Tipping (sorry!)

[BlueRiband]

I've heard this before and I don't believe it. The cruising public would be pretty stupid if they could not work out the difference in value between a no tips cruise and one where tips were extra. The only ones to lose out would be the passengers who don't pay tips. The ones who are, under the present system stiffing the rest of us.

 

David

 

I have to disagree with you because mass market cruise lines use competitive pricing. A fare of $1999 is only one dollar cheaper than $2000 but it immediately gives the appearance of being under $2000. If for example Cunard is charging $2080 (gratuities included) but HAL is charging $1999 (gratuities extra) which one is going to get attention first? I've read of people canceling and re-booking over $20! I asked a poster why she would go through that trouble over $20. Her response? "Hey, that's two drinks!"

[keithm]

We're on the Queen Elizabeth for the 29 nights trip to San Francisco and DH has just worked out how much the cost of tipping will be - in the region of £500. We believe in leaving the auto tips on, the crew work hard and deserve it BUT for reasons beyond our control our finances are suddenly being 'squeezed' and £500 is looking a lot of money.

 

If things don't improve he wants to stop the gratuities and just tip those people we see face to face, ie the cabin steward, and those who serve us in the MDR.

 

Neither of us feel comfortable with this and it is still a very much 'maybe scenario'. However if this is the case, at what point do we tell Guest Services of our decision and how much is a reasonable amount to tip?

 

Really hope it doesn't come to this but we need to look at all angles. Thanks in advance for any helpful and non-judgemental comments.

I look at it this way: If you are able to AFFORD a 29 day cruise you can AFFORD to leave on the gratuity. Carnivore Corp. does NOT make up what pax short the gratuity by. You'll need to cut corners elsewhere. Eliminate an excursion or 2. Skip a few Veranda nights. Skip a few drinks. Sorry, if it's not sympathetic. I just get very annoyed a pax trying to come up with whatever excuse they can to short the staff. So please DO the right thing!

[luckymal]

Anybody any knowledge what Waiters or Stewards earn? If so it could solve a lot of questions.

[majortom10]

I look at it this way: If you are able to AFFORD a 29 day cruise you can AFFORD to leave on the gratuity. Carnivore Corp. does NOT make up what pax short the gratuity by. You'll need to cut corners elsewhere. Eliminate an excursion or 2. Skip a few Veranda nights. Skip a few drinks. Sorry, if it's not sympathetic. I just get very annoyed a pax trying to come up with whatever excuse they can to short the staff. So please DO the right thing!

 

What a silly response "if you are able to afford a 29day cruise you can afford to leave a gratuity" and sorry but you are wrong that the staffs wages are not made up by Cunard(Carnival) if they do not reach the level agreed in staffs contracts due to removal of gratuities because they are. It isn't just the daily gratuities and the 15% but the tips that some leave for nearly everything the staff do. Skip a few excursions and not have a good holiday just so you can give an extortionate amount of money to staff I do not think so. If staff are that poorly paid then it is up to them to sort out with Cunard(Carnival) directly and not expect cruisers to do less excursions, no visits to Verandah or drinks just to give staff money.

[ToadOfToadHall]

I just get very annoyed a pax trying to come up with whatever excuse they can to short the staff. So please DO the right thing!

 

You keep coming up with this total nonsense and I've noted you have said before you work in/run a hospitality business.

 

And your standard line is that customers not tipping is "stiffing the staff". Has it never occurred to you that it is you that are "stiffing your staff" by not paying them a decent wage ? No, it clearly has not.

[majortom10]

Anybody any knowledge what Waiters or Stewards earn? If so it could solve a lot of questions.

 

Compared to what they earn if they worked in the country they originate from that is why they work away from home for such long contracts because it is worth it financially. We got chatting to a waiter who we had met before on other cruises and he said he was sending money home to put his children through uni and also provided for his family and his plan was to work on cruise ships for 10yrs then he would have enough money to open his own restaurant and would be set up for life.

[ToadOfToadHall]

I look at it this way: If you are able to AFFORD a 29 day cruise you can AFFORD to leave on the gratuity.

 

How about this argument instead ? Cunard (etc) are clearly making a nice profit (fair enough), so they can AFFORD to pay their staff. How about looking at it the other way round for a change ?

[keithm]

How about this argument instead ? Cunard (etc) are clearly making a nice profit (fair enough), so they can AFFORD to pay their staff. How about looking at it the other way round for a change ?

Well, until Cunard changes their position, if you keep the tips, then you ARE screwing the staff. Simple as that. Yes, I'd like to see the gratuity as an no removable "service charge". Until that time however, my feelings stand.

[keithm]

Compared to what they earn if they worked in the country they originate from that is why they work away from home for such long contracts because it is worth it financially. We got chatting to a waiter who we had met before on other cruises and he said he was sending money home to put his children through uni and also provided for his family and his plan was to work on cruise ships for 10yrs then he would have enough money to open his own restaurant and would be set up for life.

Ever bother to do a little research to see what percentage of restaurants fail in the first 2 years?? I'd hardly say "set for life!!"

[ToadOfToadHall]

Ever bother to do a little research to see what percentage of restaurants fail in the first 2 years?? I'd hardly say "set for life!!"

 

What's that got to do with anything ? If the person has enough money for a project (restaurant in this case), and that project fails, the fact remains they still had enough money at the outset. They fact that the business failed in neither here nor there.

[ToadOfToadHall]

Yes, I'd like to see the gratuity as an no removable "service charge".

 

I've already paid a "service charge". It called the FARE for the cruise.

[insanemagnet]

The moment Cunard or any other cruise line is the first to adopt this "all in" pricing policy they immediately look more expensive than their competitors. And they immediately lose business to those competitors.

 

Well it will be interesting to see if NCL lose business, because since this summer all the cruises they sell through their European websites are 'tips included'.

[babs135]

I look at it this way: If you are able to AFFORD a 29 day cruise you can AFFORD to leave on the gratuity. Carnivore Corp. does NOT make up what pax short the gratuity by. You'll need to cut corners elsewhere. Eliminate an excursion or 2. Skip a few Veranda nights. Skip a few drinks. Sorry, if it's not sympathetic. I just get very annoyed a pax trying to come up with whatever excuse they can to short the staff. So please DO the right thing!

 

 

YOU have no right how to tell me how to spend my money. I have said right from the beginning that we will be paying gratuities, although possibly at a slightly reduced rate. AND if we wish to take excursions we will do so; similarly if we wish to have a drink we will do so.

[balf]

Well, until Cunard changes their position, if you keep the tips, then you ARE screwing the staff. Simple as that. Yes, I'd like to see the gratuity as an no removable "service charge". Until that time however, my feelings stand.

 

You know, your attitude has given me an idea. I'll stop paying the auto tips and you can pay them for me. That way there will be no loss to the staff and you won't get annoyed any more.

 

I'll let you know.

 

David.

[Tatka]

We just finished our first cruise with Cunard.

We loved service even though it was strange that neither state room attendant nor MDR waiter didn't introduce themselves. Service was more than adequate. We left an additional tip for our stateroom attendant even though we don't usually do this. Of course we didn't remove autocharged gratuity.

[Pennbank]

You know, your attitude has given me an idea. I'll stop paying the auto tips and you can pay them for me. That way there will be no loss to the staff and you won't get annoyed any more.

 

I'll let you know.

 

David.

 

That is exactly the way I m thinking . The Way to go

You keep auto tips on, now called SERVICE CHARGE and tip extra/ why?

The company "Cunard" seem to be withdrawing quite a bit of luxuries for the customer, so now is the time to make a stance. Withdraw auto tips and give them personally split to the Table waiter and your Steward/ess. Let the company sort it. The Bar staff are happy with their 15% so thats them sorted. Why should I worry on my vacation that the company are not paying the staff enough. No one worried about me when I was working what my wage was neither did I receive tips. It was no ones business.

I am happy on board as I have tipped.

For those that have money and there are a few on this forum that like to brag about their wealth, Well good for you. Keep it up and support the not so well off Cunarders. However I have found in life that the really rich do not spend, but actually take from everyone else.!

Edited July 9, 2017 by Pennbank

[BlueRiband]

YOU have no right how to tell me how to spend my money. I have said right from the beginning that we will be paying gratuities, although possibly at a slightly reduced rate. AND if we wish to take excursions we will do so; similarly if we wish to have a drink we will do so.

 

Completely disagree with that statement. All forum regulars by now know that gratuities are charged in addition to the fare. Unless and until the pay system on board Cunard ships is changed then gratuities will remain part of the crew compensation. To remove them and therefore still the staff may indeed be entirely legal...but it's not moral.

 

For those who say they would rather tip individually that's all well and noble. Unfortunately too many of your fellow cruises would "forget" to leave any. (Dining in the buffet on the last night and leaving the cabin very early on the last morning being the favorite tactics.) Thus, by the late 1980s all mass market lines instituted the auto gratuity.

 

"It's the company's responsibility to properly pay the staff and not mine to pay extra to subsidize that pay" is another argument. Cunard could have left its ships registered in the UK where the Equality Act 2010 would apply to the crew. But if they read these tipping treads they already knew that the passengers complaining about gratuities surely were NOT going to pay the fares to support those wages.

[keithm]

Completely disagree with that statement. All forum regulars by now know that gratuities are charged in addition to the fare. Unless and until the pay system on board Cunard ships is changed then gratuities will remain part of the crew compensation. To remove them and therefore still the staff may indeed be entirely legal...but it's not moral.

 

For those who say they would rather tip individually that's all well and noble. Unfortunately too many of your fellow cruises would "forget" to leave any. (Dining in the buffet on the last night and leaving the cabin very early on the last morning being the favorite tactics.) Thus, by the late 1980s all mass market lines instituted the auto gratuity.

 

"It's the company's responsibility to properly pay the staff and not mine to pay extra to subsidize that pay" is another argument. Cunard could have left its ships registered in the UK where the Equality Act 2010 would apply to the crew. But if they read these tipping treads they already knew that the passengers complaining about gratuities surely were NOT going to pay the fares to support those wages.

Thank you! It's obvious the "grousers" here are the ones most likely to stiff the hard working people that make these voyages so wonderful.

[LMaxwell]

A business owners whose own livelihood depends on staff paid a minimum and offset by tipping cannot be seen as impartial. And though you hit home a point or two you lose credibility by going after people with name calling. Stick with your message and you will do better

 

Does Cunard have a children's rate under 12 years of age? If booking is made in US ar the charges in USD or Euro, etc.?

[Salacia]

Indeed yes, someone's rate of pay is between them and their employer.

 

But you do not appear to be correct regarding US minimum wage. It varies by state, the lowest is Wyoming at $5.15 (£4) and the highest is DC at $11.50 (£8.90). The most common is around $7.50 (£5.80). So it's not anywhere near $2.

 

Right, it's no where near two bucks an hour.

 

Minimum wage in the US is a complex issue, and while it varies by state, the minimum wage also varies depending on full or part time employment, tipped wages, etc.

 

I live in NY, and here is the minimum wage scale laws: https://www.ny.gov/new-york-states-minimum-wage/new-york-states-minimum-wage

 

Pertaining to US minimum wages in general, this might be of interest:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_States

 

Frankly, I don't understand how US wages are germaine to the wages paid on Cunard ships.

.

[insanemagnet]

Thank you! It's obvious the "grousers" here are the ones most likely to stiff the hard working people that make these voyages so wonderful.

True, but their ability to "stiff" the crew is created solely by Cunard.

 

So if you think the 'stiffers' are immoral and selfish in their actions, that must also apply to Cunard who facilitate them.

[Squat]

What a difficult subject... I come from a country where tipping is not usual. In Restaurants or taxis you may round up the figure but you are not obliged to.

 

On the cruise ship I always keep the automatic "service charge" on and expect a good service. Wherever I come across staff who go the extra mile, I am happy to tipp them additionally. I know that many people say give them on the first day a good tipp and you will get a great service. But I see it the other way round. Give me a great service and I will tipp you additiionally.

 

On the last day on QV last year all my table mates (all British) came with envelopes and it was somehow a big thing giving them to the staff. I just had some Dollar bills which I unspectacularly gave to the people. And all the time I was wondering, how much would have been the right amount? I wish I could have seen into those envelopes...

 

I did not tipp my butler additionally to the "service charge", because he was unhelpful and at some point also very unprofessional, even rude. On the other hand the assistant butler was just fantastic! Helped me basically each day into my evening dresses in an absolut fantastic and friendly way. I gave her what I think a good extra tipp (20 dollars every second or third day). I gave her that tipp from my heart, as I had the feeling she did not help me because she had to, but because she liked to.

 

If only the subject tipping would be more clear....

[babs135]

Thank you! It's obvious the "grousers" here are the ones most likely to stiff the hard working people that make these voyages so wonderful.

 

I assume you include me amongst the 'grousers'? We have been extremely fortunate over the years to have been able to cruise many times, not all with Cunard, and we have never ever 'stiffed the hard working people' as you so elegantly put it. In fact we have even tipped extra for good service.

 

As I've said before you and others here don't know our situation so can't truly comment. If you expect me to 'bare my soul and tell all' then you are going to be disappointed. Our 'problems' are ours and nobody else's. We will enjoy our cruise and I promise you this - we will not 'stiff the hard working people' which is where this post started.

[BlueRiband]

...On the cruise ship I always keep the automatic "service charge" on and expect a good service. Wherever I come across staff who go the extra mile, I am happy to tip them additionally. I know that many people say give them on the first day a good tip and you will get a great service. But I see it the other way round. Give me a great service and I will tip you additionally.....

 

Same here. I leave the auto gratuity on and tip additionally on the last day to those who give great service. If somebody appears to have a bad attitude or doesn't go beyond what is required then no extra tip. I'd have to get terrible service from multiple crew members in order to remove auto gratuities. (Should such a scenario happen it would be my last Cunard sailing anyway.)

 

 

However I do find that small envelopes are useful and pack a few. They're not a showy as the business size ones and can be passed more discretely. The amount of money inside can be varied according to the crew member and I'm not handling a wad of bills. But that's what works for me.

[keithm]

True, but their ability to "stiff" the crew is created solely by Cunard.

 

So if you think the 'stiffers' are immoral and selfish in their actions, that must also apply to Cunard who facilitate them.

Absolutely! Do remember that if the wages were brought up to the standard of the "true" luxury lines, then I think Cunard would lose a lot of pax as well.