New ship 2022

[Solent Richard]

Absolutely great news.

 

 

And as a shareholder I couldn't agree more.

 

P&O, aka Carnival, putting their money where their mouth is.

[gadabout60]

I think it will be many many years before all of today's " small" ships will have disappeared completely. The existing ones at the moment will be sold on to other cruise lines so yes we may have to change to another cruise company to still experience & enjoy but at least we will still be able to cruise on cruise ships of a size that we prefer.

 

Unfortunately that may also mean not been able to cruise out of the UK

[Blodwyn]

WeI found Ventura too big,impersonal and disorganised,

Arcadia is just the right size for us- Please P&O build or buy a similar size ship !

[Monorail Orange]

WeI found Ventura too big,impersonal and disorganised,

Arcadia is just the right size for us- Please P&O build or buy a similar size ship !

I agree. I've said it before, they should have built Arcadia a sister.

[Monorail Orange]

The 2020 design looks very similar to AIDAprima.

I can see the similarities.

 

 

The AIDAnova will be an Excellence Class, the same as the two new P&O ships.

[jeanlyon]

I like the medium size ships. I found Azura impersonal, strange layout, noisy and just not for us. So if they get rid of Oriana, Aurora and Arcadia that will be us cruising with other lines like Fred. On Azura, the wait to get back on board in 90 degrees was awful, about 45 minutes. Last year we were in Malta with Fred, and there was a giant MSC ship in. The queue to get on board her looked like about half a mile long. Not for us.

 

The other problem with these giant ships is that they spoil the smaller port for everybody. Dubrovnik, last time, was ruined. There were 5 ships in and we were the smallest. You couldn't move in the town at all. Luckily we were there until late night, so went back over for a drink at 6 and it was lovely.

[DamianG]

Although these new mega-ships won’t suit many ‘traditional’ cruisers (new ships rarely do), I do feel that P&O is doing the right thing for the future success of their brand.

 

We have cruised on all the P&O ships over the past 22 years, other than Arcadia (a situation which will be rectified this year) and the clientele has changed enormously. We were in our early 30’s when we first cruised with P&O on the then 12 month old Oriana. We were younger than 99% of the passengers, most of whom were wealthy retirees. Throughout the cruise, we heard regular moans from people complaining about how they didn’t like this ‘massive’ new ship and how they much preferred Canberra.

 

As most people know, the glory days of gold plated pensions is mostly over, now that it is known that they were never affordable in the first place! Final salary / defined benefit pensions are now almost extinct in the private sector and even the comparatively far better public sector pension schemes are contributory and a little less generous than they used to be. So pensioners of the future will not enjoy the pension incomes of their parents generation and P&O will not be able to rely on this segment of the population to anywhere near the same extent.

 

Add to this the vast increase in the number of cabins that they have to fill. I was looking at the 1996 brochure for our first cruise. It bragged that there were around 45 cruises to choose from that year and the biggest ship was Oriana. Now they have as many cruises as that every few months and Oriana is the smallest ship!

 

Then, finally factor in that cruising is now starting to appeal to all generations and that younger people want bigger resort style ships with all the variety and choice that they offer.

 

Once you consider all the above, the rapidly changing passenger demographic and the fact that bigger ships are more cost efficient to run per passenger (hence why cruises are comparatively cheaper now than when we first cruised), it makes absolute sense for P&O to go in that direction.

 

Do I like it? Not really. We prefer the smaller ships as the overall cruise experience suits us better. But the new ships, particularly Britannia, offer far better facilities and appeal far more to the likes of our adult children. For what it’s worth, we also find that the bigger ships don’t feel as congested as the smaller ships inside on a dull sea day, so there are some other advantages.

 

So, although we would be gutted if the likes of Aurora and Oriana eventually leave the P&O fleet as more and more of the mega-ships are introduced, my business head tells me that if I was the CEO of P&O, I would be doing exactly as they are.

 

Great post, I find myself nodding in agreement with all of this. We started on the original Adonia (sister ship to Oceana) and have been on all the ships except for the later Adonia. We tried Britannia in its maiden season, made the most of it but disliked quite a few things. We gave it another go last year and found it to be much the same so we're back to Azura next year, bit bigger than we like but we had a lovely cruise on her a couple of years ago. Oriana is our favourite but with a young son we can't go on that and though we like Aurora and it is the sister ship somehow it just isn't the same.

On a separate note I was on a final salary pension scheme but like many others the company forced us to switch to a defined benefit scheme. Prior to that they'd been letting staff retire at 55 with no penalties on a final salary scheme until they realised the pot was running out! I wish!

We'll still keep cruising with P&O because it is affordable and we get some nice loyalty benefits so I guess we'll just have to get used to these larger ships.

All the best

Damian

[Monorail Orange]

I do wonder if the Ventura or Azure will eventually become an adults only ship?

[Presto2]

I can see what people are saying and ok we have to move with the times.

 

BUT, which ships are going to sail in to Venice or aren't we going there any more ??? It is obvious that Oceana replaced Ventura with the fly / Med cruises when the size of the ships were limited going in to / out of Venice.

 

I can't see the folks in Venice backing down very soon re the ships sailing nearby (unless they want the place to be destroyed), so what happens when all of these monstrosities are the only ships left?

 

I do hope that they leave some smaller ships for those of us who want to see the sea when we are on a cruise ship. Am now worried that the only smaller ships will belong to the likes of Regent, Oceania, Seabourne and Azamara and we just can't afford them ... unless we only sail every 2 / 3 years ....

[pisces14]

I suppose we are unusual in that we are relatively new cruisers as we've only been cruising for 7 years. We are also retired people but actually are in a fortunate financial position. So we book suites and spend a lot on excursions and on board the ship. We do though only want to cruise on the medium size ships. We will never be enticed on these huge ships. They may appeal to the younger generation who want cheaper cruises but they don't represent what we consider cruising to be about. If P&O get rid of the medium size ships we will be looking elsewhere I'm afraid.

[Denarius]

I agree. I've said it before, they should have built Arcadia a sister.

Carnival have built similar sized ships, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria, both circa 90000 tonnes 2000 passengers, for Cunard. I suspect that they see the future of P&O as pile it high, sell it cheap, with the economies of scale which come with larger ships, and see Cunard as a more up market brand with which people will be prepared to pay more.

[pisces14]

Carnival have built similar sized ships, Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria, both circa 90000 tonnes 2000 passengers, for Cunard. I suspect that they see the future of P&O as pile it high, sell it cheap, with the economies of scale which come with larger ships, and see Cunard as a more up market brand with which people will be prepared to pay more.

 

That's exactly the way I see P&O going. In fact I thought that when they built Britannia.

[Denarius]

I love Britannia and have no objection to big ships in principle. I certainly love the wide range of options they offer as floating resorts. The problem for me is that they limit the type of cruises which can be offered. Currently Britannia's cruises revolve round the Fjords, the Canaries and the larger ports in the Med. Yes there's an occasional visit to The Baltics etc but if there are only these large ships people could would tire of the same old destinations. It's one of the major complaints every year when the new brochure is released and it may be that the new type of cruisers whose money is so avidly sought will feel the same.

It is undoubtedly true that the infrastructure of many smaller ports struggle to cope with the arrival of large shps carrying several thousand passengers. Also there is I believe an increasing local reaction against them because their passengers spend relatively little on shore but dissuade other tourists from visiting whilst they are in port. I feel that eventually we will see large ships increasingly confined to the relatively small number of ports which can adequately cater for them. This will not be of great concern to many of their passengers for whom the floating resort hotel has increasingly become the prime destination and the ports of call a mere diversion. Smaller ports will become the preserve of smaller ships run by smaller, usually more up market, lines which focus on itinerary, food and service rather than onboard entertainment etc. The major operators are already catering for the this market by expanding lines such as Azamara (Royal Carribean) Oceania (NCL) Seabourn (Carnival) plus there are indepenants like Regent, Silversea, Viking and Star Clippers. This polarisation will mean that if you want to sail on a smaller ship visiting smaller ports you will have to pay considerably more for the priviledge.

[Presto2]

Looks like we'll have to enjoy Oceana while we can then ... we certainly don't have the money for the other cruise exclusive cruise lines. Perhaps cruising is a victim of its own success ...................

[snaefell]

Curious how things change,I remember reading an article around the time that Britannia was launched which stated that if they(P&O) knew how the cruise market would go they never would have ordered a ship as big as Britannia,the inference being that the craze for cruising,certainly in the UK,seemed to be on the downward direction with other cruise lines diverting their ships elsewhere,here we are just a few years down the line & more even bigger ships are on the way!

[jeanlyon]

Yes it does really depend on why someone cruises. We like to be on a ship (a liner type) not a resort in itself that happens to move. And I'm not sure what the person above meant about P&O going like Cunard. A 90,000 ton ship is small compared to the huge things that P&O are ordering.

[molecrochip]

BUT, which ships are going to sail in to Venice or aren't we going there any more ??? It is obvious that Oceana replaced Ventura with the fly / Med cruises when the size of the ships were limited going in to / out of Venice.

There is a plan for a new approach to the Venice terminal which does follow the current route. Ships will dock at the current industrial port of Marghera, the opposite side of the long bridge to Venice. Due to be open in 2022.

 

I do wonder if the Ventura or Azure will eventually become an adults only ship?

 

Ventura is due a refit in March and Azura is due a refit in April 2020. I think its unlikely that they will want such large adults only ships.

 

The more interesting one is Aurora who's refit is scheduled for March 2019. This was the likely candidate however the schedules are out for Summer 2019 so unless they rebook any family cruises.

 

What will be very interesting is to see the Winter 2019/2020 schedules which are due out next as they could give an indication. Britannia is due refit in November 2019 which most likely means she is not heading to the Caribbean for that season. Presumably that means Azura and Ventura to the Caribbean.

[Scriv]

What are people's thoughts on the kind of itineraries the new big ships will offer?

[Presto2]

What are people's thoughts on the kind of itineraries the new big ships will offer?

 

Same old same old as they aren't going to do anything different as they will be too big !!!

I really don't think that the new brand of cruisers seem to worry about an itinerary, if they see the ship as the 'resort'. Personally we can't see the point of visiting a new country without seeing the many exciting sites. Horses for courses I suppose and to be honest I don't think it has anything to do with age - more about clientele. P&O's target market seems to be an AI holiday maker who goes on holiday for the resort and not the destination. That is just so not us.

 

We have grown fond of Britannia but there is a point when the ships are just too big and there really is a place for the likes of Oceana for us ......... :(

 

Ironically we are going to a cruise show tomorrow so someone on the P&O stand is going to get an ear bashing and some difficult questions to avoid !!!!

[Presto2]

 

There is a plan for a new approach to the Venice terminal which does follow the current route. Ships will dock at the current industrial port of Marghera, the opposite side of the long bridge to Venice. Due to be open in 2022.

 

 

Am I right in thinking that the ships won't be able to come up the Grand Canal though via St Mark's Square???

 

 

I think I read that the Venetians are not happy about the large ships as it floods the City with too many people all at once.

 

 

 

[Scriv]

With you on that, Presto.... :( We sound the same kind of cruiser.

[Presto2]

With you on that, Presto.... :( We sound the same kind of cruiser.

 

That's 2 or 4 of us I suppose.

 

I have to 'smile' though as I feel that I am already being made to feel like a 'past commodity' by a cruise line when I am only just turned 50. Have only been cruising since 2010 and already feel like we are 'yesterday's market' and not important enough for the cruise line.

 

We are looking at a holiday for our 25th anniversary and at this rate we will most definitely be heading for a land holiday with a hotel that appreciates us and is not just wanting to see us gone !!!

 

Is it me or are P&O missing out on the 'about to retire' generation ????????

 

As for catering for those who do not want to get off the ship - we have to sail in school holidays and on every cruise we have been on the vast majority get off the ship ............

[Denarius]

 

There is a plan for a new approach to the Venice terminal which does follow the current route. Ships will dock at the current industrial port of Marghera, the opposite side of the long bridge to Venice. Due to be open in 2022.

 

 

Am I right in thinking that the ships won't be able to come up the Grand Canal though via St Mark's Square???

 

 

I think I read that the Venetians are not happy about the large ships as it floods the City with too many people all at once.

 

 

As I understand it, the problem in Venice was that the wash from the very large ships was damaging the wooden piles on which the city is built. Hence the imposition of a maximum tonnage. It could well be however that they were also unhappy with the sheer number of people these ships were bringing and the resulting congestion in the streets. When I was in Dubrovnik last summer I was told that there was a similar concern regarding numbers there and pressure to limit the total number of cruise passengers in port on any one day, or the nember of passengers carried by any one ship. It was said that cruise passengers in general spent relativelly little in the city, particularly in the cafes and bars as most of them went back to the ship to eat, yet their presence en masse put off other visitors who would spend more. I suspect that there is more than a grain of truth in that and that other ports may follow Venices example.

[Scriv]

Bergen has also put on limits as to the number of cruise ships/passengers in a day. Quite a few ports will be doing this, I think.

 

I do understand the 'past commodity' feeing, Presto.... maybe they think that by the time they are ready to ditch the smaller ships, we will have all moved on to Saga cruises lol. I must say that as mid- late sixties we can't face the thought of that for many years yet - nor are we tempted towards riverboats or really small ships. Just hoping the mid size ships will stay around a while.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Scriv

[Presto2]

Bergen has also put on limits as to the number of cruise ships/passengers in a day. Quite a few ports will be doing this, I think.

 

I do understand the 'past commodity' feeing, Presto.... maybe they think that by the time they are ready to ditch the smaller ships, we will have all moved on to Saga cruises lol. I must say that as mid- late sixties we can't face the thought of that for many years yet - nor are we tempted towards riverboats or really small ships. Just hoping the mid size ships will stay around a while.

 

I think the powers that be on cruises need to realise that 60 is the new 40 at least and that sometimes those who pay the cheap and cheerful prices with a dumbed down product are not necessarily the future ..........................

 

If it is, then the great tradition that was once P&O will just be an AI 18 - 30s type floating hotel on the water.

 

Sad .... very sad

 

I remember my first cruise on P&O in 2010 when the band played us off from the quay side; I felt like a princess on the formal night strolling on the prom deck; the champagne fountain was magical; the procession of the chefs saw everyone waving a napkin; our first British Sailaway was special; the silver service 6 courses were just incredible and our Captain Willard was just the perfect gentleman.

 

Those were the days ---- and not that long ago

 

I feel quite sad now looking ahead ............