Which power strip to take?

[Fern Crest]

...

 

That being said, it this safe and allowed?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-51947-GE-3-Outlet-Polarized-Indoor-Extension-Cord-9/16932138

 

That's perfectly fine. :)

 

Have a great cruise!

[hftmrock]

I meant it the other way. I don't want to "sneak on" one that's surge proected, I want to bring on the correct kind. i just didn't know how they would tell the difference. Seems like it would be very tedious for the inspectors to look that closely at every one.

 

I read your intent wrong. My apologies :)

[mistyinca]

OK...

 

What do you think of this one? Does it pass muster?

http://amzn.com/B00JP741OK

 

[Wheatie59]

Nope. The fifth picture down mentions surge protection.

[NightOne]

I think this is the one I will get:

 

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V33RCTU

[MaineBirdBrain]

I have also used the Belkin in the past and had no problems. No one ever told me I couldn't. I also thought that a surge protector was exactly what you thought( the power strip with a 3 to 5 foot cord and the on/off switch with 4 to 6 plug ins). Now knowing what I do, I will not bring my Belkin but if I never read this thread, I would have and it is pretty scary to think I could have caused a disaster and no one stopped me in the past from doing so.

 

That being said, it this safe and allowed?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-51947-GE-3-Outlet-Polarized-Indoor-Extension-Cord-9/16932138

 

I was done posting on this site. However, I cannot just watch someone waste money. That item will not work on a Carnival cruise ship. A polarized plug will not fit into a non-polarized outlet. Polarized plugs have blades of differing widths. Non-polarized outlets will only accept blades of similar widths. The item you reference is compliant, but won't fit into the outlet onboard.

 

Okay... back into the shadows I go.

Edited April 26, 2016 by MaineBirdBrain

[chengkp75]

I have also used the Belkin in the past and had no problems. No one ever told me I couldn't. I also thought that a surge protector was exactly what you thought( the power strip with a 3 to 5 foot cord and the on/off switch with 4 to 6 plug ins). Now knowing what I do, I will not bring my Belkin but if I never read this thread, I would have and it is pretty scary to think I could have caused a disaster and no one stopped me in the past from doing so.

 

That being said, it this safe and allowed?

http://www.walmart.com/ip/GE-51947-GE-3-Outlet-Polarized-Indoor-Extension-Cord-9/16932138

 

That is allowed, and reasonably safe. I personally don't like the "lamp cord" style of extension cords, but prefer the more heavily insulated round "outdoor" type cord, but it depends on what you are plugging into the cord. For electronics this is fine, not for the "megawatt" hair dryer, IMHO.

[lylone]

Spoke to an electrical engineer who read the USCG clip together. It was a feedback loop in the ground between the surge protector and the device plugged in. Since there is no ground on a ship, there was nothing to stop the loop. Is why fire in the picture shows damage to surfaces but no mention about fire in the walls. Most small electronics don't use the ground on the surge protector and wouldn't cause the loop. Now a laptop, TV or monitor shown in the picture would have the ground and cause the loop. Ground is the third plug. So buy a power outlet with no grounds or don't use devices that use the ground. We take mp3 players, cell phones and tablets on a cruise. Never a laptop or TV and hence in his opinion we would not have an issue.

[Dizzneefan]

On the Legend last year, I just took one of the small adapters that converts a single plug into three. It is not a power strip nor does it have a surge protector on it. It's fine for phones, laptops, etc. I can only plug four things into it, but we charge some things at night, some things while getting ready in the morning, and it works fine. As far as I know, there is not safety issue with it. I'm taking it on the Dream next month.

[chengkp75]

Spoke to an electrical engineer who read the USCG clip together. It was a feedback loop in the ground between the surge protector and the device plugged in. Since there is no ground on a ship, there was nothing to stop the loop. Is why fire in the picture shows damage to surfaces but no mention about fire in the walls. Most small electronics don't use the ground on the surge protector and wouldn't cause the loop. Now a laptop, TV or monitor shown in the picture would have the ground and cause the loop. Ground is the third plug. So buy a power outlet with no grounds or don't use devices that use the ground. We take mp3 players, cell phones and tablets on a cruise. Never a laptop or TV and hence in his opinion we would not have an issue.

 

I would disagree with his analysis. There is in fact a ground on ships, just not to the hull and the earth like ashore. The ground goes back to the neutral point of the generator. While I somewhat agree with his statement that it was a loop between the ground and the hot, it was caused not by the appliance plugged into the surge protector, but because something on another circuit went to ground and the surge protector completed the loop. The reason the fire was on the surfaces but not in the walls is that there was not excess current that would have affected the insulation of the wires in the walls, but that the MOV's in the surge protector itself went into thermal runaway dissipating the reverse current.

 

I will agree that things with two prong plugs are better, mainly because they will not have surge protection, as surge protection requires a semi-conductor to dump excess voltage to ground. This is why the ubiquitous "wall wart" that comes with Iphones, etc, are fine, since they do not have surge protection.

 

Maybe you could also ask him whether he feels that a surge protector is needed onboard ship, and why.

Edited April 26, 2016 by chengkp75

[lylone]

He says that surge protection is not needed on a ship especially for the devices that we take.

[chengkp75]

He says that surge protection is not needed on a ship especially for the devices that we take.

 

Thank you. Another confirmation, along with the fact that no ship's electronic, computer, or control system uses surge protection.

[pohlerbear]

Stupid question but is grounded the same as surge protected?

 

I've spent an hour in amazon looking for a combo usb and regular plug that is not surge protected. Having little luck. I would prefer one that comes with a cord to plug into the wall as I'm worried the plug ins won't for.

 

 

How about this one?

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Style-TROND-4-Outlet-Fire-Proof-Aluminum/dp/B00Y9Z9KV2/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1461794059&sr=8-18-spons&keywords=outlets+to+go&psc=1

 

Never mind. I found in the small print it's surge protected.

Edited April 27, 2016 by pohlerbear

[chengkp75]

Stupid question but is grounded the same as surge protected?

 

I've spent an hour in amazon looking for a combo usb and regular plug that is not surge protected. Having little luck. I would prefer one that comes with a cord to plug into the wall as I'm worried the plug ins won't for.

 

 

How about this one?

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Style-TROND-4-Outlet-Fire-Proof-Aluminum/dp/B00Y9Z9KV2/ref=sr_1_18?ie=UTF8&qid=1461794059&sr=8-18-spons&keywords=outlets+to+go&psc=1

 

Never mind. I found in the small print it's surge protected.

 

No, grounded is not the same as surge protected, but if you find a multi-outlet/USB port that only has a two prong plug (not likely with outlets, but some multi-USB ports are this way, then it is not surge protected, as the surge protection needs a connection to ground.

 

The only multi-USB port I've found that isn't surge protected is the Zilu 5 port unit. There may be others.

[MtnDweller]

Ok, first of all we are cool on the snarkiness. ;-) I do understand the FAQ's on Carnival's website, but that's not what i'm looking for. I'm looking for personal experiences with ones that work well and are allowed on the ship. With that said can you suggest a model or strip that has worked for you?

 

 

This one worked for us in February. The side panel of the package specifically states that it is not a surge protector. Do the 360 degree view of it and you will see where it says it. We put it in our checked bag and it made it through with flying colors.

 

I also put a brand new, regular extension cord in my carry on, just in case the power strip was confiscated. It made it through with flying colors also.

[MtnDweller]

Hmmm... as far as I know, power strips are on the list of confiscated items during baggage inspections. Do not take one and expect it to be in your luggage. Usually the letter says you can claim your contraband at the end of the cruise.

 

 

Power strips are very much allowed.

[klfrodo]

No, grounded is not the same as surge protected, but if you find a multi-outlet/USB port that only has a two prong plug (not likely with outlets, but some multi-USB ports are this way, then it is not surge protected, as the surge protection needs a connection to ground.

 

.

 

Chengkp75,

I very much enjoy reading your posts and learning from your expertise.

 

However, I'm going to show my age here.

If the danger is the surge protection, and the surge protection needs a connection to ground,,,, why not go old school and cut the ground plug off?

[chengkp75]

Chengkp75,

I very much enjoy reading your posts and learning from your expertise.

 

However, I'm going to show my age here.

If the danger is the surge protection, and the surge protection needs a connection to ground,,,, why not go old school and cut the ground plug off?

 

 

First off, it depends on what you are trying to do. With an 110v outlet, I would never recommend not grounding an appliance for safety reasons. For a USB hub, the output is only 5 volts, so grounding is not as important. As far as the surge protection, yes, this would eliminate the danger of the ground MOV, but since consumer surge protectors assume that the neutral wire and the ground wire are at the same voltage (not the case on ships), there are frequently also MOV's set up across the hot to neutral, which could cause the same problem as the MOV's set up hot to ground.

[nsullivan]

I'm just worried I will search for an allowable non surge protected one and they will confiscate it because they look just like one with surge protection.

 

I'm only giving my advice on this subject and not the ethics of bringing restricted items. I kept the one we brought in its box. The box said "Not a surge protector." And I printed the list of restricted items and highlighted where it says power strips are allowed. Just in case it presented an issue. I did the same thing with the fan we brought. Packed them in our carry-on.

[WLHyatt]

So if the ground wire in an outlet is connected back to the neutral point on the generator(s), does the hull also bond to the generators at that point or are they kept floating completely?

Seems like there could be a pretty bad difference in potential between the safety ground and the ships hull that could cause problems if the entire electrical system including generators were to float.

[chengkp75]

So if the ground wire in an outlet is connected back to the neutral point on the generator(s), does the hull also bond to the generators at that point or are they kept floating completely?

Seems like there could be a pretty bad difference in potential between the safety ground and the ships hull that could cause problems if the entire electrical system including generators were to float.

 

No, that's the whole point. If any part of the electrical system is grounded to the hull, then there is the potential for current to flow through the hull. When you have two metals (like steel and bronze, typical shipbuilding materials) in sea water (an electrolyte) and you pass current through the metals, you get galvanic action (a battery), and the more reactive metal will corrode away. So, the electrical system is kept separate.

 

Because electrical equipment does fail to ground on the hull (a lighting fixture on the outside of the ship that fills with water, for example), the ship uses a means to measure and control this current. Because the electrical system is completely separate from the hull, one failure to the hull ground will not cause current to flow since there is no other connection between the hull and the electrical system. Now, the ship places a resistor and an ammeter between each phase of the electrical system and the hull. This completes the circuit for the accidental ground, but the resistor limits the current that can flow through the hull, and the ammeter reads this current, and the engineers, seeing a current, know there is a ground fault and start isolating circuits looking for the culprit. This is called "impedance grounding" because the only ground connection is via an impedance (the resistors).

[cpufrost]

Most computer power supplies (switch mode) do in fact contain clamping devices internally. And lots of laptops like the XPS 15 I'm typing on now, have a grounded supply!

 

This issue goes much deeper than the lowly MOV protected strip.

 

The biggest issue (onshore) is the spikes during lightning season. Strikes to overhead feeders WILL cause a 6.6kV surge on all branch circuits due to (the huge spike in the feeders) jumping to ground at the service entrance. If this ground is not good, well hold on because no surge arrestor is going to be able to cope with that.

 

Anyway, without MOV protection at all on sensitive devices (internal, not the strips btw) sensitive SMPS components would be damaged. And in severe cases with the premise ground, flashovers across the module that carry overvoltage to CMOS parts; goodbye computer.

 

On ships it's different. Lightning does strike ships but the effect is so much different than on land.

 

TBH, I'm more concerned with those all plastic strips that don't have discrete outlets, especially when they have hair dryers pulling 1.8kW connected to them! :eek:

 

If you're handy, go to home depot or your favorite DIY center, get some quad boxes, nice nylon faced duplex outlets, SJ cord (14/3) and plug and roll your own. ;)

 

A good one looks like this:

 

 

There are solutions to deal with this issue but as explained earlier they are not cost effective.

 

I don't think I'm going to lug a 140kg balanced power ferroresonant based conditioner around. :D

 

Perhaps my fellow engineer(s) may be interested in hooking up a Dranetz in their quarters and posting a power quality graph of a week long voyage?

 

Power's been pretty clean on NCL except for blackouts, of course. ;)

[WLHyatt]

How big is that resistor? I could imagine that current could be pretty significant.

 

Chengkp75, thanks for the insight, I have a pretty good understanding of normal land-based power distribution (even as an amateur), but ships are a whole other beast.

[chengkp75]

How big is that resistor? I could imagine that current could be pretty significant.

 

Chengkp75, thanks for the insight, I have a pretty good understanding of normal land-based power distribution (even as an amateur), but ships are a whole other beast.

 

The ship is broken down into separate power feeders for each of the various fire zones (maybe 6-8 per ship, you know, where the fire doors are in the passageways) at each voltage. So the 480v panel for each zone will have a ground detection system, then the 220v panel, and finally the 110v panel. Then of course there are the two main 10k volt distribution switchboards. The resistors are very high resistance so that the current is kept to the milliamp range.

[Guineaman]

From one engineer to another, well stated. I'm a fluid mechanics guy, but I get the gist.