To go or not to go

[jayne62]

I would not cancel the cruise, there is always risk but its about taking sensible risks. We are doing a Mediterranean cruise in September and I feel much safer going to Europe than I would going to the US. The cruise companies are monitoring events and making security decisions with access to much more reliable information than what I have access to so I'll be guided by them.

 

In my opinion we give in to terror and stay home then the terrorists win and the economies of these countries being attacked suffer and in turn, the people.So without taking needless risks we'll continue to travel and enjoy life while we can.

[HarpHarp]

Breaking News!

CNN is reporting that 3 police offices have been killed, and 4 others shot in Baton Rouge. Reports indicate police were responding to reports of a man walking down the street with an assault rifle and were picked off by a sniper at a nearby location. The site of the Republican Convention in Cleveland is in an "open carry" area where anyone can openly carry a firearm! And people worry about travel to Europe! Maybe the authorities in Europe should issue a warning about travel to the United States.

 

As someone who lives a short drive from the Q,site of the Republican convention, I'd much rather travel in Europe than head downtown in the next week, with both the New Black Panthers & Bikers for Trump demonstrating & carrying rifles.

Random acts of violence can happen anywhere. Civil unrest like the situation in Turkey would make me reluctant to go there, but otherwise you are more likely to die in an automobile crash. I don't know where I might travel and be assured that I would not run into difficulties.

If the current situation means that you could not enjoy it, then cancel. Honestly ask yourself where you could go that you would feel safer.

[RocketMan275]

I submit that one of the problems today is people being loose with their facts and posting inaccurate information on social media.

 

The site of the Republican Convention in Cleveland is in an "open carry" area where anyone can openly carry a firearm!

 

I certainly agree with you that: "people being loose with their facts and posting inaccurate information on social media." can be a problem. A bit of research would have shown that the RNC convention site is a federally controlled security zone where open carry is strictly prohibited.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/15/gop-convention-qa-ohios-open-carry-gun-laws/

 

Which states, in part, "The Secret Service, which is providing security for the venue, has banned firearms in the convention venue and small security perimeter around it. It’s possible the Secret Service will designate other places as national security zones."

[HarpHarp]

I certainly agree with you that: "people being loose with their facts and posting inaccurate information on social media." can be a problem. A bit of research would have shown that the RNC convention site is a federally controlled security zone where open carry is strictly prohibited.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/15/gop-convention-qa-ohios-open-carry-gun-laws/

 

Which states, in part, "The Secret Service, which is providing security for the venue, has banned firearms in the convention venue and small security perimeter around it. It’s possible the Secret Service will designate other places as national security zones."

 

The building & entrance area, are under secret service pervue, & therefore not subject to open carry, despite a petition by the NRA to permit carrying on the convention floor. The area outside the fence is open carry at present and there was open carry in evidence yesterday at the first demonstration. This includes the areas set aside for protests. I say at present time because one hour ago after the shootings in Baton Rouge this happened.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/politics/cleveland-police-baton-rouge-security-open-carry/

[RocketMan275]

The building & entrance area, are under secret service pervue, & therefore not subject to open carry, despite a petition by the NRA to permit carrying on the convention floor. The area outside the fence is open carry at present and there was open carry in evidence yesterday at the first demonstration. This includes the areas set aside for protests. I say at present time because one hour ago after the shootings in Baton Rouge this happened.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/17/politics/cleveland-police-baton-rouge-security-open-carry/

 

Police unions are political organizations and do not speak for the police department and often do not speak for the rank and file policemen.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the NRA has not initiated any petitions. I think you're referring to a petition by "The group Americans For Responsible Open Carry". This organization started the petition on Monday, according to the Akron Beacon-Journal.

Edited July 17, 2016 by RocketMan275

[HarpHarp]

Police unions are political organizations and do not speak for the police department and often do not speak for the rank and file policemen.

 

To the best of my knowledge, the NRA has not initiated any petitions. I think you're referring to a petition by "The group Americans For Responsible Open Carry". This organization started the petition on Monday, according to the Akron Beacon-Journal.

 

From the petition months ago actually, for carry INSIDE the Q " From the National Rifle Association: An immediate condemnation of the egregious affront to the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution constituted by the "gun-free zone" loophole to the state law." There were several petitions over the last few months, All of which were denied. THis request will be denied by the governor too.

You can open carry a weapon into the secure zone around the Q, but not tennis balls, canned goods, lightbulbs, & metal tipped umbrellas-hope it doesn't rain. I know several officers working downtown & talked to a member of the Secret Service contingent on Thursday. None of them are happy with the open carry ruling. It will make their job that more difficult.

This is enough hijacking of this thread.

[Boytjie]

There many 'NO' zones in cities all over Europe where police cannot go in like in Paris, Marseille, Lyon etc..

 

Are you referring to the discredited claims about No-Go zones in European cities?

Edited July 17, 2016 by Boytjie

[mame42]

As I sit here in my condo in Baton Rouge, watching CNN footage of the murder of police officers near a shopping center I frequent, I am reminded that safety is a relative thing. If I am to feel unsure of my safety, I might as well feel that way while being pampered on a cruise ship or exploring amazing destinations.

[RocketMan275]

From the petition months ago actually, for carry INSIDE the Q " From the National Rifle Association: An immediate condemnation of the egregious affront to the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution constituted by the "gun-free zone" loophole to the state law." There were several petitions over the last few months, All of which were denied. THis request will be denied by the governor too.

You can open carry a weapon into the secure zone around the Q, but not tennis balls, canned goods, lightbulbs, & metal tipped umbrellas-hope it doesn't rain. I know several officers working downtown & talked to a member of the Secret Service contingent on Thursday. None of them are happy with the open carry ruling. It will make their job that more difficult.

This is enough hijacking of this thread.

 

I can find no record on the internet of any petition by the NRA to allow open carry within the Q.

 

Agree, let's drop this.

[dakrewser]

There many 'NO' zones in cities all over Europe where police cannot go in like in Paris, Marseille, Lyon etc..

 

You do realize that the "no go" zones were a fabrication of Mr. Murdoch's tabloids, don't you?

[Cruzer Two]

I certainly agree with you that: "people being loose with their facts and posting inaccurate information on social media." can be a problem. A bit of research would have shown that the RNC convention site is a federally controlled security zone where open carry is strictly prohibited.

 

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2016/07/15/gop-convention-qa-ohios-open-carry-gun-laws/

 

Which states, in part, "The Secret Service, which is providing security for the venue, has banned firearms in the convention venue and small security perimeter around it. It’s possible the Secret Service will designate other places as national security zones."

 

I stand by my earlier statement. The entire state of Ohio is "open carry". The Secret Service only controls the convention venue and a "small" perimeter around it as you stated. The police requested that the "open carry" provision be revoked around the entire area, but this was prohibited by the state constitution. The Secret Service can only control the area that is a threat to the candidates. It will be open season in the rest of the city.

[SusieKay]

I feel fortunate that we were able to start traveling to Europe in 1996, and have gone almost yearly since. Mostly independent, with rental cars, and long term apartment stays in small villages. A few cruises. Loved every minute of it, but we have decided not to go back. We were last there in May of 2015 when we spent a week in London at the conclusion of a transatlantic cruise.

 

I really can't say whether terrorism has influenced our decision or not. Certainly its impact on travel has. In fact, airline travel has become such a miserable experience, I am questioning whether I wish to be subjected to it again.

 

After canceling a cruise we had booked for this past spring, it was almost a relief to pack a small bag and head off in our car to a bed and breakfast in the mountains.

Did we lose money, yes? Was it worth it, yes!

Would we do it again? Absolutely.! We already have several other trips planned.

 

There are so many wonderful places in the US left to see, and we hope to see many of them. Could we be attacked by terrorists here? Of course. Will we be any safer? Probably not. But it makes me feel a bit more confident to know if something were to happen I could speak the language, use the phone system or my cell phone without difficulty, access health care without an interpreter, easily contact my children, and hopefully get home without much delay. Those are some of the things that could be extremely challenging in Europe if a terrorism event happened nearby, even if it did not affect me directly.

 

We all have to make our own decisions. These are the ones I feel comfortable with.

Unfortunately, the world changed on 9/11. Innocence was lost that will never be regained.

[Sir PMP]

You do realize that the "no go" zones were a fabrication of Mr. Murdoch's tabloids, don't you?

 

 

Sorry, been there, North Paris, East Marseille, West Amsterdam, The Hague, WHERE I AM FROM, there are areas where cops don't go in or with DELAYED hesitation, yes even Stockholm is in there, the best you can do is ignore and pretend it ain't happening....

[Wendy-Europe]

Sorry, been there, North Paris, East Marseille, West Amsterdam, The Hague, WHERE I AM FROM, there are areas where cops don't go in or with DELAYED hesitation, yes even Stockholm is in there, the best you can do is ignore and pretend it ain't happening....

 

Dear Sir PMP

 

if you point out these No Go Areas, you should be honest enough to explain something about these areas.

 

First of all - these are not "no go" areas. Most of them are not a problem during the day for "normal" people. BUT - these are suburbs with a high concentration of subsidized housing. It is a byproduct of Gentrificationand city developpers avoid in these days to divide housing between "rich" and "poor".

 

At Paris there are problems in SOME of the suburbs at the "banlieue". I highly doubt that ANY tourist visit one of these areas during their visit. (neither in Paris, nor in Marseille, nor in Stockholm).

 

And I am sure, each big city has similar problems - I know about Los Angeles - suburbs like Inglewood, Compton, Lynwood, Lomitas, Watts und South Central, at New Yorks Brownsville and Community District 16 or many areas at Detroit...

 

No - we do not deny that there are problems in Europe - we try to solve problems. It is not easy to fix these problems - one of the reasons is "money" - living at the banlieu is affordable - and there is a lot of housing - but again - it is not a tourist area:

Edited July 18, 2016 by Wendy-Europe

[RocketMan275]

I stand by my earlier statement. The entire state of Ohio is "open carry". The Secret Service only controls the convention venue and a "small" perimeter around it as you stated. The police requested that the "open carry" provision be revoked around the entire area, but this was prohibited by the state constitution. The Secret Service can only control the area that is a threat to the candidates. It will be open season in the rest of the city.

 

Let's drop this discussion. It's totally off-topic. If you would like to have a discussion on gun control and violence in the inner cities, then there are other forums that are more appropriate.

[Cruzer Two]

Let's drop this discussion. It's totally off-topic. If you would like to have a discussion on gun control and violence in the inner cities, then there are other forums that are more appropriate.

 

Absolutely! If you quit posting responses the thread would have died a natural death! :)

[RocketMan275]

Absolutely! If you quit posting responses the thread would have died a natural death! :)

 

And, without your comments, it would have died much sooner. :):)

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Go and have a great time, I am on the Prinsendam in U. K. Today. Don't worry, congratulations you will have a great time on the cruise.

[Cruzer Two]

And, without your comments, it would have died much sooner. :):)

 

Yes, but everyone would have missed out on my thought provoking comments that were right on spot! :D :D :D

[david,Mississauga]

Breaking News!

CNN is reporting that 3 police offices have been killed, and 4 others shot in Baton Rouge. Reports indicate police were responding to reports of a man walking down the street with an assault rifle and were picked off by a sniper at a nearby location. The site of the Republican Convention in Cleveland is in an "open carry" area where anyone can openly carry a firearm! And people worry about travel to Europe! Maybe the authorities in Europe should issue a warning about travel to the United States.

 

Although there is a minor difference in some sources, the murder rate in the USA is approximately three times what it is in Canada and many European countries. It is four times what it is in some other European countries and the UK.

 

As for terrorism, have the horrors of what is known as "9-11" and the "Oklahoma bomber" been forgotten?

 

As our late king said: Keep calm and carry on. I would add: keep everything in perspective.

[avian777]

... the likelihood of being shot while walking the streets in America ... is much larger than being injured in a terrorist attack in Europe.

 

Assume you are referring to your hometown (Gainesville, GA) ... thanks for the warning - I will definitely not be traveling there ...

[avian777]

You do realize that the "no go" zones were a fabrication of Mr. Murdoch's tabloids, don't you?

 

Thanks for the info. By any chance, do you have any credible support for your claim?

[RocketMan275]

Yes, but everyone would have missed out on my thought provoking comments that were right on spot! :D :D :D

 

Fine, just drop it.

[cruisemom42]

Thanks for the info. By any chance, do you have any credible support for your claim?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2015/01/18/fox-news-corrects-apologizes-for-no-go-zone-remarks/

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/19/world/europe/fox-news-apologizes-for-false-claims-of-muslim-only-areas-in-england-and-france.html?_r=0

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2015/01/paris-mayor-to-sue-fox-over-no-go-zone-comments/384656/

[Fouremco]

As our late king said: Keep calm and carry on. I would add: keep everything in perspective.

Keep Calm and Carry On was one of three motivational posters designed by the British Ministry of Information in 1939. I suppose that George VI might have read the poster. :)