alexandria mean that Consulate General Alexandria personnel will be based out of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo while these upgrades are made.

 

Restricted Areas: The U.S. Embassy restricts its employees and their family members from traveling outside of Cairo without prior approval and advises all U.S. citizens to carefully consider the security implications of travel outside of the greater Cairo metropolitan area. U.S. Embassy personnel in Egypt are currently prohibited from traveling to the Sinai, except by air to Sharm El Sheikh. Overland personal travel by U.S. government employees anywhere in the Sinai outside of Sharm El Sheikh is prohibited. Reports indicate that the security situation in the northern Sinai area, which is generally defined as the area north of the Cairo-Nekhl-Taba and Sheikh Zuweid road, remains dangerous due to continuing violence. Travelers should be aware of the possible dangers of overland travel.

 

In November 2014, a Presidential decree placed Egypt’s borders under military control, substantially restricting, and in some cases prohibiting, movement of non-military vehicles and persons within those areas. The military zone along Egypt’s border with Libya is particularly extensive. U.S. citizens should not travel in these border zones.

 

Safari travelers must obtain permission and a travel route from the Egyptian Military Intelligence and the Tourist Police Headquarters via a local or overseas travel agency to access Egypt's frontiers, including the borders with Libya, Sudan, Israel, and parts of the Sinai off paved roads. Police escorts are assigned to accompany foreigners during their tour.

 

Travelers should be aware that undiscovered World War II-era landmines have caused many casualties in Egypt, including deaths of U.S. citizens. All travelers should check with local authorities before embarking on off-road travel. Known minefields are not reliably marked by signs, but are sometimes enclosed by barbed wire. Heavy rains can cause flooding and move landmines, and travelers should exercise caution when encountering sand drifts on roadways. Though mines are found in other parts of Egypt, the highest concentrations are in the World War II battlefields along the Mediterranean coast west of Alexandria, the Eastern Desert between Cairo and the Suez Canal, and much of the Sinai Peninsula. Travelers are urged to be especially prudent in these areas."

 

Here's the URL for the above text:

http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/egypt.html

 

I clicked on the fourth link titled "Safety and Security".

[m1k2s3]

This thread has now taken on a life of it's own.

[BenMurphy]

This thread has now taken on a life of it's own.

 

Hi

you are right! It's like talking to a teenager! You think you're talking about one thing and they drift off on another!

 

Josie

[cbb]

actually, this thread seems like a conversation I'd have with friends and neighbors.

 

We'd start by talking about getting someone to take down a dead tree, somehow that would morph into gardening and mulch, then to the guys who'd deliver the mulch, and wasn't that Fred's kid in the truck, and wonder how Fred is doing, and from there into medical care and/or the local high school....and it all started with a dead tree across the street!!

[Mura]

The fact is that very many threads go in different directions after a while. There's nothing new in that.

[ORV]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/584278/Terror-threat-MILLIONS-holidaymakers-ISIS-target-TURKEY-Foreign-Office

 

The US State department was warning against all but essential travel in Egypt predating the most recent events in Luxor. There was nothing to change.

 

On the day of the bombing in Luxor, the UK Foreign Office posted information about the attack but was still claiming the Nile River Valley was safe to visit. And that's the way the web site still reads today. However, here's a link to an article in The Daily Mail which states that the Foreign Office is now warning against non-essential travel everywhere in Egypt except Sharm El Sheikh:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/article-2563686/Egypt-bombing-New-Foreign-Office-advice-UK-holidaymakers-wake-terror-attack.html

 

I was referring to the article that Ron posted in the quote from him above, which is about Turkey, not Egypt, I think that's another thread.

 

At any rate I should have said current warnings.

 

I was trying to determine if there was any credibility to the Express article. Did you click on that link?

[commodore2010]

The US State Department should put out a warning for Chicago. 2,700 shootings last year. One person shot every 3.5 hours.

 

Baghdad had approx. 1000 deaths in 2014. Chicago will have approx. 1000 homicides this year.

 

It just doesn't make the news.

 

 

You are approx. 25,000 more times likely to die from obesity than a terrorist. So stop eating all that food on the cruise.

You are also 2500 more times likely to kill yourself.

Edited June 15, 2015 by commodore2010

[SantaCruiser]

The refugee situation in Europe, anti American/Anti Semitism and unsettled political and financial situation in Europe has caused me to not want to visit Europe. Last time we were in Istanbul the Syrian invasion really impacted touring in the city. In Italy - even in the smaller towns we did not feel safe as we had in the past.

 

It is a personal choice, but, there are some lovely places to go without much political and social impact.

 

Really? I spent the last month driving around Italy and had no worries at all. The Italian authorities seem to have the refugee situation contained to just the small island of Lampadusa south of Sicily. I have noticed a larger presence of the Italian Coast Guard in port areas. But even in the center of Palermo we had no problem even at night. I do exercise the usual caution that you need to in any large city but we have found Italy safe and somewhat of a bargin.

[JPR]

LOL! The only real crime threats in Italy are pickpockets and purse snatchers! Far, far safer than in large U.S. cities.

 

We were on this June 1-16 Riviera cruise and have to agree that the announcement was poorly phrased and badly timed. Passengers were heading to bed after the nightly show. I would guess that many slept poorly. Some "gallows humor" jokes about sleeping on deck or near the lifeboats with life jackets on...

 

The announcement should have come from the articulate Leslie Jon, who has a way of being both informative and reassuring that the captain lacks. Not his fault. He appears to be a superb captain but English is hi second or third language.

[Floridiana]

Was it the Norwegian captain who rarely speaks? I always imagined him at the helm of a wooden Viking boat crossing the North Atlantic from Greenland to Newfoundland in a storm.

[durante]

That is the exact image I had!

[dlouise]

We were also on this cruise and I agree that the message was poorly given.

We checked with our butler the next morning and were reassured that all was fine on board

What I don't understand is why the op just didn't ask someone what was happening, the entire ship was talking about it the next day.

[Caroldoll]

I don't think from reading it is clear, what did happen? We are going to be on Marina from Istanbul to Rome in a few months, and I am interested in the conditions over there.

[MobyandDick]

What happened is that the Greek authorities warned the ship (once she left the harbour sailing on 'full seas') for a certain posssible bomb threat at the ship. Once the captain received the warning, no stone was unturned and the entire ship was fully and searched by crew and a special security protocol was performed successfully. (Passengers found many staff members searching the ship on all places, departments, cupboards, curtains, public restrooms and more.

Than only the passengers were informed that a threat was issued earlier but immediately after receiving the message, the ship was fully searched and nothing was found and the ship was found completely clean.

I agree that the timing was 'strange' but I am sure the captain and crew first done what needed to be done = searching. Also I can imagine that the captain waited until the show/theatre was finished, instead of 'breaking in'. Also I agree that the English of the captain was may be not the best, but he could not also say too much to upset the passengers more. Or lead them to think any worse. He did not have the easiest task to explain such news item: you never do it right and everyone has a different opinion?

To my humble experience, it is very rare that a threat has been made to a cruise ship with only friendly passengers and it just shows that security is needed at airports, harbours etc., anywhere around the globe to protect innocent people having time of their life.

It did not upset my cruise on-board as Oceania has done anything possible to prevent it happen and I fully enjoyed the cruise entirely in spite of this sad news item brought to passengers & crew. I will nevere surrender to criminals and those who have only bad in their mind; as this is exactly what they hope that you will be effected and stop travel. During my trips I learn every day how interesting and different everyone is and it motivates me to travel even more to be exposed and inspired.