BostonPaul Posted December 3, 2017 #1 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Friends of ours are going on a Viking River cruise in Russia next year and my husband and I are considering joining them. My biggest concern is how we will be treated as a gay couple, not on the ship, but on shore. Does anyone have any experience on being in Russia on a cruise as an LGBT person? Given what I see on the news I am wondering... Thanks! Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkSeattle Posted December 4, 2017 #2 Share Posted December 4, 2017 I’ve spent 5 weeks in Russia, but too long ago to comment on the current situation other than giving my impressions. Unless you get an independent travel visa, my understanding is that your visas will be valid just as part of a guided tour when off of the ship, so I wouldn’t worry too much in that case, but would avoid PDA, even though this was common among straight men when I was there. I’m a bit mixed in my opinion of Russia right now, but some sites like the Hermitage are bucket list sort of opportunities. I still remember standing in awe inches away from the unprotected DaVinci’s Madonna and Child. I’d probably stay away from independent excursions into the gay nightlife, but would personally be ok during the day, but wouldn’t recommend that if you don’t know some Russian and can navigate the metros independently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted December 10, 2017 #3 Share Posted December 10, 2017 (edited) I’m a bit mixed in my opinion of Russia right now, but some sites like the Hermitage are bucket list sort of opportunities. A bit mixed? It's a murderous kleptocracy run by a tyrant with huge public support, rife with antigay legislation and homophobic thuggery, a government that interfered in our electoral system to promote the election of the most anti-queer Administration in many years, all in concert with a population that's overwhelmingly homophobic and a church that makes the Pope look like Armistead Maupin. So what's the on-the-other-hand? Much as I'd like to finally visit the Hermitage, there are many other museums worldwide where I can spend my soon-to-be-rubles instead. Edited December 10, 2017 by shepp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CalgaryMac Posted December 10, 2017 #4 Share Posted December 10, 2017 As tourists we have choices. If you choose to visit Russia then you are under their laws and you might find that your own government will have difficulty intervening on your behalf. The fact that the LGBTQ2 community in Russia is attacked by the government and religion is enough for me to stay away. I don't want any of my tourist dollar to find its way to agencies or organizations who would use the income to attack LGBTQ2. Russia has no free elections, no independent courts or justice, and no free press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BostonPaul Posted December 10, 2017 Author #5 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Thanks all. I am hesitant, hoping someone with river cruise experience would see this. Happy sails! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarEagle76 Posted December 11, 2017 #6 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Paul, we did this cruise on Viking in 2006 so it has been awhile, and we also went back to Russia in 2008 on Princess. We never felt uncomfortable or singled out and on the Viking cruise in Russia we were with a larger group of people 80% of the time when on tour. That said, we also didn’t do anything to bring attention to ourselves either. Of course much has happened in Russia since then, but if the opportunity arose today, we’d do it again. We’ve been on seven Viking River cruises and have always been treated with respect and had a wonderful time on all of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pokerguy90 Posted December 11, 2017 #7 Share Posted December 11, 2017 A bit mixed? It's a murderous kleptocracy run by a tyrant with huge public support, rife with antigay legislation and homophobic thuggery, a government that interfered in our electoral system to promote the election of the most anti-queer Administration in many years, all in concert with a population that's overwhelmingly homophobic and a church that makes the Pope look like Armistead Maupin. So what's the on-the-other-hand? Much as I'd like to finally visit the Hermitage, there are many other museums worldwide where I can spend my soon-to-be-rubles instead. Geeezzz, don’t hold back. Say whats on your mind... Sent from my Timex Sinclair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wripro Posted December 11, 2017 #8 Share Posted December 11, 2017 Thanks all. I am hesitant, hoping someone with river cruise experience would see this.Happy sails! Perhaps you should try posting on the river cruise board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tv24 Posted December 19, 2017 #9 Share Posted December 19, 2017 We're not goin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted December 20, 2017 #10 Share Posted December 20, 2017 (edited) A bit mixed? It's a murderous kleptocracy run by a tyrant with huge public support, rife with antigay legislation and homophobic thuggery, a government that interfered in our electoral system to promote the election of the most anti-queer Administration in many years, all in concert with a population that's overwhelmingly homophobic and a church that makes the Pope look like Armistead Maupin. So what's the on-the-other-hand? Much as I'd like to finally visit the Hermitage, there are many other museums worldwide where I can spend my soon-to-be-rubles instead. Oh my God! Enough about Trump! Oh, sorry it was about Putin! Sick humor aside, I agree. I'd rather spend my $$ elsewhere. Same with Jamaica. We try to avoid cruises to that island. If, unfortunately our cruise uses that S#######hole as a stop, it will be a full spa day for us. Edited December 20, 2017 by keithm additions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithm Posted December 20, 2017 #11 Share Posted December 20, 2017 Geeezzz, don’t hold back. Say whats on your mind... Sent from my Timex Sinclair Shepp & I have argued at times in the past(pretty distant)I certainly trust his wisdom on issues like this. Why spend our money on places that treat us like second class people at best & would easily murder us at worst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimiq Posted December 22, 2017 #12 Share Posted December 22, 2017 To me it’s very simple...I do not go to a place I’m not welcomed. Why give my money to people who doesn’t want it. Russia was and is on my bucket list of course but for now it will have to wait. Sea ya Eric Envoyé de mon iPad en utilisant Forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishelleMcc Posted December 22, 2017 #13 Share Posted December 22, 2017 I understand your concerns but I think that if you stay in groups and don't exhibit PDA you should be okay. We won a trip to China a few years ago and had MAJOR concerns! We did a lot of research and hired private tours and drivers to ensure our safety. We had a great time and never felt unsafe! So, in hindsight, we may have gone overboard (pun intended! Ha!) So don't engage in any risky behaviors or activities (true for straights too!) and have a blast!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmoger Posted December 22, 2017 #14 Share Posted December 22, 2017 A bit mixed? It's a murderous kleptocracy run by a tyrant with huge public support, rife with antigay legislation and homophobic thuggery, a government that interfered in our electoral system to promote the election of the most anti-queer Administration in many years, all in concert with a population that's overwhelmingly homophobic and a church that makes the Pope look like Armistead Maupin. So what's the on-the-other-hand? Much as I'd like to finally visit the Hermitage, there are many other museums worldwide where I can spend my soon-to-be-rubles instead. Perfect post Shepp, I feel exactly the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted December 23, 2017 #15 Share Posted December 23, 2017 Shepp & I have argued at times in the past(pretty distant)I certainly trust his wisdom on issues like this. Why spend our money on places that treat us like second class people at best & would easily murder us at worst. That's the first time I've been accused of having wisdom... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ONT-CA Posted April 3, 2018 #16 Share Posted April 3, 2018 A bit mixed? It's a murderous kleptocracy run by a tyrant with huge public support, rife with antigay legislation and homophobic thuggery, a government that interfered in our electoral system to promote the election of the most anti-queer Administration in many years, all in concert with a population that's overwhelmingly homophobic and a church that makes the Pope look like Armistead Maupin. So what's the on-the-other-hand? Much as I'd like to finally visit the Hermitage, there are many other museums worldwide where I can spend my soon-to-be-rubles instead. Not being an native, I thought your opening salvo must have pertained to the United States Of America.... even on a second read. To go to one's eternal rest without having seen the Heritage is self deprivation to the extreme. Even the Armory in the Kremlin, filled with such historical national treasures, was 'awe' personified Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted May 13, 2018 #17 Share Posted May 13, 2018 To go to one's eternal rest without having seen the Heritage is self deprivation to the extreme. Even the Armory in the Kremlin, filled with such historical national treasures, was 'awe' personified I've toured the Taj Mahal by moonlight, spent a week in Angkor, watched penguins in the Falklands, climbed to the Tiger's Nest Monastery in Bhutan, snorkeled in the Galapagos, seen the sun come up from the top of Mount Sinai, `strolled through the souk in Aleppo before it was destroyed, and gone to hundreds and hundreds of museums and palaces. Sorry, but I don't feel particularly self-deprived. And from a Buddhist afterlife perspective, I bet paying money to a tyrant is a lot worse than not seeing some Faberge tchotchkes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wripro Posted May 13, 2018 #18 Share Posted May 13, 2018 I've toured the Taj Mahal by moonlight, spent a week in Angkor, watched penguins in the Falklands, climbed to the Tiger's Nest Monastery in Bhutan, snorkeled in the Galapagos, seen the sun come up from the top of Mount Sinai, `strolled through the souk in Aleppo before it was destroyed, and gone to hundreds and hundreds of museums and palaces. Sorry, but I don't feel particularly self-deprived. And from a Buddhist afterlife perspective, I bet paying money to a tyrant is a lot worse than not seeing some Faberge tchotchkes. Bravo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tv24 Posted May 13, 2018 #19 Share Posted May 13, 2018 i've toured the taj mahal by moonlight, spent a week in angkor, watched penguins in the falklands, climbed to the tiger's nest monastery in bhutan, snorkeled in the galapagos, seen the sun come up from the top of mount sinai, `strolled through the souk in aleppo before it was destroyed, and gone to hundreds and hundreds of museums and palaces. Sorry, but i don't feel particularly self-deprived. And from a buddhist afterlife perspective, i bet paying money to a tyrant is a lot worse than not seeing some faberge tchotchkes. + 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
napoxoguk Posted May 13, 2018 #20 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Well said, but it's kind of painfully obvious that most places you listed have some form of a recent or not too recent history of human rights issues. Except maybe the penguins. So there must be degrees of what you find acceptable, then? What's the cutoff point? :-) But I have to say i'd take sunset with penguins over tchotchkes any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shepp Posted May 13, 2018 #21 Share Posted May 13, 2018 Well said, but it's kind of painfully obvious that most places you listed have some form of a recent or not too recent history of human rights issues. Except maybe the penguins. So there must be degrees of what you find acceptable, then? What's the cutoff point? :-)But I have to say i'd take sunset with penguins over tchotchkes any day. Interesting question, really, where one draws the line. Let's take Bhutan. It's reputed to be Shangri-la and for a country of its size and stature, it takes care of its citizens very well. On the other hand, there are plenty of Nepali migrant workers in the south of the country who are reputedly treated very shabbily indeed. To go or not to go? I was in Syria during the rule of Daddy Assad, which was a horror show albeit not nearly as bad as now. It was part of a longer Egypt-to-Turkey overland which included a trip to the West Bank and Israel's human rights history is rather spotty as well. To go or not to go? I went to Burma during the waning days of the junta, when the boycott was loosening, and tried to spend as little money with the government as possible. Still, some dollars did make it to the junta's hands. To go or not to go? (Though BTW, I'd never go back now.) I went to North and South Carolina on a roller-coaster trip, and they sure don't treat their LGBT citizens all that well. To go or not to go? And, of course, the Argentinians view the Brits who rule the Falklands as international criminals. The penguins are cute, though. It's hard to be a purist and a traveler, I guess. We each draw our own lines. I suppose I just really hate Putin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hejiranyc Posted May 14, 2018 #22 Share Posted May 14, 2018 To this point, I think it's about context too. I think it's one thing to talk about many countries in the world, 30, 20 or even 10 years ago, where LGBT were second class citizens or, at best, content for whatever scraps they could get from the table. Even the U.S. until recently banned openly LGBT citizens from the military and outlawed same sex marriage. And if we're really being honest, the U.S. still lags far behind much of the Western world in terms of legal protections for LGBT. Now, all that being said, in today's climate, after LGBT rights have advanced tremendously from what they were, it is especially unacceptable for regimes that not only discriminate against LGBT, but also aggressively single them out for arrest, humiliation incarceration or even worse. We're talking about Jamaica. Russia. And basically all Arab nations, most countries in Africa, parts of Indonesia, Singapore, etc. When there are so many wonderful parts of the world where I and my queer tourist dollars are welcome, why would I spend two seconds thinking about countries that actively seek out the means toward my demise? Would I love to visit the Hermitage? Sure. But I'm not going to trample all over my principles to get there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f2s Posted June 3, 2018 #23 Share Posted June 3, 2018 I am with you "hejiranyc", I have been to Russia and Burma when I thought the LBGT climate was reasonable and or improving, but to be honest it was and is not improving. All countries see BIG $ in tourism but if the politics of a country stink for LBGT or any other reason or group, LETS NOT GO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hematite153 Posted June 4, 2018 #24 Share Posted June 4, 2018 We're really struggling with this question. We're taking a baltic cruise and are excited by everything but can't figure out what to do with Russia. On the one hand, I don't want to be there and not see it and on the other hand it makes me worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wripro Posted June 4, 2018 #25 Share Posted June 4, 2018 We're really struggling with this question. We're taking a baltic cruise and are excited by everything but can't figure out what to do with Russia. On the one hand, I don't want to be there and not see it and on the other hand it makes me worried. I don't necessarily think there's anything physical to worry about (assuming you behave with decorum.) The only thing I worry about is feeding the economy of a tyrant who would love to see you dead! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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