Princess charges for norovirus meds?

[wallyboag]

Let's call a spade a spade here.

 

The most likely way someone will get Norovirus is by ingesting food prepared by someone who is contagious. You have to swallow the virus for it to infect you. Touching it doesn't give it to you unless you then put your hands in your mouth, and most people don't put their hands in their mouth. You don't catch Norovirus because other passengers are not sanitary. You catch it because the crew members that prepare your food are sick.

 

Do cruise lines keep enough staff on their ships so that when an outbreak happens sick crew members can stay quarantined without contact with any other crew for 6 days after being infected?

 

Judging by how the Crown has been infected twice in a row, my guess is the answer to that question is "No."

 

I'm sailing on the crown in 3 weeks. I hope the outbreak is over by then, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited January 21, 2016 by wallyboag

[iceleven]

Perhaps a "Typhoid Mary"

[Christine Frances]

Reading the different posts suggests a few questions:

 

How can the medical team on board limit the quarantine to two days since you remain a carrier of the virus (even if you don't show the symptoms) for days after seemingly being cured?

 

Why do they recommand Imodium if it slows the process and recovery?

 

If it is so easy to catch this virus from other passengers how is it that companions sharing the same cabin do not have it at the same time? (I witnessed this in three different couples traveling on the same cruise, my DW being sick but not me.) How come the companions of those infected are not kept in a quarantine?

 

Would it be spread by what you eat/drink on the ship? Think of one cook preparing salads, for instance...

 

On the Diamond during a bout with noro, the captain seemed optimistic about the number of cases being REPORTED diminishing every day. Was that because of the procedures adopted or was that because people (after finding out that the symptoms of noro could last only a few hours) decided to follow the advice of some of the posters and not report their illness?

 

You are quarantined until 24 hrs have passed since your last "event" lol, not specifically 2 days. But Noro runs it's course pretty quickly so you could end up only in your cabin for 2 days, usually released on the third.

I have never seen a ship offer imodium to noro patients. but they do treat extreme dehydration caused by the runs and vomiting (usually by IV) and they will give an injection to ease extreme vomiting.

[Christine Frances]

Let's call a spade a spade here.

 

The most likely way someone will get Norovirus is by ingesting food prepared by someone who is contagious. You have to swallow the virus for it to infect you. Touching it doesn't give it to you unless you then put your hands in your mouth, and most people don't put their hands in their mouth. You don't catch Norovirus because other passengers are not sanitary. You catch it because the crew members that prepare your food are sick.

 

Do cruise lines keep enough staff on their ships so that when an outbreak happens sick crew members can stay quarantined without contact with any other crew for 6 days after being infected?

 

Judging by how the Crown has been infected twice in a row, my guess is the answer to that question is "No."

 

I'm sailing on the crown in 3 weeks. I hope the outbreak is over by then, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

The virus has to enter the body and the most common way is from touching your face, rubbing your eyes, scratching your nose etc. You could touch every contaminated elevator button or handrail and never get Noro UNLESS the virus had a way into your body. Keeping your hands away from your face is the best way to prevent noro.

[DebJ14]

Beg the differ there, a flu or bad cold can be just as, or more debilitating for some people. While the ship may not report to the CDC, it can impact future sailings ....crew, back to back passengers.... ECT

 

Reader

 

I have to agree with this. We have gotten some really severe upper respiratory illnesses on ships that lasted 6 weeks after the cruise and required multiple doctor visits and prescriptions. The one and only time we got NORO was on land and our doctor said not to take anything to stop the diarrhea or vomiting because the sooner we got it out of our systems the faster we would recover.

 

We all picked up a nasty upper respiratory infection on a ship in May 2011 and were still too sick to take a prepaid trip to San Francisco a month later. I had my first bout of asthma with that one.

 

After a particularly nasty URI in August 2012 picked up on the Carnvial Magic, I was left with no sense of smell or taste. I know exactly who gave it to me - a woman at breakfast 2 days before the cruise ended. She hacked all over everyone at the table and said she had been to the ship's doctor and was put on antibiotics, but was sick of being in the cabin. I literally got up and left the table when I heard that, but the damage was done.

I deal with the results every day of my life. I have to be very careful about noxious fumes, and what I eat because I can't tell from the smell if food is spoiled. I have gotten some nasty food poisoning because of it.

 

We are considered anti-social on cruises. We only eat at a table for 2, don't ever eat at the buffet, order lots of room service and go off on our own in port. We mostly hang out in our suite and on our balcony for the duration. But, only because so many people think it is perfectly acceptable to get on a ship sick or think it is OK to spread their germs when they get sick on the cruise.

[iceleven]

I have never gotten Noro and pray I never will, but I do take precautions on a cruise. I do wash my hand after the rest room, and use the free hand sanitizer in the dining room. I take my own hand sanitizer as well.

 

I bring Lysol and Clorox wipes for the room and do a wipe down when we get on board. We don't use the elevators but if we do, I don't touch the button to call myself, I use a sleeve or something. I also have to carry hand lotion for me because it dries out my hands.

I haven't cruised all of Princess ships but all the ones that I have (Grand Class) there is no way to activate the elevator buttons other than through actual skin contact.

 

These are all things I am used to back home, so it's no different.

 

I just feel that getting Noro is different than just having the runs, it's a combination of issues. Isn't it? People do need to be careful and if you have it, I would hope you would not subject fellow passengers to it. It would ruin my trip if everyone came down with an illness but then there is nothing you can do.

 

I caught a cold in December when I got off the Grand. I don't blame the cruise ship for it in any way, but my nagging cough won't stop! Colds happen, people just have to be mindful of germs.

 

Husband and I have never gotten Noro or any other virus while on any cruise ship but we do quite a bit of immune boosting before we travel as well as the usual constant hand washing and keeping our hands from our faces.

 

As for using the Imodium, I would not use it and just let it run its course UNLESS you are within 1-2 days of disembarking the ship. The luxury of having a bathroom nearby, while waiting in long lines, or needing to board an airplane, would definitely warrant a med that would reduce the symptoms.

[wallyboag]

The virus has to enter the body and the most common way is from touching your face, rubbing your eyes, scratching your nose etc. You could touch every contaminated elevator button or handrail and never get Noro UNLESS the virus had a way into your body. Keeping your hands away from your face is the best way to prevent noro.

 

 

That is simply not true. According to the CDC page on Norovirus (http://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/about/transmission.html) you contract Norovirus by:

 

"

• eating food or drinking liquids that are contaminated with norovirus,
  
• touching surfaces or objects contaminated with norovirus then putting your fingers in your mouth, or
  
• having contact with someone who is infected with norovirus (for example, caring for or sharing food or eating utensils with someone with norovirus illness).
  

"

 

It says nothing in there about touching your face. You have to ingest and swallow the virus, thus you need to touch something and put your fingers in your mouth, or you need to eat food that is contaminated with the virus.

 

Maybe fingernail biters catch the virus from elevator buttons, but the majority of cruise ship passengers are getting it from eating contaminated food.

 

All it takes is one crew member preparing 400 dinners. One bar back dumping a bucket of ice into an ice well that is then used to prepare a 50 drinks.

 

I don't blame the crew members. Being sick means missing tips which means missing money, and they aren't paid enough as it is.

 

Bottom line is all the elevator button and hand rail cleaning in the world isn't going to stop the virus from spreading if the crew members are not properly quarantined.

[nbsjcruiser]

You are quarantined until 24 hrs have passed since your last "event" lol, not specifically 2 days. But Noro runs it's course pretty quickly so you could end up only in your cabin for 2 days, usually released on the third.

 

Our son picked up a bad case of it last year before our cruise. We landed in Florida on Sunday with a nice relaxing week planned, pre-cruise. He was up all night with it coming out of both ends - long story short, two hospital visits and 3 days is what it took for him to get over it. Then DW got it. We self quarantined ourselves in the hotel room, I wouldn't even let the housekeeping staff in. I also washed every inch of the hotel room with javex cleaner several times and was lucky enough to avoid it. Thank God we had a week planned pre-cruise because we never would have been allowed on the ship.

[Christine Frances]

That is simply not true. According to the CDC page on Norovirus (http://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/about/transmission.html) you contract Norovirus by:

 

"

• eating food or drinking liquids that are contaminated with norovirus,
  
• touching surfaces or objects contaminated with norovirus then putting your fingers in your mouth, or
  
• having contact with someone who is infected with norovirus (for example, caring for or sharing food or eating utensils with someone with norovirus illness).
  

"

 

It says nothing in there about touching your face. You have to ingest and swallow the virus, thus you need to touch something and put your fingers in your mouth, or you need to eat food that is contaminated with the virus.

 

Maybe fingernail biters catch the virus from elevator buttons, but the majority of cruise ship passengers are getting it from eating contaminated food.

 

All it takes is one crew member preparing 400 dinners. One bar back dumping a bucket of ice into an ice well that is then used to prepare a 50 drinks.

 

I don't blame the crew members. Being sick means missing tips which means missing money, and they aren't paid enough as it is.

 

Bottom line is all the elevator button and hand rail cleaning in the world isn't going to stop the virus from spreading if the crew members are not properly quarantined.

 

We can agree it has to get into your body!

 

These aerosol droplets which become airborne can also fall onto surfaces including clothing. Once touched the particles then are on your hands and through eating or touching your mouth, nose or possibly eyes, they can be ingested and infect you. The other side of the coin at this stage is that, once on the hands everything you touch may then become contaminated with particles for others to pick up. This is why regular hand washing is such an important part of infection control.

[Montrealais]

We can agree it has to get into your body!

 

These aerosol droplets which become airborne can also fall onto surfaces including clothing. Once touched the particles then are on your hands and through eating or touching your mouth, nose or possibly eyes, they can be ingested and infect you. The other side of the coin at this stage is that, once on the hands everything you touch may then become contaminated with particles for others to pick up. This is why regular hand washing is such an important part of infection control.

 

wallyboag

«All it takes is one crew member preparing 400 dinners. One bar back dumping a bucket of ice into an ice well that is then used to prepare a 50 drinks.»

 

 

CDC

Norovirus is the leading cause of illness and outbreaks from contaminated food in the United States. Most of these outbreaks occur in the food service settings like restaurants. Infected food workers are frequently the source of the outbreaks, often by touching ready-to-eat foods, such as raw fruits and vegetables, with their bare hands before serving them. However, any food served raw or handled after being cooked can get contaminated with norovirus.

 

Norovirus outbreaks can also occur from foods, such as oysters, fruits, and vegetables, that are contaminated at their source.»

………….

montrealais

«How can the medical team on board limit the quarantine to two days since you remain a carrier of the virus (even if you don't show the symptoms) for days after seemingly being cured?»

 

 

Christine Francis

«You are quarantined until 24 hrs have passed since your last "event" lol, not specifically 2 days. But Noro runs it's course pretty quickly so you could end up only in your cabin for 2 days, usually released on the third.»

 

 

CDC

«You are most contagious

 

• when you are sick with norovirus illness, and
  
• during the first few days after you recover from norovirus illness.
  

………..

 

montrealais

«Why do they recommand Imodium if it slows the process and recovery?»

 

 

Christine Francis

I have never seen a ship offer imodium to noro patients. but they do treat extreme dehydration caused by the runs and vomiting (usually by IV) and they will give an injection to ease extreme vomiting.»

 

 

montrealais

When my DW got noro on the Diamond, I phoned the medical center. They inquired if we had «something» to take. We had Imodium and they prescribed two tablets now and one tablet each time that an «evacuation» of fesces was needed. Apart from calling three times a day, that was the only medical care needed or received. And the quarantine was for two days.

 

 

montrealais

«On the Diamond during a bout with noro, the captain seemed optimistic about the number of cases being REPORTED diminishing every day. Was that because of the procedures adopted or was that because people (after finding out that the symptoms of noro could last only a few hours) decided to follow the advice of some of the posters and not report their illness?»

 

It would be nice to get an objective opinion on that and the fact that the crew serving food might be the culprit in spreading the virus, a fact that many posters have left aside in blaming the cruisers only.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Montrealais

[suzyed]

You certainly can if you have to sit around sick people coughing up a lung, sneezing, etc. It happened to me when I went for a physical and the doctor was running late. I was healthy, almost everyone else in the waiting room was not. I got sick. After that I have been of the opinion that general practitioners (and pediatricians too) should have two waiting rooms - one for contagious patients, the other for healthy/non contagious patients.

 

Our pediatrician whom we used when our kids were little, DID have two waiting rooms...."Sick" and "Well"! Great idea! Only problem was when I was there with more than just my sick kid, I didn't know which one to sit in! LOL

[victory2020]

Let's call a spade a spade here.

 

The most likely way someone will get Norovirus is by ingesting food prepared by someone who is contagious. You have to swallow the virus for it to infect you. Touching it doesn't give it to you unless you then put your hands in your mouth, and most people don't put their hands in their mouth. You don't catch Norovirus because other passengers are not sanitary. You catch it because the crew members that prepare your food are sick.

 

Do cruise lines keep enough staff on their ships so that when an outbreak happens sick crew members can stay quarantined without contact with any other crew for 6 days after being infected?

 

Judging by how the Crown has been infected twice in a row, my guess is the answer to that question is "No."

 

I'm sailing on the crown in 3 weeks. I hope the outbreak is over by then, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

I agree with you 100%. Just got off Crown after being totally disinfected but people still got sick. It's because there is an incubation period & the only common factor to each cruise is crew members. You are contagious after the symptoms have disappeared but I guarantee they don't keep the sick crew from their jobs for longer than a couple of days. I am starting to feel a little ill now & I am reading that if I have it I am not to prepare food for anyone else for days. Also virus can live in feces for up to 2 weeks. If a crew member doesn't have perfect hygiene practices, there you go.

[Colo Cruiser]

I agree with you 100%. Just got off Crown after being totally disinfected but people still got sick. It's because there is an incubation period & the only common factor to each cruise is crew members. You are contagious after the symptoms have disappeared but I guarantee they don't keep the sick crew from their jobs for longer than a couple of days. I am starting to feel a little ill now & I am reading that if I have it I am not to prepare food for anyone else for days. Also virus can live in feces for up to 2 weeks. If a crew member doesn't have perfect hygiene practices, there you go.

 

 

You blame the crew in many of your posts, I think you need some more factual information instead of conjecture. :(

[cnamenek]

My own doctor does not provide the atmosphere that makes me sick in the first place. If he did, I would expect him to provide the treatment. My major gripe is that they expect you to report you own illness, then charge you for the pleasure.

 

If your dr. has a waiting area you can get sick. If people continue to ignore proper handwashing and touch public areas anywhere on a ship or on land others will be exposed and get sick. Be thankful you can be treated realitively easy and inexpensively.

 

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Forums mobile app

[floridalover5623]

I agree with you 100%. Just got off Crown after being totally disinfected but people still got sick. It's because there is an incubation period & the only common factor to each cruise is crew members. You are contagious after the symptoms have disappeared but I guarantee they don't keep the sick crew from their jobs for longer than a couple of days. I am starting to feel a little ill now & I am reading that if I have it I am not to prepare food for anyone else for days. Also virus can live in feces for up to 2 weeks. If a crew member doesn't have perfect hygiene practices, there you go.

 

With thousands of people boarding each cruise from all parts of the world and with the possibility of dozens of them being sick how is it the crews fault for the spread of anything. They do their best with an impossible situation.

[CI66774]

Saying the cruise ship provided the environment that got you sick is like saying the earth's atmosphere is at fault. Moreover, if you can't afford to buy your own Imodium pills, maybe you really can't afford to cruise in the first place.

[peninsula_2014]

With thousands of people boarding each cruise from all parts of the world and with the possibility of dozens of them being sick how is it the crews fault for the spread of anything. They do their best with an impossible situation.

 

Crown has had this problem for TWO CONSECUTIVE cruises. Does Carnival have the same problem? I quickly checked the Carnival forum and could not find any recent threads. Carnival receives thousands of people as well.

 

If Princess customers are as vigilant as Carnival's, the only factor of difference is the cruise line, and the crew.

 

No?

[jwattle]

Just my two cents regarding Celebrity's "comping" the meds for noro versus Princess charging: look at the price tags on the cruises: I can guarantee you that most of Celebrity's apples to apples cabin comparisons cost more; their drinks absolutely cost more; if you get their "premium" beverage package (the more expensive) there are still MANY drinks that are a surcharge on top of it, whereas with Princess, there is ONE alcohol drink package, and from what I can see it covers 90% or more of the drinks, with a decent wine-by-the-glass selection, not to mention 40% off wine by the bottle. Don't get me wrong, I love Celebrity, I'm just doing the math...and that's why we are giving Princess a try, and I'll take the chance of getting dinged if I have to see the doc on board for something.

[Montrealais]

With thousands of people boarding each cruise from all parts of the world and with the possibility of dozens of them being sick how is it the crews fault for the spread of anything. They do their best with an impossible situation.

 

People agree that passengers can and do spread the virus. But what follows may add to your information regarding the crew’s possible involvement:

 

 

CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

 

 

«Norovirus can be found in your stool (feces) even before you start feeling sick. The virus can stay in your stool for 2 weeks or more after you feel better.

You are most contagious

 

• when you are sick with norovirus illness, and
  
• during the first few days after you recover from norovirus illness.»
  

………

 

 

CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

 

 

«Norovirus and food

Norovirus is the leading cause of illness and outbreaks from contaminated food in the United States. Most of these outbreaks occur in the food service settings like restaurants. Infected food workers are frequently the source of the outbreaks, often by touching ready-to-eat foods, such as raw fruits and vegetables, with their bare hands before serving them. However, any food served raw or handled after being cooked can get contaminated with norovirus.

Norovirus outbreaks can also occur from foods, such as oysters, fruits, and vegetables, that are contaminated at their source.»

[kruisey]

Maybe this passenger did not bring in on board but even with hygienic precautions caught it on board the ship missed a couple of on shore excursions, like I did a few years ago ,and was stuck in small cabin for three days on a diet of boiled fish dry rolls consomme soup with no flavour........My what a wonderful vacation ...lots of activity at both ends.......Then a medical bill on top of it:p:p

Edited January 25, 2016 by kruisey

[kruisey]

It sounds like Celebrity has a better solution to the problem making it much easier to comply with their rules. It is always better to go that extra mile to help your clients have a good time so they will come back. Princess needs to re-evaluate their procedure in the case of Noro.

 

The current Princess procedure for Noro cases encourages pax to not report it and not seek medical assistance. This then results in the bug being passed to even more pax. This is reality and not make believe.

I my instance about 8 years ago Princess paid the bill and refunded my on shore excursions.

[Hlitner]

Can't help but wonder what meds they are giving out for Noro. For most it is simply a matter of keeping hydrated (not easy) until everything passes (pun intended). Tis a nasty virus without an effective medication.

 

As to charging for medical treatment, why not? In most cases the Noro is brought aboard by passengers (or crew) just like flu, common colds, etc.

 

Hank

[kruisey]

Can't help but wonder what meds they are giving out for Noro. For most it is simply a matter of keeping hydrated (not easy) until everything passes (pun intended). Tis a nasty virus without an effective medication.

 

As to charging for medical treatment, why not? In most cases the Noro is brought aboard by passengers (or crew) just like flu, common colds, etc.

 

Hank

 

You can still wander around the ship.

Yes Celebrity have the right attitude .Excellent Customer Relation in this instance anyway.My personal opinion.

[suzyed]

People agree that passengers can and do spread the virus. But what follows may add to your information regarding the crew’s possible involvement:

 

 

CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

 

 

«Norovirus can be found in your stool (feces) even before you start feeling sick. The virus can stay in your stool for 2 weeks or more after you feel better.

You are most contagious

 

• when you are sick with norovirus illness, and
  
• during the first few days after you recover from norovirus illness.»
  

………

 

 

CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention)

 

 

«Norovirus and food

Norovirus is the leading cause of illness and outbreaks from contaminated food in the United States. Most of these outbreaks occur in the food service settings like restaurants. Infected food workers are frequently the source of the outbreaks, often by touching ready-to-eat foods, such as raw fruits and vegetables, with their bare hands before serving them. However, any food served raw or handled after being cooked can get contaminated with norovirus.

Norovirus outbreaks can also occur from foods, such as oysters, fruits, and vegetables, that are contaminated at their source.»

 

Right! I think DH got it when we bought sandwiches at the market in Tahiti.

So, of course, I shared the cabin with him while he was sick, but I didn't get it, thank God! I'm an over-the-top nut about hand washing....I guess all those years as an OR nurse taught me good lessons!

[floridalover5623]

 

«Norovirus can be found in your stool (feces) even before you start feeling sick. The virus can stay in your stool for 2 weeks or more after you feel better.

 

 

 

If that statement is true and I have no doubt if it isn't, then the health form they have you fill out at the start of the cruise isn't worth the paper it's printed on.