Tipping (sorry!)

[BlueRiband]

A hypothetical situation. A couple book a cruise and inbetween paying and sailing something happens that blows their budget to smithereens. what do they do?....And then suddenly they realise that a saving can be made by stopping the gratuities...

 

What do you say to this couple? Tell them their circumstances are unfortunate but that they shouldn't 'take it out' on the crew.

 

I thought of another hypothetical situation. A Filipino cabin steward wires money home for his wife and child each week. Then one week he has to tell her he is sending less because two of his cabins removed gratuities and didn't give him any cash. What do you say to this crew member? Tell him that his circumstance is unfortunate but these passengers were entirely within their right to remove them?

[insanemagnet]

I thought of another hypothetical situation. A Filipino cabin steward wires money home for his wife and child each week. Then one week he has to tell her he is sending less because two of his cabins removed gratuities and didn't give him any cash. What do you say to this crew member? Tell him that his circumstance is unfortunate but these passengers were entirely within their right to remove them?

 

A reasonable question, but do you know for certain the cabin steward directly receives a relevant proportion of the cabins they service, rather than the service charges being pooled across the ship before being distributed?

 

I am not suggesting it makes it right, but in relation to your scenario the impact of the two non paying cabins would be diluted across hundreds of staff and would not just fall on one.

[Ergates The Ant]

I thought of another hypothetical situation. A Filipino cabin steward wires money home for his wife and child each week. Then one week he has to tell her he is sending less because two of his cabins removed gratuities and didn't give him any cash. What do you say to this crew member? Tell him that his circumstance is unfortunate but these passengers were entirely within their right to remove them?

Another good reason to properly include the staff wages into the cruise fare.

It is cruel and demeaning to do anything else. The cruise line exploit their staff by making gratuities part of their pay, and leave their staff deliberately vulnerable by having to make these gratuities discretionary for tax reasons.

If you are going to pay the gratuities anyway, as most posters on here say they will, include it in the fare, and insist the managers on the ships take responsibility for the level of service provided, instead of foisting this off on the passengers.

[balf]

It would be helpful, given that passengers are asked to become party to the staff remuneration, if Cunard would reveal all about how the system works. Without that info we can only guess, but is it not likely that any shortfall in tip revenue is made up by Cunard.

 

David

[majortom10]

It would be helpful, given that passengers are asked to become party to the staff remuneration, if Cunard would reveal all about how the system works. Without that info we can only guess, but is it not likely that any shortfall in tip revenue is made up by Cunard.

 

David

 

I know for a fact that all Carnival UK cruise lines and possibly all of their ships all over the world have a minimum guarantee of pay written into their contract and if it is not reached through a shortfall of gratuities that they make up the difference that is why it is in their interests that all cruisers pay gratuities so they don't have to do this and therefore make more profit.

[buchhalm]

Sugar! I should NOT have started this thread. ☺

But since it has gone this direction I give my humble opinion as well.

Cunard (or any cruise line for that matter) could just build the damn charge into the fare. Or at least give you the option to pre pay gratuities upon booking. I like that system. And so far we have always tipped extra on top for some key contact staff. I don't care for an extra $50 or $100 on a 2-week cruise.

Charging tips on board is just a hassle that eats up credit card limits during the holiday (vacation).

Of course they love to advertise a lower fare and then slug you with a "discretionary " fee. They call it ghat, because they cant acvertise an unrealistic price. I would love to know how many customers actually have the nerve to remove the tip.

That's why they make you front up to some office to do that. Bullying tactic.

[BlueRiband]

Sugar! I should NOT have started this thread. ☺

But since it has gone this direction I give my humble opinion as well.

Cunard (or any cruise line for that matter) could just build the damn charge into the fare. Or at least give you the option to pre pay gratuities upon booking. I like that system. And so far we have always tipped extra on top for some key contact staff. I don't care for an extra $50 or $100 on a 2-week cruise.

Charging tips on board is just a hassle that eats up credit card limits during the holiday (vacation).

Of course they love to advertise a lower fare and then slug you with a "discretionary " fee. They call it ghat, because they cant acvertise an unrealistic price. I would love to know how many customers actually have the nerve to remove the tip.

That's why they make you front up to some office to do that. Bullying tactic.

 

I really wish you had not either, as tipping threads here are the No. 1 hot button issue followed by dress codes and smoking. (I think you already knew that as you added "sorry" in the title.)

 

Raising crew wages and rolling everything into the fare is not that simple. The moment Cunard does so they immediately look much more expensive than their competitors. Had Cunard kept its ships registered in the UK that would have to have happened. Rather than cheer that Cunard had done the right thing for its crew, passengers instead would defect to a Cunard competitor because they were now "too expensive".

 

While there are lines that are "all inclusive", they are marketing to a much more affluent demographic. These are all-suite, all-concierge accommodations. On Regent, Silversea, or Seabourn one would not have these hypothetical poor couples whose finances were now shattered because they supposedly didn't know they were expected to pay daily gratuities. They would not have been able to afford to book. Cunard however is a mass market line with plenty of people looking for "deals" to be able to afford it. The vast majority of passengers are in standard Britannia accommodations. Cunard could not shift to this all-inclusive model. Their ships are not built with the type of accommodations that people willing to pay these fares would accept.

Edited June 5, 2017 by BlueRiband

[Underwatr]

I know for a fact that all Carnival UK cruise lines and possibly all of their ships all over the world have a minimum guarantee of pay written into their contract and if it is not reached through a shortfall of gratuities that they make up the difference that is why it is in their interests that all cruisers pay gratuities so they don't have to do this and therefore make more profit.

I assume, as you should, that the typical monthly pay with tips is noticeably higher than the line's guaranteed salary. Don't assume that you can safely delete your gratuity and the line will make up the difference.

[majortom10]

I assume, as you should, that the typical monthly pay with tips is noticeably higher than the line's guaranteed salary. Don't assume that you can safely delete your gratuity and the line will make up the difference.

 

I never assumed or said anything on the line that I was insinuating I was going to safely delete my gratuities I just stated fact with regarding their contracts that they have agreed and signed.

[Ergates The Ant]

Maybe this is one for the Trade Descriptions Act? If the gratuities are truly discretionary, and therefore not part of the fare, and not required to be included in the price quoted, then maybe we should all remove them!

 

I have never done so in the past, and have just accepted that tipping a la US style ( i.e. Withholding staff pay and calling it a tip) is part and parcel of the system.

But why? I tip in the States because I understand how it works there, even if I think it is callous and cheap.

But most cruise ships are not American. And when they cruise out of the UK, a high proportion of the passengers are Brits, and used to paying our way, and occasionally tipping on top of that if we feel it is warranted.

 

And I'm sure I'm not the only cruiser with the intelligence to do proper price comparisons, and add the extras onto the overall cruise cost. Maybe US cruisers don't bother, because they are used to getting to the checkout with an item and having tax etc added on.

But in the UK, we have been accustomed for years to seeing the price you actually pay clearly displayed up front. It is the law. And I think it is fair and right, and I don't see why cruise companies should show such disrespect as to foist what would be considered underhand practices on UK customers.

NCL have gone down the right route with their all inclusive UK prices. I looked at booking another cruise with them this summer and the cruise I fancied is sold out. Not a big indicator that their prices are too high. And several cruise lines have sorted out their pricing in Australia to everyone's satisfaction.

Include gratuities in all UK cruise prices, let the US carry on with what they prefer ( and can stop calling us cheap!) we will know up front what we are paying, the staff will get treated with respect by being paid reliably and consistently, and everybody should be happy.

Sorry, rant over!

[insanemagnet]

 

While there are lines that are "all inclusive", they are marketing to a much more affluent demographic.

 

NCL is now "all inclusive" (tips and drinks) when booked through a UK or European website, and they are certainly not marketing to a more affluent demographic.

[majortom10]

NCL is now "all inclusive" (tips and drinks) when booked through a UK or European website, and they are certainly not marketing to a more affluent demographic.

 

I am sure that it is being closely monitored by P&O management more so than Cunard because almost 100% of cruisers on P&O are British unlike Cunard.

[majortom10]

Never understood the ideology of pre paying gratuities like you can on many cruise lines. The idea of gratuities/tips is a reward for good service and for the life of me cannot see the logic when you don't know how good a service you will receive.

[insanemagnet]

I am sure that it is being closely monitored by P&O management more so than Cunard because almost 100% of cruisers on P&O are British unlike Cunard.

 

But the interesting thing with NCL is book a cruise through a UK/European website and it is "all inclusive" (tips/drinks), book the same cruise through the American website and it is not. The American site may be offering a free drink promotion, but the daily service charge is not included and they even have to pay a service charge on their free drinks.

 

So possibly more relevant to Cunard with its mix of customers than P&O.

[Ergates The Ant]

Never understood the ideology of pre paying gratuities like you can on many cruise lines. The idea of gratuities/tips is a reward for good service and for the life of me cannot see the logic when you don't know how good a service you will receive.

 

That us because we in the UK understand gratuities or tips to be a reward for good service, over and above the service staff pay.

In the US, service staff routinely have part of their pay given directly by the customer in the form of tips and not via their employer as they are in the UK. So it isn't a tip as we understand it, just making up the pay that a UK employee would have been entitled to as part of their contract. This practice has been adopted by most cruise lines.

I find it easier to think of the gratuity as part of the fare, and it's therefore easier to prepay it and get it out of the way. I'm afraid that I then do what many Americans do, and don't tip any extra! In UK restaurants, I often give a small tip as a reward if the service has been pleasing, but this is on top of the waiting staff actually being paid. Unlike the unfortunate service staff on cruise ships and in restaurants in many US states.

[ToadOfToadHall]

I didn't realise there's a difference in the US for tipped workers regarding the minimum wage, so I stand corrected regarding the level of said wage then.

[keithm]

I know, I know... Another @$/!% gratuities question.

 

 

Most cruise lines will let you pre-pay tips at the time of booking. I like that, as it is out of the way. A few times I got a deal that included tips.

All cruise lines seem to say something like "x $ per DAY are charged/added to your account ". Should that not be "per NIGHT ".

Surely one would not be charged a day of gratuities when they kick you off the ship at 08.30...

Hmmmmmm

We just leave on the auto tip. We also tip extra at the end of each cruise. We go by the "Berlitz guide to cruise ships & cruising" to set our final tip at the end of the cruise. Of course quality of service(which has always been tops)sets the final amount. There are those who feel that "Carnivore Corp"(sorry!)should set the fair prevailing wages. Unfortunately they don't. So we do our part to help the staff. Those who feel it's not "their" problem, well I can't truly say how I feel about them, to avoid censorship. I'll let it go at that!

Edited June 5, 2017 by keithm
grammar

[ToadOfToadHall]

Raising crew wages and rolling everything into the fare is not that simple. The moment Cunard does so they immediately look much more expensive than their competitors. Had Cunard kept its ships registered in the UK that would have to have happened. Rather than cheer that Cunard had done the right thing for its crew, passengers instead would defect to a Cunard competitor because they were now "too expensive".

 

I suspect that is true. People look at the headline price and not the total price.

 

Using my upcoming cruise in a few weeks, it would add about 7% to the overall up front cost. The final figure is exactly the same of course.

Edited June 5, 2017 by ToadOfToadHall

[ToadOfToadHall]

And what about the 15% on drinks ? Now that truly is a farce. You can't take it off, so why say a pint is say $5.00 + 15% ? Just say its's $5.75.

 

Oddly, doing this actually annoys a lot of people more (certainly in the UK); I've seen on other forums people playing hell about 15% on the drinks price.

[majortom10]

That us because we in the UK understand gratuities or tips to be a reward for good service, over and above the service staff pay.

In the US, service staff routinely have part of their pay given directly by the customer in the form of tips and not via their employer as they are in the UK. So it isn't a tip as we understand it, just making up the pay that a UK employee would have been entitled to as part of their contract. This practice has been adopted by most cruise lines.

I find it easier to think of the gratuity as part of the fare, and it's therefore easier to prepay it and get it out of the way. I'm afraid that I then do what many Americans do, and don't tip any extra! In UK restaurants, I often give a small tip as a reward if the service has been pleasing, but this is on top of the waiting staff actually being paid. Unlike the unfortunate service staff on cruise ships and in restaurants in many US states.

 

Sorry but I would never dream of pre paying gratuities whatever anyone else does I always and will consider to tip as a reward for good service. Also feel you are falling in the trap of those "unfortunate staff" on cruise ships. Google and look on Wikipedia for average wages in countries where many of the staff live and it makes them very well off. We only recently spoke to a waiter on P&O and he was sending home for his family including his parents putting his children through university and said if he hoped to carry on working for P&O for 10 yrs he would be set up for life and hoped to open his own restaurant. Like I have said they are not as poor as cruisers are led to believe because it suits the cruise line that cruisers pay gratuities so they can give them lower wages.

[BlueRiband]

NCL is now "all inclusive" (tips and drinks) when booked through a UK or European website, and they are certainly not marketing to a more affluent demographic.

 

In the US that's not the case with NCL. They call it a daily "service charge" and it can no longer be removed on board. To request removal of the daily service charge one has to get a form from their purser, fill it out, and state what was the specific service failure and how was it not resolved. It than has to be imaged and emailed to a shore side office. (Imagine that thread when their new policy was announced! Those who routinely stiff the crew really "outed" themselves!)

[keithm]

In the US that's not the case with NCL. They call it a daily "service charge" and it can no longer be removed on board. To request removal of the daily service charge one has to get a form from their purser, fill it out, and state what was the specific service failure and how was it not resolved. It than has to be imaged and emailed to a shore side office. (Imagine that thread when their new policy was announced! Those who routinely stiff the crew really "outed" themselves!)

Should be this way across ALL cruise lines. Let the "pips" squeak when they can no longer come up with a valid reason to screw over the hard working staff who generally take great care of ALL of US!

[davecttr]

And what about the 15% on drinks ? Now that truly is a farce. You can't take it off, so why say a pint is say $5.00 + 15% ? Just say its's $5.75.

 

Oddly, doing this actually annoys a lot of people more (certainly in the UK); I've seen on other forums people playing hell about 15% on the drinks price.

 

P&O solved this problem by removing the service charge from the price of the drinks. The price on the menu is the price you pay. Talking to staff indicates that the charge is still there but invisible to customers. My other main cruise line, Thomson (soon to be TUI) includes tips in the fare, this works well as the staff are happy and efficient as they get a fair salary plus they get to keep any monies handed over as a reward for exceptional service. True tipping as the British see it.

[insanemagnet]

In the US that's not the case with NCL.

 

I understand that (and incidentally I thought sending in a form was likely to increase the number of people removing the charge, as you no longer have to have a face to face discussion).

 

What I thought was interesting was they had retained 'tips' aka daily service charge for American customers for whom tipping substantial amounts is an accepted culture.

 

However for UK and European customers for whom tipping (outside the cruise ship scenario) is either a small amount or simply doesn't happen.

 

Although tipping on cruise ships has traditionally occurred, if like NCL you are attracting new UK and European customers who have never cruised and have not 'bought into' the tradition then you run into a problem.

 

So I thought it interesting they had split their tipping policy. Companies like NCL (and Cunard) who have a mix of nationalities booking have always had different base fare prices depending which website you book, so not that much of a problem introducing this.

[balf]

Should be this way across ALL cruise lines. Let the "pips" squeak when they can no longer come up with a valid reason to screw over the hard working staff who generally take great care of ALL of US!

 

So why don't they make this "service charge" mandatory and then there would be no need for the charade. It's either mandatory or voluntary, and assuming it's the latter they have no reason to withhold a refund of a charge the customer does not wish to pay regardless of the reasons.

 

David