Club class impact

[KruzeKrazy!]

Just do the math to appreciate the impetus behind Club Class (numbers below for example purposes):

 

$400 per 7-day cruise per pax upcharge

x 30 CC cabins per ship

x 2 px per cabin

x 52 weeks

= $1.25 million per ship annual incremental revenue potential

 

And for items that bear limited incremental cost that yields a strong profit contribution opportunity.

 

Given the above I would predict Club Class is here to stay and any operational/pax experience hiccups will be worked on and worked out.

[KruzeKrazy!]

Just do the math to appreciate the impetus behind Club Class (numbers below for example purposes):

 

$400 per 7-day cruise per pax upcharge

x 30 CC cabins per ship

x 2 px per cabin

x 52 weeks

= $1.25 million per ship annual incremental revenue potential

 

And for items that bear limited incremental cost that yields a strong profit contribution opportunity.

 

Given the above I would predict Club Class is here to stay and any operational/pax experience hiccups will be worked on and worked out.

Correcting my typo - meant to say 80, not 30, Club Class minis which would make the annual per ship incremental revenue opportunity more like $3.5 million.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Forums mobile app

[west coast cruiser]

As all this sinks in, I think that realistically there are 2 choices. 1) Chose NOT to dine between 5:45-7:30 2) Go back to Traditional.

 

Personal Choice Dining really does not exist anymore on Princess unless you are in Club Class.

 

That seems to be the answer. I was wondering this afternoon if this meant going back to traditional dining. I don't mind dining at 7:30 though.

[AtlantaCruiser72]

Princess' ATD has been problematic for years. On the ships with 3 dining rooms one is used for early traditional, then switches to ATD around 730ish. Emphasis on the ish. Now that Princess' shows are shorter this puts added pressure on ATD around the time that DR switches from early traditional to ATD. Princess also does not enforce passengers signed up for traditional dining sticking with their assigned dining selection. I have never once had them ask my cabin number for ATD. On my last cruises on the Caribbean Princess in fall 2014 waits of upwards of 30-60 minutes were common if you wanted to be seated anytime before 9pm.

 

The space set aside for Club Class dining is not the issue here, it's how's Princess ships are set up and how they handle the ATD that is to blame more than anything.

[KruzeKrazy!]

We've done Princess ATD and thoroughly liked it. But we were in a full suite and we got priority ATD seating and some very special treatment which (a) cost Princess nothing to do but (b) made our dining experience, and thus our cruise, very memorable indeed.

[Colo Cruiser]

 

The space set aside for Club Class dining is not the issue here, it's how's Princess ships are set up and how they handle the ATD that is to blame more than anything.

 

 

CC will only add to the issues there shortly.

Edited December 31, 2016 by Colo Cruiser

[peagreenid]

Correcting my typo - meant to say 80, not 30, Club Class minis which would make the annual per ship incremental revenue opportunity more like $3.5 million.

 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Forums mobile app

 

Your first number was closer. It looks like there are about 28 Club Class mini's on the grand class ships.

 

I want to add that the people who book Suites do it for good reason. We were offered an upsell to a full suite and tried it out. It is really hard not to book them now because we loved it. The additional space and cabin amenities were nice but to dine at Sabatini's for breakfast without the crowds was amazing. Being able to pay extra to not deal with the crowds for dinner would be a great feature for us. Being able to do it without the cost of a full Suite is a great feature that we wouldn't have a problem paying extra for.

 

I also agree that this is simply paying for a service or TIME. I don't equate it any differently than First Class flights, Paying for TSA Pre or Global Entry to cut the line, Paying extra at amusement parks that have go to the head of the line passes, or any other membership/fee that people pay for services and benefits to shorten their wait time.

 

Patty

[RDC1]

Just off the Ruby today. We didn't have Club Class, however the impact on ATD was quite dramatic. This was our first time with ATD and we will never do it again. We waited at least 20 minutes to get a pager that was another 45 minutes to get a table. We originally got in line at 7:30pm so we had a looooong first dinner. We were then able to get a standing 8pm reservation for Da Vinci for the remainder of the cruise, but only after several attempts to meet with the maitre d.

 

A section of tables is set aside in Da Vinci for CC, not the entire dining room. But the bigger problem is both ATD dining rooms taking reservations, which seems to defeat the purpose of "anytime" to me. If I had known we still needed reservations I would have booked TD originally. Lesson learned.

 

but it was still a fabulous cruise!

 

Da Vinci on Dec 6 has usually been traditional for first seating and then converts to anytime after first seating is complete. Michelangelo on Deck 5 is usually always anytime.

 

So if they have set aside part of Da Vinci that should not impact anytime during early dining, other than reduce the number of traditional dining slots available and potentially pushing some of the folks that normally would be traditional to anytime.

Edited December 31, 2016 by RDC1

[shredie]

 

I also agree that this is simply paying for a service or TIME. I don't equate it any differently than First Class flights, Paying for TSA Pre or Global Entry to cut the line, Paying extra at amusement parks that have go to the head of the line passes, or any other membership/fee that people pay for services and benefits to shorten their wait time.

 

Patty

 

I don't think anyone objects to someone paying for an extra service. What people are concerned about is the effect it will have on those who are not Club Class. ATD diners are worried about longer lines and fewer staff in the ordinary MDR. Passengers who have enjoyed lunch in the MDR on embarkation day are concerned that a perk they have enjoyed for free will now cost them if they want to partake. People are concerned that perks they used to have are being taken away and then sold to higher bidders.

[KruzeKrazy!]

I don't think anyone objects to someone paying for an extra service. What people are concerned about is the effect it will have on those who are not Club Class. ATD diners are worried about longer lines and fewer staff in the ordinary MDR. Passengers who have enjoyed lunch in the MDR on embarkation day are concerned that a perk they have enjoyed for free will now cost them if they want to partake. People are concerned that perks they used to have are being taken away and then sold to higher bidders.

We also love embarkation day lunch in the MDR but virtually every added extra-cost amenity (outside of what is in a cabin) takes away from what used to be no extra cost space. Sanctuary took away previous public space to become extra-fee space, etc.

[shastatroy]

Just off got of the Ruby today...and I was in Club Class Dining.

 

It is one section of the Da Vinci dining room that you enter near the Calypso Cove. It is available during breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

You have the same waitstaff every meal, and the same table. You can come anytime during the dining hours. A few dinners started with amuse-bouche, and there was always one dish that wasn't on the menu which was prepared at a central location by the head waiter. The menu is the same that if offered in the other dining rooms.

 

It was a great suite perk, that being said not all suite guests used Club Class Dining. There are 26 suites on the Ruby and at no time were there more than 12 tables being used.

 

I have never liked anytime dining so I always get early dining times. Although it was nice arriving when we wanted I wouldn't pay more for Club Class Dining because I am fine with a set dining time.

 

I didn't notice the lines for anytime dining to be any worse than they always have been.

[RDC1]

Your first number was closer. It looks like there are about 28 Club Class mini's on the grand class ships.

 

I want to add that the people who book Suites do it for good reason. We were offered an upsell to a full suite and tried it out. It is really hard not to book them now because we loved it. The additional space and cabin amenities were nice but to dine at Sabatini's for breakfast without the crowds was amazing. Being able to pay extra to not deal with the crowds for dinner would be a great feature for us. Being able to do it without the cost of a full Suite is a great feature that we wouldn't have a problem paying extra for.

 

I also agree that this is simply paying for a service or TIME. I don't equate it any differently than First Class flights, Paying for TSA Pre or Global Entry to cut the line, Paying extra at amusement parks that have go to the head of the line passes, or any other membership/fee that people pay for services and benefits to shorten their wait time.

 

Patty

 

Not the same. A person buying a coach ticket would get the same experience, even if first class did not exist on the plane. The implementation of club class can and probably will negatively impact non-club class passenger, compared to if it was not implemented. The impact will be the number of seats held in the dining rooms, that will either reduce those available to early traditional or to any time dining. Because it is advertised as no wait the ratio seats to passengers in the dining room for those not in Club class will decrease negatively impacting their experience.

 

To use the aircraft comparison it would be similar if the airline decided that half of the seats in the gate area were reserved only for first class. Reducing the number for coach passengers. That would be a closer comparison.

[RDC1]

Just off got of the Ruby today...and I was in Club Class Dining.

 

It is one section of the Da Vinci dining room that you enter near the Calypso Cove. It is available during breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

You have the same waitstaff every meal, and the same table. You can come anytime during the dining hours. A few dinners started with amuse-bouche, and there was always one dish that wasn't on the menu which was prepared at a central location by the head waiter. The menu is the same that if offered in the other dining rooms.

 

It was a great suite perk, that being said not all suite guests used Club Class Dining. There are 26 suites on the Ruby and at no time were there more than 12 tables being used.

 

I have never liked anytime dining so I always get early dining times. Although it was nice arriving when we wanted I wouldn't pay more for Club Class Dining because I am fine with a set dining time.

 

I didn't notice the lines for anytime dining to be any worse than they always have been.

 

Was the rest of Da Vinci still early seating traditional and late any time?

 

If it was then the primary impact would be to reduce the number of early traditional dining seats available by the size of the club dining area, not an impact to ATD.

[caribill]

CC dining is like everything else new on Princess--it takes a while to either get the bugs out (such as when ATD was first introduced) or for Princess to decide that it's not working and cancel it (like the computer software classes offered years ago or prepayment for 2017 Alaska shore excursions). I'm looking forward to the CC experience on the Pacific Princess this summer, and that ship has one MDR and no ATD, so that will have to be carefully planned and implemented.

 

a) The bugs are still not out of ATD. If they were, lines would not stretch into the atrium area. On Princess there are a limited number of places for Traditional Dining. Once those are filled, the overflow is assigned to ATD. There is no limit to the number of passengers who can sign up or be assigned to ATD. And if 1000 of your new best friends want their anytime to be the same as yours, there will be a wait. Cruise lines such as RCCL and CCL limit the number of ATD diners and once that limit is reached, others who want it are assigned (very unhappily) to TD.

 

b) The computer software classes were not eliminated because they were not working. They ended because the company that was contracted to teach them went out of business.

 

c) On the Pacific Princess there is a total of 34 CC mini-suites and full suites. On a two passenger/cabin basis, that is 68 people eligible to have Club Class Dining.

 

My guess is that the Club Class folk will have to pick either early or late seating and will be assigned to an area of the dining room that will have the extra menu features for them. Of course this is only a guess, but I do not see Princess turning part of that traditional only dining room into having a section of it being anytime for CC diners.

 

Of course not all CC eligible diners will actually want to have CC dining. They may be traveling with and want to dine with others who are not in CC cabins.

[RDC1]

a) The bugs are still not out of ATD. If they were, lines would not stretch into the atrium area. On Princess there are a limited number of places for Traditional Dining. Once those are filled, the overflow is assigned to ATD. There is no limit to the number of passengers who can sign up or be assigned to ATD. And if 1000 of your new best friends want their anytime to be the same as yours, there will be a wait. Cruise lines such as RCCL and CCL limit the number of ATD diners and once that limit is reached, others who want it are assigned (very unhappily) to TD.

 

b) The computer software classes were not eliminated because they were not working. They ended because the company that was contracted to teach them went out of business.

 

c) On the Pacific Princess there is a total of 34 CC mini-suites and full suites. On a two passenger/cabin basis, that is 68 people eligible to have Club Class Dining.

 

My guess is that the Club Class folk will have to pick either early or late seating and will be assigned to an area of the dining room that will have the extra menu features for them. Of course this is only a guess, but I do not see Princess turning part of that traditional only dining room into having a section of it being anytime for CC diners.

 

Of course not all CC eligible diners will actually want to have CC dining. They may be traveling with and want to dine with others who are not in CC cabins.

 

That would be counter to how Princess marketed club class dining, since they specifically stated that those in club class could dine at any time.

[caribill]

This is how Princess operates since a certain official whose initials may or may not be J.S. (;):)) took over: try it first to see if we can get away with it and then take it back when people complain. Remember charging for Alfredo's on the Royal (Regal?), a charge sprung on the passengers only after they had boarded the ship? Then there's the prepay excursions, etc. If people don't complain, they will saddle us with any number of bad ideas just to see how far they can take the nickel and dimeing.

 

Actually there have been a number of what I consider bad ideas implemented which others have embraced so much they are permanent.

 

a) Reduce the quality of the food in the main dining rooms and then charge $29 and up to get that quality in a specialty restaurant. If passengers did not agree it is fine to pay more for what used to be included at no additional cost, then the specialty restaurants would not have become a must experience for many cruisers.

 

b) Princess used to have a good number of free upgrades when it was to their benefit to fill cabins that were slow to sell and be able to resell cabins that were in greater demand. But then the upsells started and meaningful free upgrades are far and few between now. There are many posts on Cruise Critic by people practically begging for an upsell offer. With so many people willing to pay for what used to be free, upsells are a success.

[caribill]

We've done Princess ATD and thoroughly liked it. But we were in a full suite and we got priority ATD seating and some very special treatment which (a) cost Princess nothing to do but (b) made our dining experience, and thus our cruise, very memorable indeed.

 

But the difference between your previous experience and CC dining is that they did not keep tables vacant all evening in case you might show up.

 

Thus your priority ATD dining did not really inconvenience a number of other passengers like unused CC tables do.

[caribill]

I have never once had them ask my cabin number for ATD.

 

I find that very hard to believe.

 

On every Princess cruise I have been on they have checked the cruise cards of everyone going into the ATD rooms the first evening and often the second evening of the cruise.

 

They might not be checking the cards after the first two evenings, but if went to the ATD room the first evening (and maybe the second) your card would have been checked.

 

(OK, I believe they did not ask your cabin number, but they would have checked your cruise card.)

[caribill]

I also agree that this is simply paying for a service or TIME. I don't equate it any differently than First Class flights, Paying for TSA Pre or Global Entry to cut the line, Paying extra at amusement parks that have go to the head of the line passes, or any other membership/fee that people pay for services and benefits to shorten their wait time.

 

 

There is a difference for TSA PreCheck and Global Entry.

 

Having those features did not add to the inconvenience of others and make their lines longer. Actually, by diverting those with PreCheck and GE to their own lines, it made the regular lines shorter.

 

(When I flew out of DCA this year the lines for those with PreCheck were longer than the lines for those without it. And the only truly additional thing I had to do on the regular line was take my laptop out of my carryon.)

[cr8tiv1]

Just off got of the Ruby today...and I was in Club Class Dining.

 

It is one section of the Da Vinci dining room that you enter near the Calypso Cove. It is available during breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

You have the same waitstaff every meal, and the same table. You can come anytime during the dining hours. A few dinners started with amuse-bouche, and there was always one dish that wasn't on the menu which was prepared at a central location by the head waiter. The menu is the same that if offered in the other dining rooms.

 

It was a great suite perk, that being said not all suite guests used Club Class Dining. There are 26 suites on the Ruby and at no time were there more than 12 tables being used.

 

I have never liked anytime dining so I always get early dining times. Although it was nice arriving when we wanted I wouldn't pay more for Club Class Dining because I am fine with a set dining time.

 

I didn't notice the lines for anytime dining to be any worse than they always have been.

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. I have a cruise booked toward the end of the year and will be able to experience this for myself. The one thing I am excited about is enjoying a dinner at a reasonable time. I mean, after all, there's tea at 3:30 and Elite Happy Hour at 5. I'm not ready to start my dinner at 5:15 for TDR hours.

 

A couple more questions. What time did you usually dine? Did you have enough time to make it the the Theater for the shows?

 

We haven't cruised together in a long time. Soon, I hope.

[KruzeKrazy!]

But the difference between your previous experience and CC dining is that they did not keep tables vacant all evening in case you might show up.

 

Thus your priority ATD dining did not really inconvenience a number of other passengers like unused CC tables do.

Actually they did. They held a specific 4-top in a great location for the 2 of us for whenever we wanted it - every day at any time. But to be kind to others we tried to let them know each day if we'd be there or dining elsewhere, and if dining there, at what time.

 

But we were just one party so the impact on everyone else was minimal if even noticeable. I can certainly appreciate the impact of something like that taking place for numerous parties. And I am concerned about our upcoming cruise where my DW and I are in a full suite and our DD/DSIL and DS/DSIL are in std minis (not CC), we're all on ATD, and how we'll be able to dine together in a MDR without a long wait.

 

I've considered a surprise upgrade for them to CC but can't justify the price difference. For the extra cost of CC per cabin they could likely pay for excursions for 2 at every port.

[shredie]

Just off got of the Ruby today...and I was in Club Class Dining.

 

 

You have the same waitstaff every meal, and the same table. You can come anytime during the dining hours..

 

 

 

So it's as if you have traditional dining (same staff, same table) except you can show up whenever you like? I guess that means the table you get will be empty for the entire time you are not eating. If that's how it works, that sounds like a waste of space to me. I think the extra money charged the Club Class must be to make up for this waste.

[KruzeKrazy!]

So it's as if you have traditional dining (same staff, same table) except you can show up whenever you like? I guess that means the table you get will be empty for the entire time you are not eating. If that's how it works, that sounds like a waste of space to me. I think the extra money charged the Club Class must be to make up for this waste.

I would say "bingo!" to that - excluding the other minor CC benefits with their corresponding minor costs.

 

But when folding it all in I would think the inefficiency of the dining operations is what makes up the majority of the internal cost that, when a target margin is applied, drives the upcharge to be what it is.

Edited December 31, 2016 by KruzeKrazy!

[Wichenford Wolf]

Your first number was closer. It looks like there are about 28 Club Class mini's on the grand class ships.

 

I want to add that the people who book Suites do it for good reason. We were offered an upsell to a full suite and tried it out. It is really hard not to book them now because we loved it. The additional space and cabin amenities were nice but to dine at Sabatini's for breakfast without the crowds was amazing. Being able to pay extra to not deal with the crowds for dinner would be a great feature for us. Being able to do it without the cost of a full Suite is a great feature that we wouldn't have a problem paying extra for.

 

I also agree that this is simply paying for a service or TIME. I don't equate it any differently than First Class flights, Paying for TSA Pre or Global Entry to cut the line, Paying extra at amusement parks that have go to the head of the line passes, or any other membership/fee that people pay for services and benefits to shorten their wait time.

 

Patty

 

And don't worry about the inconvenience to those who can't afford it?

[floridalover5623]

Just off got of the Ruby today...and I was in Club Class Dining.

 

It is one section of the Da Vinci dining room that you enter near the Calypso Cove. It is available during breakfast, lunch and dinner.

 

You have the same waitstaff every meal, and the same table. You can come anytime during the dining hours. A few dinners started with amuse-bouche, and there was always one dish that wasn't on the menu which was prepared at a central location by the head waiter. The menu is the same that if offered in the other dining rooms.

 

It was a great suite perk, that being said not all suite guests used Club Class Dining. There are 26 suites on the Ruby and at no time were there more than 12 tables being used.

 

I have never liked anytime dining so I always get early dining times. Although it was nice arriving when we wanted I wouldn't pay more for Club Class Dining because I am fine with a set dining time.

 

I didn't notice the lines for anytime dining to be any worse than they always have been.

 

How could you have since you were in Club Class? They hand out beepers to those waiting to eat so you never really know how long the people actually were waiting before getting called.

If you really wanted to know the wait time for those just arriving you could have asked the hostess when leaving the restaurant although her answer might not have been all that accurate.